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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 8 posts ] 
Strom
 
PostPosted: Wed, Mar 29 2017, 3:26 AM 

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Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Location: Wales, UK

Summary of the Shit Show:

I created Quin when I was sipping on one too many beers one night, I believe my thought process was to try and go 'Bard / Cleric / KC'; though I couldn't come up with a reasonable excuse to ever go for cleric pre-epic due to the problem with playing casters with an under-levelled spell list, so Quin has remained a Bard, recently with some levels of KC.
As you'd imagine this build has left me lacking some pretty crucial things for solo-play, like a str or dex score.
At this point I'm questioning even bothering with the cleric, as he's okay at his job as it is. Which is basically to sing, buff, strategically curse song things and use entreatment if the party healer is going to die.
What I would like are some pointers for trying to make my remaining choices as optimal as possible, if that's even possible. Prepare your butts.


Current Status of the Hot Mess:

Race:

Half-Elf

Class(es):

Bard: 14
KC: 2

Raw Attributes:

Str: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 10
Wis: 15
Cha: 20


Feats:

Blind Fight
Curse Song
Extra Music
Lingering Song
Skill Focus: Discipline
Toughness


Skills:

Discipline: 8
Lore: 14
Perform: 16
Persuade: 4
Taunt: 8
Use Magic Device: 7
Tumble: 15


My Assumptions:

:arrow: Get the highest level bardic instrument I can. Spellslots for buffs.
:arrow: Expertise Feats with a tower shield and be a troll. (That Int Score...)
:arrow: Shit, I'm already sub-optimal, let's try to fit in Master Scout and rely on GRENADES.

:arrow: Re-Level?

:arrow: Pick Up Lasting Winspiration
:arrow: Pick Up ESF: Perform
:arrow: Possibly ESF: Taunt
:arrow: Choose Epic Prowess because honour demands it.

Essentially, I do actually think 25 / 5 is the best bet.However, I don't know if I should capitalise on my limited spell list with some meta-magic, and round my wisdom off at 16 for shits and giggles. Or, actually go for cleric as my whimsy intended?
I abhor the idea of re-levelling, but I admit I would like to swash some buckles with a rapier (NO SHIELD YOU PHILISTINE.) Half serious and serious suggestions are welcome; if anyone can actually present something decent from this I shall hail you as a wizard.

_________________
Characters:

Rook - Tiefling Witch

Grumdur Bari'Var - Dwarven Raider

Desimir Maric - Spellblade of Savras

Cassius Dain - Scribe of House Gulderhom

Timezone: UK (GMT+0)


 
      
The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 30 2017, 2:19 AM 

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Joined: 11 Oct 2009

Hooboy,

Okay, if you don't re-level, you only have 1 more pre-epic feat to take. If you want to swashbuckle at all you need weapon finesse to work with that dex modifier, but extend spell is also really valuable to a bard.

You need 20 bard for winspiration. So your build choices are ultimately 25/5 Bard/KC or 20/5/5 Bard/KC/Cleric. 25/5 Bard/KC is more optimal, the 5 cleric doesn't get you enough for a workable divine might/shield or cleric buffs, but hey, if you want to RP that, it won't effect /that/ much....

Epic Feats: You may need to spend one for extend spell or weapon finesse, whichever you don't take at L18. You need winspiration. If you go 25 bard you get a bonus feat which you can spend for ESF Perform. That leaves two remaining.

You have 3 stat points left to take, (20, 24, 28). It's probably best to put them all into either dex or cha. Dex would be more optimal, I think. It does mean that unless you use a point to round off WIS to 16, that you need to spend a feat for a great dex or cha, whichever you pick.

Personally, I'd take finesse at L18 and my epic feat selection would be: Extend Spell, Lasting Inspiration, Great Dexterity, armor skin, and ESF perform if you decide to go 25 bard. A support bard which has some defensive options and party utility, with the ability to hit like a wet noodle when hunting as well.

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Uberuce
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 30 2017, 8:51 AM 

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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Location: Near the bar.

Bard25/KC5 has been done plenty o'times and I've always loved being in their parties. It's one the few things I've not done with Bard, but only because I kinda don't need to check it out - I've already got a Bard30 so I don't much need to do another support-specialist.

Bard20/Cleric10 is something I've done once, and liked it so I went for the tweak upwards to Bard20/Cleric9/Ftr1; no major change. In effect it's a viable melee Cleric vs bosses but a viable Winspiration Bard for parties.

Bard20/KC5/Cleric5 I just wouldn't do. You don't get a decent Divine Might/Shield of note even if you had the feats spare, and you miss the level 4/5 Cleric buffs that made the 20/10 or 20/9/1 guys so fierce.

If you're a grinder you can get back to 16 in a few days maximum, so I'd quit and remake as a human doing one of the above. Half-elves have two reasons for existing: to unlock AA but stay away from the scrawny model and to avoid XP penalties for multiclassing. That last part is plainly an opinion stated as fact, but it's still fact.


 
      
Strom
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 30 2017, 15:01 PM 

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Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Location: Wales, UK

Alright, had a think on this.

Thanks both for your suggestions, 25 Brd / 5 KC it is.

I probably should re-level, but I won't as he's actually had some solid RP done and it'd be cheap, not to mention most of his friends know he's hilariously bad at swordplay. So, the wet noodle it is.

I think I'll go for Kobra's suggestion, as it'll also let me use a bow and pepper things from a distance in DM events when I'm out of spells... Or, heaven forbid, Melee.
In your brutally honest opinion is even taking finesse worthwhile, as he'll be terribad, so better spent on spell-boosting feats?

_________________
Characters:

Rook - Tiefling Witch

Grumdur Bari'Var - Dwarven Raider

Desimir Maric - Spellblade of Savras

Cassius Dain - Scribe of House Gulderhom

Timezone: UK (GMT+0)


 
      
The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Mar 30 2017, 22:31 PM 

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Joined: 11 Oct 2009

It would be better to pick up finesse if you want him to have any melee capability at all. Assuming you get a 18 dex, it means 4 AB even with maxed STR and Dex from buffs and items. It will also mean you won't need to buff STR to be able to hit stuff, which saves on gearslots. Plus, being able to buff dex would make him more resilient, and can help with party buffs even if he himself doesn't dish out damage.

A bard that pumps CHA and gets GSF enchantment just doesn't cut it is find, you just won't have the sorcerer's spells to be a viable offensive caster, you won't even be able to pick up epic spell focus.

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Mikaz
 
PostPosted: Sat, Apr 01 2017, 17:59 PM 

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Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Somewhere deep in Finland.

If you want to take cleric, 16 Bard/9 Cleric/5 KC might be what you're looking for.

9 Cleric gives you a few useful spells combined with Bard(Divine Power + Divine Favour), depending on what domains you pick you'll get a few extra useful spells; Healing: Heal at 5th Cleric spell slot. Repose: Bless Weapon at 4th Cleric spell slot. Balance: Greater Sanctuary at 5th Cleric spell slot.

Cleric will also gives you Aid/Bless/Prayer that you can use to boost other peoples AB too, but all 3 spells are relatively easily found in items.

It's obvious the build is not going to be optimal no matter what, but whatever way you go about it, the Bard/KC combo makes you useful in almost any party, if you want to bolster that(or your AB with the few cleric spells mentioned) 9 Cleric will give you a few extra useful spells.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 02 2017, 13:07 PM 

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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

Don't do less than 20 bard unless you're doing 1 or 2 bard, imho.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
Mikaz
 
PostPosted: Sun, Apr 02 2017, 14:00 PM 

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Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Somewhere deep in Finland.

20+ Bard levels does give a few more spell slots and duration for your Bardic spells, combined with Lasting Inspiration(Song duration from 10 rounds(15 with Lingering) to 100(105 with lingering) it makes your job as a Bard way more comfortable.

As for going Master Scout, the 2 feat requirements are going to be a bit painful to fulfill at this point, and when you compare 25 Bard/5 Knight Commander to 20 Bard/5 Knight Commander/5 Master Scout, the 25/5 tends to come out on top in most situations, while the 20/5/5 is more of a niche build with higher Feat/Skill requirements.

As far as meta-magic stuff goes, extended spell is always nice, but I wouldn't worry about anything else.

If you can get Perform(75)/Taunt(60+)/Heal(Preferably 25+ naturally) high enough, you'll find yourself very useful in combat(useful for other people, that is) I'd pick Armor Skin over Epic Prowess since your AB will be low anyway.

The 9 cleric I mentioned earlier has its quirks, but as mentioned 20+ Bard tends be what people go for, it is very comfortable after all.


 
      
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