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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25 2017, 4:36 AM 

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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Hello guys!

I've been considering to make a return the past weeks, but to do it as a new character. I want said character to be a blackguard or divine champion, and it should preferably be strong in PvE.

So far, I discovered this build as a starting point, but I heard Black Guards are stronger when focused on charisma?

+2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence.

Ranger10/BG16/Rogue4

STR 16 [25]
DEX 14
CON 10
WIS 14
INT 10
CHA 14

01: -Rogue(01): PA
02: Ranger(01)
03: Ranger(02): Cleave
04: Ranger(03): STR+1 [STR=17]
05: Ranger(04)
06: Ranger(05): WF: Handaxe
07: Rogue(02)
08: Blackguard(01): STR+1 [STR=18]
09: Blackguard(02): GCleave
10: Ranger(06)
11: Ranger(07)
12: Blackguard(03) DM STR+1 [STR=19]
13: Ranger(08):
14: Ranger(09)
15: Blackguard(04) DS
16: Blackguard(05): STR+1 [STR=20]
17: Rogue(03)
18: Blackguard(06): IC: Handaxe
19: Blackguard(07):
20: Blackguard(08): STR+1 [STR=21]
21: Blackguard(09): EWF: Handaxe
22: Blackguard(10):
23: Blackguard(11):
24: Blackguard(12): GS I, STR+1 [STR 23]
25: Blackguard(13): Overwhelming Critical
26: Blackguard(14):
27: Rogue(04): GS II [STR=24]
28: Blackguard(15): STR+1 [STR=25]
29: Blackguard(16): EFS
30: Ranger(10): Dev Crit

BAB: 24
AB dual mundane Handaxes: 32/27/22/17 and 32/27
AC: 21 mundane Hide Armor

Fort: 20 [26 max CHA]
Ref: 17 [23 max CHA]
Will: 15 [21 max CHA]

Skills 128: Discipline 33, Tumble 30, Spot 33, 32 left.

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Mrlala
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25 2017, 9:51 AM 



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Joined: 22 May 2009

Hello hello!

I've never really made a blackguard but I've heard these builds are awesome for 'em!

Epic dodger: 13 rogue/ 1 monk or fighter (for cleave or free feat)/ 16 BG
If you don't have 14str you can take the monk class for free cleave.

Str BG: 10-12 fighter/ 2-4 rogue/ 16 BG
dev crit evilness with or without evasion

Tanky BG: 4 bard/ 10 PM/ 16 BG
can change this up for: 5bard/ 12pm/ 13BG
you''ll lose epic fiend but gain more AC from tumble dump and 12pm. Eitherway, you'll be crit immune!

Save and Wrather!: 13rogue/ 10 Divine champion/ 7 BG
alot of saves, use divine wrath if you have some charisma. Can always switch up how much rogue or bg u get.

Funny build: 10 ranger/ 10 SD/ 10 BG
'cos why not? Epic dodger with HiPS and decent AB


 
      
Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25 2017, 20:49 PM 

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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Mrlala wrote:
Hello hello!
Str BG: 10-12 fighter/ 2-4 rogue/ 16 BG
dev crit evilness with or without evasion


Thanks!

What's the stats spread for this one? are the custom spell widgets still not worth it?

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Mrlala
 
PostPosted: Mon, Dec 25 2017, 21:51 PM 



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Joined: 22 May 2009

Like I said, I haven't really played BG. So I don't know if the spells are any good or useful. With 16 BG levels the spells look to be worth it in my honest opinion. But it's just a opinion of one who plays very bad builds all the time..

Statswise can be your choice, whichever direction you want to go!

Like..

1: 16 STR/ 8 DEX/ 12 Con/ 12 Int/ 14 Cha/ 14 Wis
No dev crit but sturdy either way. Since you have 14 wis that qualifies you for abyssal might and combined with a panthers potion is all the dex you'll ever need
You can also switch str and cha up if you want to go more smitey.

2: 18 Str/ 8 Dex/ 14 Con/ 10 Int/ 8 Wis/ 14 Cha
you can always switch up the charisma and con abit with wisdom.


There are many more options but I'm tired.. There's a big build forum list for all classes in here; viewtopic.php?f=143&t=82155

Have fun with it!

Best regards,
Lala


 
      
Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 02 2018, 15:04 PM 

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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Rough Draft of the build I'll go for:

Classes: 16 Black Guard, 10 rogue, 4 fighter

Race: Human

Abilities:
Strength 18 (26)
Dexterity 8
Constitution 8
Wisdom 14
Intelligence 10
Charisma 14

Skillpoints:
Hide 5
Tumble 30
Discipline 33
112 Remaining Points

leveling:
1 Rogue
2 Fighter
3 Fighter
4 Fighter *
5 Rogue
6 Rogue
7 Rogue
8 - 18 Black Guard (1-10)
19-20 Rogue
21-26 Black Guard (11-15)
27 Fighter *
28 Rogue
29 Rogue**
30 Black Guard (16)**

* You want to take as many fighter lvls pre-20 as possible, for the highest possible attack bonus.
** For the last few levels the only thing your order of lvling affects is how many skillpoints you can allocate at every skill.
***Pick the last fighter lvl at a lvl you get a general feat, that way you can get both weapon and epic weapon spec.

Pre-epic feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Divine Might, Divine Shield, Knockdown, Blindfight, weapon focus, improved critical, 1 Human Free (I spent this one on toughness, couldn't manage to spend it on extra turning, but with messing around with the class order you might be)

Epic feats: EWF, Great Strength 1, Overwhelming, Weapon Spec
Fighter: Epic Weapon Spec
Rogue: Crippling Strike
Blackguard: Armor Skin, Epic Fiendish Servant

Stats:
HP 230 (260 with toughness)
Base attack 23
Fortitude 18
Reflex 15
Will 15
Base AC 17

EDIT: One can also drop the strength down to 17, spent the ability points elsewhere and spend a feat on epic prowess instead, and lose out on one damage point.

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thetangerinetornado
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jan 02 2018, 22:06 PM 

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Joined: 18 Oct 2016

I have largely the same build. Same classes, largely the same feats, largely the same abilities. Only difference is I went DEX based so a bit more AC and Weapon Finesse. Overall it's fine and dandy in a party and flanks like a boss, but harder if you are soloing these days.

One thing to keep in mind is that the 1st Tier Fiend will be largely useless from Character Level 16 or so until you upgrade. The BG progression in your build has you on the 1st fiend from Character Level 12 to 26 and it's just not going to be good those last 8-10 levels. Switching to the Undead summon might help for tanking but keep in mind they don't do any damage to speak of.

I kinda stalled out in the high teens when it became hard to snag a party but if you have at least one buddy to work with you'll like it.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 14:37 PM 

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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Southern Florida

Hello friend,

BG Is one of those classes that is very difficult to make good for builders and players alike. On amia it suffers tremendously from it's multiple ability dependency due to the fact that for some unthinkable reason the dev team has not just made its spells charisma based yet. So as a build you have one of two choices here:

1 - go 20 STR, 18 CHA, and 14 WIS at 30 to get you solid damage and AC out of your divine feats. This build makes me itchy because I don't like how it PvP's but that's because I don't like builds with less than 46 AB. Bless/aid/divine favor potions help mitigate the ab problems but frankly as a blackguard you already have a buffing problem so it's a bit of a pain as far as PvP goes. However you do get Abyssal might which is fun, and some of the BG Spells have been buffed to make the class a little more competative. Being able to give yourself 50% concealment is incredibly nice for example, and saves you a lot on wands. The utility of it is kind of nice but can be compensated for with UMD.

This build has the ability to reach the dodge AC cap though, which is incredibly nice in dungeons and the like. +5 boots, +4 haste, +1 mage armor, +10 divine shield. That's +20 ac on top of the base 55 ac, putting you at a good 65 AC. 70 ac if you take expertise for the purposes of epic tanking like I've done on that build in the past. It's nice and I will openly admit that.

And it gets some hefty damage. Sneak attacking and critting with divine might on Gerald I had managed to do 130+ damage in the past and it was a good feeling. I just always get leery about a build with 45 AB. That said you get Divine Favor up to +4 with BG levels 16+, so you get to pump your AB up to 49. Combine that with bless/aid and you've got 51 ab. Or you could truestrike for even more AB.

So that build has it's strengths. The spells are fun, the ability to tank really reliably and do a lot of damage to shifters who have physical immunity (who get really pissed off when they realize you're hurting their golem lol) and pump up to 65 or 70 ac is really nice.


What other options do we have?

Well, let's take a look at tossing out utility for offense. 18 STR, going to 26 at 30. Sure it's +3 ab but that's really not to be discounted at the high level meta in my humble opinion. 48 attack bonus is nice. Toss that on with the +4 from divine favor and you're at a whopping 52, 54 if you drink bless and aid as well. It's an offensive power house with devastating critical and Aura of Despair pumping the DC up to a respectable 41.

What are the cons of it? Well it doesn't get the fun BG spells so there's that. The lack of charisma (12 base, 24 buffed/geared totaling to +7 mod) makes it less of a significant contributor to AC and Damage than you might like. On this build it would definitely be more of a "let's toss on divine might for extra damage" tool, and maybe extra ac if you're in the mood for it. You want dev crit on this build. It's a good way to fish out people who haven't figured out how to build yet (which tends to be a surprising number of them) or eek out a win if you get lucky against someone who has. Dev crit, as much as I hate admitting it, wins fights.

So between the two you're deciding between higher use as a general purpose build that can still certainly PvP if you figure out a good rotation and buff well in advance, or a build that can just jump in the fight with divine favor if it doesn't want to buff and still have a reasonable chance of success because its aura gives it a higher dev crit.

Both builds are good, and color me stupid but I actually like the first build better. It's more fun to play. Is it as effective? Not in pvp which is what I generally take into consideration. I will openly admit that I think the dev crit build is more mechanically powerful but Blackguard just isn't as fun without getting a lot out of its toys for me.

Anyway next I'll post builds for both of these. There is also the elusive DEX Blackguard which I can and have build and offers some solid options for defense I guess but I personally feel requires you to spread your stats out more than I'm comfortable recommending. In short: lots of fun for dungeons, hell even probably okay for pvp but really not this player's first choice.


Anyway I just woke up so this post may not be coherant. I'll crunch numbers later.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 14:57 PM 

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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Southern Florida

Shadowfiend wrote:
Abilities:
Strength 18 (26)
Dexterity 8
Constitution 8
Wisdom 14
Intelligence 10
Charisma 14



Rule 1: 14+ con or don't play it

That's me but I'm gonna toss a o build or two on here and see what you think.

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freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 18:31 PM 

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Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Location: Deutschland

I hate to sound like a min maxer, but Bob is right; 8 Con is gonna end you with a LOT of frustration...

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 19:34 PM 

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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Damn, wish you had told me this sooner, well, lvl 6 is easy enough to catch up with.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 20:37 PM 

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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Southern Florida

Yeah you can get that in an hour if someone helps you

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 07 2018, 22:34 PM 

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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

bobofwestoregonusa wrote:
Hello friend,
1 - go 20 STR, 18 CHA, and 14 WIS at 30 to get you solid damage and AC out of your divine feats.


What about con? you can't get 14 con on this build as a human, at least.

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