AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I know Abbathor is unpopular amongst most dwarves, but given that he's never actually turned against the Morndinsamman and his followers are under strict orders not to act against their clans, just how accepted is he? Are his followers outcasts to be shunned? Heretics to be purged on discovery? Most of the information I've found about him indicate that he's at least tolerated, if under scrutiny, in most dwarf societies, but then most information about evil deities make them seem more accepted than they actually are.

I know from my research on Berronar Truesilver that she and her clergy oppose Abbathor and his servants on every turn. She's actively working on getting Abbathor kicked out from Morndinsamman. Therefore his clergy might be very careful in communities where Berronar's clerics have significant influence. I don't believe they are in open war (doubt Moradin would allow that since he still hasn't kicked Abbathor out), but certain amount of sabotage and anti-propaganda would certainly be present, probably forcing Abbathor's followers to operate in secret.

I think a follower of Abbathor would be openly shunned by most dwarves since he is the dwarven god of greed and evil thieves. Dwarves would probably see them as those who are up-to-no-good so to speak and want them removed from their clan hold.

From Demi-human Deities on Abbathor:

Quote:

While Abbathor is publicly reviled in dwarven society ("gone to Abbathor" is a dwarven expression for lost treasure), most dwarves have been consumed on more than one occasion with the lust for treasure that he embodies. Rare is the dwarf who does not recognize the streak of avarice infecting the Stout Folk, and thus the Trove Lord's rightful place in the dwarven pantheon. Like an unliked and self-serving member of the clan who nonetheless is not known to have ever betrayed his kinfolk, the Great Master of Greed is venerated as a member of the Morndinsamman by most dwarves, even as they decry his beliefs.

In summary they do see Abbathor as one of their gods which to respect but not one they have to like, since he represents a part of their psyche that they detest and loathe in themselves.

I think any follower of Abbathor would have to stay hidden around good minded dwarves because of what he represents to them. He is an evil deity after all:

Quote:

ABBATHOR
Great Master of Greed, Trove Lord, the Avaricious, Wyrm of Avarice

Intermediate Power of the Gray Waste NE

PORTFOLIO: Greed
ALIASES: None
DOMAIN NAME: Oinos/the Glitterhell
SUPERIOR: Moradin
ALLIES: Task, Vergadain
FOES: Berronar, Brandobaris, Clangeddin Silverbeard, Cyrrollalee, Dumathoin, Moradin, the gnome pantheon, the goblinkin and giant pantheons
SYMBOL: Jeweled dagger
WOR. ALIGN.: LE, NE, CE

Abbathor (AB-bah-thor) the Avaricious is the dwarven god of greed, venerated by most evil dwarves and nearly all evil dwarven thieves. He represents the worst aspect and major weakness of dwarven character. Many dwarves and even nondwarves consumed with treasure lust and greed, or those who seek to steal valuables, make offerings to him

I imagine they would be seen as useful, even necessary members of society who can help other dwarves acquire wealth in ways they normally couldn't. They wouldn't be publically welcome in social circles, but it's not like everyone doesn't know they fulfill a vital role and everybody who's anybody uses their services. I'm thinking stuff like shady investments and moneylending. The medieval Jews of Dwarven society, hypocritically shunned, association with whom is theoretically discouraged but practically commonplace. Not saying they necessarily offer such services in every instance, but it's one possibility. Since Abbathor is part of the pantheon and clearly maintains a somewhat vital following, they must play some viable role in society.

Exactly. The Amia wiki mentions that Moradin has sent spies into Abbathor's temples, but it also mentions that they haven't found anything condemning, which would suggest that dwarven society doesn't actually have any solid reasons for driving them off.

Also, moderately unrelated:

http://nj-pbem.com/data/Gods/dwarvengods/Abbathor.htm wrote:

Abbathor is served by aurumvorae, crysmals, dragons consumed with avarice, earth elemental vermin, earth weirds, ghost dragons, hetfish, incarnates of covetousness, khaasta, rappers, rust monsters, tso,werebadgers, and xavers.

Rappers? Chultan Bards with negative perform levels, I'm guessing.

I can't really see it like that myself. Dwarves are typically on the extreme of the lawful axis and usually vearing to the good side of the spectrum which is a bad combination when imagining that they would commonly associate with evil thieves. Thieft is a heinous crime in dwarven communities. I'm not sure what place followers of abbathor would have openly as I doubt dwarves would associate themselves with those who break their laws and use their services. I imaging they would either be outcasts or those working in the shadows to promote Abbathor's dogma of greed among the stout folk. I think maybe why they would be tolerated to some degree would be that they still follow dwarven cultural norms, to honour ones kin. They may not steal from their fellow dwarf (if of the lawful persuasion) but just encourage greedy behaviours, which are not a crime in themselves as long as they don't harm others. Perhaps like a secret follower of abbathor who is an advisor to a dwarven king who whispers into his ear to hoard all the gold they mine instead of using it to aid the poverty stricken human settlement nearby.

Abbathor and PR

Who is online