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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 08 2017, 2:10 AM 



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Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Hi,
This is something I've been a bit curious about lately, since there's all the talk about making Amia great again, or whatever, and with the faction areas, it seems like a place to start to get some factions in. But then, there's one thing I've been a bit curious about. I've seen a few things about leadership, and was curious if people could explain a bit what they think about it.

So, first thing is, what makes a leader good? Of course, time investment is a huge part (the leader should be able to play), but what else? To think of an example I just read about. What made, for example, the Gentleman's Club leadership so great? I've heard this a few times, in what way were they good leaders?

A second thing, and it's one I've been curious for a longer while: ''Generating RP''. I've heard a few times, over the years, that factions should generate their own RP, rather than waiting for DMs. And I've always been a bit curious what is meant by this. I mean, of course, a part is deciding what can be done, and the planning of it. (I'd love some examples if anyone whould be willing to give any as well)
The thing is, when I think of ''generating RP'', I always envision one of two things. 1. Talking, planning, stuff like that, which, at some point, you'll run out of things to do. The second would be grinding levels and gold, and some sparse RP inbetween. And both seem to not contribute to RP too much.
The first is actually what I feel most budding factions have, plans to take over the world, to get established, to become relevant.

But, once a faction has become relevant, has gotten a base, how is this handled then? How do you provide anything interesting, with only NPCs and PCs on your hand?


Essentially, the question boils down to this: What would you expect from a good faction leader, and what suggestions would you have how they could be an interesting addition to the setting? (As opposed to just being the next group that gets blown up and replaced by the next, and the next, and the next)

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 08 2017, 14:05 PM 

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Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Quote:
So, first thing is, what makes a leader good?


This is a rather broad question... In my opinion what makes a good leader across the board in different kinds of leaderships, a good leader makes good use of those he leads. He looks at his followers across the board and use all of them to their strengths.

What makes a good leader in factions? It is hard to tell, but the first thing I can see is tat they put the right PC's in the right places, and give the right PC's appropriate jobs and projects. You have a powerful mage? Make him lead he mages, is one a powerful diviner? let her do divination. And so on and so forth.

I think the good leaders have also managed to establish personal connection with their members, in the sense that they make them feel valued and important.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 08 2017, 15:47 PM 



Player

Joined: 04 Jan 2015

Thanks. I kind of tried to do broad strokes, because I am quite curious about this stuff. You read about the factions of 'glorious old Amia', and I'm kind of curious what made them stand out, and how the faction leadership made them... well, glorious. (I'm also curious on an OOC level, because it seems like they'd be two different things)

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I like to write long texts, sorry for that. Please don't hate me for it.

Don't be sad, because sad backwards is das.

Und das ist nicht gut.


 
      
That Guy
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 08 2017, 17:06 PM 



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Joined: 13 Nov 2014

Well, real life leadership and ingame leadership are quite different, and there are a multitude of factors that affect both.

In real life, for example:

1) Often times, the leader can make choices that have a real effect on lives and or quality of live for those they lead.
2) Leaders offer something tangible that others desire, and so, they follow them.
3) This ties to #1, but, a "leader" can also rule by the fist, threatening to kill or harm in some way those they lead.

Ingame:

1) A leader may have influence, either with the playerbase, or the DM team.
2) A leader may simply be fun to be around.
3) A leader may be very active, which may also tie into #2.

Essentially, for a game, the leader has to be present, influential, and fun. If not, the faction will fall apart. That said, since there is no real downside to bad things happening, how seriously players and pc's take the issues is the crux of the matter. Therefore, a leader ingame is really only as good as the players they play with. That said, that leader is just a player too, their character is the leader, and the other characters that follow them are the followers, but the players are all on an even platform. None of them is more important than the others, and in fact, they both need each other. They need each other to be present, and to play along.

None of this was aimed at anyone in particular, before someone starts pointing fingers. It's merely my observations from playing PW servers on NWN for 10+ years and being in positions of leadership ingame, and in real life.


 
      
Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Sun, Oct 08 2017, 21:17 PM 

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Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Location: The downeaster "Alexa"

robbi320 wrote:
A second thing, and it's one I've been curious for a longer while: ''Generating RP''. I've heard a few times, over the years, that factions should generate their own RP, rather than waiting for DMs. And I've always been a bit curious what is meant by this. I mean, of course, a part is deciding what can be done, and the planning of it. (I'd love some examples if anyone whould be willing to give any as well)


Generating your own RP, for me, means interacting with players outside of your group. When I think of the factions I consider to be successful in the "old glory days," they were groups that made it a point to involve PCs in their goals. PCs that may not share your views or even oppose them. It's fine to want DM quests to go off to faraway lands and liberate/destroy towns. But at the end of the day, your entire goal revolved around a DM facilitating the effort. When you depend on that exclusively, you run the risk of your RP becoming trivial(all your efforts are self-contained and maintain the status quo), or losing interest when a DM isn't giving your group something to pull or push against.

The examples I can think of off the top of my head are aggressive and confrontational, but I don't think they have to be:

Church of Bane: Making the Crags a toll road, actively attempting to convert PCs(even under threat of violence sometimes), taking over Wharftown
Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Similar waylaying of travelers, kidnapping PCs
Eternal Order: Talks and presentations on death and their views of necromancy, actively hunting down and holding trials for PCs they believed were breaking holy tenets
Various Drow Houses: Kidnapping of PCs, seeking out Drow who had escaped or turned their back on the Underdark

You get the picture. As a leader, you determine the goals of your organization. Strive to be a fixture within the playerbase, even if its a hidden fixture.

A side note: Delegation! Don't put it all on your back as a leader. The amount of times I've heard a group say "well, our leader left, so the RP kind of fell apart after a while" is saddening. Have a second-in-command.

Have protocol and general actions that you can still perform without a leader there. That's how real-life organizations continue to function. Heck, in many of them, it's the vice-president or vice-chair that does a lot of the heavy lifting and motivating within the group. It's understandable that when you have a likable, fun leader leave, RP can slow down. But in terms of being able to get stuff done, never, ever, ever have it so that it all depends on one PC being present. A leader should be present as much as possible, but if not, then there should be ways for other PCs to step up. Even if there aren't official ways such as votes, hostile takeovers and mutinies are still totally viable RP options that then continue the group's story as well.

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yimmi
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 09 2017, 20:28 PM 

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Joined: 27 Dec 2014
Location: Santiago, Chile

I think pretty much what other people have already said:
-Keep a clear goal, to have something more "tangible" is way more attractive than "CONQUER THE WHOLE WORLD", at least for my point of view.
-Being active, but not just logging in and sit on certain place for hours without doing anything. Try to encourage people to pursuit different tasks, that way people that follow the leader realize they are doing something.
-See what are the interest of your followers, I mean why did they join you, what do they wish to accomplish?
Or at least these are the things I would look in a leader!

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