AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - The Official Teach a Man to Fish topic (Build topic):

What race is it, damnit!

Oh, he's a silly assimar. 29 bard seems to be what I'm banking on, or possibly cutting in one level of fighter at the start for feat saving.

Dont do it at the start. Take bard first level in order to gain more skills.

28 bard 1 fighter isn't as optimal as
26 bard 2 fighter 1 ranger, but it is your build and sometimes the extra 3 levels of bard might be worth it, but not in my book.

Pige is correct. 26 2 1 means you can have the loveliness of a spotter bard who is the worst enemy of the clank and flank HiPser.

Not to mention the 26 2 1 gets 3 more feats than the 29 bard....

Thats my selling point!

Two more feats you silly bird!

Bard 29 is a bonus feat.

Punishpigetime.

But the ranger and fighter bonus feat options are so much yummier.

I'm thinking about Autoquicken 3. Looking at Cleric (not Travel domain) and I'm tempted. I can fit all the feats in, at the cost of epic spells. It seems awesome, but I'm not sure as I have no experience with the Cleric class. A worthwhile investment, or too high a price to pay?

-Cloak-and-Dagger- wrote:

I'm thinking about Autoquicken 3. Looking at Cleric (not Travel domain) and I'm tempted. I can fit all the feats in, at the cost of epic spells. It seems awesome, but I'm not sure as I have no experience with the Cleric class. A worthwhile investment, or too high a price to pay?

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/269/undeathdomainagain.png
Check this build out. It's my Savras Cleric i made from Damara. He's got Auto-Quicken and it's working fantastic - Fate and Spell Domain.

Here's my two ideas. 2nd one looks a bit like that.

This is the one I was thinking of, with no epic spells:
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/7418 ... r5mnk1.jpg

Alternative, with only 3 attacks, but room for an epic spell:
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3135/clr28rgr1mnk1.jpg

What do you think?

I think the latter is neat, Because you will definitely need a decent summon of a Kind.

Otherwise i don't understand why you stuff in ranger levels in the first version?

Well, thanks for the ridiculous amount of help. 26bard/2fighter/1ranger seems to work out fine.

Pre-epic Feats: Curse Song, Weapon Focus, Extend Spell, Blind Fight, Maximize Spell, Improved Critical, KD, Imp KD

Epic Feats: Armor Skin, Epic Fortitude, Lasting Inspiration, ESF: Perform, ESF: Discipline, EWF, ESF: Spot

Once again, thanks for the mountain of suggestions. Didn't think you could monkey with bard that much.

Svensk, what's with the GSF: Divination in your build? I mean.. what does it do?:D There's no spells that it improves afaik...

Wouldn't it be better to take ESF: Evocation instead?

He wants to RP a Diviner? I think thats pretty durned obvious.

Looking to make a new shifter. Heading for a Druid 5/Rogue 6/ Shifter 19.

I have most of the feats and levels worked out but eh.. not too sure on the starting stats.

Pre-epic- 5druid/5rog/10shifter---- Epic-9shifter/1rog

I'm heading for all the epic shapes save for Dragon

So, high starting wisdomw ith increasing wisdom each chance. What would I put the other stats as?

Lots of intelligence! For skillpoints, expertise, and improved knockdown!

Aeqvinox wrote:

Svensk, what's with the GSF: Divination in your build? I mean.. what does it do?:D There's no spells that it improves afaik...

Wouldn't it be better to take ESF: Evocation instead?

Feeblemind is the only spell that gets a DC boost and its a pretty neat spell ICly and can pretty much screw over any Wizard that get's hit with a one that's Maximized. And yes Evocation is better, but Divination is cooler

Arcadence wrote:

Well, thanks for the ridiculous amount of help. 26bard/2fighter/1ranger seems to work out fine.

Pre-epic Feats: Curse Song, Weapon Focus, Extend Spell, Blind Fight, Maximize Spell, Improved Critical, KD, Imp KD

Epic Feats: Armor Skin, Epic Fortitude, Lasting Inspiration, ESF: Perform, ESF: Discipline, EWF, ESF: Spot

Once again, thanks for the mountain of suggestions. Didn't think you could monkey with bard that much.

Go 23 bard/5 knight champion/1 ranger instead

23 Bard 1 Ranger 5 Master Scout

23 Bard 4 Fighter 2 CoT

25 Bard 2 Fighter 2 CoT.

THE LIST IS ENDLESS!

Quote:

THE LIST IS ENDLESS!

Stop eeeeeeeeeet!

Quote:

Go 23 bard/5 knight champion/1 ranger instead

Skill point stretch is worse than the Hulk's pants along with feat starvation, but still somewhat doable. It's basically impossible with 5 MS, unless you plan to not hide/move silently.

Wasn't 26 when someone can't simply zap you with a Mord scroll anyway?

Nope, you'd need 35 or 36(seems some debate) caster levels for that, so on Amia's 30 cap, each caster level just means another 5% worth of hanging onto buffs, which is still rather pleasant.

Bini wrote:

Lots of intelligence! For skillpoints, expertise, and improved knockdown!

Lol yea, the one mistake when I made my other shifter was that his INT was only like at 12 I think..

STR- 12
DEX- 12
CON- 14
INT- 14
WIS- 18
CHA- 8

Would those work maybe?

STR- 12
DEX- 12
CON- 14
INT- 14
WIS- 18
CHA- 8

STR- 12
DEX- 8
CON- 16
INT- 16
WIS- 18
CHA- 8

(Even 18WIS / 18 INT can work)

Ability points only carry over if they are higher than the forms. But that really never happens.
Take the slaadi for instance, it has 40 DEX.
Or the Drow form which has 32 STR, natural.

Just focus in Skillpoints and WIS

Yar, I know how the shifter works

Thanks Svensk.

Did the level layout seem good? With the Pre-epic and Epic?

Errr... Svensk, I may have had a blonde moment, but when you meant those stats, you meant those would be the final levelled up, natural version right?

Sin4given wrote:

Errr... Svensk, I may have had a blonde moment, but when you meant those stats, you meant those would be the final levelled up, natural version right?

Starting stats

its never wrong to ask for clarification!

You naturally focus in WIS the remaining time.

Those starting stats are way too high. Thats spending....42 points out of 30.

Brainfaaaart...

If you plan on using a melee oriented shape that isn't dragon, outsider or construct, you can look at the shifter spreadsheet and boost a certain stat to override the shapes natural stat. Like getting dev crit with a certain shape (with weapon). Saves you the points in wisdom, although if you favor a spellcasting shape, you should focus on wisdom. I can send you the shifter spreadsheet, Sin ma bookie

If a certain shape has 20 strength, and you go to 25 or 26 for dev, the +12 cap will be based off the base stat of the shape (20 in this example). It also means that getting strength maxed will be a lot easier. Just a heads up, because it surprised me when I tried it.

Lol well, like with Milo, my Druid/HS/Shifter i focused more on being the tank or the unhittable fellow in the group.

I'm thinking I'm wanting to be more versatile then just focus on one shape. I was wondering if it's possible to get ALL the epic shapes, that means Dragon as well, but not gimp myself so much?

I think I'd need to take Ffolk, right?

Sin4given wrote:

Lol well, like with Milo, my Druid/HS/Shifter i focused more on being the tank or the unhittable fellow in the group.

I'm thinking I'm wanting to be more versatile then just focus on one shape. I was wondering if it's possible to get ALL the epic shapes, that means Dragon as well, but not gimp myself so much?

I think I'd need to take Ffolk, right?

Yup and if you need to squeeze in some extra wisdom quick take some CoT levels

Yar, and to be honest since it's possible to do that while being NE, I may do it. I'm wanting an evil druid. Not a feral druid like a Malarite, but an NE, asshole, greedy Shifter who does what he wants and does hwat he wants for himself lol

Sin4given wrote:

Yar, and to be honest since it's possible to do that while being NE, I may do it. I'm wanting an evil druid. Not a feral druid like a Malarite, but an NE, [removed], greedy Shifter who does what he wants and does hwat he wants for himself lol

So thats you reason for taking undead shape

Well my 10 druid 20 shifter build would have been able to take dragon shape if he was a ffolk, so you may have some more flexibility if you took some CoT levels in the right places

I'm curious on two feats for a pure wizard build:

Shield vs Iron Will

Thoughts?

Take 1 level of ranger! Get shield for free. And take your iron will. But also get 1 free epic ranger feat to take epic spell focus XX.

Haha if he wasn't supposed to be full wiz I just might XD

What other Proficiencies do you have? Aka: are you going fullplate AutoStill, or DEXing it up?

I'm of the opinion that pure mages are HP mages, and AC mages just have to multiclass because of Tumble/UMD/Profs.

Pure wizards should be HP mages, but putting a little realism into your wizard and taking 10-12 con instead of 16-18 is more fun!

Edit because in my tiredness, I said it wrong.

He's just at 10 CON, no fullplate, just your classic squishy mage. High INT, some extra WIS for RP flavor.

He'll have base 20 Will with Iron Will, 23 with Maxed Owl's.

I just didn't know if it would really matter having the shield. And I just remembered that for spells you are denied armor and shield ac (which is all that AC matters for him) so it's pretty worthless.
I guess the only benefit might be extra mythal slots on the shield.

I'm basically trying to see if Iron Will is gonna be worth it. The highlights of the char are: 1 Epic Focus, Auto Quicken 3, and Greater Spell Pen.

I don't know, I'd say Iron Will.

I'm tossing around an idea for a pure wizard build or maybe a 20 wizard 10 rogue one...just a hard call is all.

HELP Needed, My nerfed up WM Fighter build has got to critical stage, any help with a build that may be less apt to be killed by monsters yielding 1xp would be much appreciated... of course the RP comes first, athough it could go either way, specialising as a general fighter or as a weaponmaster of the axe.

The build so far (yes terrible but hey, I like him as a person). Not much I can do to fix it now, and RP reasons for most of his choices.

Barbarian 1,Fighter 13,Weapon Master 7
STR: 22,DEX: 13,CON: 10,INT: 14,WIS: 10,CHA: 9
Discipline: 24,Heal: 15,Listen: 8,Lore: 10,Spot: 4,Intimidate: 4,CraftArmor: 19,CraftWeapon: 20

Cleave,Dodge,Imp Knockdown,Knockdown,Mobility,Pow Attack,Toughness,Imp Crit: Gr Axe,Weap Foc: Gr Axe,Barbarian Endurance,Darkvision,Barb Rage,Expertise,Imp Expertise,Spring Attack,Blind Fight,Ep Armor Skin,Whirlwind Attack,Ki Damage,Increase Multiplier,Superior Weap Foc:,Ki Critical,Weap Choice: Greataxe

So the options, 5 more WM but lose any chance of Dev crit in exchange for a +2 AB bonus. Something Like:

22: Fighter(14): Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
23: Weapon Master(8)
24: Weapon Master(9): STR+1, Epic Will, (STR=23)
25: Weapon Master(10)
26: Weapon Master(11)
27: Weapon Master(12): Epic Fortitude
28: Weapon Master(13): STR+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe, (STR=24)
29: Fighter(15)
30: Fighter(16): Skill Focus: Discipline, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe

Or more Fighter? giving Dev crit but losing the 2 AB and some saves and discipline:

22: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe
23: Fighter(15)
24: Fighter(16): STR+1, Epic Will, Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, (STR=23)
25: Fighter(17)
26: Fighter(18): Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
27: Fighter(19): Great Strength I, (STR=24)
28: Fighter(20): STR+1, Great Cleave, (STR=25)
29: Fighter(21)
30: Fighter(22): Overwhelming Critical: Greataxe, Devastating Critical: Greataxe

Any thoughts much appreciated as I am ready to take the 22nd level now....

It's not awful, I don't think.

But I would suggest the first option. You will get more out of more WM than Fighter. And instead of SF: Disc, take ESF: Disc.

Eroki wrote:

HELP Needed, My nerfed up WM Fighter build has got to critical stage, any help with a build that may be less apt to be killed by monsters yielding 1xp would be much appreciated... of course the RP comes first, athough it could go either way, specialising as a general fighter or as a weaponmaster of the axe.

The build so far (yes terrible but hey, I like him as a person). Not much I can do to fix it now, and RP reasons for most of his choices.

Barbarian 1,Fighter 13,Weapon Master 7
STR: 22,DEX: 13,CON: 10,INT: 14,WIS: 10,CHA: 9
Discipline: 24,Heal: 15,Listen: 8,Lore: 10,Spot: 4,Intimidate: 4,CraftArmor: 19,CraftWeapon: 20

Cleave,Dodge,Imp Knockdown,Knockdown,Mobility,Pow Attack,Toughness,Imp Crit: Gr Axe,Weap Foc: Gr Axe,Barbarian Endurance,Darkvision,Barb Rage,Expertise,Imp Expertise,Spring Attack,Blind Fight,Ep Armor Skin,Whirlwind Attack,Ki Damage,Increase Multiplier,Superior Weap Foc:,Ki Critical,Weap Choice: Greataxe

So the options, 5 more WM but lose any chance of Dev crit in exchange for a +2 AB bonus. Something Like:

22: Fighter(14): Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
23: Weapon Master(8)
24: Weapon Master(9): STR+1, Epic Will, (STR=23)
25: Weapon Master(10)
26: Weapon Master(11)
27: Weapon Master(12): Epic Fortitude
28: Weapon Master(13): STR+1, Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe, (STR=24)
29: Fighter(15)
30: Fighter(16): Skill Focus: Discipline, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe

Or more Fighter? giving Dev crit but losing the 2 AB and some saves and discipline:

22: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe
23: Fighter(15)
24: Fighter(16): STR+1, Epic Will, Weapon Specialization: Greataxe, (STR=23)
25: Fighter(17)
26: Fighter(18): Epic Weapon Specialization: Greataxe
27: Fighter(19): Great Strength I, (STR=24)
28: Fighter(20): STR+1, Great Cleave, (STR=25)
29: Fighter(21)
30: Fighter(22): Overwhelming Critical: Greataxe, Devastating Critical: Greataxe

Any thoughts much appreciated as I am ready to take the 22nd level now....

I would also pick option 1...more weapon master over fighter. You can also go option 2 and get back the +2 AB with a slight change in feats...but not sure you want to do that.

Working on a new concept, a CHA Based Sorc/Blackguard, a smite happy spellsword type of... thing. Anyway, I have no idea what other classes I might takeor the level distribution etc etc, so, wondering what you guys think.

Interesting concept. I'd say Rogue?

Sorc 12/BG 16/Rogue 2?

BG 16 is what everyone says to take, but I dunno if it's all that big of a deal. Never really played with a BG.

dayfer wrote:

Working on a new concept, a CHA Based Sorc/Blackguard, a smite happy spellsword type of... thing. Anyway, I have no idea what other classes I might takeor the level distribution etc etc, so, wondering what you guys think.

Well, Bard or RDD come to mind...maybe fighter for weapon spec and a little AB love...or rogue...

Would depend on your level distribution I think...

Would you be a Sorc that is also a Blackguard or a Blackguard that has some Sorc ability?

I think maybe you could just forget the third class and go 20 Sorc/10 BG or maybe 17 Sorc/13 BG.

Or reverse it and go 16 BG/14 Sorc (or 16BG/11 Sorc/3 Rogue)

Naivatkal wrote:

He's just at 10 CON, no fullplate, just your classic squishy mage. High INT, some extra WIS for RP flavor.

He'll have base 20 Will with Iron Will, 23 with Maxed Owl's.

I just didn't know if it would really matter having the shield. And I just remembered that for spells you are denied armor and shield ac (which is all that AC matters for him) so it's pretty worthless.
I guess the only benefit might be extra mythal slots on the shield.

I'm basically trying to see if Iron Will is gonna be worth it. The highlights of the char are: 1 Epic Focus, Auto Quicken 3, and Greater Spell Pen.

Bumpin this up so it doesn't get lost. Supposed to take Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen this level, so I'm holding as I mull things over XD

ninja edit: Oh, and of course I am taking EMD, Great INT for ending 28 base, and probably Greater Ruin as well.

Simeron wrote:

Would you be a Sorc that is also a Blackguard or a Blackguard that has some Sorc ability?

The idea is to gain the Sorcerous abilities via a pact with a devil, hence the BG lvls. The Sorc 20 BG 10 sounds good, as does the 12 Sorc/16 BG/2 Rogue. Though the idea s for him to be powerful enough to conceal his alignment. so the 20 Sorc/10 BG may be the better way to go...

Well, on the "Hard to do" scale, there's 2 things.

1: Alignment concealment is, as a matter of course, not hard to do.
2: The stronger you are, the harder it is to hide your alignment.
3: The more Divine character levels you have, the harder it is to conceal your alignment.
4: If you're an Outsider, it's harder to conceal your alignment.

Edit: I mean 4 things.

TormakSaber wrote:

2: The stronger you are, the harder it is to hide your alignment.

Hm... in that case I could probally go ahead and go with one of my origonal ideas, as in, barely lvling him, up to 3 Sorc max, still going through a minor pact to get those. Being weaker suits the idea of him better anyway, manipulating those more powerful etc etc.

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