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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 30 2018, 3:16 AM 

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It has not been approved yet, might never happen, but I'm thinking about Saya turning warlock. I checked what needed to be there on her build and what needed to be changed, and I came down to the observation that I have a free feat. Some options are available to me... and I'm actually curious to know what people think.

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Preface:
Quote:
Saya is a character with a lot of luggage when it comes to what she needs to have as feats - things that actually limit her actual potential. Same goes for ability scores. I am fully aware of what makes her suck, and the core stuff I put on her tend to be immovable. So yes, she sucks, but there are stuff that needs to stay on her regardless even if they make little to no sense on a warlock.


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Ability Score:
Quote:
Str 10
Dex 26
Con 10
Wis 10
Int 14
Cha 16

Wouldn't make much sense to change her stats. DEX based warlock is a thing, from what I gathered... whether it's better than crowd control one is left to be determined though.


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Builds:
Quote:
Pre-Epic:
Warlock 20 (maxing out BAB, losing skill points, but it's not a problem)

Epic:
Warlock 26/ Rogue 2 / Ranger 1


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Feats:
Quote:
Pre-Epic Feats:
- Strong Soul
- Weapon finesse
- Exotic Weapon Prof
- Weapon Focus: Kama (Yes, fully aware those three feats are pretty meh to a warlock)
- Blindfight
- Expertise
- Improved Expertise


Epic Feats:
- Armor Skin
- Great Dex 1
- Eldritch Mastery
- Epic Fortitude
- ???
- Epic Weapon Focus: Kama (Ranger)
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Options for the remaining feat:

1) Epic Prowess:
Epic prowess does not help with the eldritch blast hit DC. It however helps her kama attacks.. which she might not end up using that often, considering the blast is always available.

2) Great charisma or Great Dexterity 2:

It would put Saya at 17 base charisma or 27 dexterity. This could potentially free one mithal slot on her gear to get something like +3 to fortitude (which is 1 point higher than if I went Great Fortitude).

3) Warlock Damage reduction custom feat:

At level 26 warlock, it would give her +5 to damage reduction. On the one hand because her HP is abysmal it limits the potential of that feat.. On the other hand, her HP is abysmal, so having some sort of reduction to attacks that do hit her would definitely not hurt! Coupled with items, this could get to 10 damage resist to all three sources of physical attacks, which is starting to be quite noticeable. Could even throw in Wounding Whispers in there.

4) Warlock's elemental resistance custom feat:

At level 26 warlock, this would give her +10 to two elemental sources of my choice. Is that really that useful though?

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Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
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Last edited by Mushidoz on Tue, Dec 04 2018, 14:31 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 04 2018, 14:30 PM 

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Well.. that's a pretty big line up coming here to comment!... lol

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freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 04 2018, 16:22 PM 

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... I .... I mean, I'm a RP-Builder but that build makes my eyes bleed.

In my honest opinion, all of your options are absolutely useless and it won't matter which one you take if you choose one of them.

Just... (Right now i am fuming, so my words got changed to a rhyme so soothing. I am huffing and puffing and let IT all out, so give me a hug while i sit here and pout) grab Epic Reflex or even Epic thoughness

Or Epic Skill Focus: Concentration. You know. For casting in Combat. Or Discipline to not get thrown down.

Actually, let me sell Epic Skill Focus: Discipline from an RP point of view:

Saya is fast.
And moves fast.
You even had spring attack on her because of that at some point, if I remember correctly.
So it'd make sense that people would have a hard time pushing her over.



You could... At least scrape *SOME* Dex off of that... Put it into Con.

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 04 2018, 17:23 PM 

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I am not sure, but I don't think warlocks get dmg reduction feats. Instead it's emulated by item properties.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 04 2018, 19:44 PM 

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freaxxshow1338 wrote:
... I .... I mean, I'm a RP-Builder but that build makes my eyes bleed.

In my honest opinion, all of your options are absolutely useless and it won't matter which one you take if you choose one of them.

Just... (Right now i am fuming, so my words got changed to a rhyme so soothing. I am huffing and puffing and let IT all out, so give me a hug while i sit here and pout) grab Epic Reflex or even Epic thoughness

Or Epic Skill Focus: Concentration. You know. For casting in Combat. Or Discipline to not get thrown down.

You could... At least scrape *SOME* Dex off of that... Put it into Con.


Thanks for the reply :D There's a couple things to say about it though :p

Saya's build is a mess, yeah. So many things that are beyond sub-optimal, but yet there for RP reason (the Kama weapon being the most obvious offender). I know how to powergame, and I know all of Saya's current and future problems, yeah (no detect skills, no concentration, kama, being elf rather than human, no damage, low AB, low HP, low forti, etc.)

Pertaining to your suggestions:

- Saya already has loads of reflex, so epic reflex is definately not Worth it. Same goes for Will, since being feytouched + bard already gives her a pretty decent score in it.

- Epic toughness gives 20 hp. Regular toughness would give 29. Is 29 HP really Worth wasting a feat on? Assuming Saya gets hit twice per round and takes 30 dmg a hit (stats are she usually gets hit once per 5-6-7 rounds rather), with the warlock dmg resist feat that'd mean she gets to save 10 HP per round. Her HP would deplete in 3-4 rounds at that ratio, so she'd save 40 HP with the dmg resist feat, considering she gets hit twice per round - which she doesn't. That 29 HP would factor in a little if I get bursted down by big damage spells like greater ruin though.. but passing from 180 or so HP to 209 won't be that noticeable regardless I think.

- Epic concentration: Well, first and foremost, Saya has -NO- concentration. I would like to get some points in it, but it'd be going against the character a bit. She's absolutely unfocused, gets taunted by about anything and everything (like a child), and so I decided not to get concentration at all. Even if I did, though, bard spells are not really casted during battles (at least not the ones Saya uses). Neither are Warlock's, obviously. Concentration as a skill, for Saya, would thus only be useful to not get interrupted of casting during areas with environmental hazards (which the warlock elemental resist would cover better and more effectively). Not Worth wasting a feat on.

- Epic Discipline: +10 to discipline is 99% of the time useless to Saya. Discipline only comes in help when someone uses knockdown-like abilities on you... which is about never happening. I don't do pvp, I don't like pvp (I've given my fair share of dedication to that already and moved passed it now), and honestly anyone fighting Saya will beat her through every other means possible without needing to Knock her down to begin with.

- As a warlock, dex will increase your eldritch blast touch DC. I'm not lowering her dex, nah. Con is incredibly low though, I agree. Still don't see myself increasing that one, even if having high DC for the status effects on the blasts would be sweet (and I can only do that by increasing charisma).


You've given me food for thought though.. Getting Epic Skill Focus: Taunt COULD be interesting... except she likely won't be on the front line as much if I'm using eldritch blasts.

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freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Tue, Dec 04 2018, 23:06 PM 

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You only need to hit Touch AC. You don't need that much Dex. It's simple as that, especially if you don't PvP. It is simply unnecessary.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 05 2018, 18:17 PM 

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Even in pvp it's rarely necessary since natural armor, armor, and most other forms of AC don't apply to touch ac. Losing 10 or more ac to touch attacks is pretty devastating.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 05 2018, 19:36 PM 

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There's also the option of getting dodge...

I honestly don't see a clear option for that remaining feat. Character's bad, will remain bad no matter what, but at least that one last feat's there to help push the character towards "not -as- bad". Just unsure which to get.

As for going for dex.. I'd very much prefer going high charisma to have high DCs for the status effects. The thing is, however, that I do not see Saya getting lower dex than what she has now. She's -forever- had this high dexterity, it is just part of her physicality at that point. She's a petite, agile, elfette. Same reason I'm stuck with wielding kamas / claws on her - she's forever been using those, to the point she even were weapon master with them not-that-long ago. On the bright side, that means her AC will remain high.

64 AC + 10 from improved expertise makes for a more than decent AC score, allowing her to go front row in cases where "tanking" needs to be done (and the build d├ęcisions that makes me get sub-optimal feats will at least be useful in those cases).

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 05 2018, 19:48 PM 

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Since you can't take epic dodge on this build anyway why not reduce your dex score by 2-4 points to invest in some much needed constitution and get beefy so you can get more hit points out of the deal? I think it would help you a lot as far as survival goes.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Dec 05 2018, 20:56 PM 

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Because by design and RP, Saya is NOT meant to be beefy. I am not lowering her dex to put it into charisma, so I'm definately not going to do it for constitution either. Several things I could do to Saya that would make her more viable, but sadly those are stuck because of RP (as I said on the opener). I am just wondering what to do with the last feat I have, rest is pretty much stuck as is.

Saya is about as good as she can be with the heavy RP restrictions she's got on her.. but these RP restrictions aren't leaving. They're part of the character, even if it makes her pretty bad.

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Account Name: Karnak_71
Character Name: Hanamori Saya
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526


 
      
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