I was discussing this topic with some players today. Players have been part of various factions, both successful and unsuccessful, and I asked them the reasons why they stayed with some and left others. Many of the answers were just personal gripes but the one commonality was essentially this:

"The faction started out full steam but as time went on, out of those active in the faction that remained, only a select few had their RP acknowledged by the leadership. For example, a character told to go observe and report, would do exactly that and come back with information that was vital to the faction, report it, only to have it ignored, the faction dealt a serious setback, and the faction leadership asking OOC'ly and IC'ly why nobody saw it coming. Then after a couple of months, people stopped logging in with their faction characters."

I haven't really been involved with factions on this server, much, so I don't have any similar experience to report. The one faction that a character of mine is involved in, the Faction leader pays attention, and tries to give as much time to everyone who makes the effort to log in and do Faction RP.

I'd like to ask these questions of those who are now or have been in the command structure of a faction:

How long did your faction last under your leadership? What do you think you did right, and what d9o you think you did wrong?

For those players who are of have been members of a faction:

What drew you to join a faction? Whats the longest time you have participated in a particular faction? What kept you coming back to that Faction? What did you see that was done right? What would you have liked to see done? Do you think that, as a faction member, there was anything you could have done differently to make your experience in the faction better?

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I hated hipsters before hating them was cool.

Honestly to me when I was side leader of a faction was that timezone is a major issue that needs to be addressed and handled. As well as making it fun to be within that faction, such as providing valid rp for the members to want to keep logging in as that charater. Serious rp, casual, funny and goofy as well. This is a lesson I have learnt the hard way, and deeply regret though sometimes it is honestly best to know when to throw in the towl and realize your faction is dying out rather than beating yourself up over it.

My advice to keep a faction running and active: Have a serious goal. aka kill all goblins within Amia. Something to keep at and work at, that you can see movement being done.


I think I answered all your questions in a round about way.

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Lieutenant Belalad Feiwallyan

((Please take note if you PM me and you are ignored resend to me in 1-3days, it is likely due to not realizing I got mail))

I am a de facto faction leader for almost 3 years now (and I did not give it up, resigned or committed suicide yet), basically since the Triadic Knights were founded.

Running a faction is pretty much different in each faction, especially in case of the Triadic Knights which is a religious based good templar Order. Majority of the members are paladins and paladin is considered as a really hard class to rp, especially on Amia. It is definitely harder to run than a social hippie group, because the class and the Order have too many IC restrictions. A lot of player tend to get bored of those and they give up playing the character, which is indeed a disadvantage for the faction.

A faction can hardly die, it is pretty much depending on the faction leader and the core faction members. For example there was a time when I thought that I won't be able to restart the faction but in the end it worked. The faction leader needs to be stubborn on it.

It can be a serious problem for the faction if the members are only alt characters and not main characters, in that case the activity time will be reduced(see the Salandrans as an example).

It is a wrong assumption that the activity is depending on the faction leader's activity. A faction leader is a simple person who has a real life and he can't be on all the time, otherwise the person has got serious addiction issues which is not healthy. A faction is indeed depending on the leader, but it is also depending on the input of the other members. Without the input of the members, the faction cannot be run, if necessary the leader has to kick them for that. The necessity of the leader's presence is also depending on the structure of the faction, for example in case a developed chain command the faction leader's direct presence is not necessary because he can give orders to his officers via forum.

The most important thing for the leader is to make compromises with the players. Again, I bring the Triadic Knights as an example. It is a paladin faction and the players, since they live on different part of the world, have different ideas and ideals about paladins. In general, the Europeans(including myself), due to their medieval historical heritage have a much stricter point of view than the Americans or the Australians (This statement is based on my own observations at the discussions inside the faction forum and the paladin threads which generally end up locked ). The role of the faction leader is to find compromises between the point of views so it will be acceptable for everyone. Without that the faction leader can hardly run the faction or it will be really hard.
After all we all know that "with a little understanding, the world is ruled"

The good communication with the DMs is important for the faction leader, without that it will be hard to plan plots for the faction.

Timezone issue mainly comes up during the main DM events but it can be handled with a little understanding.

At last the faction leader needs to give a focus point for the faction members. He must be able to create a mission of statement for the faction so the faction members will know what is their duty as a member of faction also the role of the faction on Amia. In case of most of the religious factions it is obvious(Triadic Knights have to aid the helpless and smash the banites, Kelemvorites have to get the undeads and the necros), however for many other faction it is not obvious, so thus the faction leader has to pay attention on it.



I could say a lot more than what I said, but I will save it for later.

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Lord Hector Sylgerand
Glendil Fettian, the black bard

Dunno if it helps, but here's a little of how I see running a faction:

It's like being a DM on a much smaller scale. You are not running the area around you, but instead you are running the people banded with you. One thing that a DM needs to do is keep players interested, and the same holds for a faction leader. Now, you can do that in different ways but mainly I see it working best if the faction leader strives to do so by setting goals and an overall end objective (like a DM campaign!) and making sure that the group follows down that path.

Coordination is also key, both with the faction players and the DMs like Lutra mentioned. A faction leader is like a leader in real life. You have to think of what you would do if this was a real life group you were making. You will need to organize, have members that assist you, communicate with the other players, coordinate with DMs if you want to run plots (like, say, nuke Kohl for example *whistles innocently*), and generally be personable. You'd be best taking in people who mesh together well, though even in real life when people in a group do not get along the best if there is still a sense of camaraderie and a common goal that can be overlooked.

I had some more ideas, but I can't remember right now. Just tossing things out when I think of them, hah.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Ah, the day I sold my soul to the Guard faction... I've been leading the faction for a year and some odd months, officially, and some time before that unofficially, due to some IC challenges and blocks that needed to be overcome. I'm not sure what I've done right and wrong, to tell you the truth! I never thought I'd be leading a faction, mostly because I had no real desire to!

The wrong things are probably the easiest to pick out. I'm still currently leading the faction, but I think the thing that I've done wrong and that I have trouble getting away from is "the old way we did things." For those of you who don't know, the Guard faction has been lead by DM NPCs for a few years now. I'm the first player to take the reigns 'entirely' since then, and I tend to think that the way it used to be done and organized is the superior method, and that it was put that way by the DMs for a reason. It's also been said I'm not very confrontational, and that's true. It makes me dread doing some things.

But! I like to think that something I've done right is carrying on anyway, in spite of it, and being reasonably active. The other thing is being open to communicate with DMs, and players within and outside of your faction. Pretty much what Lutra said.

On a broad scale, a faction that fits a lasting niche are the ones that are going to survive. Usually they're ones that have been established for a while and have "cornered the market" so to speak. See: Cordor Guard, Banites, Triadic Knights/Defenders. They stay interesting because of the type of the RP, and they don't really rely solely on DM intervention or faction leaders doing stuff. The RP generates other RP, which is healthy and good.

Your questions are a bit difficult to answer in a solid way, because there is a lot that can be said. This is my first attempt to answer them in a way that makes sense and isn't rambling.

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"The world takes and takes, even things that aren't offered. Finally, it gave us something back; I wish he was here to share it with me."

Just over 6 months now, I think it's drawing to a close for me however (mostly because I want to give some other players the chance to prove their mettle.)

The main thing is to engage your members, keep them interested, give them things to do and make them feel important. You've got to be approachable as a leader or you'll start to lose touch with your players.

Make sure your faction stands for something, that it has a set manifesto and guidelines for members to follow. Be it rigid or loose, it doesn't matter so long as it's there. Don't put too many OOC restrictions on your faction, it dilutes the membership and makes it a bit samey (At least to me.) With some factions it makes sense, like the Monolith.

Don't fill your faction with the same players playing alts.

Don't let your members get lazy, if they're not doing something make them pull their weight!

Try and try and try to stress to your members to take the initiative. Be open to suggestions both IC (Where it makes sense) and OOC.

Try and keep in touch with your friendly DM staff, and be on good OOC terms with your factions enemies. But then, I think everyone should have a modicum of respect for their fellow players.

S'all I got.

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Yes....this is what I've forgot to mention. Conflicts between factions, especially if certain faction are arch enemies to eachother won't work if you do not keep good ooc terms and if you do not follow the server rules. Be especially keen on this if you happen to have a mass pvp, otherwise it will only raise ooc conflicts which will cause ooc annoyance and that will make the faction members either leaving the faction or stop playing with the character.

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Lord Hector Sylgerand
Glendil Fettian, the black bard

I've started and ran one faction and stepped in to temporarily take the reigns of another and I can say without a doubt that the key to successfully running a faction is to make every member feel special.

The thing that draws people away from a faction is inactivity and a feeling of having nothing to contribute. Giving people a way to contribute to the betterment of the faction and a purpose with the character gives them a vested interest in the faction.

Unfortunately, this concept can be compromised by people with 50,000 alts... some of which may be in rival factions.

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"I once took the high road and it took me straight to hell and I stood there all by myself." -Hank III

Another thing, building on Ainjylls point. If you have one character in the Banites and one character in the Triad pick a side for that specific conflict. Playing both sides is a bit of a dick move. That isn't to say you can't have one in the Banties and one in the triad, just don't actively work against one if your character is actively working against the other.

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This post

+

"Don't play both sides"

Best post.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I fully agree with Silent and Tormak here. Playing both sides is a very very tricky matter even for a very experienced roleplayer.

This is why I removed my alt from Tarkuul Council when I took over the Grove.

I admit I am wary with People wanting to join my faction who have an alt in nearly every faction, especially if they are opposing eachother. I made some bad experience with that in the past.

I am actually not 100% sure how long I lead the Grove now, it has been a while.

You need to make sure your members have something to do and feel activly involved in the faction.

The faction Leader needs to Be active and needs to have time for the faction members IC and Ooc.

Means the faction Leader should spend most of His/her time on that character and Be active, or in result the members get inactive quickly too.

I can also say this by experience. About two years ago I was so occupied with my job I barely got to play for a few months. And that didnt go well on the faction.

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I hope you're not turning the coin around, and getting to focused in the faction that your job don't have to suffer?

On topic.

The factionleader have a responsibility to keep the faction together, But a key rule is to delegate more power to your members. Albeit it can feel like an effective and less complex method to self-center the power onto the factionleader, both for you and your member, it's by my experience the least you should do.

'Delegating'.

You pass on some power, Ask the member to be in charge of X and attend meeting Y in your stead, Give him guidelines of what the faction desire/want and what he may or may not say.

This results in less RP For you, Yes - But more overall contribution from your members, which spikes their activity, and eventually push the activity of the faction up a notch.

Two sides of a coin

It does not take long playing in an faction setting to discover the two extremes of delegating tasks: the Control Freak and the Desk-Clearer. Whether from desire for RP security or from an obsession with everything being done his own way, the Control Freak hates to delegate anything. The Desk-Clearer is firmly the opposite. The overworked faction members beneath him can certainly handle his newest project as well.

Neither of these attitudes is conducive to an efficient, productive faction that turns out quality work. Delegating tasks is a necessity in the faction . When it is done right, delegation of tasks can improve efficiency, quality of the RP and activity/Interest.

To keep things running smoothly, even the Control Freak must occasionally delegate. Also, it does no good to be a Desk-Clearer. Over-stressing members can lead to lower work quality, a tendency to avoid logging in, and higher inactivity in the faction.

When should i delegate my power, And won't i show weakness doing so?

The first and most frequent situation is when you are overloaded/swamped. You should not decide to delegate tasks simply because you would like more free time or because you do not want to work as hard.

Some people get caught by the fear that to delegate a task shows they are weak, incompetent, or unable to keep up. The truth is just the opposite. Delegating tasks to make sure that everything is well handled shows a good view of the big picture, as well as a dedication to the faction and members interests.

Summary

So the next time you find that you need to speak to Person X Y Z, Send a representative instead. Give him some guidelines - A few do's and don'ts and shove him away. You will look more professional and the representative will have something important to do.

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Amia Minecraft Server Ip: vps1602.directvps.nl
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I presently have 2 PCs in leadership posts. For all but my first 3 months, Nina has served as a member of Bendir's militia/adventurer guard in some way shape or form. Recently she has become one of the leaders in the Dale and, pending player driven elections, may actually rise a tier higher than she had been.

Where as with Nina I have been successful, with Ascalon I have failed. I tried to kickstart a tribe of Kobolds focussed upon pulling all the 'pet' 'cuddly' Kobos back towards their heritage and the 'traditional' 'to be feared in numbers!' M.O. That lasted only so long before it fell apart. While part of it sparked from who Dahakoan was aimed at being for, I think I also had a part to play in its short lifespan. I didn't have the time in RL to lead, and the tribe suffered on account of it with most of its players making Alts and dispersing. Sure it earned Ascalon respect amongst his peers, but the point of a faction is to be for more than just one toon. In hindsight I should have stepped down as All-Watcher when I knew my schedule was tightening. As of late he has risen in the ranks of a different "tribe" so it is, at least, a nice way to try to do better for however long it lasts.

Concerning Faction Success: I echo that everyone needs to feel appreciated in a faction/town. Folks in factions need to be aware though that they will only be recognized though depending upon how much they put in. Put a lot in, you will get a lot out. If you are unhappy with a leader or want things to be more active, take initiative and lead it yourself. Sometimes leaders make mistakes, but if folks in the faction are truly interested and wish to take the reigns/point out the flaw, they shouldn't be afraid to do so. Feedback, of any sort, is huge when trying to manage a group.

In all the RL years I have spent in the Dale, something I have noticed is that we cycle who gets to be a leader and who gets to take orders on a surprisingly frequent basis. This keeps the pool of ideas fresh and gives a fun edge to our RP in that we are consistently rewriting how we do things and learning from past mistakes. This method of power transfer was something I also noticed in our longer lasting UD Drow houses when I was observing them. If I could offer advice to folks that wish to lead/are leading it would be: Don't expect to be leader forever, and don't be bitter if you get overthrown. What a PC does isn't necessarily a reflection of what the Player behind it really thinks.

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Eli Hodgewall <{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X
Sven <=={o===========>
Qeelak \ | / ,

I attempted to lead a drow faction once. I failed miserably in the end and a lot of that was due to not doing what ainjyll and Silent said. I did not want to and still do not want to make people feel important.

And you see... I never want to be a faction leader again because of that necessity that I see in almost every faction and the expectation that it seems to have set up. My issue with that is why are you playing this game for someone else to make you feel important... you can empower yourself, since... oh right. It's a game. It's not like losing anything actually loses anything.

It's like DMing. Taking on unfair responsibilities and expectations and especially then when something goes wrong or your faction loses or something else that you can't control and especially that might not matter because it's all a game, because you've taken on more of the re/exp, you then get all the blame too. Too much for old, already stressed-out-in-life me.

Maybe that w as just the drow... though I've noticed it other places, in factions I haven't joined.

From a DM standpoint, I would say leading a faction properly requires more than any player on Amia is willing to give when this game is just a hobby. We owe this difficulty primarily to the size and popularity of our server, as this gives you a lot of people creating details that you must manage. On smaller servers, factions are slightly easier to manage as the pacing is easier to predict and there's not as high a risk of overload or desertion to the next new fad.

For a long time I really wanted to bring the hammer down on factions and treat them like a mechanical tool and streamline them all in some way. Part of me still wants to do this just to end the factional bitching woes that accrue. But trusting you to manage these things yourself, success or fail, works all right for me.

People have asked me in the past what advice I have to give on leading a successful faction and I guess to sum it up I would say that the success is in the creation (or reinterpretation) and you have to treat a faction almost like you would treat a public or private organization (such as a rotary club, a society for bald men, an old boys' club, etc.).

1) Discover a need or a universal want that exists in the world, in the story, and fulfill it. This requires a natural talent that a lot of you don't have, unfortunately. When you create factions, you base them off of some cockamamie idea or inspiration that has no relevance in the setting, or you convince yourself, and falsely so, that such a need exists when in actuality it does not exist, or it only exists for a very small handful of people. Obviously, we have a buttload of factions all fulfilling a lot of the world's needs, and so new factions obviously have an extremely difficult job. That's just the way the dice fall.

As an example, I see at least one open need:

- The community of Amia could use a faction that deals specifically with information/knowledge and the free and accurate dissemination of that knowledge. The Monolith specializes in magic rather than all kinds of information, and they keep secrets. So does pretty much every other faction. And you sure as hell can't rely on the public media newspaper stories you hear from me. (Or can you?) I'm looking at a place for Oghmanytes here. When people have a question and need an answer, so often they wind up asking all sorts of different factions who all have their own different motivations and slants and interpretations of the truth, or who are willing to deliberately provide misinformation. An Oghmanyte group wouldn't do this, as it is against their dogma, and they would not only be willing but be happy to answer people's questions to the best of their knowledge. Their fun, of course, is actually investigating and uncovering the truth about things so that they can be accurate...

2) Write a mission statement. I'm not shitting you. Do it. I encourage EXISTING factions to do this. Do you know what a mission statement is? It is a statement, usually a paragraph, or no more than a few sentences, that summarizes who you are, what your goals are, and how you intend to achieve them. It is a statement that a group (or in this case, a faction) lives by and always returns to. It is the legend on your road map. I'm probably going to demand this from new factions that need DM approval, anyway, so get familiar with the idea. The mission statement is not exactly a static thing - it can change over time, and be modified as you find out that, well, things don't work exactly as you thought they would work. But a mission statement ideally forces you to think critically about what you are doing and gives not only you as a faction leader but everyone in your faction some central, binding gameplan to stick to.

For the example above, a mission statement might be:

We are the Truthseekers, a local organization primarily dedicated to the principles of Oghman's dogma. The people of Amia, whether they represent the assorted churches, work with city-state governments or townships, organize themselves for a purpose higher than themselves or for business or mercenary purposes, or are simply part of the general public, are every day subjected to information. In our estimation, a great deal of this information is at best inaccurate or incomplete, and at worst, is deliberate misinformation. The Truthseekers have come together with the intent to put all of our unique talents - divine, arcane, or mundane - into investigating and compiling a true and accurate consensus of information regarding the island's history, it's current events, and the movements and motivations of its major players, political, religious, grassroots, or otherwise. In addition, we hold to the truths of the Oghmanyte faith, that not only is knowledge sacred but it is also worthy to be shared with any who seek it; therefore, any and all may come to the Truthseekers with a question, and we will do our utmost to see it answered truthfully.

This mission statement may, as the faction progresses, be amended in the following ways, depending upon the kind of...evolution the faction goes through.

The Truthseekers do not sell information for currency, but we do offer public services such as scribing, the crafting of scrolls and wands, courier work, or manual labor at a modest fee. The proceeds of our work go towards the establishment of well-maintained libraries open to the public in every city-state and township of the island of Amia.

Or maybe...

In addition to being dedicated to Oghma, many of those who serve in the Truthseekers are diviners dedicated to the All-Seeing Lord, Savras. The art of divination is one that should not be undertaken lightly, for there are many professed soothsayers who are at best charlatans having you cross their palms with silver for a fabricated fortune-telling or the dedicents to deities who have their own agendas regarding the future, and who may unintentionally misconstrue a vision or intentionally misinform a seeker of the meaning and intent of their foreseen future. The Truthseekers offer the true divination of Lord Savras, without bias or personal interest, so that we may be rest assured that our knowledge of the future is as broad, as accurate, and as factual as our knowledge of the present and the past.

Or something to that effect. Do you see how having a mission statement as a big, central factor (whether it is IC or OOC) can be very helpful in orienting the people in your faction in the proper direction? (And in addition, giving DMs a MUCH easier time figuring out what's going to interest you.)

3) Someone said delegate. This is true, but it goes hand in hand with something else that a faction leader absolutely must do: manufacture goals and tasks for the faction to accomplish and delegate those goals! Faction leaders, you pretty much are the think tank. It is imperative, in my opinion, for you to be both creative and detail-oriented. Be specific. Be ballsy. And best of all, make the tasks difficult! Make them a challenge! Create goals that are both long-term and short-term. Assign some, and perhaps leaves some general and open to everyone. But itemize this shit out.

This comes at some risk. You have to be able to differentiate between what is "mindless, stupid work" and what is "awesome RP opportunities for your faction members".

Telling faction members in the ACTF to go hunt and acquire epic treasures is...well, it can be fun RP if they go in groups as I tried to do often, but in general that goal is going to be mindless hunting. Telling them, however, to gain an audience with Lord Wiltun and find out about his mounting costs in his war with Luskan and find a way to capitalize upon Ruathym's naval war can lead to a slew of interesting opportunities all intended to curry favor and gather resources, etc.

I guess since I'm sticking with the Truthseeker example, I'll try to imagine a few likely "goals" you'd want to put forward for the faction memebers to accomplish:

- Find and court any and all faithful to Oghma to the Truthseekers. Let them know about what we do. This may be their calling. (Long-term, general.)
- Peter, find a way to establish yourself in Cordor. Apply for citizenship, and when it is granted, try to get hired into their Ministry of Law so that you can have access to their legal records. Obey the law, of course, but make yourself the de facto expert on the city's justice system. Many people ask precisely how it functions, and it would be good to have someone who knows. (Long-term, specific, delegated.)
- Martha, read up on the Amian Recorder's information about supposed Harpers. Seek them out and try to verify if this is true or not. Explain our intent. Do not get yourself embroiled in any promises of secrecy or discretion if you can avoid it. Be honest about the fact that what we know can and will be available for the asking, but that we would like to be kept informed. (Short or long-term, specific, delegated.)
- Raise 1,500,000 for the establishment of a library in Uhm. (Short-term, specific.)
- We have just received the following information: (copy/paste of a document indicating that the Eternal Order digs up corpses, dresses them up in frocks, and puts on sexy morality plays with the dead bodies as actors). I need a specific individual to research this claim up and down. Speak to the originator of the claim, speak to the Eternal Order (though be careful to be sure you do not offend them), speak to people who live in Nes'ek and maintain any graveyard they have there. Return to me with knowledge of this information's accuracy. (Short-term, specific, waiting to be delegated to a volunteer.)

I want you to notice something about these goals: a lot of them push players towards OTHER PLAYERS or OTHER FACTIONS or, alternatively, into the hands of DMs (though towards players is usually better). That should be one of your primary driving goals as a faction leader, and it is why someone (Estara?) compared you to mini-DMs. That's exactly what we do. Or should be doing, at any rate. Pushing you towards one another, giving you reasons to interact with one another, to play your roles, to risk your resources, to put your money where your mouth is, to let you create your own alliances and conflicts and give you the reasons for them. Don't be afraid to send your faction memebers outside of their comfort zones!




Sadly, this is the kind of layout that works for a faction that is ultimately constructive, rather than destructive. The rules change for a destructive faction somewhat. You're guaranteed to be more short-lived, as you'll be ganged-up on and raped into oblivion. That said, my fourth point is simple:

4) Be willing to acknowledge your own death. Factions come and go. They die. You meet your need (for a destructive faction, your mission statement may be RAISE AS MUCH HELL AS POSSIBLE BEFORE GOING DOWN IN FLAMES!), and then when that need is met, the whole social topography changes. Or you find the idea doesn't work. Or you find that the faction fails for any number of reasons. If it comes to that, let it die gracefully. Give it a "burial" of sorts, IG, if you like. But don't try to cling to the life of a faction when the players involved in the dead and useless faction could be putting their resources elsewhere.

Most of all, bad things are amazing motivators. When a beloved faction falls apart, its members are forced to ask themselves, "Well...that part of our life is over, so what do we do now?"

They'll join other factions. They may try to create their own. They may go back to the drawing board and try to rebuild the one that died in a different way. Or they may take a more critical look at the setting, find another need to be filled, and fill it. But factions have to die, so let them. (Just like NPCs. Please stop trying to rez them all the time and just let them be fucking happy in the afterlife, mmkay?)

One thing that we do in the Armed Forces that I've implemented in the Dawnguard is to narrow your command. I'll use the military terms for a more universal example:

[STRUCTURE]
The core idea is that any single given person is not in command of more than 4 people. The Captain is in charge of his Lieutenants. The Lieutenants are in charge of their platoon sergeant. The platoon sergeant is in charge of his squad leaders. The squad leaders are in charge of their fire team leaders. You get the idea? This method does a couple of things,
1.) It reinforces a command structure. I'm a firm believer in organization, setting up a firm foundation so you can focus your creative powers elsewhere.
2.) Delegates power and responsibility. Suddenly that Corporal who was simply taking orders is responsible for the well-being of people, and he has someone to report to that struggles with not having "ultimate" power as well.
3.) RECOGNITION. This one's huge. In a set structure you'll have positions of responsibility. There's room for promotions. I've heard quite a few people mention, "Make your people feel special" Sure. We're all special. But recognize their actions (In either good or bad ways). A faction should be a system of consequence.

"A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon." - Napoleon


[MOTIVATION]
So now you've got some structure, some internal movement- Great. Something I've noted from personal experience in dispersed (not "Failed) factions, (The original Armathora, Goblins, Knights of Light), is that the emotions of the Leader are paramount. Granted, faction leaders are people do, and they break apart on occasion- but as soon as the faction leader loses motivation, drive, emotional stability, the entire faction falls apart. As a faction leader, you're the rock. Sure, sometimes emotional instability is a fun thing to have in a faction, but the members typically try to emulate the leader and look to said leader for missions and goals. If the faction leader can't put a smile (Or a wicked grin) on his face, the faction loses something. In every faction that's died on me, I can directly relate it to the leader falling first. BEING the leader of the Dawnguards, that's a bit daunting. Its a big responsibility. But please.... please, if you aren't up to the task or facing troubles, just can't think straight, etc, fall back on that command structure and look to your other leaders to take the reins a bit.



To answer Janna's questions directly:

[RESPONSE]
I think I'm managing the Dawnguards well in that I empower my subordinates, assign both detailed and vague duties, and make myself available. As the faction leader, I AM NOT the strongest combatant in the order. But I don't need to be. Hell, I'm not even level 30. I recognize my strengths and my weaknesses. I also keep constant tabs on my members and their activities (Granted, I've only been faction head for a few weeks now, but I've been a Lieutenant for much longer). I remember the small things and make a commitment to myself to see them through. Also, I don't beat myself up when people decide to leave the faction or Amia. Sure, there might have been something more I could have done, but I understand that there are real people behind the members, and they need breaks. I am open minded to their complaints or reasons for leaving. And instead of dwelling on that missing member (Sorry kiddos), I move on quickly. As a faction, if you stand still, you die. Move, move, move. There are people that need a leader, and if you can't perform, tough nuggets. A leader cannot afford to hate their members. A leader cannot blatantly fraternize (In order to hold respect and authority when needed). I understand that its possible to have structure but be open minded and creative. The Dawnguard draws a large amount of players at a fairly steady rate. We try to give people an experience without demanding, pushing, or requiring.



Leading Volunteers is one of the hardest things a leader can do. One must keep them satisfied and willing to perform.

Factions cannot die out, only if something interferes on a higher level. For example if we would switch to the 4th edition lore, then I would have to disband the Triadic Knights because Tyr and Helm would be dead, obviously we would have to form something different. Probably the former Tyrrans and Helmites would attack eachother

Beside that a faction cannot die as long as one member or the faction leader is still around, he can refresh the memberlist because the faction was never based on one memberlist.

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Lord Hector Sylgerand
Glendil Fettian, the black bard

Oh they can die all right. They don't go out with a bang usually, but they die slow and painful deaths. Which DMs, of course, get to observe from best seats...

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Current plots:
DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR

Prod me for development-related stuff.

It pretty much depends on the dedication of the members and I don't see a reason why a faction wouldn't be able to refresh its memberlist? A faction can have the 10th generation of players but it would remain the same old faction.

I had the chance to watch how the Defenders died out, but it was not necessary, it was not necessary.

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Lord Hector Sylgerand
Glendil Fettian, the black bard

The death of the Defenders was one of the greatest things that ever happened, because they didn't know what they were doing. When they died, they split into groups who had a much better idea of what they were actually doing.

Faith-based factions have a slightly more difficult time dying than more secular factions, but it can happen nonetheless. Let's say your Triadic Knights make a tragic misstep and bring war to Kohlingen, and the Church of the Triad excommunicates the faction.

And then your members are killed because they no longer have the protection of Kohlingen, or the players lose interest because they either don't like the direction of RP and were happy with their sanctuary or because something else interests them, leaving you as the only person hanging around.

And then you have difficulty recruiting other people because the Triadic Knights have bad PR and are actually kinda boring because suddenly being a secular knight is more in vogue than being a Triadic Knight.

That's when the faction dies, and Yaston becomes the lone former Triadic Knight, even though he may struggle the rest of his life to try to rebuild it (note, I'm not saying they cannot be resurrected, but they can and should die!)

As I said, an interference on a higher level can kill faction. If an NPC interferes and excommunicates the faction then obviously it would mark the faction or it would end it.

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Lord Hector Sylgerand
Glendil Fettian, the black bard

And yet at the same time, that'd be a result of a rule I like to call ABC:

Action
Begets
Consequence

... Admittedly at times, INAction can be just as bad, but still. Action/Inaction Begets Consequence is a rule. If the Triadics really do bring war needlessly to Kohlingen.. then.. that's a price they pay.

Since this could turn into an argument, can we please stay on topic?

I know that the conversation about the Triadics is an example, I just don't want to see a thread derailment that devolves into quibbling.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

That's true, I understand what you mean. But that "interference" from a higher level is often the result of your own actions, as in Grymia's case, an interference that wouldn't have occurred had you made...different choices. I'll not say right or wrong, because I'm a firm believe that some factions just plain need to die either because they're useless or boring.

My actual point is a caution against the faction leader who is unwilling to admit defeat and continues to be a drain on everyone's time, resources, and energy by holding onto an idea that the player has internalized as the measurement of his or her own value. Letting a faction die is a beautiful and liberating thing...and more importantly, it is natural. Organizations come and go, but if they keep coming and never going, you get the silly, over-the-top factional bloat we have now.

And Naivatkal, butt out and let us adults have a mature conversation, please. Lutra and I have worked together in the past very well and have mutual respect for one another and we can actually disagree with one another about the necessity of factional death without getting into an argument or disrespecting one another. Even if he doesn't see things my way, that doesn't change my opinion that he's a decent faction leader and has managed to keep the Triadics together for a long time.

About the recent upswing in factions.

I'm in a firm belief, too, that if we would just weed out a few of these factions the overall RP over the server could boom.
I'm also in a firm belief that if we restricted factions to one per player, we would also see a quality rise over quantity as the alts of an alt that people tend to play would cease existing, and that is something every faction would agree is for the best.

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As we all already know, faction success is directly proportional to the coolness of you acronym.

But in all seriousness, I'm not sure what bench mark we're using to define success here. Personally I feel that if the faction is engagingly and fun for it's members to be a part of then you've succeeded. I do agree though that when it's time comes, and a faction becomes a chore to keep around it should die, ideally in a blaze of glory.

I've never been a faction leader, but I've seen plenty succeed and plenty rot away like a mummy, as a member and from the background. If I can give any kind of advice, I'd say the following:

*You MUST dedicate a lot of time to your faction. That means at least 10 hours a week, and being in game at least every other day. The more, the better, however.

*Be creative and come up with things for the faction to do that relate to your factions overall mission. This is absolutely critical. Coming up with fun things to do that don't relate to your factions mission is fine and all, but it doesn't count as giving your faction something relevant to do. Example: You're a faction of freedom fighters. Putting on a poetry night or a dance event is fun and fine, but it does zero for your factions mission so don't count that as "giving your faction something to do."

*Don't hog power. Give your faction members power to do certain things. Hand out missions that certain groups of faction members must complete for the faction that relate to your factions overall mission.

*Don't single out only certain members of your faction to focus on and ignore the rest. Involve the whole entire faction to some degree. Make sure they all feel the faction leader "poke" from you personally at regular intervals. Don't let ANY faction members simply float along. "Elitism" will spread if you don't do this.

*Plan meetings with all/most of your faction members on a regular basis, so that there's a sense of real unity, as well as a means for your faction to communicate as a whole, in person.

I guess the key phrase, for me, would be: Be engaging.

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My Characters:
Yuilith Kethil Menaiivan Garadeth

Like...

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I hated hipsters before hating them was cool.

I don't, factions can play an integral role to the development of a character. So you might see an overall increase of quaility faction related roleplay but a steep decline in the quality of day to day interactions.

It's drawing a line between your characters that needs to be done. Try not to put yourself in polar opposing factions. This is the reason I do not play a banite, sharran, horsemen.

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Clipping the heck out of this from our own boards since it went long but this is directed at faction members, not only the leaders.

Yes the leaders have a job, however it does/should not necessarily equate to pulling thumbs out of places every moment of the day.




The first part is perhaps the most important in my opinion. A sports team has clearly defined roles and positions. If a leader has taken the time to clearly define a role and position, faction members should be able to fulfill that role in the most fun way they can think of.

It should not go as follows:

"Please go deliver this letter to Kohlingen"
"How do you want me to travel?"
"Ah...boat or cart is fine."
"Which boat specifically do you want me to take?"
"....which ever one gets you there?"
"What way specifically would you take?"
*leader takes letter to Kohl themselves.*

Leaders who delegate should not be called upon to micromanage the delegated tasks. There's been wonderful posts here about what the leaders should do. Now to the members?

You get out what you put in.

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GM "Roll a new sheet, you died for blasphemy."
P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?"
*dice roll for chart*
GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship."
P1 "...so new character you say?"

The sports team analogy... oh, how I love this one. You do realize that when people play sports there are at least three large differences:

1. Distinct ratings at success and ability and distinct knowledge of failure and sucking.

2. Punishments for failing. Quite often ridicule for failing. Etc, etc.

3. Money and fame for succeeding. Other benefits that one might dream of including livelihood bonuses, hot women, hot men or both.



Do these exist on Amia or in most online games in general? Does your ability/success at roleplaying or storytelling matter to these specific consequences in most? No. Therefore, this analogy makes little sense to me (As someone who has played and succeeded at far more sports than you would ever expect out of an internet junkie and someone who recognizes that sports and storytelling/interactive/roleplaying/DnD games are not.. not the same.) There is a sport aspect of NWN. It's called building and PVPing. That's the sport element. Art, though, is not a sport.

Actually for volunteer sports teams such as neighborhood ones where people get together to have fun or family reunions, there is no pay, hot women or accolades beyond those of people near and dear and perhaps a passing stranger. It's just the best person for each role and those in their roles try their best to fulfill it and have fun.

I never said in my post that I was speaking of a professional sports team otherwise the comparison, as you pointed out and I'm well aware of, falls apart.

For a voluntary sports team, much like people choose to join a faction, it holds up rather well IMHO. Also, faction leaders can and sometimes -do- get a smoking babe(s) for positions of power.

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GM "Roll a new sheet, you died for blasphemy."
P1 "Was the comment he made that bad?"
*dice roll for chart*
GM "A Sun elf dry-humping the temple statue of Lloth during worship."
P1 "...so new character you say?"

Oh. Right, well, I hold to the same ideals in voluntary sports teams then that I complained about earlier that I see in Amian factions a lot.

And I still think the skill quality/punishments are actually very different and very applicable in sports no matter if it's voluntary or not. You have distinct rules, distinct skill sets and get punished and there is a system for how to enforce punishments.

For roleplaying and storytelling and art forms like that, it comes so much more down to subjectivity. So I still disagree, but your point is a little better I suppose.

I don't really like art/subjectivity being turned into a sport, period.

Sorry, necropost.
just needed to bump this topic so i dont need to tedious searches.

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Bookmark topic?

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

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Know where they live in real life. Then threaten violence

I had something I wanted to share after reading through it all.

If you want to be surprised as a manager of any type, tell people 'what' to do, but don't tell them exactly 'how' to do it. (as long as you know they can generally handle it, like wouldn't tell an untrained person to fix a space station by remote if they had no idea how to do that). You help them, train them, teach them, then get them doing it. The best managers don't have to do all that much, because they trained their team to know how to do it, and handle all the small things themselves. (They'll feel more important doing that as well)

They'll then use their creative minds and make it work in surprising ways, or fail (sometimes miserably) and learn from the experience. Either way is an amusing improvement for them. If someone fails at something give them the ole "So, what did we learn?, In the future you'll be able to handle this, right?" As long as they want to do better and improve, it should work out fine. (-and then you as a manager/leader don't have to micro-manage anything). If it's a really really bad screw up, sure you might demote them or whatever, but with that the promise that they can earn their way back into a more responsible role. If they're doing very well, and you totally approve, then point it out, and reward them for it, the more public the better. They can serve as a role model to the others.

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When good wins the day, and evil is destroyed, then the movie is over ...and you do something else.

Let's make it, not over.

I am finding that this thread has some valuable advice that I will be deferring to, especially Lutra's post.

One thing I will mention that I've had some head scratching with is this: Player personalities vs. Character personalities.

Sometimes a character is going to frustrate you in a manner OOCly, and you are going to want to take it OOCly. When this happens, log off and take a nap. More often than not the player likes you and the character is being something the character would be normally because it's their character. Sleep it or do something relaxing and you'll feel slightly better after, and be able to objectively address it in character without raging at anyone.

Yes running a faction is kind of hard, but you're the one who either took the job or wanted to do it and you're going to have to figure out how to handle personality clashes like that. Or at least I am.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!