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[ 16 posts ] |
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Wed, Sep 30 2015, 21:18 PM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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From what I've gathered it seems opinions vary a bit on this soo...
What's it take for a character to allowed to under go an alignment shift?
Should alignment shifts be requested in the request forms?
What should be taken in to account when trying to shift a character's alignment?
_________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour"It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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Anatida
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Posted: Wed, Sep 30 2015, 21:59 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Sep 2011 Location: Texas Y'all
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I am a little unsure if you are asking for our opinions, or how it is currently done. So I'll just write both.
MY OPINION:
I believe character alignment points should be shifted by a DM on the spot for character actions. However, I realize this doesn't take into account all of the RP that happens when a DM isn't present to see it. I still believe this can work, as I am also a proponent of the philosophy that a DM is always a DM, even when they are playerside. Thus our DMs are pretty spread out, and I think most PCs are observed in one manner or another frequently.
HOW IT WORKS (to my understanding):
Alignment shifts do have to be requested. Is your question if they should be done publicly on the request forum, or privately? This is (and should remain) at the discretion of the player in question.
While it took me a while to wrap my brain around it fully, I agree with the DMs stance that a character's actions over a period of time determine their alignment. The intentions don't matter, only the act itself. I swear to you I am using this example because a DM used it in someone's alignment request, and it has nothing to do with your PC! A person who negotiates with a demon, earns evil "points" for the act, regardless of their intentions for doing so. For a neutral aligned person the slide might not be so severe, for a LG character it would most likely cause a fall.
_________________ Iim'mur'ss - Grandmaster Shadowdancer / Aaralyn - Diplomat / Oleander - Toxic Desert Flower
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Thu, Oct 01 2015, 1:53 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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From what I read in exhausted deeds and book of vile darkness and what I've seen actions get ignored quite a bit IMO. It seems like as it stands alignment shifting is a big hastle for the team to go through if the player doesn't want to go in one direction or anouther.
No offense taken as I know there was a bigger action at play. I also under stand that how a player has their character commit an action can easily manipulated the out come of the action. Such as a character that's neutral but the player wants to come across as good.
_________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour"It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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Mercedes
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Posted: Thu, Oct 01 2015, 4:01 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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I don't shift people for their actions nearly as much as I want to or should, which may change, due mostly in part because it's pretty common to act outside ones alignment in an overt fashion on accident or due to someone's interpretation. Many evil types for example may not see the thing they're doing as evil when it certainly is. Chaos and Law are the big things I often want to nudge on and don't.
The best way to get your alignment changed is to commit to it. Make a request or simply make your idea known and you can be ssure that folks up top will start seeing actions as intentional and not random. Then it doesn't feel like we are punishing people for actions and more like ... aiding in a desired outcome.
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PassionateShadow
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Posted: Thu, Oct 01 2015, 4:08 AM |
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Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2014
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Thanks! That actually helps out a lot and removes a lot of the ambiguity I've been feeling about the whole thing.
_________________ ❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour"It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
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Estara
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Posted: Thu, Oct 01 2015, 14:48 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
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I've never had any trouble with it, but then, I've also always done alignment shift requests privately. Sammy has had over half of the alignments on the grid now, actually.. That's kinda CRAZY.
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Richard_Edmund
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 9:55 AM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2012 Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)
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Go Neutral/Neutral. Then you can be good, bad, orderly and whimsical without persecution!
_________________ Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand
Discord: Bhaalorian#5715
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Silkelock
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 10:05 AM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: Sweden
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While I do shift points on the fly it is a bit of a hassle because if the PC is in a party, the entire group gets it.
_________________ Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.
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Grymia
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 17:55 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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I know from my experience DMing, I only would shift an alignment if it was part of a request, or if the actions of the PC consistantly reflected the new alignment..
It wasn't too long ago I actually ended up more for curiousity's sake copying down a summary note of what was considered VIle/Evil and Exalted/Good from the respective extreme alignment books (Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds respectively).
A friend of mine actually has a simplistic but ultimately very helpful perspective, it may not be exclusive but it makes a lot of sense:
To be good is to be truly selfless.
To be evil is to be truly selfish.
Now , sometimes a good person might be slightly selfish, or an evil person might be slightly selfless... it doesn't instantly change their alignment in and of itself. If it becomes the norm, then perhaps. There is also something else that needs to get taken into account.
Sometimes, playing some of the more extreme alignments can be quite draining on a player, so some lee needs to be taken into account there too although from my experience most if not all DMs have been good about this so it's more a point to keep in mind in a general sense.
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AzureLuna
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 18:43 PM |
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Player
Joined: 26 Jul 2010
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Quote: To be good is to be truly selfless.
To be evil is to be truly selfish. If I could quote this a million times, I would. That's exactly my views on the good-evil spectrum. And it really places things into context for believable characters and a believable world. Evil doesn't have to be moustache-twirly and good doesn't have to be evil-smitey. (In fact, I'd argue that evil-smitey is pretty darn selfish in many many ways. That's a whole other thing though.) These traits are also much easier for DM overseeing to quantify and make a judgment call on with a little feedback from the player. Also this: Richard_Edmund wrote: Go Neutral/Neutral. Then you can be good, bad, orderly and whimsical without persecution! True Neutral takes both pills.
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MazeOfThorns
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 20:22 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2013 Location: Just arrived from Korriban by Fury class Imperial Interceptor
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Quote: To be good is to be truly selfless.
To be evil is to be truly selfish. Bit of a double edged sword and hats off to the DM team for slogging through this with characters that aren't so black and white. Even if the character is being selfless the action still carries weight. Taking possession of a sword with a demon inside for the right/ selfless reason, is still taking possession of a sword with a demon in it. Which is an evil act.
_________________ 2015 Mr. AMIA with the Fabulous Estara ~ 2015 Best Developed SOB Character: Rith'tar
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Grymia
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 20:44 PM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
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True enough Maze, and Mind if I ask why taking a possession of a sword with a Demon in it is an evil act?
From my experience and perspective, it'd come down to intent from there as to if it is an evil act. Now I see the arguement that the Demon's influence can be tempting, but if the intent in taking possession of the sword is to try to cleanse it or destroy the Demon, there is potential for a good act to yet be waged.
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MazeOfThorns
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 23:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Dec 2013 Location: Just arrived from Korriban by Fury class Imperial Interceptor
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Yeah it gets complicated. In this case, the intent was to keep the demon who offered the sword from letting the demon /in/ the sword out to rampage on the material plane.
However, how is the DM to know what the character is thinking without watching them over the next days, weeks? Seeking out a sword with a demon trapped in it specifically to destroy it is very different from agreeing to take possession of the same demon sword when it is offered by another demon.
I suppose it's easier for some characters to shift alignment than others. From personal experience, it's really tough unless the things done in the alignment you want to shift to are so specific there's no doubt they were good or evil.
_________________ 2015 Mr. AMIA with the Fabulous Estara ~ 2015 Best Developed SOB Character: Rith'tar
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Alaria-
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 23:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 11 Jan 2013 Location: Riding the flow of the wind!
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Richard_Edmund wrote: Go Neutral/Neutral. Then you can be good, bad, orderly and whimsical without persecution! That's funny ^^ Because my other elf that was TN got shifted because a DM felt it appropriate. In fact, it is the only time I ever saw alignment point shifts at all!
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CrazyCatLady
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Posted: Fri, Oct 02 2015, 23:57 PM |
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Player
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
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Rania got a point of alignment shift towards chaotic (she is very wrongly at NN atm due to player derpiness when creating her) after she killed a shark that was about to eat a trout (in her defense that shark was far too close to the shore for comfort and could have attacked any innocent swimmer). Yes, her actions were chaotic as she threw off that whole "balance of nature thing" by killing a shark (shooting it full of arrows) as it engaged in it's natural feeding habits, and she did deserve the point. I would love to see more points towards alignments shifts, as I'm a firm believer in playing your alignment and being penalized/rewarded if you deviate.
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Mercedes
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Posted: Sun, Oct 04 2015, 0:07 AM |
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Player
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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I never gave evil points for taking a sword taking it as part of a plea deal with a demon, however ...
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