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Would you folks go for 25 Str and Dev Crit, or just go Overwhelming Crit, 24 Str and get Armor Skin and Blind fight feats instead?

25 gets you nothing. so go 24.

dev crit is also really really over-rated and frankly you're better off getting more str for more to hit and more dmg.

Dev Crit is good if you can fit it in, but it's not make or break. I have a char with 26 STR without Dev Crit.

That said, the real choice is Armor Skin and Blind Fight. Both are a must over Dev Crit.

I'd go Armor Skin and Blind Fight myself. Those are pretty staple for melee builds and Blind Fight is necessary for turning (some) fights that last 5 minutes down to 1.

Dev Crit is okay to shoot for if you have all the melee standards (imp crit, blind fight, epic weapon focus, armor skin) but it really, really is little more than a toy. If your build is solid, in PvE you don't need it as the average lackey monster is something you can bulldoze without it and bosses rarely, if ever suffer it and in PvP it only works on n00bs as anyone with levels and prep has a fort to make it "fail on a 1" territory. Even then it's just a nuisance that can be undone by chugging a rem blindness/deafness potion.

Dev Crit, summed up is "six feats to become a minor nuisance" really. It needs a worthwhile buff of some sort to even become "worth it." Weapon master is a better use of those feat slots.

My best char... Tristen, doesn't have devcrit.

MightNMagic wrote:

I'd go Armor Skin and Blind Fight myself. Those are pretty staple for melee builds and Blind Fight is necessary for turning (some) fights that last 5 minutes down to 1.

Dev Crit is okay to shoot for if you have all the melee standards (imp crit, blind fight, epic weapon focus, armor skin) but it really, really is little more than a toy. If your build is solid, in PvE you don't need it as the average lackey monster is something you can bulldoze without it and bosses rarely, if ever suffer it and in PvP it only works on n00bs as anyone with levels and prep has a fort to make it "fail on a 1" territory. Even then it's just a nuisance that can be undone by chugging a rem blindness/deafness potion.

Dev Crit, summed up is "six feats to become a minor nuisance" really. It needs a worthwhile buff of some sort to even become "worth it." Weapon master is a better use of those feat slots.

100% agree.

those pre-epic feats can go into more toys as well. like ikd or skill focus discipline or save feats and the like.

Commie wrote:

those pre-epic feats can go into more toys as well. like ikd or skill focus discipline or save feats and the like.

There's definitely other shit to put stuff in often. The staple devcritter can be much more versatile by not bothering with cleave/gcleave/overwhelming at all and going Improved Expertise or Improved Disarm (if you happen to be using a two hander) instead.

Please don't suggest SF Discipline though. ESF is a tentative 'maybe' if you can't gear Discipline, but there's no excuse to not have +5 disc on 2 pieces of gear, and therefore no excuse to piss a feat on 3 skill points -- not to mention those +30 disc gloves everyone wants.

I'd criticize save feats but first I'd have to ask if you're the kind of person that thinks you can compensate having a terrible will save by taking iron will.

#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:

Commie wrote:

those pre-epic feats can go into more toys as well. like ikd or skill focus discipline or save feats and the like.

There's definitely other shit to put stuff in often. The staple devcritter can be much more versatile by not bothering with cleave/gcleave/overwhelming at all and going Improved Expertise or Improved Disarm (if you happen to be using a two hander) instead.

Please don't suggest SF Discipline though. ESF is a tentative 'maybe' if you can't gear Discipline, but there's no excuse to not have +5 disc on 2 pieces of gear, and therefore no excuse to piss a feat on 3 skill points -- not to mention those +30 disc gloves everyone wants.

I'd criticize save feats but first I'd have to ask if you're the kind of person that thinks you can compensate having a terrible will save by taking iron will.

But it all stacks. 13 discipline from feats, 10 from the helm, 32 from skills, and 15 from strength, and you're likely out of range of TS IKD without the gloves... which is a great place to be as those things go for literally millions and are actually required to have a functional pvp character minus a few specific builds which can skip it.

So for some builds, like the super high strength one im suggesting, it is worth it because that frees up your glove slots.

If you have pre-epic feats to burn gets your list of extra goodies to take in order.

Toughness (Mandatory)
Great Fortitude
Luck of Heroes
Strong Soul

On Gerald I have all of these and epic fortitude which saves me a huge amount of gear space for not worrying about getting dev critted since it nets me 8 extra fort.

But those see luxury feats I get as a wizard at the expense of crafting feats. Most builds don't have that ability.

Commie wrote:

25 gets you nothing. so go 24.

dev crit is also really really over-rated and frankly you're better off getting more str for more to hit and more dmg.

Also, I would have to agree with commie on this. Get a weapon with onhit stun instead. That said, dev crit is great fun on pve and dm events where it has saved lives.

My thoughts on toughness, mando unless you're going to be at 600hp or more with max con. Then it's sort of not as good, because if they can blow through 600 or 800 or 900 they can go through 30 more.

Pretty much what everyone else stated but I still hold dev above what the standard these peeps consider it.

Dev Crit is still really good. It is very feat intensive though. It isn't mandatory anymore like the old dev but if you are using a crit weapon then it will make your life easier in pvp and pve.

That said blind fight is a must feat to take for mele. You should always, and I mean always have it. It is better than a lot of epic feats.

Toughness is ok. If you got the spare feats then it isn't the worst thing to have.

If you told us your build we could help you work out the details. There is almost always a way to make things work.

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

If you have pre-epic feats to burn gets your list of extra goodies to take in order.

Toughness (Mandatory)
Great Fortitude
Luck of Heroes
Strong Soul

On Gerald I have all of these and epic fortitude which saves me a huge amount of gear space for not worrying about getting dev critted since it nets me 8 extra fort.

But those see luxury feats I get as a wizard at the expense of crafting feats. Most builds don't have that ability.

I'd flip this to

LoH
Strong souls
Great Fort
Toughness

30 hp is fine but saves that go beyond the 20 cap will save your life forever.

TormakSaber wrote:

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:

If you have pre-epic feats to burn gets your list of extra goodies to take in order.

Toughness (Mandatory)
Great Fortitude
Luck of Heroes
Strong Soul

On Gerald I have all of these and epic fortitude which saves me a huge amount of gear space for not worrying about getting dev critted since it nets me 8 extra fort.

But those see luxury feats I get as a wizard at the expense of crafting feats. Most builds don't have that ability.

I'd flip this to

LoH
Strong souls
Great Fort
Toughness

30 hp is fine but saves that go beyond the 20 cap will save your life forever.

LoH and Strong Soul are both very potent feats to take from character creation. Great fort if you feel like there's absolutely nothing else to take, and toughness when you feel like burning a feat.

Hrmmmm....so i kinda changed up build mid way, like what i got so far, but was wondering what two take as my end feats. Choices i like are Improved Expertise, Improved Whirlwind or Armor skin. Good Creator i wish i could fit Disarm as well...but was wondering what you folks thought? I'm kinda leaning towards Imp Expert. Got Blind Fight and Dev Crit in my Build soooo...

Whatever else you take, take Armor skin.

Opps, mean i have one Feat to spare, my bad, Blind fight is the other. Doh!

Not to be rude Tarnus, but are there any other opinions about what last feat i should take?

Chupacabra wrote:

Not to be rude Tarnus, but are there any other opinions about what last feat i should take?

Toughness (Mandatory)
Great Fortitude
Luck of Heroes
Strong Soul

Chupacabra wrote:

Hrmmmm....so i kinda changed up build mid way, like what i got so far, but was wondering what two take as my end feats. Choices i like are Improved Expertise, Improved Whirlwind or Armor skin. Good Creator i wish i could fit Disarm as well...but was wondering what you folks thought? I'm kinda leaning towards Imp Expert. Got Blind Fight and Dev Crit in my Build soooo...

Commie, i have one feat left i can take.

armor skin then

Feats decision

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