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Carvelan
 
PostPosted: Mon, Apr 24 2017, 12:36 PM 

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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Location: Dark side of the moon!

So I have been playing nwn on and off since release and on Amia on and off from back in 2006 I think but I have never made a serious attempt to make a arcane caster character, so it felt about time.

I came across a lvl spread a few years back that have got stuck in my head and I thought it would be a cool concept but I have no idea what so ever how to build or play an arcane caster or if this character would even be playable or just gimmicky and week :p

Level spread is 23Sorc/6SD/1Ranger

Race human (if someone have a cool Human subrace that fit I'm glad to hear so)

I have no clue about what spellschools metamagic feats and such I need on an arcane caster so all help is welcome.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 25 2017, 9:51 AM 

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I wish I could help but im clueless at builds but I just post to show you some support in this building mess :P Im there myself :(

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Tarnus
 
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 25 2017, 15:37 PM 

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Take 20 sorc levels pre-epic, ranger (take your epic spell focus as the bonus feat from that) and SD in epics. In terms of metamagic, you'll want extend and maximize. Spell focus, all time favorite used to be necromancy for that stuff, though with the recent(ish) changes evocation may also be worth a shot. Its a not uncommon build and should work fairly well.

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Mikaz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 25 2017, 15:55 PM 

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Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Somewhere deep in Finland.

24 Sorc/6 SD would give you immunity to Greater Dispell, making hunting more comfortable.
23 Sorc/1 Ranger/6 SD gives +4 Hide/Move Silently outdoors and 1 Ranger Epic feat(Such as Epic Spell Focus, rest of Epic Ranger feats aren't really worth it for this build)

Human subraces that improve this build are of course CHA boosting ones(Durpari/Calishite)

I would recommend starting with:
Cha 17/19(If you pick a subrace that boosts it)
Dex 14(Must have 13+ for Dodge/Mobility for SD)
Con 12(Raise to 13 at char creation if you use Durpari/Calishite since they drain 1 Con)
Int 12

Leaving Str/Wis as dump stats, of course CHA is the important stat here while the rest aren't a must, but you should pay attention to how many skill points you need, since you need to max Hide/MS.

Now as human you'd have 8 Pre-epic feats and 5 or 6 Epic feats, 2 pre-epic feats that you have to take are Dodge and Mobility for SD.

Good pre-epic feats for this would be:

Extend spells, Maximize spells, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus.

Leaving 2 more feats to pick, since Dodge & Mobility drain 2 slots.

Another Spell Focus & Greater Spell Focus, Spell Penetration & Greater Spell Penetration, Skill Focus: Hide & Stealth or Empower Spells and.. Something.

Good epic feats would include:

Epic Spell: Mummy Dust, Epic Spell Focus, Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, Epic Spell: Dragon Knight(Only with Epic Spell Focus Conjuration) and Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor/Hellball.

Other useful epic feats would be Epic Skill Focus: Hide/Move Silently.

So what do you want from this character mechanically? Epic caster with HiPS? Do you like summoning strong things and letting them do stuff for you, or do you want to be able to cast disabling/damaging spells yourself too? Atleast with sorcerer you can swap spells as you level, letting you try things out.

You might want to read what Spell Focuses buff on Amia these days, since Abjuration has gotten quite strong and depending on what you want to summon from Epic Spells, you'll need the right focus for that too.


 
      
Tarnus
 
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 25 2017, 16:12 PM 

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24/6 on a sorc is a bad idea. You are really giving way too much up with that one. No access to discipline, a horrific skillpoint cost since you need to spend 50 skillpoints just for the requirements, a feat less and no medium armor and shield proficiency. (both of which exist in the form of 0 ASF variations)

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DM Prometheus: Bringing you fire


 
      
Carvelan
 
PostPosted: Tue, Apr 25 2017, 21:36 PM 

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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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Well the plan in the end is to cast offensive spells myself and use hips to stay safe but I guess I need to summon and buffbot at first. I was considering necromancy or evocation but illusion sounds cool and would fit the whol sneaky theme on the character (no idea if it is any good though).

The feats looks pretty locked and on what I will be able to grab.

Any recommendations on source books on sorcerers I should look up?

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Mikaz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 26 2017, 6:14 AM 

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Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Somewhere deep in Finland.

Tarnus has a good point about the benefits of that 1 Ranger level.

Medium armor & shield combined with Epic Mage Armor should make the chars AC decent, while they will lower Hide/MS slightly.

I recommend looking at Amias Spells section to see how much has been customized and deciding your Spell Focuses after that.

As far as focuses on schools like Illusion or Divination go, those are mostly tools for RP.


 
      
Commie
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 26 2017, 15:01 PM 

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Joined: 02 Dec 2015

this is one build i just don't know squat about actually min/maxing, so i'm going to have to leave it up to the others.

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Tarnus
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 26 2017, 15:41 PM 

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If you want to make a durpari, thats how I'd do it:

Class Race Sorcerer(23), Ranger(1), Shadowdancer(6), Dupari

Abilies STR: 9
DEX: 14
CON: 12
WIS: 8
INT: 12
CHA: 19 (26)

30 Dupari: (Quick to Master, Artist)
So 01: Sorcerer(1): Spell Focus: Conjuration, Spell Focus: Necromancy
So 02: Sorcerer(2)
So 03: Sorcerer(3): Extend Spell
So 04: Sorcerer(4): CHA+1, (CHA=20)
So 05: Sorcerer(5)
So 06: Sorcerer(6): Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
So 07: Sorcerer(7)
So 08: Sorcerer(8): CHA+1, (CHA=21)
So 09: Sorcerer(9): Maximize Spell
So 10: Sorcerer(10)
So 11: Sorcerer(11)
So 12: Sorcerer(12): CHA+1, Greater Spell Focus: Conjuration, (CHA=22)
So 13: Sorcerer(13)
So 14: Sorcerer(14)
So 15: Sorcerer(15): Dodge
So 16: Sorcerer(16): CHA+1, (CHA=23)
So 17: Sorcerer(17)
So 18: Sorcerer(18): Mobility
So 19: Sorcerer(19)
So 20: Sorcerer(20): CHA+1, (CHA=24)
So 21: Sorcerer(21): Epic Spell: Dragon Knight
R 22: Ranger(1): Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration, {Dual Wield}
SD 23: Shadowdancer(1): {Hide in Plain Sight}
So 24: Sorcerer(22): CHA+1, Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, (CHA=25)
SD 25: Shadowdancer(2): {Darkvision, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge I}
SD 26: Shadowdancer(3)
SD 27: Shadowdancer(4): Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy
SD 28: Shadowdancer(5): CHA+1, {Defensive Roll}, (CHA=26)
SD 29: Shadowdancer(6)
So 30: Sorcerer(23): Epic Spell: Hellball, Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor


So 01: Concentration(4), Spellcraft(4), Save(8),
So 02: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(10),
So 03: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(12),
So 04: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(14),
So 05: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(16),
So 06: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(18),
So 07: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(20),
So 08: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(22),
So 09: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(24),
So 10: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(26),
So 11: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(28),
So 12: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(30),
So 13: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(32),
So 14: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(34),
So 15: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(36),
So 16: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(38),
So 17: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(40),
So 18: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(42),
So 19: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(44),
So 20: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(46),
So 21: Concentration(1), Spellcraft(1), Save(48),
R 22: Concentration(1), Hide(25), Move Silently(1), Tumble(5), Save(17),
SD 23: Hide(1), Move Silently(2), Tumble(21), Save(1),
So 24: Concentration(2), Spellcraft(3),
SD 25: Heal(2), Hide(2), Move Silently(2), Tumble(2),
SD 26: Heal(5), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1),
SD 27: Heal(5), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Tumble(1),
SD 28: Heal(4), Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Save(2),
SD 29: Hide(1), Move Silently(1), Save(8),
So 30: Concentration(6), Spellcraft(6),

_________________
Playing as:
Aleana Xiloscient: Wherever the winds take her.
Jealesyl Truesong: A voice in the dark
DM Prometheus: Bringing you fire


 
      
Carvelan
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 6:42 AM 

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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
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With your build in mind I made some modifications as the subrace you used doesn't fit the character I have in mind. And is 2 spell schools really necessary? I swapped EDK for EMD as I ditched conjuration.
No any spells I must have? I guess ill try to pick up most of the standard buffs and a bunch of necro spells, but after that I could use some help with sugestions.

Plain Human
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 10
Wis 8
Int 14
Cha 18

So 01: Sorcerer(1): Extend Spell , Spell Focus: Necromancy
So 02: Sorcerer(2):
So 03: Sorcerer(3): Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
So 04: Sorcerer(4): CHA+1, (CHA=19)
So 05: Sorcerer(5)
So 06: Sorcerer(6): Maximize Spell
So 07: Sorcerer(7)
So 08: Sorcerer(8): CHA+1, (CHA=20)
So 09: Sorcerer(9): Empower Spell
So 10: Sorcerer(10)
So 11: Sorcerer(11)
So 12: Sorcerer(12): CHA+1, Toughens, (CHA=21)
So 13: Sorcerer(13)
So 14: Sorcerer(14)
So 15: Sorcerer(15): Dodge
So 16: Sorcerer(16): CHA+1, (CHA=22)
So 17: Sorcerer(17)
So 18: Sorcerer(18): Mobility
So 19: Sorcerer(19)
So 20: Sorcerer(20): CHA+1, (CHA=23)
So 21: Sorcerer(21): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
R 22: Ranger(1): Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy {Dual Wield}
SD 23: Shadowdancer(1):
So 24: Sorcerer(22): CHA+1, Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, (CHA=24)
SD 25: Shadowdancer(2): {Darkvision, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge I}
SD 26: Shadowdancer(3)
SD 27: Shadowdancer(4): Greater Charisma I (CHA=25)
SD 28: Shadowdancer(5): CHA+1, {Defensive Roll}, (CHA=26)
SD 29: Shadowdancer(6) {Hide in Plain Sight}
So 30: Sorcerer(23): Epic Spell: Hellball, Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor

Skillpoints 164
Hide: 32, MS: 32, Tumble: 30, Concentration: 33 Spellcraft: 33 and 4 left over

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 6:56 AM 

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Joined: 02 Dec 2015

personal opinion, hellball isn't worth it. in pve it tends to rock your summons, in pvp it blows up people that don't matter (i have 13 fort and 180 hp!), and people that do matter take like 60 dmg from it as it's standard to gear resist for most of it.



................. EXCEPT if you want it for style. Which overrides all other concerns.

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Carvelan
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 7:02 AM 

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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Location: Dark side of the moon!

Just doesn't know what to pick instead. Maybe Epic skill focus:Hide maybe?

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 7:11 AM 

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Joined: 02 Dec 2015

drop toughness and empower, and imo plan your spell selection so you have good nukes on your levels. I don't think it's needed; there are good options for maximized.

maximized ball lightning is fantastic, and so are things like maximized acid fog with conj focus, or maximized wall of fire with evo focus. as a sorc you can just learn spells with your metamagics in mind. do you really need empower AND maximize? on a sorc? I say no, you get more benefit out of extra die on a shitload of spells for free via spell foci.

imo go conj evo. remember necro doesn't do anything atm except extra saves that really don't matter (most are fort so fights that matter people will just have 40+ fort vs spells) and plenty of people re-skin the dragon knight into a dracolich, so you still get an undead buddy if you go DK, or still go MD and just have a 24 minute pharaoh, the extended duration is not needed.

thats my two cents. as a sorc toss out that maximized saveless damage with 3 extra die save vs status effects the epic foci offer. you just get more versatility by making more spells viable via spell foci. seriously, max evo and max conj acid fog and wall of fire into a maximized hand will slay, with no save, in 9 seconds.

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Carvelan
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 7:36 AM 

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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Location: Dark side of the moon!

So swap empower, toughens and hell ball for conj and switch necro for evo?

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Commie
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 16:56 PM 

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thats just my two cents. illusion is also a good choice as the new illusion spells allow you to do A LOT with less spell slots; the new 'cone of cold' is really slick and is a will save.

if i was to make a sorc at this moment i'd go either conj/evo, or conj/illusion, though illusion is a lot spicer.

remember shadow conj and lesser shadow conj just got big changes. web and shadow acid arrow are now great damage, and shadow globe of invul is now minutes a level with epic. theres a TON of flexability in there and that's what you need as a sorc. And they didn't even do 'shades' yet so more on the way!

just make sure you plan your spells known. take full advantage of the new changes with the schools you pick. Acid fog, the shadow conj spells, haste/mass haste, wall of fire, etc, are all really good with the appropriate spell school.

i'd sit back, look at the sorc spell list, and make a few versions, one if you pick one set of schools and another if you pick a different one. and remember, imo, you really don't 'need' multiple damage spells on a level, aside from IGMS, so do you NEED another 9th level nuke if you already have maximized acid fog AND missile swarm? Nope.

just plan plan plan, it will pay off.

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The1Kobra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 27 2017, 23:25 PM 

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Personally, I'd recommend the starting stats of 8/13/14/14/8/17, loses 1 CHA and you keep the requisite dex score, but it gives you +4 CON and your sorc will be starved for HP if you go 10 CON and ditch toughness. Means your CHA ends at 2 less but you get another epic feat to spend.

Hellball is a good tool for large party PvP if you use it right. Using it in tandem with Greater ruin can win most fights in a single round, especially if you pull stunts with timestop.

A human can get away with two foci. Necromancy is a decent focus, it doesn't only have fort save spells, but it also has the will-save based fear. If you do pick two foci, you'll probably want spells that cover each of the saves. It's hard to make them all 40+ at once.

Still, I tend to miss empower on my SD/sorc at times.

The other thing to consider is that your SD/sorc won't have the spell penetration of a more pure sorc, so may run into issues against foes with SR. It's manageable with a SP focus item (25 total penetration) against 32 SR foes (and there are a bunch of those), but anything with a higher SR is going to give you some trouble.

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Carvelan
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 28 2017, 9:05 AM 

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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Location: Dark side of the moon!

Okay this is what I'm going with. Now just need some tips on spells I must have besides the obvious buff spells and shadow conjuration ones.

Plain Human
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 10
Wis 8
Int 14
Cha 18

So 01: Sorcerer(1): Extend Spell , Spell Focus: Conjuration
So 02: Sorcerer(2):
So 03: Sorcerer(3): Spell Focus: Illusion
So 04: Sorcerer(4): CHA+1, (CHA=19)
So 05: Sorcerer(5)
So 06: Sorcerer(6): Maximize Spell
So 07: Sorcerer(7)
So 08: Sorcerer(8): CHA+1, (CHA=20)
So 09: Sorcerer(9): G Spell Focus: Conjuration
So 10: Sorcerer(10)
So 11: Sorcerer(11)
So 12: Sorcerer(12): CHA+1, G Spell Focus: Illution , (CHA=21)
So 13: Sorcerer(13)
So 14: Sorcerer(14)
So 15: Sorcerer(15): Dodge
So 16: Sorcerer(16): CHA+1, (CHA=22)
So 17: Sorcerer(17)
So 18: Sorcerer(18): Mobility
So 19: Sorcerer(19)
So 20: Sorcerer(20): CHA+1, (CHA=23)
So 21: Sorcerer(21): Epic Spell: Mummy Dust
R 22: Ranger(1): Epic Spell Focus: Conjuration {Dual Wield}
SD 23: Shadowdancer(1):
So 24: Sorcerer(22): CHA+1, Epic Spell: Greater Ruin, (CHA=24)
SD 25: Shadowdancer(2): {Darkvision, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge I}
SD 26: Shadowdancer(3)
SD 27: Shadowdancer(4): Greater Charisma I (CHA=25)
SD 28: Shadowdancer(5): CHA+1, {Defensive Roll}, (CHA=26)
SD 29: Shadowdancer(6) {Hide in Plain Sight}
So 30: Sorcerer(23): Epic Spell Focus: Illusion, Epic Spell: Epic Mage Armor

Skillpoints 164
Hide: 32, MS: 32, Tumble: 30, Concentration: 33 Spellcraft: 33 and 4 left over

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thunderbrush
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 28 2017, 13:12 PM 



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Joined: 12 Nov 2015
Location: The belly of the beast

Umm. Well. Being a Sorcerer, you have sone things to consider. Without an investment in spot, I would choose see invis rather than true seeing and just pack ultravision as a low lvl spell. Shadowshield. Protection From spells. I would avoid premonition, as with SD lvl you are trying to avoid being hit. Evards Tentacles. Where it gets dicey is your Lvl 7, 8 and 9 spells. Very, very limited. Somewhere you want to pack in mantles and breeches. I recommend either lesser or regular mantle. Use Mords as your breech. It's a lvl 9, but is a must have especially for counter spelling. You will Want BBoD. So. That leaves one lvl 9 spell. Timestop or Weird. For leveling up to giants I say Weird, with the BoT variant activated. Endgame, Timestop. Timestop in conjunction with ruin and hell ball are bad. Throw some tentacles in there and people will have a bad day. Weird and almost every other save or die spell become useless in epics. To include phantasmal killer. You will 100% get more use out of an empowered/maximised color spray. That spell is devastating when fighting giants. You may or may not opt to take prismatic spray. It's evocation, however you get a really cool RNG death effect. Honestly, anything else is flavor.. Oh. Blackstaff. This spell along with mass haste will make you quite popular.

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