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EarthDreamer
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 08 2014, 3:29 AM 

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So I'm trying to understand where an animal companion or familiar comes from, how it's summoned.
How does this relationship start? Where is the creature summoned from? If it dies in battle and you re-summon it, how do you explain that?
What happens if/when you change summons. Is that a big deal?
Just everything relating to animal companions and familiars is kinda fuzzy for me.

I have a druid char and gonna roll a wizard soon, and I'd like to have a better understanding of how this works. Thanks.


 
      
LetumLux
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 08 2014, 3:39 AM 

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As far as I know, there is no single official answer for this, and the existence of multiple official answers is up for debate.

I believe that it's "reasonable discretion of the player" for all accounts, although providing some foundation to build upon in regards to this kind of lore is one of the things that's on my list.

For example, when changing summons/companions, it might be that the PC and companion reached a point in their lives where it was time to amicably part ways. Maybe the companion is old, or in season, or whatever! Maybe the PC and companion bonded initially because one or the other was in great need of the other, and now that they've benefitted each other up to a stable point, they agree to part ways. Maybe the companion dies in some permanent manner!

Unless it's very outlandish or exceptional, these sort of things have generally been left up to the player to decide. Information on Familiar bonding is generally sparse, but I'll see if I can find anything from any obscure official sources.


 
      
Yossarin
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 08 2014, 5:07 AM 



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There is a similar discussion on this topic somewhere in this very forum I think. Maybe a year or more back. I have always come to the same conclusion as Letum and run my tabletops that way.

I still look forward to someday playing the character who gives birth to her own animal companion/familiar. Somehow. Pathfinder druidess of Lamashtu maybe...


 
      
Magiros
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 08 2014, 15:54 PM 

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Usually when a mage wants to have a familiar, they go through a binding ritual to call it worth and see if they accept to the term. Or force the creature to become a familiar. Improved Familiar Feat is required to have potent familiars and familiar feat only gives animals in the D&D Model. If the familiar dies, the caster is required to spend year without a familiar before they can make a new contract. Plus they lose one point of constitution and take damage if familiar dies. In D&D the familiar is always around with you, they are not summoned to be there like in NWN.

Changing a familiar is a big deal because you have bonded with your former familiar in great deal and if you break that contract it takes year to make another contract. The familiar progression gives certain bonuses to the creature and in return the mage gains something as well.

No mage choose a familiar on weak basis, for example my wizard does not have a familiar yet because it is actually a big pact made and she wants to ensure finding a fitting familiar.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 08 2014, 17:49 PM 

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EarthDreamer wrote:
So I'm trying to understand where an animal companion or familiar comes from, how it's summoned. How does this relationship start? Where is the creature summoned from?

I won't go into Familiars, since all of my tabletop wizards have been highly controversial, lol.
For where Animal Companions come from though, I would say you are only limited by your own imagination. Some find the animal, or gave aid to it, sometimes the animal chooses the character (Crow's case), others may have raised it from infancy, be creative.

As for the summoning, in my case I assume that the animal is lurking around somewhere and heeds the call, or whistle, of the character. I try not to summon (or take) it in places where it would not normally be. But it did tolerate the ship ride, or portal, to wherever place my character happens to travel to.

Quote:
If it dies in battle and you re-summon it, how do you explain that?

Now this is my own personal take on this, others may have differing opinions. In combat, if the animal is unsummoned due to lack of HP, I say that it has slunk off to lick its wounds. Perhaps one day it will be a permanent death, but for now, its basic instinct is for survival. If my character 'dies' in combat and the animal is auto unsummoned, and they are alone with no one to Raise, I can justify by saying the animal has drug the character away from the danger, and perhaps gotten or found help. There's several options here.


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What happens if/when you change summons. Is that a big deal?

Animal Companions can be released from service, or die, that would be up to you, or dependent on a certain event. Another can be obtained, but, again in my opinion, I would think a time of mourning is in order, given the closeness of the pair.

Quote:
Just everything relating to animal companions and familiars is kinda fuzzy for me.
I have a druid char and gonna roll a wizard soon, and I'd like to have a better understanding of how this works. Thanks.

I hope this helps some, good luck and have fun!

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Luckbringer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 09 2014, 11:13 AM 

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I looked up druid/ranger animal companions recently in PHB and it explains that they are as their name implies companions. There is no magical or supernatural bond between animal companions and druid or rangers, they are basically just good friends. An animal companion chooses itself to follow the druid or ranger about, adventure, fight with them etc. A reltionship has to be formed between the animal and the druid or ranger over time, how any other relationship would. They will also leave the druid or ranger if they are mistreated in anyway or abused, just like any friend would. As such in PnP they can't be summoned or unsummoned, they are just there and exist independently from their druid. In PnP issurs would arise if the druid needed to enter a city or place where say a free ranging grizzly bear companion would not be welcome. The bear could be left outside the city to join back with the druid later. Or it might just decide it doesn't want to wait and wonder off. Depending on how strong their relationship was.

Due to NWN mechanics overiding D&D lore, they stuck in this summons feature to make game play work with magical healing and immortally for the animal which has no lore explaination. The closet thing in D&D lore is the way the drow rangDrizztizzt Do'Urden's animal companion works which is pretty much tge same as NWNs companions do. He summons his panther companion from the astral plane using a magical figurine. If it is injured or killed on the material plane it will just go back to the astral plane and heal for next time it is summoned. I'm not saying this is how it works on Amia but that's the lore prescient for it.

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 09 2014, 15:01 PM 

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About the re-summoning. It is simple that when a summon is brought to point of 'death', instead of actual death they are merely returned to the place where they were summoned from originally. Therefore wizards don't take lightly on summoning or calling outsider and defenses and whatnot are prepared. It is because the summoned entity can seek the summoner out later. For example: Summoning a dragon would not be every day thing, because it includes either forcing the creature to fight for you or paying it to fight. In some cases they can choose to help the summoner freely. However, if forced to fight and take a beating, it then is returned home to recover and actually can come after you if it did not like you summoning it.

Changing summons is not a big deal, because in D&D the spells actually have variety of options to choose from and the summon creature spell is not a spell that has 'evil' or 'good' descriptors that would make character fall either way. Changing familiar, well wrote on that above on previous post.

EDIT: And about re-summoning. Even when you call similar creature doesn't mean it is exactly the same elemental you had previous time. It is simply of same race and power, but not necessarily exact same summon.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 09 2014, 17:50 PM 

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Luckbringer wrote:
Due to NWN mechanics overiding D&D lore, they stuck in this summons feature to make game play work with magical healing and immortally for the animal which has no lore explaination. The closet thing in D&D lore is the way the drow rangDrizztizzt Do'Urden's animal companion works which is pretty much tge same as NWNs companions do. He summons his panther companion from the astral plane using a magical figurine. If it is injured or killed on the material plane it will just go back to the astral plane and heal for next time it is summoned. I'm not saying this is how it works on Amia but that's the lore prescient for it.

As a side note, Drizzt's panther is not an Animal Companion, it's a summoned creature from one of several available (PnP) figurines of wondrous power, which anyone can use. The figurines are not class specific for druid / ranger.

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Luckbringer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 09 2014, 18:37 PM 

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I'd consider it his animal companion rather than simply a summon. It is actually not a normal Figurine of Wonderous Power but calls forth the conscious spirit of a particular panther rather then transforming the figurine into a temporary magic panther. There's some backstory to it somewhere explaining the difference. Therefore, Drizzt has been able to develop a bond with Guenhwyvar and considers her a friend. They have all this relationship stuff in the books which more or less suggests she is his ranger animal companion. Technically, I cannot recall anything in the rules saying an animal companion couldn't be a summoned animal. After all a summoned animal is still an animal.

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EarthDreamer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 09 2014, 19:29 PM 

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Thanks for the replies, they've been helpful.
I do use the trope of my druid's animal companion 'lurking about out of sight' until summoned, usually with a whistle or call sign, rather than magically summoned from some distance place or plane. Good to know we're free to explain it however works best.
And I like the explanation of going off to lick her wounds at 0 HP, rather than dying.

I've been using the panther, as it fits the RP real well, but dang, it's got no AC, I go thru so many heal kits it's not funny. That's why I was wondering about switching summons, just to try others out and see how they compare. I don't know of another way to do it. Maybe the panther will get tougher at higher levels and it'll work out. So explanations of forming a relationship that evolves over time make sense. Friends part ways to come back together again at later time.

And good to know about the familiar binding ritual for mages. I know it's a magical bond, with a magical animal, so it's gotta be a whole other kinda story.


 
      
Kudark
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 10 2014, 1:12 AM 

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Luckbringer wrote:
I'd consider it his animal companion rather than simply a summon. It is actually not a normal Figurine of Wonderous Power but calls forth the conscious spirit of a particular panther rather then transforming the figurine into a temporary magic panther. There's some backstory to it somewhere explaining the difference. Therefore, Drizzt has been able to develop a bond with Guenhwyvar and considers her a friend. They have all this relationship stuff in the books which more or less suggests she is his ranger animal companion. Technically, I cannot recall anything in the rules saying an animal companion couldn't be a summoned animal. After all a summoned animal is still an animal.

I would disagree, based on the fact that the panther did the bidding of the previous owner of the figurine, even though she didn't want to. But then, Salvatore is known for breaking lore to an almost ridiculous degree, but still writes good stuff.

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EarthDreamer
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 10 2014, 9:00 AM 

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The thing is, only Druid's and Rangers get Animal Companions. So it seems like this animal is more than just a pet. I mean a lot of people find a wild animal and develop a bond, but those aren't Animal Companions.

Isn't there some divine component, a gift from the druid/ranger's deity to help them carryout their mission? And doesn't that imply the animal is somehow special. How is an Animal Companion wolf different from any other wolf? Smarter, stronger, divinely "bound" to its druid?

It just doesn't seem adequate to make up a story saying for example my druid found an injured wolf, rescued it, healed it, became friends and so the wolf is now the druid's Animal Companion. I mean, anyone could do that, you don't have to be a druid to rescue a wolf and have it be your friend. There's something more going on here. It seems like the animal is divinely compelled to play its role.


 
      
Kudark
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 10 2014, 9:44 AM 

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I have a similar belief on the matter. There's no doubt my ranger is closer now to his companion, given years of RP, but I think a bond develops. Druids and rangers can speak to animals, which allows them to know their companions more personally too.

As far as deity goes, it could go that route, or Animal Totem Spirit, or something else, but that's you being creative, run with it.

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