AMIA ARCHIVE :: View topic - Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?

Choosing not to play a race you find interesting because its mechanically weak is still dissapointing, despite what you say.

A Dwarf (or more properly, Dorf) is a short guy who is made of muscle and beard and alcohol and awesome. No member of dwarf society can function without alcohol. Even their infants are made to chug a whole keg of ale down before Mommy ever lets the baby near her nipples (although, given the liquor intake of the average dwarven mother, she probably lactates eggnog). They like to live in dwarven fortresses. Dwarf characters should have one or a combination of the words "beer", "beard", "bronze", "stone", "Urist", "iron", "hammer", or "axe" in their names. A good example would be Hammer McShieldbearded.

Looks like bingo night..

And now with regular AND fungi brews. Not even the posh Goldies can complain about not having Rift drinks in Barak Runedar.

Didn't have time to read the whole of the thread, but I'll answer on a hunch. The dwarven culture is very oppressive by nature, and playing a more deviant character is certain to face a lot of pressure from more conservative viewpoints, but the core point of my original post in this thread was that dwarves aren't quite the stereotype often represented by the wanton hooligans who leave their homes to change their lifestyle into pub-crawl. In fact they are a variegated people with an immensely rich history and culture that currently is not exploited to the fullest.

You can not get away from the Norse reference for the simple reasons that dwarves have their origin in Norse and closely related pagan Germanic folklore. Fantasy dwarves are shamelessly copied from Tolkien who in turn shamelessly copied from Norse mythology. Even the names are only slightly altered from their original. Fili, Kili, Dvalinn, Bömbúrr, Bifurr, Fundin, Thrain, Thorin, Dóri, Nóri, Ori and many others are all named dwarves in Völuspá.

And I think that is a good thing. That makes dwarves very "real" creatures, with a rich and long history for those who bother to look it up. Perhaps it is only because I am a Scandinavian, but the idea of dwarves fall naturally to me, and they do not appear strange and alien to my imagination precisely because their abundance in local folklore and mythology.

Of all the standard fantasy race, I think dwarves are the most interesting and easiest to relate to. They are very much like us in that they exhibit some of our most loathed vices of holding long grudges, greed, hatred yet also presenting heroic virtues of defiance, unflinching loyalty and self-sacrifice.

Also, the popular image of "vikings" is so inaccurate that it might as well be fantasy.

Uncle-Opustus wrote:

Honestly, that's what I enjoy so much about Dwarven Barbarians. They're the antithesis of their own culture since they can only be neutral or chaotic. Outcast from your own society while pretty much being identified as "dorf", and maybe even trying desperately to cling to that identity yourself.... even when your own people won't accept you among them.

My wizard Durung is chaotic good and it sort of shows. He never goes to Barak for a reason.

...passed during an informal diplomatic visit and celebration at the dwarven citadel Barak Runedar

You simply can't beat this.

Come play with us!

Author:	Manarethan [ Sun, Nov 04 2012, 14:48 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
That said, I don't want to derail this request, so lets not discuss that point. As for myself in relation to dwarves, I've never been able to play them because as people before me have said, they seem to all be the same to me. Not in the sense that I find all the dwarves played on Amia the same, because I know that you guys have some really varied and interesting dwarves running around. What I mean is that every time I consider a dwarf character, I find myself instantly turning to a great deal of cliches in order to create their personality and background. I just can't seem to come up with a dwarf that isn't stereotypical and boring, and so they never get past the theoretical stage. I'm sure if some inspiration managed to strike I'd enjoy playing one, but as it stands I just can't conceive an interesting dwarf I'd want to play. Plus, I can't make more characters at the moment or various people (Bobo) will hit me. Regardless, the dwarves in Barak Runedar seem to have been doing some pretty interesting stuff lately, so I'm interested in how they progress.

Author:	QPR [ Sun, Nov 04 2012, 19:57 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Dwarves are difficult to play because they have stronger stereotypes than other races, and have stats and racial bonuses that favour the aformentioned stereotypes. That is no reason to follow them however. When I made Dáin Saltbeard is was out of a wish to break out of the tolkienesque norm for a dwarf without making it silly. He is a craftsman, but in shipbuilding and fishing rather than metalwork. Honour matters just as much to him as any other dwarf, but he applies it to ship and shipmates first rather than a particular Hold or Clan. He does not use axes except for throwing, but is quite deadly with the saber instead. And he follows the dwarven creed of community first, at the cost of ones own life is necessary, which gained him the respect of those who might have been sceptical to his antics at first. Point being, it is quite possible to play outside the craftsman/heavy armour/axe wielding warrior without compromising on what I see as basic dwarven values. I did not stop playing Dáin because Reddok or others made jokes at his expense, Dáin was quite able to retort in equal measure, but because i did not have time to play NwN anymore. That might change now, and if I do come back, Dáin is the first char I will play because he is the one I enjoy the most. I do encourage others to try out different kinds of dwarves. You will have to earn trust and respect from the Brogendstein dwarves when you do make a point of being different, but they will reognise honour, commitment and proper dwarven values even if it wears a silly hat.

Author:	Slade [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 7:52 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Despite what you may feel or like, 9 of out 10 race/class choices are complimentary and you're really not likely to find half-orc wizard pcs or tiefling bards, that's simple human nature. Dwarves are a crap race mechanically, much like half-elves. Most races are RP'd as "humans in funny suits" in my experience with others. People don't pick things because they're boring, useless, or inferior unless they're sadists or newbies. That's the basis of ongoing game balance. Otherwise you'd have seen enough harper scouts that they wouldn't have needed a snuffing and radical overhaul.

Author:	Bini [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 8:08 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
That was about as deluded as your explanation of Bebiliths.

Author:	Manarethan [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 8:30 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Quite honestly, you're wrong. I see a great deal of "sub-optimal" race/class combinations, and they do perfectly fine. Not only that, sub-optimal combinations provide some very interesting RP opportunities. I've seen half-orc wizards and tiefling bards, and they were both excellently RPed, and were very interesting characters. Surprisingly enough, for quite a lot of people on this server the aim isn't to make the most overpowered steamrolling character. Its to make one that is interesting, fun to play and provides intriguing RP that they enjoy. Also, there were quite a large number of Harper Scouts before the class was changed. It was fixed because the class was underpowered, not because nobody took it. So its not a case of "what I may feel or like". Its a case of what I've seen and observed. Choosing not to play a race you find interesting because its mechanically weak is still dissapointing, despite what you say. Call me a sadist or newb if you like. (Also, half-elves actually seem to be more popular than humans, so I guess they must not be so bad, eh?)

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Author:	Guardian [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 10:09 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Manarethan wrote: Choosing not to play a race you find interesting because its mechanically weak is still dissapointing, despite what you say. This... On a side note, I have a dwarf PC prepared. It is only a matter of short time before I put him to test.

Author:	Bobo_Underhill [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 16:23 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Actually, half-elves are pretty useless from a mechanical standpoint. Elves and Humans both outshine them in everything. Perhaps I'll dust off the old dwarf I used to play way back before I started on Amia.

Author:	Bini [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 16:30 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Well, that's what Manarethan is trying to say. Based on the longevity and popularity of half-elf characters, what Slade is saying is just not true.

Author:	serbiris [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 16:34 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
I don't think anyone was arguing that they weren't mechanically useless, but there are a surprising number of half-elves around despite that. They're excellent from a roleplaying perspective - long lifespans, two cultures to draw from, no limitation on classes (except for builds with 3 base classes). Plenty to work with.

Author:	Bini [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 16:38 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Thy r pretteh 2. i tink dat conts fer sumtin

Author:	Bini [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 16:42 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
You just regret not giving Andrew some pointy ears.

Author:	Uncle-Opustus [ Thu, Nov 08 2012, 17:23 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Didn't have time to read the whole of the thread, but I'll answer on a hunch. The dwarven culture is very oppressive by nature, and playing a more deviant character is certain to face a lot of pressure from more conservative viewpoints, but the core point of my original post in this thread was that dwarves aren't quite the stereotype often represented by the wanton hooligans who leave their homes to change their lifestyle into pub-crawl. In fact they are a variegated people with an immensely rich history and culture that currently is not exploited to the fullest. Nothing binds you to affiliate with the rest of the flock as a dwarf with a huge appetite for food, ale, and killing, respectively, and very little attention for further depth and detail of character. I agree that most of the dwarves are the same, the same in a way that doesn't even begin to mimic the archetypical dwarf (although such doesn't probably even exist), but we as players are part of the process which determines the climate we play in. The statement that "dwarves are all the same" is true to some extent, but ultimately it is up to you to effect the homogeneity of the dwarven community. Besides, roleplay is interaction, and what's more fun a way to interact than instigation?

Author:	msheeler [ Mon, Nov 12 2012, 3:56 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Here is another teaser to encourage you to call Brogendenstein home:

Author:	fairdady [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 1:40 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
A good old fashioned necro-bump here, sorry all. I would like to implore upon, someone, with the loss of Runa due to faction rules can I get SOMEONE to play a dwarven cleric!!??? The citadel is woefully short of what is a much needed commodity... With the events of tonight unfolding we had no cleric to run to for aid. I cried... weeps And like MsHeeler said.. the place looks faaaabulous! This has been a Dwarven Public Service Announcment

Author:	Tyris [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:36 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Plus there is always Card Night in the Barak Xaveus Headcruncherrr III Much fun today, thanks for including me

Author:	MyOwnDestiny [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 2:40 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
I wouldn't be opposed to giving it a go. I played a bard once that was raised by dwarves... A shameless play on Cattie-Brie yes I know. But anyhow.. I can do the accent and have played clerics before so.. If I can manage to actually get IG, I may roll one up and see how it goes MOD

Author:	Xenos [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 8:18 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Looks like bingo night..

Author:	Amarice-Elaraliel [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 8:58 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Watch The Hobbit and you will lean dwarves are not boring and not all the same! <3 Love that movie.

Author:	Theander [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 11:05 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
I'm playing a dueregar monk. That counts right?

Author:	bobofwestoregonusa [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 16:46 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
1d4 Chan's article on dwarves. 1d4chan wrote: A Dwarf (or more properly, Dorf) is a short guy who is made of muscle and beard and alcohol and awesome. No member of dwarf society can function without alcohol. Even their infants are made to chug a whole keg of ale down before Mommy ever lets the baby near her nipples (although, given the liquor intake of the average dwarven mother, she probably lactates eggnog). They like to live in dwarven fortresses. Dwarf characters should have one or a combination of the words "beer", "beard", "bronze", "stone", "Urist", "iron", "hammer", or "axe" in their names. A good example would be Hammer McShieldbearded. If this isn't enough reason to play one, then you just hate manly things. I play a dwarf or two and they're they're the most awesome thing ever. Thing would be different if Tordek were my dad.

Author:	DolphinRacer [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 17:32 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Most of my favorite characters I've played or encountered on the various servers I've been a part of are dwarves.

Author:	Tyris [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 18:42 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Xenos wrote: Looks like bingo night.. Bingo is on Wednesdays, cards is on Saturdays

Author:	exquisitelyme [ Sun, Apr 21 2013, 19:17 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
And now with regular AND fungi brews. Not even the posh Goldies can complain about not having Rift drinks in Barak Runedar.

Author:	fairdady [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 1:36 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
HAha.. you guys rock. That's all I can say. You make the struggle worth it!

Author:	Tyris [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 4:59 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
exquisitelyme wrote: And now with regular AND fungi brews. Not even the posh Goldies can complain about not having Rift drinks in Barak Runedar. Gonna have to dye my hair blonde

Author:	Polris [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 7:33 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Dwarfs aren't boring or stereotypical at all. They're also not drunk constantly. Sure, they drink a lot but they have the stomach to handle quite a lot and where your typical human would be piss drunk after 5-6 ales the dwarf can chug down a lot more and still be only mildly intoxicated. They don't fart all the time and they can speak without using lad/lass/ye/etc. It's not true that they're immune to corruption or foul play. In fact it might even be easier to corrupt a dwarf than any of the other good races due to their love of shiny things and precious metals. On the battlefield they are pure awesome, hero material. They will not flee with the rest of the party but will rather stay and ensure their friends escape, sacrificing themselves if need be. I can't even begin to explain the satisfaction you get when your entire party dies and your dwarf is the only one left standing, fighting off the boss creature and its minions and emerging victorious. (That's with the 'boring' Dwarven Defender) On the subject of the Defender.. It's also a lot of fun watching your party members chug down 4-5 potions and casting a bunch of spells before they go into any battle while the Defender just puts his helmet on and takes out his weapon and he's ready to go. And if you have to use a single heal kit you feel like you spent too much money on this hunt. Also, the Defender is tasked to protect his fellow dwarves and his homeland so you get perfect RP justification if you just feel like grinding and boss hunting for a while. I didn't really like the DA:O dwarves honestly. They felt more like a drow society to me than what I picture when I think of dwarves. But that's just me. I also don't like the Norse mythology/references in my dwarves. Forgrimm from Drakensang: The River of Time is a perfect example of what I imagine a dwarf is like. That being said.. I don't play that often anymore cause the things I want to do with my dwarf require other dwarves and at times when I can play there doesn't seem to be any online. Sundays are pretty much booked for me as well so I can't really attend the meetings. P.S: I think it would be a good idea to give the dwarves some crafting perks as they're supposed to be really good with that. Maybe give them a racial bonus to Craft Weapon/Armor or give them a discount on mythal crafting. Just a thought.

Author:	QPR [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 8:41 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
You can not get away from the Norse reference for the simple reasons that dwarves have their origin in Norse and closely related pagan Germanic folklore. Fantasy dwarves are shamelessly copied from Tolkien who in turn shamelessly copied from Norse mythology. Even the names are only slightly altered from their original. Fili, Kili, Dvalinn, Bömbúrr, Bifurr, Fundin, Thrain, Thorin, Dóri, Nóri, Ori and many others are all named dwarves in Völuspá. And I think that is a good thing. That makes dwarves very "real" creatures, with a rich and long history for those who bother to look it up. Perhaps it is only because I am a Scandinavian, but the idea of dwarves fall naturally to me, and they do not appear strange and alien to my imagination precisely because their abundance in local folklore and mythology. Of all the standard fantasy race, I think dwarves are the most interesting and easiest to relate to. They are very much like us in that they exhibit some of our most loathed vices of holding long grudges, greed, hatred yet also presenting heroic virtues of defiance, unflinching loyalty and self-sacrifice.

Author:	Eklund [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 10:05 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
We should build a dwarf fortress.

Author:	bobofwestoregonusa [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 10:09 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Barak just needs to mine more and unleash the Baalrog

Author:	Polris [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 10:44 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
QPR wrote: You can not get away from the Norse reference for the simple reasons that dwarves have their origin in Norse and closely related pagan Germanic folklore. Fantasy dwarves are shamelessly copied from Tolkien who in turn shamelessly copied from Norse mythology. Even the names are only slightly altered from their original. Fili, Kili, Dvalinn, Bömbúrr, Bifurr, Fundin, Thrain, Thorin, Dóri, Nóri, Ori and many others are all named dwarves in Völuspá. And I think that is a good thing. That makes dwarves very "real" creatures, with a rich and long history for those who bother to look it up. Perhaps it is only because I am a Scandinavian, but the idea of dwarves fall naturally to me, and they do not appear strange and alien to my imagination precisely because their abundance in local folklore and mythology. Of all the standard fantasy race, I think dwarves are the most interesting and easiest to relate to. They are very much like us in that they exhibit some of our most loathed vices of holding long grudges, greed, hatred yet also presenting heroic virtues of defiance, unflinching loyalty and self-sacrifice. Yea but the references end with the names. Vikings build ships, sail, plunder and are generally chaotic. Dwarves don't build ships cause they hate water and for the most part are based on a lawful society. Vikings primarily work with wood and live in open villages near the water while Dwarves work with metals and stone and live in carved out mountains. They are obviously very different so why should you attach or incorporate anything Norse to a Dwarf? The thing that gets me the most is using names such as Huscarl. No offense to the person who came up with that but there's a lore based dwarven word for what a Huscarl represents and it's Barakor. That sounds more dwarfish to me than Huscarl which just reminds me of Housecarls from Skyrim and the foot soldiers from Mount and Blade. (Also, Justicars...? I'm guessing that appeared at about the same time Skyrim came out..). The Huscarl isn't really a big deal but with all the liberties Barak Runedar has taken lately concerning dwarven lore I think it would be nice to keep as many things as possible dwarven.

Author:	QPR [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 10:56 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
To clarify: That dwarves have their origin in Norse mythology does not mean that they are Vikings. They are a part of the mythology and folklore -of- the "vikings", but are not vikings themselves. To quote wikipedia, dwarves "are entities in Norse mythology associated with rocks, the earth, deathliness, luck, technology, craft, metal work, wisdom, and greed. They are sometimes identified with Svartálfar ('black elves'), and Dökkálfar ('dark elves'),[1] due to their apparently interchangeable use in early texts such as the Eddas." Houscarl comes from norse Huskarl which means House-man, ie someone of the household guard. If they want to make them sound dwarven, then perhaps Hirdmen? (Though that do conjure some rather uncomfortable associations to nazi organisations) Edit: Also, the popular image of "vikings" is so inaccurate that it might as well be fantasy.

Author:	666WaysToHell [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 11:26 AM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Amia has had a Justicar LONG before Skyrim was even on the drawing board, mind you. Heck, it was the dwarves who built his very keep!

Author:	Genar_Detkasa [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 13:21 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
Dwarves are great, if I wasn't busy wasting time on other characters I would totally make one. Except all dwarves I make end up being chaotic, for some reason.

Author:	Larsaan [ Mon, Apr 22 2013, 14:05 PM ]
Post subject:	Re: Dwarves: How to lure you folks to play one?
QPR wrote: Also, the popular image of "vikings" is so inaccurate that it might as well be fantasy. This, this, this. As a norwegian, it's quite funny seeing how people portray vikings. Not that it's a bad fantasy culture, mind you, but it's far from historically correct, and trying to pin that image to dwarves to boot is a bit like complaining that none of the fey in the setting are wearing green tophats.