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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 29 2017, 21:32 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Hi all,

I've been thinking about a few builds, and ideas, and since this idea I'm thinking of requires pretty much 'rogue', I was thinking about trying something. Since most 'rogue skills' are exactly that, skills, I'm thinking about making it a dex WM, 13/10/7, since they tend to get quite a few skill points that could be put into rogue skills. But, since I've never tried this, I'd like you guys to have a look over my build, whether I did any glaring mistakes.

So, race would be standard human, and weapon would be a shortsword. (mostly RP behind this, though any concealable weapon would work here)

13 Rogue, 10 Fighter, 7 Weapon Master

Abilities:
10 str
18 dex
12 con
8 wis
14 int
10 cha

I'm thinking 12 con, for the extra hp and fort save, but I'd still have to gear a bit of strength. I think I'll manage it, but I'm not 100% sure...

Skills, I'd want to go 32 disc, 4 intimidate, 30 tumble, 30 UMD, 33 hide, 33 MS, and the rest going into the 'thief/rogue skills' (open lock, disable trap, etc). Here, I don't think I'm forgetting anything important, but I'm not sure.

I'm not sure what the best pre-epic spread is. I'm thinking 9/7/4, for the extra ab, at the loss of only 1 fort.

As for feats:
Pre-epic: Dodge, Mobiliy, WF, Weapon Spec, Expertise, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Weapon Finesse, KD, IKD, Blind Fight, and two more... I'm thinking I could go Luck of Heroes and Great Fort to balance the low fort, which seems like the best idea, but I'm open to any and all ideas.
Epic: EWF, Great Dex I, Epic Weapon Spec, Armor Skin (?), Epic Dodge

I'm thinking with a base 16 fort, it wouldn't hurt to go up to 19, leaving me with easier gearing, since I won't need to get as much +saves. Will, I give up on trying to save that, it's always going to be terrible. But that's what mind blanks are for, eh?


Now, I think I thought of everything, but I'd like to take some input. Any suggestions on what I could do instead, or if I missed anything?


 
      
Raua
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 29 2017, 21:48 PM 

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Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Location: The Land of >9000 Lakes (GMT -6)

One of the more 'optimal' Pre epic spreads is something along the lines of: 4 Rogue/9 Fighter/7 WM for Maximum BaB and feats.

Speaking of feats, WHERE'S IMPROVED CRIT?! I'd definitely Recommend Strong Soul in lieu of Luck of Heroes in this case, for as good of saves as possible. (You don't need the extra reflex on this build :P)

Aside from that, I'd say get some spellcraft for saves against spells, even though it's cross-class, it's still worth it.

Otherwise this looks fine to me. :P

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 29 2017, 22:07 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Alright, I'll take that spread.

So, should I take (as the two extra feats) great fort and impcrit then? I didn't think of that.

And for spellcraft, would that really make a difference? I mean, I need a +20 in fort anyway, or very close to it, I'd have base+dex mod of 31 reflex, which seems like it'd be solved by a fort cloak and maybe one or two reflex saves on items, if that even is neccessary with improved evasion.

Thanks for the input. :D


 
      
Raua
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 29 2017, 22:28 PM 

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Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Location: The Land of >9000 Lakes (GMT -6)

Mostly, the Spellcraft is for your piss-poor willsave. I mean, you'd be looking at an 11 For a willsave, you could easily get +3 Vs Spells with 15 Spellcraft. It's not much But it's something! And with your abundance of skillpoints, I don't see a compelling reason as to why not, unless it's part of the character! :P

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Fri, Sep 29 2017, 23:24 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

I'll think about it. Mostly, I'm unsure, I want him to have rogue skills'n'stuff... But you are right, especially when I might possibly get spellcraft on gear, thus raising my saves even more. And for reflex, it might take off a 10% chance...


 
      
Cyan
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 12:58 PM 

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Joined: 11 Feb 2014

robbi320 wrote:
especially when I might possibly get spellcraft on gear, thus raising my saves even more.


might wait for a more proficient nwn rules guru to chime in, but i don't think that works. i think it's only base ranks ie; 15 ranks + 5 bonus = 20 but would still only give +3 saves. again, i'm no expert so waiting for clarification is advisable.


 
      
Falling Spider
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 13:06 PM 

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Joined: 29 Mar 2009

Items count last I checked. Unless something was changed on Amia specifically.
However I do think spellcraft is 'trained' which means you need actual ranks in it for items and int bonus to effect it.

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Tarnus
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 13:22 PM 

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Joined: 28 Aug 2015

Yes, you need to have at least 1 point in spellcraft or gear won't do anything. That being said, differently from tumble, gear and attribute does indeed work for the increase to saves.

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That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 13:27 PM 

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Joined: 13 Nov 2014

Hey Robbi!

Okay, first... and this might get a lot of people in an uproar: You don't need discipline on this build. You will get nothing from STR here, so you have to use a lot of slots to get into the 70+ good range. Your AC with good gear should be 60 + haste, mage armor, etc etc (59 if you don't opt for a tower shield). Most won't hit you with that and Epic Dodge.

For reference: Roach has 2 discipline, and that's because I geared her to 14 STR. Even in duels, she got KD'd maybe 5 times in total, and she never lost a duel for it. In RL fights (hehe, RL), your "roguey character" might not have been trained to stand his ground and fight, most rogues don't work that way. Don't get me wrong, he could! But, doesn't have to. So there's rp behind it too. Not sure on your char, but saying you wanted a "concealed" weapon makes me think more shady, less militaristic.

Spellcraft. Yup, just get it to 13. Why 13? You have 14 INT so that makes a solid 15. There are rings that add +10 spellcraft, you can mythal whatever you like on them in addition. There are gloves too, +30, or Djinn ones at +15. The Spellcraft on items ADDS to your saves, but, yes, you do have to put some points in and yes, it is cross class. So with 15 natural, and +50 from gear, you effectively add 13 to your saves. And you will need that for your will saves, trust me! It never huts to have 50 fort vs spells either, lol.

Buuut, if you take my Discipline advice, you have 33 more skill points.

Anyway, enjoy one of the more powerful, hard to kill builds on Amia.


 
      
robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 14:05 PM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Actually, you're right. Discipline wouldn't really fit, and I just added it out of habit. So I'll think on spellcraft a bit, I'm unsure, but my primary concern of skill points is lessened a bit.

It's just a weird thing: It never seemed like a good idea to go without discipline, but the math actually would say it's not too neccessary. Like, at 60 AC, most builds won't be likely to hit me, especially with the -4 from KD...

Thanks for the help!


 
      
zavier
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 17:57 PM 



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Joined: 27 Jun 2010

I did this build for Akoni.. its been fun and versatile

(Chultan Race)

Abilities:

Str: 12
Dex: 16 (18 after +2)
Con: 16
Wis: 8
Int: 14
Cha: 8 (6 after -2)

1: F1: Blind Fight, Dodge, Weapon Finess
2: F2: Weapon Focus
3: F3: Toughness or Great Fortitude
4: F4: Dex +1 (19), Mobility
5: F5:
6: F6: Spring Attack, Expertise
7: F7:
8: F8: Dex +1 (20), Whirlwind Attack
9: Ro1: Knockdown, 4 Intimidate here, Max Tumble/UMD here.
10: WM1: Weapon of Choice
11: WM2:
12: WM3: Dex +1 (21), Improved Crit
13: WM4:
14: WM5:
15: WM6: Improved Knockdown
16: WM7: Dex +1 (Dex 22)
17: Ro2: Evasion
18: F9: Weapon Specialization
19: Ro3: Uncanny Dodge
20: Ro4: Dex +1 (Dex 23)
21: Ro5: Great Dex I (Dex 24)
22: Ro6:
23: Ro7:
24: Ro8: Dex +1 (Dex 25) Armor Skin
25: Ro9:
26: Ro10: Improved Evasion
27: Ro11: Epic Weapon Focus
28: Ro12: Dex +1 (Dex 26)
29: Ro13: Defensive Roll
30: F10: Epic Dodge, Epic Weapon Specialization, Max Discipline


 
      
Cyan
 
PostPosted: Sat, Sep 30 2017, 19:18 PM 

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Joined: 11 Feb 2014

Tarnus wrote:
Yes, you need to have at least 1 point in spellcraft or gear won't do anything. That being said, differently from tumble, gear and attribute does indeed work for the increase to saves.


thank you for clarifying! an old dog can learn new tricks :P


 
      
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