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As a priestess of Nephthys I was considering taking an undead as a summon. Theebe is chaotic good like Nephthys. I was looking for opinions on the subject.

I'm curious what relevance an undead has in regards to Nephthys (I know her to have dead/undead affiliations like Osiris). However, given the Mulhorandi heritage I would think the only acceptable undead to take would be a Mummy. I could be wrong, though, as that is based upon the fact that mummies are sacred to them. Soooo a reskin to a mummy might be the only thing that make sense (as for EMD, I'm not sure what category the Pharaoh Sentinel falls under, I assume 'Bad Undead').

I am of the opinion that an undead would not be acceptable. Not in the traditional sense at least.

Osiris does not allow undead and feels they are an abomination. In fact, he seeks to destroy undead and undeath itself, having overcome death to be purified.

The Repose domain is what replaced the Death domain for priests of Osiris.

Generally, given the Mulan beliefs about the dead, the afterlife, corpses...anything remotely good would never, under any circumstances, enslave a soul or body as an undead creature. Its just unacceptable.

Evil sure, that could be done but Neph? Nah...not undead.

Maybe an Outsider like the Repose domain summon?

On the player wiki under Nepthys, it states she raises undead to protect her. That was my soul reference.

Well I think mummies fall under a different category. I believe I have read that mummies are considered sacred by the Mulhorandi, and also protectors. Also, Osiris takes the form of a mummy as well (according to FR wiki, and I know that's 3.5e or earlier because in 4e the Mulhorandi pantheon is gone *&%$*&%#!!!!!!!!!!!).

Also, just realized this should probably be here lol

edit: Gotcha, I hadn't referenced that. I'm not sure who added it (and it could be right!, though I think those undead would have to be summoned mummy protectors of some sort).

Mosh! Where are you O DM of Mulhorandiness!

Mosh, Wherever you are,
I won't tinker with my mummy till I hear from the authority. I had just wanted to emulate Nephthys with this character as best possible. Haven't seen you on with House Osirant to RP.

Moshhhhh!!! Moshhhhhh!!! Where are you?!!!! Snicker

Mengala wrote:

Mosh, Wherever you are,
I won't tinker with my mummy till I hear from the authority. I had just wanted to emulate Nephthys with this character as best possible. Haven't seen you on with House Osirant to RP.

Moshhhhh!!! Moshhhhhh!!! Where are you?!!!! Snicker

Ah...just a question...you do know that a priestess of Nepthys must be the following...

1) Mulan Woman.
2) Married or Widowed.

Just found that bit of information....I did not know that...

Now, on the undead....

I found a reference here that simply says she can raise undead...it makes no specific reference to what kind but does mention it is never an EVIL undead...so it would have be to some kind of neutral or even good undead.

Also she can speak to constructs, such as Golems or hoarding creatures, such as rats.

Quite the little raps sheet...*8p

Last edited by Mengala on Mon, Nov 14 2011, 19:26 PM, edited 1 time in total.

She is Mulan, she is widowed. She is . . .... Available *wink*

Mengala wrote:

She is Milan, she is widowed. She is . . .... Available *wink*

O_o

Hmm...well now...wonder how long that will be? *wink*

Let see..Mulan...rich...priestess...yeah...kinda bet it won't be long...specially with that whip she carries...hehehehe

Nephthys is a CG goddess who is against evil and the desecration of corpses and final resting places in general. She's a partner with Osiris in the defense of the dead and it's very safe to say that if you tried to summon undead for anything short of saving a vital piece of the Mulhorandi empire or the empire itself, you would fall as hard as a rock.

She may be able to raise mummies herself, but she's a God and she knows when it's appropriate to summon mummies in order to successfully complete a task. As well, she's able to summon mummies in a very different fashion than a simple mortal can.

In short, if you take a mummy as your summon, there will likely never ever be an instance where summoning one would be appropriate for your cleric and so it would be pointless and useless.

Gunz wrote:

In short, if you take a mummy as your summon, there will likely never ever be an instance where summoning one would be appropriate for your cleric and so it would be pointless and useless.

It depends on what we're talking about here. This being Amia, is 'homebrew,' so naturally is allowed to deviate from canon lore as much as it likes.

But if your statement is made in reference to canon, you're incorrect. You assume to this culture undeath = evil.

The Egyptian/Mulhorandi religion, pantheon, and culture openly revere and make use of undead (not just mummies). Non-evil undead outnumber evil undead quite a bit, serving as protectors and guardians. Undeath is not evil to them, but a sacrifice only the most devout suffer to serve long beyond a normal lifespan rather than go onto their final reward. A priest in this culture not only makes use of undead, but is responsible for seeking out those worthy of becoming them and turning them into eternal servitors and tomb guardians.

Osiris' realm is a haven for non-evil undead, governed and ruled by such undead. Osiris himself, is undead. Nephthys' realm is mostly tombs protected by non-evil undead servitors, her priesthood devoted to making and commanding such guardians to defend it. Osirites and Nephthyians have no problems summoning and employing such undead in the works of their deities as these servants are nothing more than the exalted servants of their religion.

If one were coding script to canon, I'd surmise worshipping Osiris or Neph changes the code to have 'mummy dust' summon a 'good' version of the summon.

"The Mummy" is not an accurate portrayal of a mummies/undeath in this culture/religion (or even real world Egyptian culture).

Actually most mulhorandi deities allow the raising of undead according to lost empires. The undead raised However are neutral aligned and don't have typical drain on hits etc which means amian undead calling isn't appropriate. That means if I see a mulhorandi use create undead spells, rest assured I will fall you so fast your head will spin. That said. Control undead is fine. Reskinning a construct.emd to a mummy is fine. Mulhorandi raised as undead are willing souls. Also what the bloke above said

The Undead EMD has no drains either so it'd suffice just fine in your comparison, Mosh.

Thank you all for the information. I don't have the libraries full of info or the research time to devote to it. A golem reskin to mummy will be persued, unless something else turns up to make it inappprpriate. The wiki also says Nephthys speaks through golems so if the mummy thing did not pan out i would go for the golem, but I thought the whole egyptian/mummy thing was far cooler.

I knew the Mulan were okay with non-evil undead, but I thought they were simply guardians. As in, they sacrificed themselves to be guardians of tombs and such. I'd never read anywhere that Clerics actually summoned them though, but if Lost Empires says they do, then okay. I hadn't seen that.

Still, I think it's very important to keep in mind that the summoning of undead by these priests should not be for simple things. These are honorable undead who have willingly become such in order to guard and do certain tasks. I think it cheapens the whole thing when an undead is summoned to walk around and hunt Minotaurs for some cool loot. But maybe that's just me.

Of course, I speak of the good and neutral gods here. If you're a cleric of Set or Sebek, evil undead away all you like.

Well, I know the Repose domain summon is not undead, but an outsider, least so far it has been.

From what I have read, and of course the DMs hold sway over anything else here, the 'undead' most called upon by the Mulan gods are non-evil, often intelligence 'undead'...

Really, after reading quite a bit about it from various sources...I can't call them undead in the traditional sense.

They are more souls that have crossed over, being called back into service, placed in vessels that may be decaying bodies. I could see a flesh golem being used too or even a sand golem, stone golem or similar construct easily.

In fact, one of the things Neph does is talk to golems and constructs.

Now...please note, this is 100% personal take on it and the DMs are far more versed in how things work on Amia..and of course are the last word on such things.

All thoughts, ideas, opinions offered as simply food for thought.

Your mileage may vary.

Thus the reason I asked for input first on the subject. Since I am somewhat of a recluse I all to often tend to hunt alone and thus rely on a summon. I can understand the servitude of a mummy may be taken as an inappropriate use of the sacred dead when leveling, so it seems my idea may not be the most sound one. It seemed fun when I first thought of doing it. Always liked taking mum with me for hunts . Snicker. *dodges rotten vegetables being thrown*

Quote:

In fact, one of the things Neph does is talk to golems and constructs.

You are misreading the page: It says she uses those creatures as her messengers, not that she communicates with them or that her worshippers can.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

In fact, one of the things Neph does is talk to golems and constructs.

You are misreading the page: It says she uses those creatures as her messengers, not that she communicates with them or that her worshippers can.

Does at that...I stand corrected.

MoshingChris wrote:

Actually most mulhorandi deities allow the raising of undead according to lost empires. The undead raised However are neutral aligned and don't have typical drain on hits etc which means amian undead calling isn't appropriate.

I'm just curious where you got this as all sources I have dispute it. Merely having links to the Negative Energy Plane doesn't make an undead evil as negative energy is much like any other element, alignment free. The only free-willed undead without ability/life draining such are those very few species originating on the Positive Energy plane (and those usually have energy overload type abilities). All references to Egyptian/Mulhorandi non-evil undead very much do drain abilities/life/etc, they're just neutral or good.

Obviously DMs are going to do whatever they wish in their own sandboxes, but for the sake of RP, I'd love to see it scripted so someone worshipping Osiris or Neph by default would summon a neutral or good mummy dust without hoopjumping as to me it really doesn't make a lot of sense to sacrifice to get something that's default flavor and a major cornerstone of the entire religion's lore. The downside of running around with a neutral or good mummy seems to be more than the upside, as you're running around a foreign land with an undead who's culture is by and large going to assume you're evil and act painfully appropriately. Hah.

Page 121 Powers and Pantheons:

"Osiris despises sentient evil invoked undead"

The undead that Mulhorandi dieties allow are not sentient or they are specially risen and condoned undead with <dieties> and the ba component of the originator of the corpse, consent.

In other words the diety allows the soul of the corpse to return to the body for a time to achieve a goal. This occurs with the souls permission so the undead is not bound to service. The priests of Osiris perform specific rituals to ensure that Mummies don't accidentally rise and can act as fonts for Osiris divine will. That said Mulhorandi' raised undead are specifically construed in multiple articles as more construct than undead possessing none of the negative abilities associated with undead.

Please summon undead!
Please please please!

Imagine the RP that would spring if the EO found out!

Pantheon vs pantheon!

Imagine the RP that can be invoked by a Priest of Osiris, or Priestess of Nephthys needing to create such an undead, I can imagine it being quite fun, interesting, thought provoking and in essence a huge step in character building and bringing said priest or priestess closer to their god/dess.

But to have a priest/ess of even a god/dess that finds certain undead permissible being able to, even willing to, summon undead at will is disturbing. In the case of Osiris, it should always be done with reverence for the soul and only when absolutely necessary, as calling a soul back from the afterlife is no small thing to the Mulhorandi. Most Mulans spend their whole lives preparing for the next, and the case is pretty similar for Nephthys. Temple and tomb guardians do so voluntarily, they sacrifice their afterlife for others, but they are different than summoning undead, a summons does not have to be willing, the spell compels them to obey for its duration. This puts them in a very different category than the willing, voluntary temple and tomb guardians. As compelling a Mulan to sacrifice their afterlife is seen as a huge breech of social etiquette and though not 'evil' could be seen as such by the soul having been called against its will.

Without reference to source, I imagine priests of the church might be granted a willing guardian mummy to serve as their private enforcer. It is expected that the cleric use her servant in defense of the church and the people she is sworn to represent - not problematic in terms of DM supervision any more so than normal clerical conduct, as that's the expectation for every cleric spell and resource.

The details of summoning (as opposed to storing in a box and waking up periodically) are murky on Amia in any case, due to NWN mechanics, so it's probably reasonable to assume that they be magically pulled from some holy crypt of sworn defenders. It's not like this mummy (speaking of the EMD spell here) would be animated at will from a peaceful afterlife, but rather it's someone already dedicated to serving his/her old church after death and just waits to be summoned when needed. This is perfectly plausible, fitting and would be conductive to good storytelling, if not conclusively shown in any lore I know of.

No, this isn't necessarily the norm in the church. But if there's a desire to introduce such guardians in the form of Epic Mummy Dust, I don't see why it has to be difficult. This is just a lore-viable explanation I pulled out of my ass, I'm sure others with more time could do better.

It's not called a "Pharaoh sentinel" for nothing.

I personally like ironangels idea. My old mulans the 2 who.are dead wouldn't mind being risen. It is ultimate honor

It's something that would probably be beneficial to run by the DMs when you're planning to pick the epic spell, but I personally don't see why one would have to make a big issue about something that can be so readily explained.

I'd rather leave that to DC requesting. There's a fine line between appropriate and blatant misuse of honored Mulan Good Undead, granted by those in allegiance with Horus-Re (read everyone save Sebek and Set).

If it was made a standard thing, I can see people summoning these undead to boss hunt and solo already and that cheapens how Good Undead are treated by these people.

And before someone says that it's no different than summoning a celestial for the same thing as a cleric of, say, Lathander. Well, I beg to differ. Summoning a celestial to hunt for loot as a Cleric of Lathander can have many very easy answers. One of the easiest is to say you're raising money for the Church or the needy. Such a basic task for a Cleric of Osiris, on the other hand should not require the use of an honored Undead Mulan. There are plenty of other options to consider before one would even think of using such an Undead. Remember, these are willing Mulan that are here to defend the Mulhorandi empire, not your pocket book.

Personally, I would only entrust something like that under request and with the obvious stipulation that the misuse of the summon would result in it being taken away, along with whatever else is RPly appropriate.

It really is all in the "honor" concept in Mulhorandi culture when compared to the West here.

Quote:

Portfolio: Wealth, trade, protector of children and the dead

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The church of Nephthys is involved in the burial rights of every noble or member of the middle class. The clergy are primarily responsible for for the safeguarding of goods the deceased wish to bring to the afterlife. They also serve as executioners of the will and testament of the deceased, if any.

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Nephthys's clerics are also responsible for conveying the prepared body to the burial chamber, setting the defensive wards, and sealing the crypt to prevent tomb robbers from gaining entrance in a grand ceremony known as the Passage Onward.

I feel the above information is relevant, however I should add that Jergal allows his clergy to seek personal unlife despite his portfolio including 'proper burial' and 'guardian of tombs'. Ultimately I think it's a judgement call the DMs should make for the sake of maintaining consistency in the setting.

Nephthys and the Undead

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