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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 01 2016, 23:20 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Hello everyone, and welcome to Gam... uh, wrong thing.
Hello everyone!
I've been thinking about how to make a lawful DD. I've seen a build I thought was interesting, which was a BG, but I was thinking about a gold or silver disciple. Now, I'd like to also have the character Lawful Good. Now, I know going a lawful DD is never a good choice, because Bard is better, if you make a melee character, in literally every way. I've been thinking about making him something I would consider a "tank", and because of that thought KC would be a good fit. So, my try at making a lawful DD.

Race: Human (mainly RP reasons, planetouched seems weird, Ffolk doesn't fit theme-wise, and I dislike dwarves)
Spread: 5 Sorceror, 20 Dragon Disciple, 5 Knight Commander (1-5 S, 6-14 DD, 15-8 KC, 19 DD, 20 KC, 21-30 DD. This is to maximise skill points from INT bonus at DD9, and to get as much taunt as possible. Sadly means I only get good weapons and any type of armor at 14)
Abilities: STR 14 / DEX 8 / CON 18 / WIS 10 / INT 10 / CHA 12 (Now, I know 10 DEX and 8 WIS might be better, but I find it easy enough to get +4 on DEX, and I don't like playing 8 WIS characters, basically ideal build vs personal opinion)
Ending Abilities (not counting the new changes, because they count towards the cap, yet (hopefully)): STR 18 / DEX 8 / CON 28 / INT 12 / CHA 14
Feats: (I'm not quite sure here)
1: Blind-Fight, Toughness (though I'm tempted to say Luck of Heroes here, for reflex)
3: KD
6: Lightning Reflexes
9: Skill Focus: Discipline
12:Something, no idea
15:Weapon Focus in a martial weapon (if simple, can be taken earlier)
18:Again, no idea
21:Epic Weapon Focus
24:Armor Skin, Epic DR I
27:Epic DR II
28:Epic DR III
30:Great Constitution

For skills, 15 Tumble, 32 Disc (barely not enough skill points), 14 Spellcraft (+1 INT means 15, means +3 on saves), 23 Taunt (especially unsure if this is useful, but with no AB seems like a good idea), PrC requirements met.

Okay. That build leaves me at around 55-60 AC unbuffed (difficult to test, because it's tested on SP, where that is always funky), 677 hp, 39 AB (Ugh, that hurts), Character Sheet says 32 fort, 17 refl, 26 will, which seems good enough. But the character just is a tank. He will have big problems fixing that, and with no summon to brag about, it seems pretty underwhelming.It also seems like leveling without a party will be really, really annoying, because I will just be a punching bag.

In general, this is a try to cope with the changes and see what works. It seems like another thing that is easier with the changes is just a two-handed-weapon-weilder, since you get hp to offset you loss of AC with that. Again, for an ideal build, you would always go Bard, but I don't want to be locked into non-lawful...
So, any ideas both on other builds that take more than 10 DD and this build in particular are welcome and appreciated.

Robbi320


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 0:21 AM 

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Joined: 02 Dec 2015

Thing with tanking is that DR doesn't work too well when you can be crit and have low AC, so you'll be getting crit a lot, which is just gonna kill you fast. Unless you have shifter or DwD, gearing for con first isn't too effective.

In that vein, I think you would be better served by going bard instead of sorc, so you can get tumble, and dropping the epic dr, as you don't really have a lot going on to support it.

You can tank just fine with a more typical str focused build, and if you start with gobs of con, in addition to all the lovely D12 HD and free con the new RDD gets, plus things like the regen aura and regen on gear, you'll be tanky as all hell anyway.

I'd recommend swapping out of sorc for bard, and going more strength. Note that I do not recommend you get dev crit, as I think it's kind of a garbage feat, and you would be better served by more useful feats pre-epic, and then just two or three instances of 'great stat' in epic for your specific build and goal.

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The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 1:42 AM 

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Joined: 11 Oct 2009

Ironically, I thought of a build for such characters, and here you go. Because RDDs now get +4 CHA, it means it synnergizes very well with both paladin and blackguard for pumping divine might and divine shield.

Here's what you can do:

Sorc/Paladin/RDD 2/10/18
Pre-epic Spread: 2/10/8

Starting Stats: 18/8/14/10/8/14
Pre-epic Feats(8): Weapon Focus, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, IMPR Crit, Divine Might, Divine Shield
Epic(4+2RDD): EWF, Eprowess, Armor Skin, OV Crit, DV Crit, Great STR 1

Ending Stats:
34/8/20/12/8/18

AB ends around 49 unbuffed. You won't have paladin's spell buffs for your AB but you'll have some self-cast true strikes from sorcerer (It's an auto stilled spell, so armor doesn't hurt), for a few bouts of 64 AB. You also truck around with Divine Might, Divine Shield, and a DC 43 dev crit.
The AC is pretty good too. With +10 AC from divine shield and +6 AC from your RDD levels, you can cushion the loss of 3 AC which you lose from only cross classing tumble. That and your base CON of 20 will give you plenty of HP to work with.

It's pretty skill tight though, you won't have room for much more than Tumble, Discipline, and your 8 lore points. I'd probably put the remainder into either spellcraft or spot.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 3:19 AM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Kobra, are you sure you end up at 34, and not 32? I might be thinking wrong, and on tablet it's pretty annoying to check. But 18+7+1 is what a normal person has, +6 from DD is 32.

Also, why bother with 2 sorc? Wouldn't only taking one be better?

Edit: fixed spelling, because it physically hurt me to leave it like that.


Last edited by robbi320 on Thu, Nov 03 2016, 10:25 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 10:34 AM 

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Joined: 11 Oct 2009

It's 18+7+1+8 from RDD, you get the full +8 STR bonus at 12 RDD.

I picked 2 sorc instead of 11 paladin because 1: 10 paladin is all you need to cap your divine might/shield (unless you decide to pump more CHA), and 2, it gives you slightly more true strikes per day. You won't be able to fit 19 RDD without dropping your BAB, so that option is the least appealing.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 12:41 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Oops, didn't notice the +2 in str at 10. That's actually pretty nice... Off to think about the cheesiest WM crit build now. :)

11 Pally gives you third level Pally spells too, because of Charisma bonus, even though those aren't that great. So, sorc probably still is better, just putting it out there.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 13:15 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Fail, Pallies don't get spells from Charisma, I'm an idiot. Ignore the last bit.


 
      
The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 02 2016, 23:49 PM 

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Joined: 11 Oct 2009

The spells from 11 paladin aren't worth it, in my opinion. Divine favor only gets a minimal bonus at that level and you won't have the spellslots to keep it going. You don't have the feat to spare for extend spell either. Bless/aid can be acquired from items, and prayer won't last long. GMW will only give +3 at L11 which isn't worth it, and I could go on. I figured it better to just move the stat points from WIS and spend them on something better like CON. If you fully gear your CON you should have a nasty dragon breath and about 600 HP to boot.

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