AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

I lied. Let's see what we can see. I'm thinking 24 Cleric / 5 Rogue / 1 Ranger. Human.

Starting stats: 10 Str, 10 Con, 16 Dex, 12 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Cha.

Going to 20 on Dex and Wis.

Pre epic: toughness, weapon finesse, weapon focus (dagger), blind fight, max spell, extend spell, knockdown, spell focus evocation.

Epic: armor skin, EMD, greater spell focus, epic spell focus, epic weapon focus.

I'm doing this from my phone, so forgive any math mistakes. Never made a dex build without ED, so that irks me, but it looks solid enough off the top of my head. Thoughts?

After testing, I don't know how much difference those evo focuses are gonna make with only 24 levels of cleric. I could possibly be persuaded to take more melee feats.

Also, skills? As it stands right now, I maxed out Hide and MS. But I don't know how much that actually fits the character. And I don't have room for Disc and Conc, which hurts. Should I scrap Hide and Ms altogether? I do have plenty of methods of initiating sneak attacks without hiding.

If you plan on casting, I'd make room for concentration.... if this is your Valkurian, hide and move silently are... meh. Also... 8 CHA and you want to be a ladies man?

I'm trying to figure out what the focus is... caster? or dex fighter?

Lol no, I don't intend for him to be a ladies man. The comment just struck me as funny, considering my past characters. Particularly Sundyr.

At any rate, he will have to do some casting. I can't have 24 levels of casting class without casting. But yes, he will also have the ability to melee effectively, being dex based. With both his wisdom and dex being at the same level, I guess I'm mixing both worlds. Which, I'm aware will make him not optimal in either category. But the concept demands both, so both he will be.

If you get 20 WIS, can be a dex spellblade cleric....

If you put them both equal... probably would be near there anyway. I'm guessing in the low 60's for AC and low 50's for AB... I'd call that a good meleer.

All true. I think I will dump Hide and MS for Disc and Conc. Which makes my maxed skills Tumble, Spot, Disc, and Conc. And some in UMD.

MIGHT want to move away from the dagger, though. Especially if I'm not going to be sneaking. Maybe shortsword or rapier?

Also, bear in mind for any consideration, I can't wear armor. Doesn't say anything about shields, but armor is definitely out, per the lore on Valkur.

Rapier is a good sailor weapon.

I made a dexer cleric once... only had 16 WIS... the basics. Elven, so 40 DEX and got 65 AC, 55 AB... even unbuffed, was 55 AC and 42 AB... lots of fun.

Rapier, then. That begs the question. Evo focuses or more melee feats? I could, for instance, ditch the focuses and grab improved critical, epic prowess and maybe still spell for that sweet, sweet Earthquake spamming.

Hehe, I know how I'd do it... but I'm not much of a caster player... more a fighter-spellblade type.

Hmm...if I'm not going to be sneaking, maybe 25 cleric / 4 fighter / 1 rogue would be better. Or some variant of fighter. Preferably for EWS.

Something to consider with a dexer..... uncanny dodge. It sucks losing ALL your AC if you cast or chug a potion in combat. As a dexer, that's a lot of AC to lose through dex and dodge AC

Truth. Though I'd like to have the ability to dual wield if I'm not going to get a fourth attack. So, maybe rapier isn't the best bet.

Maybe...handaxes. I could roll with handaxes. They're sexy.

davis114 wrote:

Rapier, then. That begs the question. Evo focuses or more melee feats? I could, for instance, ditch the focuses and grab improved critical, epic prowess and maybe still spell for that sweet, sweet Earthquake spamming.

Still spell is useless for clerics. They automatically can cast anything in armor.

I know. But still spell only uses one spell slot higher. Which means I can have a ton of Earthquake casts.

Assuming I were to go handaxes, I'd have to choose between some feats. Here are the must-have's.

Pre-Epic: Finesse, Weapon Focus, Blind-fight, Maximize, Extend.

I have three left. Thoughts between: Dodge, ITWF, Imp Crit, KD, and Toughness?

For Epic: Armor Skin, EMD, EWF, Great Dex.

One left. Thoughts between Prowess and ESF: Spot. (Leaning toward Prowess, as my Wis mod will boost my spot nicely.)

What maverick is getting at is use silent spell instead of still. It's the cleric's best friend when it comes to spellbook management.

As for the pre-epic feats, Improved crit and Knockdown should be two. Take a crafting feat of your choice as your third.

Makes sense.

So. Pre epic: Finesse, WF, BF, Max, Extend, Silent, Imp Crit, and KD.

Epic: AS, EMD, EWF, Great Dex, Prowess.

Handaxes. So taking the ranger level at 2 for martial.

23 cleric/6 fighter/1 rogue is kinda the cookie cutter cleric spellblade. With MAD you're not going to get any spell DCs to write home about so focus on melee feats.

Get WIS up to 20, go 4 fighter 16 cleric pre-epic. Dump the rest into DEX. Keep an eye on your cleric bonus feats because you can end up ballsing your feat order and attribute boosts, and being stuck with a Great Wisdom as your only choice which will throw off your numbers.

On spell focuses and casting as a melee cleric, you're tight on feats as it is, so I'd invest all in combat feats and only take the mandatory Extend and Maximise spell. Such spells as Storm of Vengeance, Earthquake and Hammer of God work well enough against mobs and PCs with low saves without the focuses to boost the DCs, and for the DC-heavy Fort rolling spells you'd need to max WIS too for it to be worthwhile. Certain classes have a hard time making room for Will and/or Reflex, and you can exploit that knowledge to your benefit. Greater Ruin is always a good spell to bag, because it hits hard against particularly nasty foes, such as rogues, spellcasters and bosses.

And I agree with NinjaClarinet on having more of Fighter. The EWS will amount to more consistent DPS than the 2d6 SA. I might even be intrigued to roll a Clerk23/Fighter5/MS2, the MS for Uncanny Dodge I and to accentuate the seafarer aspect of a Valkurian priest, though admittedly the Ranger grants the same perks with less hassle and you wouldn't miss out on that sweet sweet UMD.

I was initially taking those rogue levels for the skill boost and uncanny dodge.

With only one rogue, I lose out on uncanny dodge, and some skill points.

Essentially, I had six skills worth investing in. Concentration, Discipline, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble, and UMD.

If I were to go with more fighter, what would be the best to lose? I could live without uncanny dodge, just have to be smarter about where I do things.

What about 26 cleric, 3 rogue, 1 ranger? ..... ranger taken in epics for free feat.

Ehh...I can live without uncanny. If I went more fighter I'd probably go back to rapier too. Dunno. both build paths seem fairly viable. But I do enjoy EWS on a melee character, even a cleric.

Geeeeeeh. Must decide.

If you wanna do melee, you might like going 4 ranger pre-epic, and 2 rogue post epic. You get evade and some decent skills. Or, if you wanna be really interesting, go 4 divine champion pre-epic instead.

If you are going more caster, then I agree with your original build idea.

28 Cleric 1 Rogue 1 Ranger.

A caster cleric still melee's better than damn near anyone if you have time to buff. If you dont have time to buff drop some epic spells, game over.

I considered going almost full caster. Mechanically speaking, hell yes. From a concept standpoint, though, I think it makes more sense for him to have less caster levels. Valkur respects followers who are more physically capable of handling their business than those who call for aid often. Couple that with his being a sailor, and I think the fighter levels make sense.

The lack of armor is way more influential than I thought, actually.

I'd look at Cleric/fighter/MS again. The MS stuff in particular seems it could be sailorish to me (bombs and freedom, plus uncanny dodge). Might even drop the cleric levels to 20 to fit both well.

Those stupid curved rapiers could be somewhat looked at as a cutlass too, I'd go with that.

Where does the Valkur lore say no armor? It wasn't mentioned on the wikia. No armor at all, or no heavy/metal armor?

Here

Quote:

Priest of Valkur use clubs, staves, daggers, tridents, and cutlasses in battle. Due to the impediments of armor to a swimmer, priest of Valkur do not wear any. The spell selection consist of major access to the spheres of All, Divination, Elemental (air, water), Healing, Protection, Summoning (aquatic creatures only), and Weather, with minor access to Animal, Chaos, Charm, Combat, and Plant.

There's some stuff in the Stormwrack supplement you might want to look at. Light armor might be acceptable. Leather, at least, since it actually doesn't impede swimming (Swim checks are subject to double the normal armor check penalty, but leather has zero armor check penalty).

I think there's a 2e sourcebook with a bunch of sea-faring stuff.

Otherwise, without any armor or being able to totally focus on dex, you might be better off as a full zen archery caster cleric. Or maybe cleric25/MS5 to give you some style.

I won't be going zen archery. Just don't like the damage. My AB, AC, and dmg all work out decent enough, even without armor. Master Scout though...now that does seem to fit the concept. I mean, I'd have to give some things up, but it does merit the cool factor.

24 Cleric / 5 MS / 1 Rogue or Ranger.

OR

23 Cleric / 6 Fighter / 1 Rogue.

Decisions, decisions.

Okay. Mechanically speaking, fighter is superior. But for once, I think I'd rather go with the cooler concept over the mechanically superior. That hurts my mathematical mind, but so be it.

I lose a couple of things with MS, like Improved Critical and KD, but I do gain a couple of epic feats. I can even fit GR and EMD into the build, while still retaining Great Dex, Prowess, AS, EWF, and ESF: Spot.

The MS requirements are expensive, but with the rogue level I can fit UMD.

I have one last question before ironing out the remainder of the build progression on my own. Would 21 cleric / 4 fighter / 5 master scout be worth considering? I'd lose UMD, but gain some damage. But I'd be easier to dispell too with less than 24 cleric levels.

Build: Cleric / Rogue / Ranger

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