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blackvswhite
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 1:11 AM 

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Hello, I'm a returning player to this server, and I hopped on my old 10rg/19ass character just to see what she could do only to discover that her ab was only 34, when I see other people talking about getting numbers 50+ on other builds, which is a huge discrepancy... What is the normal math to get high AB on a non full BAB, non caster character? with and without scrolls and potions?


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 1:18 AM 

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You really don't. The advantage of full BAB builds is that they hit mid to high 50's. The disadvantage is a lack of class features and skill points.

You can take some full BAB class levels pre-epic to help, but basically aside from weapon focus and similar feats, as well as starting at 18-20 in your attack stat and maxing it out via gear, there isn't much you're going to do. Rogues/assassins/monks just hang in the 40's.

It's just how it's made.

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Aeqvinox
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 1:57 AM 

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Your character should have the ability to get around 40 AB, provided you have the necessary feats and high primary ability buffed to +12. 40 AB is acceptable for both pve and pvp, but in case of the latter especially - only when attacking out of stealth vs a flat-footed enemy.

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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 3:56 AM 



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Joined: 27 Dec 2013

AB - Attack bonus
BAB - Base Attack bonus


Your AB is calculated as BAB + Feats + AB bonus (20 max) + STR/DEX mod (Dex if higher with weapon finesse)

BAB - This is determined by your levels in classes rounded DOWN. A full BAB progression gives 1.0 BAB per level. A 3/4 Class such as a Bard gives 0.75 BAB per level.
A 1/2 Class such as a Wizard gives 0.5 BAB per level. EXCEPT in epic levels (Level21+) where you always gain 0.5 BAB per level regardless of class. In addition your BAB BEFORE Epic levels determines your amount of attacks per round. 6 BAB gives 2 attacks. 11BAB gives 3 attacks. 16BAB gives 4 attacks.

Feat bonuses - These include things such as Weapon focus feats, Epic Prowess and the Weapon Master and Arcane Archer bonuses.

AB bonus - This includes any temporary or gear (not Stat!) affecting bonuses such as spells like Bless/Prayer/Divine favor aswell as Enhancement. A +5 sword gives 5/20 possible AB bonus.

STR/DEX mod - Simply your STR or DEX total - 10 / 2. Or your STR/DEX mod. Most melee builds tend to try to raise this as high as possible aswell as gear and buffs providing a possible +12 temporary bonus giving an additional +6AB


The highest BAB on the server at level 30 is 25 if all Non-Epic levels have full BAB progression. It is recommended that you attempt to gain as high a BAB as possible by taking the higher BAB levels in Non-Epic levels and leaving the lower BAB levels to the Epic levels where they don't matter. You do still have to consider things such as skill dumps and bonus feats aswell. In example - a 20 fighter then 10 Rogue levels would get 25BAB, but gain no Epic bonus fighter feats and no late skill dump for discipline. A 10 Rogue then 20 Fighter would gain 22BAB but no late level skill dump for Rogue. In this case going something like 3 Rogue / 22 Fighter / 7 Rogue / 1 Fighter would give you 24BAB and 2 Epic feats aswell as late level skill dumps.


The average player AC is around 60, so aiming for 50 buffed AB should be plenty enough to hit most people.


 
      
MightNMagic
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 6:42 AM 

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Well, most dexers are lucky to hit medium 40s at their maximum potential. Most dual wield, which makes it a struggle to even break 40 for some.

+5 weapons
Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Prowess
Starting with as high Dex as you can, raising it every opportunity.
+12 Dex from gear/buffs
Splashing in 4 levels of a full BAB class (like fighter) pre-20 for an extra attack.

Most of that is usually where I stop, although it's possible to buy more Dex with epic feats, usually it's a better idea to buy things like Armor Skin or Epic Weapon Specialization once Epic Weapon Focus/Epic Prowess are bought. Frankly, most monsters in the "epic" areas will get hit by people with high 30s AB consistently, so there's not a lot to be terribly alarmed about if you have over 35ish AB.

Frankly, 50ish AB on a non-caster usually means they're giving up some playability somewhere else for it. Things like Bard, Cleric and spellsword builds can get it usually easily.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 15:42 PM 

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lilmarcat wrote:
The average player AC is around 60, so aiming for 50 buffed AB should be plenty enough to hit most people.


I must be doing something very very wrong if 60 AC is "average". I mean.... a STR based char with all +5 gear AND haste AND somehow casting mage armor on themself can get 60 AC, but... I don't believe that to be "average". Even a dexer is just at 60 without the extras.

Though... I'm listening, would love to know how these things are achieved.

Oh, while we're at it, that "Mid to high 50's AB" also... Unless again, you mean a maxed out Earth Genasi WM who gets 52 AB right off with a +5 weapon, then add aid and bless, warcry, battletide and divine favor and sure... you can get 59 AB. However, that's not realistic to say they have 59 AB.

If that applies, then that dexer can get....
15 BAB +5 from epic
15 dex mod
That's 35 right there.
Hmm, +5 weapon is 40.
Focus, Epic focus and Epic prowess makes that 44
Aid, bless, warcry, battletide and divine favor make it.... 51.
Even dual wielding, that's 49 or... with medium weapons... 47.

Point being... we can make numbers look however we want. But if somone tells me they get 80 AC, my question is... how many contortions do you have to do to get it? How long does that last? If it's 20 seconds of 80 AC and 60 AB because you had to use so many spells, potions and widgets to get there... it's not really those numbers.

Ok... I need more coffee, rant over.


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 15:56 PM 

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yeah i didn't bother replying to it.

if you're a tumble tank you're swinging in the mid 50's, and if you have 60+ ac you're in the low 40's or are a class that just just don't make attack rolls.

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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 16:13 PM 



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60ac is your -buffed- and geared str ac. Thats with buffs yes. So aiming for a build that can give you 50 -buffed- ab is enough. Dexxers get a few above 60ac


 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 08 2016, 16:23 PM 

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lilmarcat wrote:
60ac is your -buffed- and geared str ac. Thats with buffs yes. So aiming for a build that can give you 50 -buffed- ab is enough. Dexxers get a few above 60ac

That's the MAXIMUM AC that build can achieve... with all epic or +5 gear and every trick in the book short of bard song. That's not an average, was my point. An average STR AC is more like.... well, 51+ haste, and all the other stuff, not to mention expertise and improved expertise.


 
      
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