It seems every single time I venture Myrrh into a city, he is accused of being a devil. Ever since I made him years ago.

Why is that?

If a person immersed themselves into this world, would they feel that way? Are satyrs not subjects of stories, revered as rare treasures, blah blah blah? Why is the lore on them so absent? Isn't it bad luck to say, refuse a gift from a satyr? And, shouldn't that bad luck be actualized? Hah!

And finally, do satyrs resemble devils in DnD lore some place?

What do you all think? I'd like opinions but DMs- tell me what's what.

I don't know of any devils specifically that resemble satyrs, save perhaps harvester devils, but their horns are different and they look more sinister. Satyrs, I'd think, would probably be commonly depicted in art, especially in places like festhalls (due to their connection to revelry and... other pursuits), so it'd be reasonable to assume most people would know what one looks like. As far as why he's mistaken, people might just be thinking horns + hooves = fiend.

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Could also be that the skin of a satyr is used in the abyss so people make an assumption.

Can we change those skins? It was suggested there are new devil skins.

Well, here's a picture of a satyr -



And here is the common perception of Satan -



If you scroll down, both even have hooves. The only thing missing from a satyr is the trident. This is because the image used to associate Satan has been borrowed loosely from various pagan deities for centuries, up to and including the name, though I can't say accurately which came first or even if it's just a coincidence. The hardest hit was Pan, one of the greek gods of hedonism and debauchery, who was - you guessed it - a satyr. The original satyr, in fact. The trident is from Neptune and the red skin from earlier variations of Set, I believe, so it's not just that Greek pantheon that was blindsided by this.

Long story short, players are misrepresenting you as a devil because your race happens to have virtually the same model as the devil for a good portion of Earth's monotheistic population. It's not even really their fault, as this has been a popular image for a very long time, so much so that it was virtually burned into our zeitgeist. It doesn't help that horns and/or hooves are exceedingly popular among fiends (thanks, again, to Satanic imagery), even those on Amia.

That's what I can think of as the root cause, at any rate. As for solving the problem, well...you could try telling people that satyr were around first, which is certainly true in a terran-mythology sense, but I'll leave actual suggestions to those with more experience in such matters than I.

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Thanks for that. We need to separate real life perceptions and IC ones. Comes down to immersion.

Devilishly handsome, maybe.

Satyrs are fey, and fey are bad! Don't mess with fey!

But yes, they aren't Devils, but I imagine people know lots of tales bad and good about fey which Satyr could get wrapped up into as well.

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There are some lore-rich folk that play that interact with Myrrh, shall we say- correctly. He is both revered and feared, expecting him to be completely unpredictable so it's fun to keep people on their toes.

People would hear tales about a satyr growing up, I'd imagine. My face is just getting tired from slapping my hand over it at being called a devil every time.

Not every person in the realms is a lore freak.

They seen horns and hooves. Many fiends have horns and hooves. Tieflings are far more common on Amia in the cities than fey. Hence they assume what they know.

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This is why Aiseth treated Myrrh like crap. To get him to leave.

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Furthermore, I'd argue that it's pretty logical and reasonable for a character that's never seen or heard of a Satyr to see one and go "look, it's a demon-goat thing!" I know I would if I ever saw one. >.>

Yup! Very true!

Aiseth's interaction was awesome.

I'd say that's because people have seen satyr model demons in the Abyss, and are now mistaking you for a devil (not many people know the difference IC).

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Also keep in mind that Orcus is something in Faerun, as well. And that is an accurate portrayal of his general appearance. Goat head, goat legs, large demonic wings on his back, etc. So it's definitely not farfetched for folks to think of a satyr as being a demon or devil, in that regard.

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The goat horns are commonly attributed to those of fiendlish lineage, as we see with a lot of tieflings. Those toe-walking type legs (no idea what the term for them is) are incredibly common among fiends. I think at least half, by guess-timate. While few are hoofed, the appearence remains beastial or fiendish in likeness. Add to it, creatures like Minotaurs and other brutual beasts also have them. I think the stigmization makes a lot of sense for the uneducated of amia, especially as Satyrs are incredibly rare in the region and their traits are not very common fae traits.

I think you just need to drizzle it out.

digitigrade

/nerd

Sam would think it was a devil. Or something evil and annoying. Sorry! But, as for the lore behind it, I think it's not a lore misconception and just an immersion/Amian culture of tiefling and baddies thing. Also, Ninja, thank you. I definitely just googled that.

My opinion, as you asked for opinions, is that it's pretty arrogant for you to make a thread to denounce how other player's characters have reacted to yours as out of character.

If the offending party was an elf, maybe you have a case, but I expect most of the characters you encountered who reacted that way were human and as we all know, humans are an ignorant, xenophobic lot.

I do net feel he criticized or accused someone in particular strongly. He asked a question why things where perceived in a certain manner.

Now that I have commented on that please remember to keep this civil and avoid using mean adjectives towards other users.

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There are other cues which can't be represented readily without the addition of scent that'd discern the difference , actually. Rather READY ones at that.

Mainly the smell of Brimstone (it's a common cue but far from the only one). Now, people who are uneducated I could see and at a distance as well. But, close enough to the Satyr and the lack of Brimstone might be a clue.

Aside from the few people who are familiar with fey creatures, pretty much the only characters on Amia who ever interact with satyrs are the ones with the Big Game Hunter job. Even if players know the difference, most characters don't.

That said, from the little I've seen of Myrrh he seems like a fun character, so I'm hoping to see him around more often.

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His title suggests that he doesn't believe it's right that people do. In its typical usage in the English language "since when ____" is usually posed as a rhetorical, sarcastic question used to remark that you feel a particular attitude is wrong. He then goes on to concur with a player that says players are misrepresenting his character on an out-of-character basis and he then reiterates that the perception of his character is one that is based on ideas from the real world that cannot be reconciled in-character presumptions.

It is not my intention to use "mean adjectives" towards the original poster, or to provoke him, but as I said making a thread that criticizes how other players have their characters react and behave towards your character because you feel that you have a better idea of how their characters should perceive things is arrogant. The offense is more egregious than it would otherwise be considering that this is posted in a lore forum when it is solely a discussion of other players' behavior. I use the lore forum to learn the specifics of the Amian canon or find out where I can obtain different source material for Forgotten Realms, not to read about how a particular player is so deeply offended by other player's character's misconceptions (as non-omniscient mortals are wont to make) that he must argue that the mistake is invalid and immersion breaking.

As Gers said, the falxugon (harvester devil) as described in Fiendish Codex II (which I've come to understand is part of the Amian canon) utilizes a great deal of goat imagery, just as satyrs do. Furthermore, both are especially charming, smooth-talking creatures which tend to leave the humans they deal with a little less well off (soulless in the case of a falxugon, pregnant with a bastard child in the case of a satyr) after they've finished wooing them. Finally, given that falxugons are not especially rare on the material plane given their task of harvesting souls, it is reasonable to assume that a human population has had more exposure to and more encounters with falxugons than satyrs, thus lending to greater familiarity with the devil than the fey it bears resemblance to. For this resemblance and for the prejudice inherent to humans that Amarice described, the argument that the in-character mistake is a product of player perceptions and is immersion breaking is untenable.

When Reddok first saw Myrrh he thought.. what the hell is that thing? Not sure how pervasive the Satyr's story is in the dwarven race really... but Devil (hairy and in a loincloth), Satyr (hairy and in a loincloth), or a hairy hippopotamus... in a loin cloth.... standing with his hairy loincloth covered junk in his face... he's gonna say something about getting said junk out of his face.

Red didn't react real wonderfully, cause well, Reddok doesn't enjoy hairy junk in his face. IC I don't think I said anything about being a devil.... though OOCly I guessed that is why he gets such a hard time, that skin looks very devilish!

Maybe you should wave around the pan flutes or something and do a merry goat jig.

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fairdady..

That coming from a bearded dorf made me snort hot chocolate through my nose. Thanks.

Back on topic. I think the concern has been adressed with the statement that something that has hooves and horns can be easily mistaken for something sinister ic. It's up to you to prove them wrong!

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It's also likely a cultural tool. When groups of people encounter a strange and alien creature, it's often safer to view it with incredible suspicion, and sometimes animosity. Players tend to have more experiences with devils and evil outsiders than Fey, I've found. NPC's, on the otherhand, would likely have far more folklore tales dealing with the fair folk-- and only few terror tales of devils.

While there are only a handful of devils that have goat legs (And they're far from Satyr-like in total appearance), it's a very definitive Satanic reference. I'd say from players, it probably has less to do with actual forgotten realms lore (Maybe the horns from tieflings), but has more to do with real-world perceptions of the devil.

Not to say that they're wrong to use that, either. I think any character would be justified in perceiving most fey as something monstrous, or even fiendish.

As I see it, a character can responde to a satyr (or any fey, for that matter) in two ways, depending on whether or not they can identify the creature for what it is:
1. If they can't tell the difference between a fey and a fiend, they're likely going to be cautious, to wary to outright hostile for understandable reasons.
2. If they do know the difference between a fey and a fiend, they're likely going to be cautious, to wary to outright hostile for underrstandable reasons. Because fey are just as dangerous as fiends, and often far more unpredictable. While not all fey are truly malevolent, even the Seelie fey tend to deal with mortals in a fairly experimental way - blessing or cursing them just to see how the mortal will react. Fey are very, very scary in their own way.

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O.o... Anyway.

I wasn't making any criticism, its just a semi-catchy title. Let's not make accusations on how arrogant someone is; I don't respond to that kind of bullshit.

Thanks for the replies! Loving the discussion. I suppose Myrrh will keep reacting the same way as he does.

Red, his junk isn't hairy.. (Its /furry/)

O.o... Anyway.

I wasn't making any criticism, its just a semi-catchy title. Let's not make accusations on how arrogant someone is; I don't respond to that kind of bullshit.

Thanks for the replies! Loving the discussion. I suppose Myrrh will keep reacting the same way as he does.

Red, his junk isn't hairy.. (Its /furry/)