Death Wyrm, Guardian of the lost, Night Dragon, Reaver

Null Forgotten Realms

Null Wikipedia

Chronepsis (L): God of fate, death, judgment,[20] also worshipped in combination with Falazure as the dual entity Null[1][19]
Boyd, Eric L. and Erik Mona (2002). Faiths and Pantheons. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-2759-3.
Donovan, Dale (1998). Cult of the Dragon. TSR. ISBN 0-7869-0709-6.
Faluzure (I): God of decay, undeath, exhaustion,[20] also worshipped in combination with Chronepsis as the dual entity Null[1][19]
Boyd, Eric L. and Erik Mona (2002). Faiths and Pantheons. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-2759-3.
Donovan, Dale (1998). Cult of the Dragon. TSR. ISBN 0-7869-0709-6.

The Dragon Aerie Realms Helps

Dragon Eyrie is divided into four broad bands - the dark roots, the lower reaches, the middle crags, and the peak. With the exception of the peak, which is entirely Null's divine realm, no divine realm occupies the entire expanse of an altitude band. Most of the mountain is open territory claimed by no deity, where the petitioners of the plane seek their solitude.

Hial: The lower reaches of Dragon Eyrie's great slope include the divine realm of Hlal, the trickster and messenger deity of the dragons. Brass and copper dragon petitioners tend to congregate near this realm. These lower slopes are warm and dry, at least near Hlal's domain, so they attract blue dragon petitioners as well, though the blues try to stay far away from the brasses and coppers. Other, wetter areas of the lower reaches are favored by green and black petitioners.

Null: The summit of Dragon Eyrie is the domain of Null, the draconic god of death. White and silver dragon petitioners are attracted to the cold of his realm, and in a way these two kinds of dragons represent the two very different views of this mysterious deity. The crude and bestial white dragons admire Null's role as a taker of life and revere him as a force of violence and power. The silvers, on the other hand, worship him as the guardian of dead spirits - the one who brings draconic souls to their rest in the Dragon Eyrie and, ideally, leads them toward perfection once they have arrived.

Task: Task's realm lies in the middle reaches of Dragon Eyrie, in a region known as the Furnace because of its volcanic activity. Task dwells in a rocky cave filled with a vast treasure hoard. Red, gold, and bronze dragon petitioners live in this area, attracted to its hot springs and flowing lava.

Tiamat: Tiamat's realm, known as the Cave of Greed, lies deep underground, at the dark bottom of Dragon Eyrie. Many chromatic dragon petitioners choose to make their lairs near hers (but not too near), and deep dragon and shadow dragon petitioners tend to favor this subterranean region as well.

Forgotten Realms Cormyr

Draconomicon 2E Entry
Null, the draconic god of death and the dead, is worshiped in two seemingly contradictory aspects. As Reaver, god of death, he is Lawful Evil and is worshiped by many evil dragons. In this aspect, Null enjoys the taking of life, and he blesses others who serve him in this capacity. Null works according to a plan and a schedule, however, which has been set before him by Fate, and so he is not his own master. As Guardian of the Lost, Null is the Lawful Neutral guardian of the dead. As such, he shepherds the animae (souls) of dragons to their respective planes when they die, and he ensures they are no longer troubled by enemies they may have had while alive. In this aspect, Null is worshiped by dragons of all alignments; individuals who've just lost someone close to them will sometimes make offerings to Null to speed the dearly departed's animae to its final resting place.

Null appears as a region of impenetrable blackness in the shape of a huge dragon. He is surrounded by an aura of numbing cold, and it is said that to touch Null is instant death.

Notes: Null is listed as two seperate deities in the Draconomicon 3E, Faluzure and Chronepsis. This is because he is a dual aspected deity in the Great Tree Cosmology, and exists as two deities in the Great Wheel Cosmology.We know that Null exists as a Deity in Official 3E Realmslore because he is mentioned in the Monster Deities Appendix of Faiths and Pantheons (page 221) and the Dragon Eyrie section of Players Guide to Faerun (page 150).



Sources: The Cult of the Dragon, Draconomicon 2E, Greg Hall (Null Symbol #2), Faiths and Pantheons, Players Guide to Faerun

The Question!

Who the eff is Null?
Is he Chronepsis and Falazure combined, Like the Heresy of the sun and the moon (Shar and selune)
Is he 4:e or 2:e or what?

Chronepsis And Faluzure on Amia

Chronepsis. He is a True Neutral deity with the domains of: Balance, Death, Dragon, Fate, Knowledge and Time.
Faluzure. He is a Neutral Evil Deity with the domains of: Death, Dragon, Evil, Darkness, Magic, Undeath

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Null is the 2E god of death and undeath. In the course of 3E's gross dumbing down of deities (s. also Malar, Tempus etc.) and with a focus shift of the publisher almost entirely on the forgotten realms, it was more convenient to split him into two gods.

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Player of: Nothing atm. Busy elsewhere.

Grell: I would like to hire the Kossuth maid service. Do you do waste disposal? I've a list of homes you could visit

Somehow it seems he exists in 2:e then skips 3 and 3.5e and then suddenly re-appears in 4:e

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There is an ambiguity that should be left unanswered in whether Falazure and Chronepsis y in the deity system really exist in FR or if they're just aspects of Null. I wrote about this extensively somewhere here, before. Someone's opinion, I think, was that we have Falazure so we have Falazure and it's too much of a headache to check the lore, but I think it's reasonable to treat them as separate in the deity system while acknowledging the possibility that Null is actually the same deity. Or perhaps he's an older deity.

Certainly Null exists in the Realms and was never deleted. Falazure and Chronepsis are from the core 3e Draconomicon, not from any FR source. The answer that Falazure and Chronepsis are sometimes worshiped as Null is just a syncretist answer given when somebody at WotC realized they fucked up by mentioning the two deities in some FR product (if they ever are mentioned). The standard dragon pantheon introductions in FR books all list Null, AFAIK.

Null should get an idol to clear this up for good, in game.

EDIT: Here is the previous topic. It ended on an unconclusive note, but it's pretty clear that my last post sums up the issue as well as possible.

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I don't think he's split into Falazure and Chronepsis even in 3e FR. Those are just the core (Greyhawk) deities listed in the 3e Draconomicon (which is garbage, IMO). I did not find any deity stuff in Dragons of Faerûn, but Faiths & Pantheons lists Null in the monster deities table on page 220. There simply is not much FR support for Falazure and Chronepsis, the Greyhawk deities, but they are an established part of Amian lore because someone, somewhere, didn't know their shit.

I don't mind, though, as long as Null is not forgotten: the more the merrier, and ambiguity is good for theological debate.

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An idol to Null would be lovely, yes. All for more 2e, the material is simply better.

As far as IC theology goes, I'd maybe point out there is no "right" or "wrong" per se, as long as your divine caster does not stray from a deity's dogma. The details of in character myths, legends and even cosmology are as vague and multifacetted as each and every individual in the game world. No one, on Toril that is, can actually claim to, without a doubt, know.

'course, some do claim to. We call them clerics and paladins. And they probably -should- know best, right?

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GSID: Piranha, Borntokill, Free Beer, Bad Luck Inc.
Player of: Nothing atm. Busy elsewhere.

Grell: I would like to hire the Kossuth maid service. Do you do waste disposal? I've a list of homes you could visit

Amen.

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I would probably be on board with Null and a idol to him only if there was some cult that tried to revitalize his 'existence', as it sort of goes in the same boat as gods like Leira, Myrkul, and Mystryl, in my eyes (broken or humiliated gods). Only because Falazure and Chronopsis are sort of IG elements already in the Amia world; have been activated by players and/or DMs, and even though they only obtain minuscule, if not occult-level of observance, that brick has been laid by our local history. Null shouldn't be ignored, but I would say the players interested need to vitalize his place here first. I sort of believe that though for any of the idols that may have been added in without much context though, I guess, a demand for context.

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MuseReader: Aiseth Nosdivan- Master Enchantress

The "idols" are largely OOC anyway, just tokens that show the deity system recognizes the deity as available in the Amiaverse. That they happen to be placed in the game world is an oversight in the original design. There should never be any IC criteria for addition (though I do agree that just adding every deity in the books before a player needs them is pointless). The reason I think we should add him now, though, is to clarify for future players that he, also, exists in our setting and we have not house-ruled him out. Which clearly is a common belief.

It's just that there seems to be some misconceptions about Null. He is not "obscure" or fallen from grace like Leira or Myrkul or whatever. There is, in fact, no IC reason for his obscurity among Amian players. He is unproblematically featured in every instance of the dragon pantheon in FR books. The confusion is purely due to people reading the 3e Draconomicon and taking it as canon for FR, which it has never been. Do people actually not read the available FR material when they make new characters, or something? The 2e FR Draconomicon should be the first book any Dragon Disciple player turns. I am not trying to sound belligerent, I just honestly don't quite understand the origins of this obscurity.

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Ok, all good points. But to be fair, I don't think the majority of the playerbase is actually well-read in the canon lore books, from what I have noticed overtime. So there only has to be some relevant reminders for those whom are learning as they go. The obscurity is caused then, likely a result of those who learned via Amia, and not DnD.

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MuseReader: Aiseth Nosdivan- Master Enchantress

I didn't get the chance to reply to this in the IA thread, but as the topic is still relevant, I will answer this here:

Those two books are the most common to find. Amia incorporates them both and has done so since before I began DMing. The gods listed in them are not at all an issue with a few very minor tweaks. As this is a discussion on Null, let's focus on that.

In Amian lore, Null has -never- appeared in pure avatar form to anyone. That doesn't mean Null isn't out there or answering prayers to both Chronopsis -&- Falazure, it just means Null enjoys splitting his portfolio amongst two different avatars depending on the audience. From what information I have, both avatars have appeared in Amia's past. Nothing needs to be 'OOC' about those IC occurrences. Elsewhere on Toril, he very well may have thought a glimpse of himself as he truly is was best and nothing is wrong with that, but that didn't happen on Amia.

Let's face it. Duality is not a new concept in the FRCS. Lathander/Amaunator, Yondalla/Dallah Thaun... Those are legitimate dualities. There are also heresies like the Dark Moon which arise because despite how present the gods are in the setting, mortals can't always wrap their heads around them or know for certain that what is presented to them is 100% true.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

That sounds perfectly good. I really think every dragon-related PC player should read Cult of the Dragon and the FR Draconomicon, though. They are just as readily available in electronic form. (Here if you want to pay, elsewhere if not.)

I don't really care if Falazure and Chronepsis are ultimately found to be entirely separate from Null. Maybe there are three gods, maybe there are two gods and one imaginary amalgamation, or maybe there's just one god. All the same to me OOC. What matters is the confirmation that in our Realms, there is indeed a historical belief in a figure called "Null" who some theorize may in fact be Falazure and Chronepsis but who, in any case, does seem to answer the prayers of his small church. It is not like belief in gods is based on avatars appearing, anyway.

I wanted to squeeze out of you whether Null is or isn't a deity (whatever that means) in our setting. That is all. Because for a while and based on some statements, it seemed that he was not part of our mythos. In the Cult of the Dragon take on the gods (by no means the definitive one, but pretty good) it is said that in the planes Null is known as Falazure and Chronepsis separately, whereas in the Realms he's believed to be one person. I suppose that in the Amian Realms, both beliefs are alive and well? I am perfectly happy with your answer and just wish someone would have given it sooner.

I don't know if I should comment on the "you need to request this" bit here, but if you've now agreed that Null does indeed exist on some level in our setting, I must point out that there's no rule saying you need to request to play a cleric of his. We do not have to request worshiping any other canon deity either, and the DM-recommended practice has always been to pick a god with the appropriate alignment and domains to represent your real patron and wait for a deity system entry. If I want to worship one of the Lords of the Nine not in the module, I'll pick some LE deity with the same domains. If I want to play a divine caster from Zakhara or Kara-Tur, I just emulate it as best I can, no request required. If that is no longer the case, you have changed the rules and should announce it. (Dead deities and heresies are a special case that does not apply here, and are unclear anyway.)

Null is LN with Death, Fate, Knowledge, Law and Scalykind. Jergal with Death, Fate and Law, or Savras, Hoar and Kelemvor with Fate and Fate, are the only deities in our system that fit the bill.

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Fair enough. To answer your question, in Amian FR, Null exists. He simply isn't known to many as his true self but rather the more frequently observed avatars of Chronepsis and Falazure.

He answers prayers to both avatars as they are both aspects of himself, created to better reach intended audiences for his messages, granted they tend to be few and far between.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,