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So my question: Multi-class or not?

Can Selûne be the patron of Druids?

Does anyone know if the Master Scout Dash movement speed bonus stacks with Monk Speed?

As a curiosity, do Ranger and Master Scout mix well? The concept idea of the Master Scout fits more the personality of my Ranger, having grown up living more outdoors and in the wilds than within cities but certainly more so lately IC actions have started to push her to stay more away from built up areas and within the wilder areas.

Would a Ranger build gain much from taking Master Scout seeing as they share certain aspects?

A character who hates magic and deliberately doesn't use any magic items or gear. I know it's almost laughably infeasible, but HOW infeasible, exactly?

It seems like the two best classes for this are Monk and Barbarian, with liberal applications of Rogue and Fighter. Monk is obvious, but what about barbarian? Forsakers have always felt more in-tune with that class, from my experience. Should one focus on rage's survivability, or deal enough damage to kill everything before it kills you? Is it flatly impossible without DC requesting 'items' to mimic bonuses from the MotW prestige class?

A part of me wonders whether the DM staff would go for a forsaker-character DC requesting special abilities like Disjunction, dispel-on-hit, or incredibly high SR, so long as they adhere to their nonmagical rules. Not being able to take Mind Blank potions alone is a major concern. If only there was a way to nullify the magical properties of someone's gear for a short time - if I recall, forsakers can absolutely do that to magic items, and it would level the playing field almost immediately.

Okay, so DD's get +2 AC instead of +4 by level 10, but... at what levels do they get that AC? I've never really made one, but I'm... curious.

Author:	davis114 [ Thu, May 21 2015, 16:35 PM ]
Post subject:	Classes
All discussion on Classes should go here. Examples: What class best fits this concept? Which class gets this bonus? Which classes have a full BAB progression?

Author:	davis114 [ Fri, Jun 12 2015, 13:40 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Shifters

Author:	walnutboy [ Wed, Jul 22 2015, 21:19 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Kinda hoping this is in the right place! Been a while since i played nwn, certainly a long time since i rolled a character for a persistent world. When i originally played multi-classing was discouraged and build kept pure class to show dedication to a certain path, but over the years when they brought out the add-ons multi-classing became common place. Now i've always played pure class build mainly due to finding a build that worked for me and not having a clue as to how to successfully cross class a build but also because i figured my characters were driven down a certain path and would stick with it. My cleric was devoted to his God so was never anything but a cleric, my fighter was a fighter who had her skill beat into her from a young age! So my question: Multi-class or not?

Author:	Dark Immolation [ Thu, Jul 23 2015, 5:36 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
walnutboy wrote: So my question: Multi-class or not? I would say it completely depends on the PC. Contrary to some popular beliefs, being a pure-class build doesn't always show dedication or that you're somehow any better at something than what mechanically you are. Some of the powerful NPCs in FR are multi-classed (Elminster, The Simbul, good ol' Drizz't, Artermis Etreri, Gromph). I would think the idea of being "better" because you're pureclassed doesn't really exist in the setting for a number of reasons, despite what we'd think OoC. 1) There is no "level cap" IC. You could theoretically be a Lv 30 Druid almost as easily as you could be a Lv 30 Druid/1 Fighter. There's no rush to make sure you only follow one path, because by the time you've mastered it, spending a few months picking up some other tidbits is trivial to the time you've spent on your main skill. 2) Classes are fuzzier IC. Not every "fighter" knows they've got X levels of the class vs Y levels of "rogue." For most non-divine, non-specific classes, they're just the skills you pick up IC. In fact, it could be quite awkward to have a pureclassed PC in the setting. A lv 30 Wizard is not really any more powerful or magnificent at wizarding than a lv 29 Wiz/1 Rogue... and the latter knows how to do other things like tumble out of danger, pick locks, and sneak about. Whatever clout the first wizard claims for having an extra d8 on his Meteor Swarm looks petty in the face of everything the second Wizard knows how to do outside of his main job. Now. From a purely mechanical standpoint, multi-classing still often results in a more robust build. The only builds I can think of that don't necessarily gain all that much from multiclassing are the classes everyone dips for already: Bard, Monk, and Rogue. 30 in any of those is about as functional as any other build of the same main class, barring taking 4 fighter for Weapon Specialization. Even then, the pure versions still get something to show for their extra 4 levels; Bard gets a better song, Monk gets an extra AC, speed and SR, and Rogue gets an extra Rogue feat and better Sneak Attack. What it boils down to is what you want to play and the PC you're playing. I would personally say your cleric could and would be every bit as dedicated taking a little effort to learn about another trade. After all, what god doesn't want their right hand men somewhat adaptable? If being able to use more damaging weapons, or having access to more skills helps them in their work, how could that be seen as being less dedicated? They might be seen as all the more dedicated in their god's eyes for going outside of their decades-old comfort zone to learn the skills to make them better at their original job. On the other hand, if their pure-classness is a testament just to how much they are dedicated to that walk of life and nothing else, then sure, maybe it is, but mechanically and ICly speaking their mileage may vary compared to supposedly less dedicated folk.

Author:	walnutboy [ Thu, Jul 23 2015, 9:35 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Wow thanks what well rounded answer! I guess in part my own problem comes in two form, 1) playing a world that for the most part frowned on mutliclassing and even after the expansions pretty much controlled how many levels and what you could really multiclass in their setting. 2) is perhaps more down to me not having a real clue about it and after x amount of years not playing, my understanding of how to build it mechanically is even worse! lol Those things are perhaps more ooc reasons than anything else and i certainly agree that if a characters rp takes then on a path of betterment then why wouldnt he or she step up an embrace that challenge?

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Classes https://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=82156	Page 1 of 1

Author:	davis114 [ Thu, Jul 23 2015, 17:04 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Check out the Thanks for All the Fish thread. It's got a ton of builds you can peruse to gain a better understanding of the mechanics of building. Whether or not you want to multi-class is entirely up to you, of course, but no one here is going to frown on you for building however you like. There are only a few classes that really benefit from not multi-classing, and they're generally spell-casting classes. Rogues, bards, and paladins can also theoretically do it, but their multi-classes builds are often better.

Author:	LunarBloom [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 18:24 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
For Dragon Disciple, how are the Draconic Abilities gained in terms of numbers? Since it's 4 STR instead of 8, is it +2 at lv1 and +2 at lv4 or +1 at Lv1, +1 at Lv4 and +2 at Lv10? Thank you

Author:	Raua [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 18:50 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
It'd be the former! +2 at Level 2, +2 again at level 4.

Author:	LunarBloom [ Tue, Jul 28 2015, 19:49 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Oh, great! Thanks for the answer, Raua

Author:	LunarBloom [ Wed, Jul 29 2015, 23:58 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Can Selûne be the patron of Druids?

Author:	Liz [ Thu, Jul 30 2015, 0:19 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
LunarBloom wrote: Can Selûne be the patron of Druids? See here. I'd argue that druididsm is just fine for Selune, but the FR rules seem to disagree. Further discussion on that should probably be directed to the Lore forum, though.

Author:	LunarBloom [ Thu, Jul 30 2015, 0:26 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
That's weird, since Malar is in there... Anywho, thanks Liz!

Author:	Rigela [ Thu, Jul 30 2015, 0:33 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Malar takes druids, by faiths and pantheons at least. He's 'statted' as a druid too, I believe.

Author:	Liz [ Thu, Jul 30 2015, 2:33 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Malar was one of the few gods to get majorly revised between 2nd Ed and 3rd Ed. Before, he was wrathfully anti-druid, kill all the druids, druids are weak and pathetic. He's way more balance-ish now, but lots of people still work from the 2nd Ed sources, because they are way more detailed.

Author:	NAUX [ Wed, Sep 30 2015, 8:21 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Can anyone outline the main differences between 20 Wiz / 10 PM and 10 Wiz / 20 PM (just for sake of discussion)? Is this roughly right? 20 Wiz / 10 PM - Winterwight - Greater general spell access and potency (higher DC's / Durations) - PM combined necromancy spells (DC / Durations) - Weaker touch attack DC 10 Wiz / 20 PM - Winterwight - Stronger touch attack DC - Stronger PM feat abilities (AC, etc) - Weaker general spell access and potency (reliant on learning scrolls and meta magics for spell access) - PM combined necromancy spells. (DC / Durations) Thanks

Author:	Larsaan [ Wed, Sep 30 2015, 11:16 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Wiz10/PM20 gets an extra bonus epic feat. Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong here, you won't be able to take epic spells with just 20 levels in Wizard, whereas PMs can select them after class level 15. Wiz20/PM10 does get a slightly stronger familiar, though probably still not enough for actual combat.

Author:	bobofwestoregonusa [ Fri, Nov 20 2015, 22:29 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
I like using master scout in a lot of builds, but my favorite is the STR ranger it gets lots of base damage, favored enemy, neat feats, and a good str buff from it's bonus feats. Plus it's just super cool. A buddy made what is my favorite flavor of it, ranger 23/master scout 5/rogue 2 I think. Don't worry about dual weilding. Just take heavy armor and rock the sword and board. And hit -hard-. Who needs to crit? You're using your high str mod a nd bane of enemies to do whoop on stuff already. Crits are nice of course, but this just battera crit immune creatures like constructs, elementals, and undead if you include then among your favored enemy list.

Author:	Shadowfiend [ Tue, Nov 24 2015, 10:09 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Maybe a bit late, but a Ranger 23 Master Scout 5 fighter 4 split would offer more dps from weapon spec and epic weapon spec, at the cost of some skill-points and umd. Master Scout offers a lot of cool stuff in few levels, and a lot of it is stuff that any melee build could benefit greatly from. At the cost of a considerable amount of hp (20-36) you get a small speed boost, an ab bonus in natural areas, and something similar to a rage that gives +5 uni saves at max master scout lvl. There's also plenty of other stuff you might want to enjoy finding out yourself.

Author:	Opustus [ Thu, Aug 06 2015, 23:12 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Does anyone know if the Master Scout Dash movement speed bonus stacks with Monk Speed?

Author:	TormakSaber [ Thu, Aug 06 2015, 23:55 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
99% sure it does.

Author:	Opustus [ Fri, Aug 07 2015, 1:28 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
I'll take that gamble!

Author:	NAUX [ Wed, Sep 30 2015, 12:04 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Thanks. As for the rest of the details I outlined, that looks about right?

Author:	Raua [ Wed, Sep 30 2015, 15:57 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
For the most part, you have the differences pretty well-cut! Both versions will get you epic spells, PM class levels will add to your ability to cast Epic spells AFAIK, BUT the 20 PM one, though, will let you take them as bonus PM feats and it usually stacks up a lot more cleanly. In both builds your Familiar will be a joke when it comes to combat, and best kept as an RP flavor tool, you'll always be using your winterwight instead. So the difference between 10 & 20 Wizard familiars is moot, in my opinion. Both will have the same issues with being dispelled, unfortunately. When it comes to dispelling, 20 Levels really isn't that much better than 10. Especially when it comes to PvP. 24 Wizard is the bare minimum there. Only thing I'd tell you to change/keep in mind if you wanted to make a Palemaster Build is make it 10 Wizard / 19 PM / 1 Bard, because the benefits of 20 PM over 19 PM are... Marginal at best, and a Tumble/Discipline/UMD class is awesome to have. So it's a no brainer in my eyes~ ;D

Author:	LetumLux [ Thu, Oct 15 2015, 10:33 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Opustus wrote: Does anyone know if the Master Scout Dash movement speed bonus stacks with Monk Speed? TormakSaber wrote: 99% sure it does. Having had a Monk, a Monk / MS, and a non-Monk / MS - yup!

Author:	walnutboy [ Mon, Nov 16 2015, 23:48 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
As a curiosity, do Ranger and Master Scout mix well? The concept idea of the Master Scout fits more the personality of my Ranger, having grown up living more outdoors and in the wilds than within cities but certainly more so lately IC actions have started to push her to stay more away from built up areas and within the wilder areas. Would a Ranger build gain much from taking Master Scout seeing as they share certain aspects?

Author:	Solvaras [ Tue, Nov 17 2015, 15:04 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
walnutboy wrote: As a curiosity, do Ranger and Master Scout mix well? The concept idea of the Master Scout fits more the personality of my Ranger, having grown up living more outdoors and in the wilds than within cities but certainly more so lately IC actions have started to push her to stay more away from built up areas and within the wilder areas. Would a Ranger build gain much from taking Master Scout seeing as they share certain aspects? They blend very well, plus master scout gives you your tumble dump.

Author:	walnutboy [ Tue, Nov 17 2015, 15:18 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
May have to think about partly rebuilding her then and trying it. I certainly like the concept of the class.

Author:	Overneath [ Wed, Jan 20 2016, 21:03 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
A character who hates magic and deliberately doesn't use any magic items or gear. I know it's almost laughably infeasible, but HOW infeasible, exactly? It seems like the two best classes for this are Monk and Barbarian, with liberal applications of Rogue and Fighter. Monk is obvious, but what about barbarian? Forsakers have always felt more in-tune with that class, from my experience. Should one focus on rage's survivability, or deal enough damage to kill everything before it kills you? Is it flatly impossible without DC requesting 'items' to mimic bonuses from the MotW prestige class?

Author:	Maverick00053 [ Wed, Jan 20 2016, 21:06 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Overneath wrote: A character who hates magic and deliberately doesn't use any magic items or gear. I know it's almost laughably infeasible, but HOW infeasible, exactly? It seems like the two best classes for this are Monk and Barbarian, with liberal applications of Rogue and Fighter. Monk is obvious, but what about barbarian? Forsakers have always felt more in-tune with that class, from my experience. Should one focus on rage's survivability, or deal enough damage to kill everything before it kills you? Is it flatly impossible without DC requesting 'items' to mimic bonuses from the MotW prestige class? With Barbarian you need to go super tanky/DR focused while using a two hander and aiming to kill all before they kill you. How successful will you be? PvE you will be a beast but in PvP you will suck terribly. PvP is dictated heavily by crits, ab and ac. Crits and any decent AB laugh at your DR and high HP.

Author:	Overneath [ Wed, Jan 20 2016, 21:37 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
A part of me wonders whether the DM staff would go for a forsaker-character DC requesting special abilities like Disjunction, dispel-on-hit, or incredibly high SR, so long as they adhere to their nonmagical rules. Not being able to take Mind Blank potions alone is a major concern. If only there was a way to nullify the magical properties of someone's gear for a short time - if I recall, forsakers can absolutely do that to magic items, and it would level the playing field almost immediately.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Fri, Jan 22 2016, 20:53 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
I don't think I could approve of that, even though the Forssaker/magebreaker archetype in PnP is definitely one of my favorite things.

Author:	dvdb35 [ Wed, Mar 02 2016, 22:47 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Wanting to inspire some Drow RP. I'm planning on making a High Priestess for the Drow House idea I would like to pioneer. with my experience Drow High Priestess' are strictly Clerics or that nature (female of course). --Would there be major major confliction of my Drow High Priestess being a Shapeshifter rather than Cleric build?

Author:	NinjaClarinet [ Wed, Mar 02 2016, 22:54 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Drow lore aint my forte, but shapeshifting seems to go contrary to the whole "The female Drow form is the height of divine perfection" schtick. I could see some lesser minion/lackey type Drow being a shapeshifting spy, but a High Priestess? Can't see it personally.

Author:	Anatida [ Wed, Mar 02 2016, 23:07 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
One of the DMs will have to say for sure. Historically a matron of a noble house has been required to be a cleric, and have a minimum of 17 cleric levels. I don't know if that has changed recently or not.

Author:	dvdb35 [ Wed, Mar 02 2016, 23:20 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
I appreciate the feedback. I'm going to have to get this build spot on.

Author:	TormakSaber [ Thu, Mar 03 2016, 3:58 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
While I personally always thought the OOC cleric requirement was a bit silly: In character (and I agree with this part), it makes very little sense for a non-cleric to hold higher status in the house than a Cleric, especially high priestess or matron, especially if the Cleric presses the issue, in Lolthite society. n..b this isn't a hard dm ruling, I know nothing about Drow since I was gone.

Author:	Naivatkal [ Thu, Mar 03 2016, 4:06 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
Having a non-cleric be the head of a UD drow house is really rare, far as Amia-lore is considered (speaking IC and OOC, and from talks with Dusty in the past). It's also a good way to get called heretics But seriously, that's how the lore has continued to go for the past X number of years so you're not off the mark, Tormak

Author:	dvdb35 [ Thu, Mar 03 2016, 7:58 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Classes
The feedback is always appreciated. Scraped the idea for the shapeshifter. Completed the build for a Cleric Matron Mother High Priestess, obviously following Lloth.