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#StraightOutaAvernus
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 01 2016, 21:34 PM 

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Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

Too often are good guys sitting around waiting to be a DM reactive force. I propose someone move forth to actively band up these hangarounds under a single banner to:

    > Negotiate with Baddies to Fuck off muh land or Get Stomp'd
    > Organize charity funding events
    > Provide for a less-fortunate's donation pool for folk fresh to the isle!
    > Help bolster cooperation between the surface settlements!
    > Spread sermons of goodly faiths~
    > Keep tabs on the movement of the baddybads in the Deep and Frozenfar
    > Work with all of the DM team to spontaneously make efforts to aid the depressed
    > Help with that famine that no adventurers seem to care about!
    > Try to convince those who are open to convincing to better their ways, understand them!
    > Amend the laws of the various cities with their leaders to be more fair and equal to all!
    > Research new applications for magic that better the common man!
    > Persuade cities to hold annual festivals at the various holidays which are FR canon!
    > Promote higher learning, and spread FR lore to the wider masses!
    > To see that Kohlinghen is no-more an empty husk!
    > To help Winya rise beyond the shackles of its questionable past!
    > Keep the populations of the creatures nearest to the cities in check
    > Permanently deal with instances of the former like those creatures near Bendir!
    > Discourage amoral magic use and purge it where it's found!

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*So, i've got a question for ya.
*do you think even the worst person can change…?
*that everyone can be a good person, if they just try?
*all right.
*well, here's a better question
*do you wanna have a bad time


Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers


 
      
Kudark
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 01 2016, 23:12 PM 

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That's not really centralizing anything, but rather spreading them out. And what makes you think none of this is going on? It amazes me that you think everyone on the server, that's not in your little group, stands around the Dale and does nothing. I'll take it as a compliment that my character's plans are kept well hidden.

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CrazyCatLady
 
PostPosted: Sat, Oct 01 2016, 23:45 PM 

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Kudark wrote:
And what makes you think none of this is going on?.


^ This. Some of us just prefer a more quiet, subtle approach as we don't build for the (sadly to me) far too often jumped to pvp that follows a head on confrontation against evil.

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Overneath
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 0:19 AM 

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Quote:
And what makes you think none of this is going on?


If a plot is built in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? The fact that people are having to ask is the answer to your question.

Subtlety works well enough when there is a danger of investigation. But with the active server population being what it is, hiding your activities from anyone is going to do damage. It prevents the greater whole of good-aligned characters from helping you and prevents the greater whole of evil-aligned characters from opposing you, both of which are necessary to manufacture interest (and, yes, conflict) in your task without DM intervention. And with all of (Six? Five? Fewer?) active DMs we need to start thinking about what it is we can do that will involve other players on our own time. Why exactly are you afraid of broadcasting? People will know that you're doing good things? That someone will bother you? I must have missed something, because I assumed that was the point.

We're past the point when we can be exclusionary about alignments, let alone factions and races. The DMs don't have the manpower to constantly throw villains at us anymore, and it's selfish of us to rely on them for it when we can cooperate instead. Even if our characters disagree, we as players need each other in order to have a game in the first place.

Can we all come together to make our own story without hurt feelings? Can we cooperate and share information to enrich our experience? Can we organize events on both sides, execute them, and lay a better framework for the world on our own merits? I certainly think so. Will it be hard work? Hell yes it will. That's always been the cost of doing something with someone else.

Dismissing someone trying to encourage coming together with 'I'm sitting in my treehouse, why haven't YOU built one' is incredibly poor form right now. We have lost the privilege of a small fundamental core and if we're going to salvage it, it needs to involve as many people as possible. Going solo is how you survive for a week. Teaming up is how you make a civilization for a century.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 1:55 AM 

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Yes, the people who built the plot would hear it.

You are assuming way too much from my question, as you you clearly admitted to. The fact that people are having to ask does not in fact answer the question, and you may note the one asking has a main character that would hopefully not be knowing many of these plans. You are tossing your own opinions into what you think my question is about, when that is not the point of it.

It doesn't matter how small, or active, the player base is, that should not affect the lore and role-play of the server, so yes, there will be racial and alignment exclusions, as it should be. I'm actually tired of seeing all the "we're so small ooc, that we have to make exceptions to the lore ic, to compensate" posts. We are not past any point, and what you suggest will make a server of completely neutral characters, all working together as one happy family, Cosby would be so proud, we would all have Jello pudding, but we all know the game isn't meant to be like that. There has to be conflict, and the game is based around good and evil, it's not real life, and should not be made to emulate that.

If you want to build a treehouse, then do it, no one is stopping you from trying, but they might, but then that would be ic, wouldn't it? Just because some plots do not involve the entire server, does not prevent anyone from helping, or opposing you, it makes it easier for them to be laid open and useless.

Everyone here is welcome to make their own story, and not everyone will be a part of it, or like it. What I'm saying, is that some people are assuming nothing is going on, when they are not a part of it, which does not make it true, unfortunately for the OP. I am not advocating not involving other people, but that does not mean everyone should be involved, there will be exclusions, and that is a simple fact.

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SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 2:11 AM 

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There's no reason to immediately go on the defensive. Nowhere here did the OP imply your characters do nothing but sit in Bendir Dale. You're drawing from the air there.

The intent is clearly meant for the betterment (in their opinion) of the current feel of the server. Please dont bash them with accusations so readily.

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t o u c h e d
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 3:50 AM 

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In response to OP: I was trying to do this! I was doing tons of other things too (some of the things you listed even). But you didn't like my methods, and demonized me and told me to never message you again over stuff that was entirely IC. It seemed like you were really not liking any opposition you had. I'm not trying to start anything here, I'm merely wondering.... What changed? Or did you simply not like my methods? Or are you getting bored?

Would have PM'd but.... not allowed.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 4:20 AM 

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SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:
There's no reason to immediately go on the defensive. Nowhere here did the OP imply your characters do nothing but sit in Bendir Dale. You're drawing from the air there.

The intent is clearly meant for the betterment (in their opinion) of the current feel of the server. Please dont bash them with accusations so readily.

My initial post was not on the defensive, and I never implied it was about my character, please don't assume. My main character is rarely in the Dale these days just hanging out anyway. I'm not bashing anyone for pointing out that things happen on the server, that not everyone is aware of, nor should they be. As far as the list goes, like I said, no one is stopping anyone from rolling up characters, and trying to do those things, hell, we have a sewer guy! How many servers can boast that?

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Bertnard
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 16:27 PM 

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Kudark wrote:
And what makes you think none of this is going on? It amazes me that you think everyone on the server, that's not in your little group, stands around the Dale and does nothing.


Well said indeed.


 
      
#StraightOutaAvernus
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 20:54 PM 

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Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!

Biting the bait in a thread that was bait.

The purpose of this wasn't to call out any existing good guys by name or specifically, nor was it implicitly claiming that anyone who isn't me/us isn't doing anything, I should clarify; this was meant to encourage activity for the folk that insist there's nothing to do because the DMs won't manufacture a purpose for them.

My point is that you don't 'need' to wait for another Arcanum, and trying to is going to both leave you disappointed and forever waiting for something that won't happen. Sorry.

It's not their responsibility, take a hint.



Also @ T o u c h e d, I don't have to answer that because I've already answered it. I'm also not further entertaining anything outside my 'keep it IC' policy because nothing changed. Peace and good night friends.

_________________
*So, i've got a question for ya.
*do you think even the worst person can change…?
*that everyone can be a good person, if they just try?
*all right.
*well, here's a better question
*do you wanna have a bad time


Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers


 
      
t o u c h e d
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 02 2016, 21:47 PM 

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#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Also @ T o u c h e d, I don't have to answer that because I've already answered it. I'm also not further entertaining anything outside my 'keep it IC' policy because nothing changed. Peace and good night friends.



See you in game : ]

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 03 2016, 22:04 PM 

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Kudark wrote:
That's not really centralizing anything, but rather spreading them out. And what makes you think none of this is going on? It amazes me that you think everyone on the server, that's not in your little group, stands around the Dale and does nothing. I'll take it as a compliment that my character's plans are kept well hidden.


^ this is why the grove is considered elitist by those not apart of it.

Hypocritically Kudark talks about a their 'little group' while bragging his own 'little group' for being secretive is kinda... Not in good taste?

@#StraightOutaAvernus

I don't find it fun to play on a server where one person's hard work is rewarded, whilst others are ignored. The imbalance of such creates a poor environment for sportsmanship. When you work to make a difference but are given limitations that are known to be in surmountable no matter what you do... makes playing that side seem... un favorable.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 03 2016, 22:32 PM 

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Neither side of this argument was very necessary, PS/Kudark.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 03 2016, 22:33 PM 

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I missed you too Tormak.

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#StraightOutaAvernus
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 03 2016, 22:34 PM 

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Fair.

Good work at not neccessarily sided with anyone in this discussion. I really appreciate that you're taking this constructively.

I can't say I know the full sum of what you've tried in the past PS, but maybe you're just not pushing hard enough? Try to draw as many as you can into whatever you're doing, regardless of what it is; and definitely don't be afraid to mass PM the DM team if you need specific attention.

Also -- just coming from the knowledge of your main character, I have thought paladin as a class was the enemy of fluid roleplay from day 1 due to both the abilities it assigns, the role it takes, and the restrictions it puts on the players (which can get subjective going between DMs). I'm not going to tell you anything about how you play a paladin, but the fact that you play one at all 90% of the time restricts you to being basically unable to do anything but write a strongly worded letter about an issue that needs to be conquered: if someone is even slightly morally questionable and you work with them you can become completely worthless as a character (fall (lmao))

_________________
*So, i've got a question for ya.
*do you think even the worst person can change…?
*that everyone can be a good person, if they just try?
*all right.
*well, here's a better question
*do you wanna have a bad time


Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers


 
      
Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 03 2016, 22:43 PM 

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Be civil or I am going to start locking threads.

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 03 2016, 22:46 PM 

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In regard of elitism:

Does it exist on Amia? Yes, it does. However, elitism exists everywhere, and joke's on you if you think otherwise.

PassionateShadow wrote:
I don't find it fun to play on a server where one person's hard work is rewarded, whilst others are ignored. The imbalance of such creates a poor environment for sportsmanship. When you work to make a difference but are given limitations that are known to be in surmountable no matter what you do... makes playing that side seem... un favorable.


Here I'll be little blunt.

I have nothing against you as a person, PS, I'd like to say that in advance. I don't know you, I have no reason to. But the way you play Mat, you play a paladin class, is for me - and I am being subtle, bizzare. Very, very bizzare. And because I've seen you in action a few times, and seen you in company of characters that are nothing but pure evil having a friendly banter, I'd say the huge "Stop" given by an unnamed DM (maybe more than just the one) is justified and have nothing to do with elitism or personal preferences.

So try to avoid from personal issues and take a look on the server as a neutral party. I had my time when I thought Amia is severely elitist, too. I made a new login, a new character, and blend in a major faction. And let me tell you, both staff and players proven me wrong.

Try it. Sometimes, a new start is all it takes.

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Overneath
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 04 2016, 1:16 AM 

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If we're going to have a discussion about how to 'properly' play a paladin (lol) I think we need to make a new thread for it. Let's keep to one topic per, eh, topic.

As to the nature of this particular thread, I think elitism is all fine and good until it's the only thing remaining, or is considered so standard that when a post is made to try and open borders, the first two responses read like someone getting personally offended by the fact that someone is suggesting making an effort NOT to be elite. I'm sorry, CCL and Kudark, but your posts confuse me deeply, and not for the reasons I think Kudark got defensive about. The OP wasn't referencing you directly, to the best of my knowledge, but you took it upon yourselves to point out that you're NOT expanding beyond your group and that your plans are hidden, which...good for you? But that doesn't have anything to do with what #SOA was really getting at. It's like we were talking about refrigerator maintenance and you decided you were insulted we HAVE refrigerators, so you went out of your way to point out you use an ice chest in your basement. They're both legit ways to keep Diet Coke below room temperature, but we aren't really discussing the finer points of YOUR method, we're brainstorming ways to improve OURS.

My understanding of the OP's intent is that it's supposed to be an initiative to discuss ways those of us who are interested in doing so 'fix our refrigerators'. Again, being elite is fine. But if you're going to BE elite, and you want to STAY elite, discussing a different program in those terms is...what word did Guardian use? Bizarre.

That all being said, I'm as much a proponent as I can be about anything towards player initiatives absent DM control, as I noted in my previous posts. Allowing ourselves to put the onus on each other instead of exclusively on them is, in my opinion, a good start. If we can keep our wheels turning, the staff won't be obliged to grease them so much. I think Commie has the right idea - I shudder as I type :P - in setting up times and places that are pure interaction. It's the most basic and easy to follow route, simply posting a time, topic, and letting people show up of their own accord. In my experience, even the simplest RP can be the gateway to something bigger, so organizing a class on History of Pottery or what have you doesn't seem like an elephant to pull off, and if multiple interests are being forwarded at the same time, more people will be inclined to join in.

Setting up a specific place and time, I think, would allow more people the luxury of assuring their RP interactions, as opposed to logging in and hoping you find someone (or, as is more likely, looking at 2/65 and not logging on at all). From there could spin more complicated plans and events if folks find themselves so inspired, but the important part is that something should be DONE to encourage that inspiration. We're concerned with Good alignments, yes? Set up an ethics seminar, discuss law/chaos among goodly actions, try and convert neutrals to the cause, organize a crusade, gather people up to dispense food and clothes to the poor, go find bandits and dismantle their organization. If we think we can handle it, we could even set something up in an open area so evil PCs can gatecrash or just troll everyone, if we'd like a little more edge to the conflict. I believe we have the capacity to make a better experience on our own, and the potential maturity to expand what we get out of it.


TL;DR (the 'oh my GOD shut UP Overneath' edition) - Start broadcasting player-driver interactive events beforehand (in multiple time zones by multiple folks, if possible) to encourage the mindset of 'hey, I know for sure people are showing up, I should too'. The important part is that this is player-driven, not DM-dependent, although obviously if a DM sees this going down and drops in, more power to all involved.

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MazeOfThorns
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 04 2016, 1:32 AM 

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I agree with Overneath. And want folks to show up to your event? Use "Shenanigans" in your post. Just saying.

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Kudark
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 04 2016, 4:24 AM 

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Quote:
Hypocritically Kudark talks about a their 'little group' while bragging his own 'little group' for being secretive is kinda... Not in good taste?

Y'know what's not in good taste? Completely misquoting me, and taking what I say out of context. It's already happened by no less than three people in this thread, and twice by the same person, but my opinions are 'not necessary', so y'all have fun now.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 04 2016, 4:47 AM 

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OK.

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