Looking at Monk/Rogue or Monk/Assassin builds. Both STR/Dev Crit and DEX/Epic Dodge versions. Never made an Dev Critter or Epic Dodger or Assassin, all new territory.

Four combos sketched out at so far. Fishing for suggestions and insights.
Questions:
- I actually like kamas, but wonder how effective they are against high DR, which seems kinda popular.
- I hear Epic Dodge is IT, but is a DEX build better than STR? A LIittle better AC but lower AB cuz of dual weild.
- Is Dual wield a good way to go?
- Is Dev Crit worth it? A Quarterstaff monk would look awesome.
- All builds have a lot of Abilities that need buffing. Maybe too much?

1. Rogue 10/ Monk 12/ Fighter 8 [Dev Crit]

Race: Wild Elf (+2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int)

STR: 26 (+14)
AB: 43
AC: 62ish
APR: 7

Features:
- Quarterstaff
- Dev Crit
- 22 SR (Is this at all useful?)
- Crippling Strike
- 5d6 Sneak Attack
- 40% Monk Speed

Dis Ads:
- XP penalties the whole way


2. Rogue 16/ Monk 6/ Fighter 8 [Dev Crit]

Race: Wild Elf (+2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con -2 Int)

STR: 26 (+14)
AB: 43
AC: 60ish
APR: 7

Features:
- Quarterstaff
- Dev Crit
- Crippling Strike
- ESF: Hide
- 8d6 Sneak Attack
- 20% Monk Speed


3. Assassin 18/ Monk 6/ Fighter 6 [Epic Dodge]

Race: Air Genasi (elf) (+2 Int +2 Dex -2 Wis -Cha)

DEX: 26 (+14)
AB: 40
AC: 62ish
APR: 8

Features:
- Dual wield Kamas
- Epic Dodge
- Assassin feats/spells
- 9d6 Death Attack
- 20% Monk Speed


4. Assassin 18/ Monk 6/ Fighter 6 [Dev Crit]

Race: Air Genasi (elf) (+2 Int +2 Dex -2 Wis -Cha)

STR: 25 (+13)
AB: 43
AC: 57ish
APR: 6

Features:
- Quarterstaff
- Dev Crit
- Crippling Strike
- Assassin feats/spells
- 9d6 Death Attack
- 20% Monk Speed

you sure it's 62 ac on the epic dodging one? ¨

that said, not a mechanical comment really but you'd have to be creative to make a wild elf monk.

For me it looks like number 1 and 3 are most decent, the first one wins on ab and ac and movement speed, for the cost of some sneak attacks, but not that much and since it's circumstantial I wouldn't say rolling number 2 is worth it compared to number 1.

Number three seems good because it's dex, first of all, and epic dodge. But because you don't win much ac on it apparently, I'd rather go the number one as far as I can see. IT does have more attacks per round, but the last 4-5 wouldn't hit anyway against characters with higher ac.

Number 4 seems bad because it's like it has the worst of all of them, lowest ac, good ab but I don't think it makes up for it. 25 strength, not 26, it has death attack but without a lot of int then it's not really that useful. I could see 3 and 4 being strong with enough intelligence though, so I see why you considered it.

So unless you drop your other stats and gear for int, I'd say number one seems like the one that would be most fun, with most dmg and a decent ac for a strength character.

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I am not weird, I am limited edition

I've played a Rogue 16/Monk6/Ftr8 Devcritter(staff) and an Epic Dodger dual kamae Rogue19/Monk6/Ftr5, and the DEX-base is unquestionably the better build of the two.

The staff whomper is a tonne o'fun when PvMob in party since you are a walking murder machine (ie you will regularly kill five of a mob while the other alleged DPSers are finishing off their first) when getting Sneaks, but the AB/AC doesn't stack up for soloing bosses and the stat spread makes gearing for PvP nigh impossible. If I had my time with him again I'd have left off Devcrit and maybe even Overwhelming in favour of more Rogue and Sneak. Probably Rogue19/Monk6/Ftr5 again.

The DEXer's AB is pretty miserable for bosses, but with all those APR and the AB+Epic Dodge letting you duke it out for a long time you get enough high rolls to make it work, even if it ain't pretty. Your base saves are pretty good for an Epic Dodger, and can be boosted to universal 35-40 without epic loot or crippled AC. Its only edged out by the Epic Dodge or DwD Epic DR III Weaponmaster builds as a PvM buffless character, but the saves and first-round flatfoot Sneakspam make it nastier in PvP.

Never played an Assassin, so I can't comment on whether it's really a better choice than Rogue; the custom attacks look juicy, but are they as juicy as the two bonus feats?

Kinda depends how you build it. I love the assassin build for pure rp goodness, but overall, rogue is still more effective in most builds.

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Just wanted to point out that I realize the nwn monk bible has the first three commandments as "DO NOT TAKE CIRCLE KICK!!!!", however build three can actually use it and be successful with it if you want to try out a rarely used feat.

If you want to try out a feat that will actively get you killed, go for it, yeah. You don't avoid it because it's bad (a free attack would be great), you avoid it because the game's engine using it will get you kiled.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Yes in normal builds it will get you killed. However in the assassin build, it does have a use. It lets you sneak to a group of mobs, circle kick, then they all get stunned from death attack. Granted it's very hard to pull off, but if it works, it's great. That's the only use for circle kick I can think of though.

Doesn't Circle Attack only trigger once per round though? Would that not limit the number of enemies stunned to 2, and not the whole mob as you suggest?

Circle Kick randomly attacks 1 enemy within rang, once per round, while in combat (nd sometimes not in range...), force-changing your attack focus to that enemy. Repeat every round. It's not a whirlwind attack thing. It has a nasty habit of targetting enemies you can't actually hit or properly path to, at which point it drops you from combat and makes you stand still, i.e. you just lost all your dex/dodge AC since you're a monk w/o uncanny dodge. Not to mention it's going to proc after your firs tflurry, at which point the AI has generallyaggrod onto you and will no longer take sneak damage.

The game sohudl just force you to re level if you try to take it. <.<

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I think monks should be granted whirlwind attack, or something similar, in place of circle kick. I just hate it when people take circle kick. Because the feat really does just sound so cool. Then you get to using it, and it's just so, so, so very bad.

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