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[ 18 posts ] |
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 20:41 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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So I was just thinking about something.
Technically, what would happen if:
1) A pregnant woman was killed, say stabbed in the stomach, and someone cast Raise Dead on them? 2) The same except someone cast Resurrection on them? 3) We not substitute a casting of True Resurrection?
I would think that everything would be okay with the baby and all, barring the player wanting something to happen for flavor and emotional strife, but I don't know if the lore supports it. The spells pertain to an individual, but does the Weave consider an unborn child to be a single entity in terms of this, and maybe other, spells?
A bit morbid, I know, but still an interesting question I think.
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Khylaria
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Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 20:51 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 May 2007 Location: East Coast, US
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To quote Yoss in another thread asking about healing/resurrection stuff - the last paragraph has a snippet on pregnancy: Yossarin wrote: ...I again reference the notion of the Pattern: an individual's metaphysical signature that represents body, mind, soul, and carries resonance from the kind of magic they use (usually based on their paradigm). In a way you could consider it your magical DNA.
Let's say your Life pattern when you were born looked like this: W
And then later in life you get your right arm chopped off, and it looks like this: N
The Regeneration spell seeks to restore your life Pattern to the way it is supposed to be. So someone casts regeneration and it will restore your Life pattern to: W
Unless, of course, you have accepted in your head the fact that you have no arm anymore (mental), made peace with the phantom feeling of it being gone (spiritual - I often suggest that the whole feeling of a phantom limb people experience is a sign of the Pattern, you feeling what it wants to be but isn't), or possibly intentionally flayed your arm (magical paradigm - Palemaster), and then your natural pattern becomes: N
Regeneration will always restore it to N, rather than W.
Let's say you are BORN without a limb. That means when you're born, your pattern is N. I have always rationalized that people born with physical defects can never have them healed. Clerics can rationalize that this is because that is the way the gods willed them to be. Arcanists can use the Pattern example.
Either way, what this interpretation does is justifies the fact that the individual player can rule whether or not his or her scars and wounds and maimings are affected by healing or regeneration or restoration magics. If the player rules that his character has wholly accepted whatever he or she has lost (or in creepier instances, gained), then the player can legitimately say those spells won't work and really stick it to those assholes who non-chalantly tell you you can go get a fixer-upper with a cleric (I despise it when people do that, and I have seen it a lot in Amia).
And to cut off a question about babies: I envision that a baby forming in a mother's womb does have its own Pattern forming in an overlay. It remains separate from the mother's and this is why you can't cast regenerate on a mother to affect a baby inside of her. And why mothers can die while babies still live in their wombs for a short time. Unfortunately, conservatives would appreciate my interpretation here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jul 17 2012, 20:56 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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Ah-ha, thanks! I knew Yoss had said something, but couldn't find where it was. Of course I didn't see that thread! Thanks for pointing it out, I feel silly having made a whole thread for this now Essentially, though, since you cannot touch the unborn child (yes, there are squicky ways around that), there is no way to cast a touch based spell like the ones listed upon it. Good to know!
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Gunz
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Posted: Wed, Jul 18 2012, 5:35 AM |
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Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2006 Location: The City of Fallen Angels, Ca
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I was about to say the exact opposite of Yoss. But to be fair, this subject is highly controversial in the real world and there, frankly, is no right answer in the real world. In the Amian FR world however, there is a right answer and you have it.
_________________ My Characters: Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth
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Xaviera
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Posted: Wed, Jul 18 2012, 14:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Location: Temple of Love
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Yossarin wrote: I envision that a baby forming in a mother's womb does have its own Pattern forming in an overlay. It remains separate from the mother's and this is why you can't cast regenerate on a mother to affect a baby inside of her. And why mothers can die while babies still live in their wombs for a short time. To me, this clearly means that if you don't raise the mother immediately (i.e. within a minute or less) then the baby will not survive. Thus my PC always counsels pregnant PCs not to go adventuring or get involved in combat or take other stupid risks. I think that if a wound heals, fully or partially, with a scar, then that scar becomes part of the new template. Scars can be removed, but doing so involves essentially debriding or cutting it away (a painful process) and then using regeneration to reinstate the original 'template'. (In the context of Yoss' view, it might, for example, be possible that an individual has accepted his altered template, then later learned that the scar/wound can be fixed/healed, at which point further interventions might work.)
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Halecta
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Posted: Wed, Jul 18 2012, 20:47 PM |
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Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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Resurrection though creates a brand new body, it does not revive the old one, so not sure how pregnancy would be effected by it
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DerkDerkistan
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 3:12 AM |
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Player
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Location: Earth
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It does revive the old one, presuming the body is whole and intact.
_________________ Remember when I knew a boxer, baby
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Khylaria
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 9:18 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 May 2007 Location: East Coast, US
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Raise Dead revives the old body if it's whole and intact.
Resurrection revives/restores the old body, whether whole and intact or not.
True Resurrection creates a new body - an exact copy of the old one - which is why you don't need a piece of the old body in order to make the spell work.
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Amarice-Elaraliel
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 9:36 AM |
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Player
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
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The whole pregnancy topic has always been a very tricky one in various aspects and I think should probably best be avoided if possible. Not to be pregnant on Amia in general, but the "I am pregnant and still go out and fight monsters and people!" part.
Anyhow... I think indeed a main question is, if the embryo is counted already as an individual beeing or not. If not then it just would not be restored with the mothers body anyways.
Then the next question would be, can an embryo already conciously and willingly decide to return which is required for all those spells (if it has to be raised/resurrected sperately from the mother). I somehow would doubt that. I'd even doubt it with an infant. Though that is just my personal opinion of course. While an infant certainly has all feelings and so on, I somehow doubt it would grasp the meaning of death and by that the option and decision to return from the dead as a willing act.
There are two more interesting and tricky questions about the matter. If we say that the two beings are seperate (the embryo and the mother) would shadowjumping cause harm? Considering it was ruled that if a shadowdancer would take anoher beeing along with shadowjumping, who is not a shadowdancer itself, it would cause severe harm/death.
Also... how would pregnancy be affected by shapeshifting? Especially if turning into an entirely other creature like an animal or even an elemental or construct? My personal opinion would be, that it likely would harm or kill the child. I am however curious to hear some other opinions on this matter as I don't think I ever heard an "official" statement on this.
_________________
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NinjaClarinet
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 14:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2010
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If I was a DM, it would be instant miscarriages if I caught you out adventuring, nor could you be certain what you'd pop out if I caught you casting high level magic or shapeshifting as well.
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Nivo
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 14:08 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jan 2009 Location: East of Elsewhere, West of Sometime
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NinjaClarinet wrote: If I was a DM, it would be instant miscarriages if I caught you out adventuring, nor could you be certain what you'd pop out if I caught you casting high level magic or shapeshifting as well.
_________________ Playing: Marcus Valis
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 14:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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NinjaClarinet wrote: If I was a DM, it would be instant miscarriages if I caught you out adventuring, nor could you be certain what you'd pop out if I caught you casting high level magic or shapeshifting as well. Not gonna lie, I liked that, haha. I mean, not that my drow was intentionally leading a pregnant surfacer with her into battle or anything. She totally didn't want anything to happen. Totally. Also, I'm seeing good stuff in this thread. And I do know of the touchy subject this brings up, I just was not sure what the Lore would state. Seems like it can be a case-by-case basis, barring DM intervention. The last thing I want to add, right now, is that I was not even thinking of adventuring. I was actually thinking if someone should just, perhaps out of nowhere or maybe on purpose, stab a pregnant character in the stomach. Crazy effing crap happens, after all
_________________ Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play: Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Jes
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Posted: Thu, Jul 19 2012, 17:42 PM |
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DM
Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Location: Camriiole
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NinjaClarinet wrote: If I was a DM, it would be instant miscarriages if I caught you out adventuring, nor could you be certain what you'd pop out if I caught you casting high level magic or shapeshifting as well. This. I just can't fathom why someone would want to take the leap of RP'ing a pregnancy, only to basically show everyone that you have no respect or care for the life of that unborn child. I mean... There's a reason that even in RL, pregnant soldiers are sent far away from combat the instant that test comes back positive. IC actions/consequences, though!
_________________ Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
See me DM-side as: [DM] Hlal | [DM] The Voice
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CelestialDante
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Posted: Fri, Jul 20 2012, 14:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 15 Apr 2009 Location: United Kingdom
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EDIT:- Its was a DM ruling that my characters baby died. The incident was collateral damage from an implosion spell in the Salandran temple grounds
_________________ Sir Azeriel El'johnson - Tormtar and Triadic Knight
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Jul 20 2012, 18:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Location: Temple of Love
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Jes wrote: I just can't fathom why someone would want to take the leap of RP'ing a pregnancy, only to basically show everyone that you have no respect or care for the life of that unborn child. Because it's difficult for most people to not adventure or get involved in sticky (read, potentially violent) situations for a long time. Mind you, I've never known anyone to have a IG pregnancy last longer than 2 RL months, but that's still quite a while. Jes wrote: IC actions/consequences, though! Totally agree.
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Silent2001
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Posted: Fri, Jul 20 2012, 20:49 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Jun 2007 Location: United Kingdomshire
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Rigela went the whole 9 months of pregnancy with her main, without getting into PVP or hunting. It can be done!
_________________ <3 MarynWe are going to die and that makes us the lucky ones.
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Xaviera
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Posted: Fri, Jul 20 2012, 21:19 PM |
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Player
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Location: Temple of Love
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Should get a DC just for that!
_________________ ~Sharess on AmiaWiki~Priestess, politician, prostitute "[They] were moving in on me like Sharessans on a new broad in the bath house" - Tracer BoltAmiaWiki mod (mostly inactive)
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Rigela
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Posted: Sat, Jul 21 2012, 16:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Sep 2010 Location: Grimy Old England
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I like making myself suffer it seems! Or my characters, who probably deserve it for some convoluted reason or other.
_________________ Signature by Maryn! <3 I am also seen as DM Snuffles.
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