AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

First of all, what's done is done, and we are all better off leaving it at that. To the new management of Nec'Perya - all's fair and square, please refrain from posting in this thread unless it's absolutely necessary. This is about Amian drow.

DM Dusty, i was told you were present during yesterday's events in Nec'Perya and i imagine you must have been aware of the plans for this event for some time. If that is true, then personally i feel insulted there has been no heads-up that a dramatic change is about to happen. In the past it has been customary to inform all interested drow players so they could participate in UD-shaping events. I want to know why have you smothered your/our baby in its sleep and thought you could get away with it without anyone noticing.

On behalf of the drow community, i demand an explanation.

Look, the players on that side did what their characters would do. They took the opportunity to grab power and did. I can praise that. What pisses me off is the DM reaction or lack thereof.

As I understand it there were two DMs running the event last night and both seemed to be more concerned with what was going on on the attacker's end. There was no explanation given as to why the city decided to be populated by only by players that were unready to have an invading force dropped on their head. The golems sat unused until they were in the temple, the other inhabitants of the city were nowhere to be found, and we got trampled. The only communication we got was "There's a cloud. Now there's an invasion. Now you're all dead." That's not an event; it's a slaughter and all we got were directions to the corral. It is possible to have fun and lose, and this wasn't one of those times. Of all the people on the losing side only one took it with a smile and the rest were left scratching their heads at best and irate at worst. I'm going to give these people the benefit of the doubt and say that they aren't butthurt because they lost but that they're upset because they never stood a chance.

The DMs should have looked at a number of factors in regard to this event:
1) Was there adequate notification for both sides of something going on? I found out literally minutes before things went down and was still eating when all hell broke loose. I was notified via Skype. I shouldn't have to rely on Skype.

2) Did both sides have a chance? I get that this was a sneak attack, but it was also a sneak attack in the heart of a city of xenophobic nutjobs and an attack on the temple of one of the most spiteful gods in existence. For crying out loud Orcus went on a rampage in Amia because his name got said but Lloth, without explanation, sat idly by while her temple was sacked. Even if she isn't happy with the drow it doesn't stand to reason that she would allow a personal affront without good explanation. Add to that the fact that the last big drow event that involved other player areas had a DM message sent out across the server to call others from all corners to come and stop the threat even if they realistically couldn't have been notified; we got bupkes.

3) Did both sides have fun? Some folks have fun getting smacked around, but generally they see that coming. The little annoying twerp pokes the bugbear and gets beaten up; he knew his actions would could lead to trouble and instigated it anyway and probably laughed himself silly at getting crushed. In this case there was no warning and no chance; we became, instead of individual characters played by individual people, Drow Henchman #1 - #5. We were essentially treated as NPCs, led to slaughter, for the amusement of others. If you want to do that, do it to NPCs. NPCs aren't taking time away from friends and family to immerse themselves into a game for enjoyment.

4) Why isn't there more UD involvement? The UD went from being a happening place to a dead zone and I don't think that players are the only ones at fault here. One player would love to be involved but was ignored when their character was broken and requested it fixed. Sure, some drifted away. Others had no incentive to make or play UD characters as there was little to nothing as far as DM involvement. Just like deities in FR, DMs shouldn't ignore those they serve and if they do they should be replaced as quickly as possible.

Not being there for the event I would as the players of the city ask to see the NPCs guards levels/stats/builds/gear...ect and if they even have any as I know in the past when banites attacked wharftown the NPCs were flagged for plot so could not be hurt but then once the DMs removed that the militia were all killed with a single fireball because they were like 30HP level 1 NPCs because they had plot mode added who needed to code realistic NPCs with levels,feats,gear..ect they had god mode.

That could very be a added factor into your citys problem, if NPCs were not used + they might have been trash even if they were but that would fall on the DMs running the event to ensure everything was in order before attacking a place with guards and utilizing them in a realistic way.

I can tell you last I checked Caraigh Militia we have NPCs like Castan, who has defended Caraigh for years nightly against suicidal undead who attack the town with no notion of self preservation ((So should be like level 30 with gear as our guards fight mid to high level monsters as a common thing unlike say Cordor or Holycity))
Castan is like level 18 with 13 AC and 66HP, no helmet, gloves, belt, boots, rings, amulet, Zero weapon feats or anything useful...but he has turn undead with no cleric levels.

I will start by saying that I do not think the tone used here is appropriate. While I understand frustration, it should still remain civil.

To the points at hand. We do warn active players of an area if something is going to happen in the area their active charas are centered in.

While I would also point out that most of the drow there have not been played in months and months, they still were warned. There was a public post in the Underdark forum (where it belongs) beforehand.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87188

Additionally it is not right of you to point fingers at Dusty for the event. Dusty is inactive and has been for a while which was announced aswell. He happened to be around yesterday and the day before on coincidence, peeking back in. So no he did know this as assumed for a long time.

As a personal note, it has always been an issue that people "sit on their trophies without doing anything with them and expect to keep them forever". By this I mean players who accomplished or built something with their charas but then never use it anymore, either playing alts or not playing at all, only logging in when they hear something specific is happening. Having a break is fine, it is healthy and we all do it. But when you are at a point where you have not logged into a character for months and months and months, you cannot honestly expect just because they did something at some point they will just keep it forever and it remains untouchable. Be it positions in a faction, or areas, or NPC control.

Also, I have planted NPC Spider guards too that were properly balanced, geared and had equal levels with the PCs.

Also, please do not blame Dusty on that. If something was missed in the event, it was on me and not on him at this point because he only returned from a long absence that day. He helped youguys tearing the door down.

Friend lutra did indeed plant npcs that managed to go toe to toe with us in a singular basis, they were simply outnumbered from previous casualties.

What I don't think is clear to people is this was the second battle for the city, with the majority of the npc forces dying to defend the city and successfully pushing back the invaders at heavy losses in the first.

We regrouped and showed up with an even larger group with npc support for the second battle

Gribbo wrote:

Friend lutra did indeed plant npcs that managed to go toe to toe with us in a singular basis, they were simply outnumbered from previous casualties.

What I don't think is clear to people is this was the second battle for the city, with the majority of the npc forces dying to defend the city and successfully pushing back the invaders at heavy losses in the first.

We regrouped and showed up with an even larger group with npc support for the second battle

What Gribbo said, because naturally I can't actually keep away from this thread.

The first attack literally saw us met with NPCs that were ludicrous things like Undead with Heal immunity and level 10 Chaos Shields. To say that the Underdark was 'handed to us' is mildly insulting, and while it was physically the easiest place on the server to realistically conquer it was far beyond a 'simple' task.

Looking back in the logs and searching the word 'killed' in the first attack, the total count of deaths comes to 284. There were 7 of us. That's 60:1 odds easily.

You wound up with this city that was actually defended pretty well, but is so utterly isolationist and has so few people on the surface that actively care for its well being (and for that matter so few active players) that it was effectively a well fortified invisible rock.

Your attitude is ridiculous. Dusty supplemented us and carried us through a lot of the smaller things while Lutra and I handled the entire attack. Calling him out is unfair.

As well as the fact that we don't air our dirty laundry on the forums and pull the entire playerbase into an incident that does not include the entire playerbase.

You were not even there, OP.

I'm tired of telling people to act like mature and civil adults in this forum. I need to leave for a flight soon so I can't post an entirely long essay but I wanted to stand in for now and speak on this one point, now that we've involved everyone ever.

You cannot expect to hold a position and standing while not logging in for over a year.

This goes for everyone. Everywhere.

I support the principal of churning activity and change, and not letting things drone in stagnation. Abandoned faction bases, towns, entire islands and 'cities'. Our playerbase does not have the number to hold this many rights over all of these lands, and when you abandon your roleplay and duck out for your reasons, you can't expect us to tell everyone who comes after,

"Nope, sorry. Reserved. Maybe he'll be back next year and you can talk to him about it, though. Better luck next time."

SamTheGiantSlayer wrote:

Your attitude is ridiculous. Dusty supplemented us and carried us through a lot of the smaller things while Lutra and I handled the entire attack. Calling him out is unfair.

As well as the fact that we don't air our dirty laundry on the forums and pull the entire playerbase into an incident that does not include the entire playerbase.

You were not even there, OP.

I'm tired of telling people to act like mature and civil adults in this forum. I need to leave for a flight soon so I can't post an entirely long essay but I wanted to stand in for now and speak on this one point, now that we've involved everyone ever.

You cannot expect to hold a position and standing while not logging in for over a year.

This goes for everyone. Everywhere.

I support the principal of churning activity and change, and not letting things drone in stagnation. Abandoned faction bases, towns, entire islands and 'cities'. Our playerbase does not have the number to hold this many rights over all of these lands, and when you abandon your roleplay and duck out for your reasons, you can't expect us to tell everyone who comes after,

"Nope, sorry. Reserved. Maybe he'll be back next year and you can talk to him about it, though. Better luck next time."

Bingo. If the Drow want it back, go fight for it. You now have a pretty big reason to go play again, and lobsul is there as always.

Also because while I believe in calling out people that did things wrong, I also belive in defending people that did stuff right.

Dusty hadn't done a damn thing as a dm for the last real life year, but he showed up last night because he cared enough about the drow community to be there and help for the event with two other dms. He could have very easily simply continued to not perform his responsibilities like so many other dms have, but instead he chose to be there, even among some dm trepidation abiut thr matter. Because he cared. So taking the tone taken in the first post is crude and unnecessary, acting like he owes you ANYTHING for doing a volunteer position, in an area of the server that has basicslly seen no activity save a 2 week burst, for the part year and a half.

Again, the issue that fails to remain addressed is that this was not fun for all involved. The winning group may have been pleased, and that's fine. They should be happy as they put a lot of work into things and got what they wanted. As for the defenders, what was their purpose? They served as nothing more than cannon fodder. Again, nothing was adequately explained as to why the entirety of the NPC population of city went into hiding during the whole event or why the notoriously vain Lloth would allow her temple to be sacked. The dragonkin got in, killed everyone, burnt them, and won. The only hope the drow defenders has was a freak chance power outage at the homes of the attackers that would have knocked them all offline.

Let's play a game of Monopoly. We both start at Go. We both have $200. You get the first set of property and I get everything else. Let's see who wins. That's the position into which we were put. No time for parley. No time to be allowed to flee. It was stand there and be killed like lambs at the slaughter because we had no idea what was coming. They chased down those that ran. There was, in short, no reason for the PCs to even be there except for some weenie waving by the PVP lovers. Nothing the drow PCs could have done would have changed the outcome and this is why people are upset.

It's alright to lose as long as you can give it an effort. As some of you know I have involvement in combat sports. Both sides agree to the fight and train hard. There's a chance that you might win and a chance that you might lose. You go in and give it everything you have, but there are rules. They don't let a guy that's 120 go up against a guy that's 230 because there is very little chance the small guy can win and a very big chance that he can get hurt. This wasn't even that; this was taking an unassuming kindergartener out of the crowd, tying his hands behind his back, and kicking him in the dick.

Years ago when I first started I remember Hackums stalking myself and a group of lowberts into the troll caves. At this point I had been playing for about a week. He came in and held us hostage, threatening us that he would kill us if we didn't give him everything we had. We had the time to stall him, get someone loose, and they ran for help. We got some folks that came in there and took care of the problem. Everyone involved had a good time. We were all sub-10 and here's a big bad 30 that can ruin our day as easily as he can blink. We had a choice in the matter of how we handled it and everyone had an actual RP experience. This was as far removed from that as you can get. I have been playing D&D for 30+ years and never have I seen such a Mongolian clusterfuck of an event as yesterday. Maybe it's that it's easier to screw someone when they can't reach across the table and make you eat your dice. How it came across may not have been how it was meant but at the end of the day our reactions will be what they will be, and it's the job of the DM to ensure that fun and adventure can be had by as many of the participants as possible.

I wasn't there, but this whole thing brings some strange stuff - like...

1) Warning was made one day before it happened... I doubt even 1/3 of players were able to read it before it happened.

2) For me especially, 8:30 PM CST is 3:40 AM... Friday 'almost'-morning. Quite a shit time, but whatever, timezone is a bi*ch.

3) This reminds me exactly of what happened, when Banites and Wyrmhold were destroyed. It happened while most of the players weren't online and almost whole server jumped directly at the empty fort.

4) I believe there was a lot of effort behind this and I admire attackers for such, but seriously,... Would they even stand a chance against a city full of drow? Hells, drows are one of the most dangerous creatures, they were in UD, in the homeland. Most of the attackers would be so damn frustrated for being in UD (when I do not count super-hero complex), including problems with sight, temperature, day/night circulation, claustrophobia, occasional poor air circulation, etc...

5) I hightly doubt that drows would rush in a frontal assault, instead using common guerilla tactics combinated with shit-load of traps inside the streets -> especially if there was once attack before.

6) Slaying hundreds during the first encounter? I wonder 'how' or what was the backup... Like, yeah, I can understand that group of 30 players can slay hundreds of orcs during the event, but ... Orcs, not drows in -their- city, under supervision of -Lloth herself- ...

These are things I just -can't- understand and that really makes me feel uncomfortable when I think about it. But as was said before, nothing against attackers or DMs in fact. Just my opinion.

To be fair, I was warning people about the impending attack about a week ago! Though it was IC... On the surface... :,)

My tone is not meant to be offensive, in fact is nothing but civil. I am merely disappointed.

Sam, you're the one taking it a notch too far. There is no argument you can make that will convince us that this event was up to standards of this community. This is not "airing dirty laundry". We have the right express our disapointment.

Tormak, we have no issue with an attempt to pick up the pieces.

Amarice that is exactly the kind of explanation we needed, so thank you. I have no objections to the idea that neglected areas should not remain untouchable. The notion is ridiculous.

What all of you fail to understand however, is that the specific nature of Amia's drow community over the decade has mostly been that of destruction, rebirth and stagnation (especially in the most recent years, especially the stagnation part). Each time the drow underwent the shift from one stage to another, it was part of a story and anyone in the Underdark community could get involved, perhaps even take it upon themselves to influence change. Every time such event occured, Underdark activity peaked out of stagnation and that was our modus operandi. The story went on. Nec'perya was part of it, even though it was not my favourite, because it was the drow being put in a bubble-reserve. That was Dusty's child, and anyone who ever worked on it.

Now some guys came down, handed Dusty and the drow a 48 hour eviction notice, and you seriously don't see anything wrong with that?

Dusty should've said no. He then should've made a decision to either see the story through properly, or if he was unable to - pass the torch to another/new DM, or to the drow themselves to see it through. Either way, our story was written with standards over many years, how dare you deprive us of the quill and ink?

Holy_Avenger.

Comparing this event to the Banites event is pretty off the mark. The biggest difference between the two is that the drow players that are throwing a fit haven't logged in in months to years. They have no basis to be upset that someone finally came along to disrupt their stagnant rp. Warnings were sent through the forums and spread IC for a week. There was nothing happening there for months because no one bothered to ever log in. We are not supporting that kind of behavior as Sammy put it.

Now PCs are adventurers who stand above and beyond 99% of most NPC folk and NPC guards, this is why PCs are so influential in the first place. Second, you weren't there nor could you possibly know the number of resources and players that were present during the event. All of these things can be learned IC, so I advise you to learn about them IC. We aren't going to explain a big factions step by step action because it doesn't make sense to you OOCly.

Unrelated but not fully unrelated, in this whole context something came up that seems a misinformation some players have recieved.

Construction RP, like for example you have just got your area sorted, faction base or conquered a city or whatever and then your DM goes MIA does not require permanent active oversight.

Now let me elaborate that a little. You can't just send a line of "we built a house, please add" to the team. That is correct. However here is what you can do if you want to work on module changes and do not currently have an active DM.

- Inform the team of what you want to do.
- The team then will see if a DM is available to oversee (watching construction RP does not require specific area lore so any DM can do that) should non be available the Team will ask you to proceed your RP in game and ask you to make screenshots of it and send it in.
- That way the team knows what you are doing, what was actually done in game, and can before voice concerns if something seems problematic.

Now the opposite (namely destroying places, killing NPC) does require a DM in the game while you do it. But building in your area does not it just requires DM approval. Not everything will be approved. Like 1 player alone will likely be denied to build his own 10 story Fortress. That is why what is planned to do is sent in beforehand. But when approved and the Team says "go start" it just requires documentation not a DM actively in game to watch every brick you place over the other.

If the drow want their city back maybe they can log on sometime. The group of players who did this are the most active faction amia has had in a long time. And consistently so.

I don't know if my commentary about the lack of availability for fun on both sides of the conflict to be had is being ignored or if I am missing it. If I am somehow missing it please let me know.

On another note, I both love and hate rules lawyering and want a clarification on something. Before the group portaled in both sides were buffed. Now they knew what was going on IC but the drow side just knew "something" might happen. As soon as the attackers arrived it went into an all out melee. As this did not provide for adequate time to be allowed to submit or back down prior to the fight would this not be in violation of the PVP rules, and if not how so?

Edit: Note that I'm not calling for any retroactive changes. I really am curious. I absolutely loathe PVP and wish that PVPers would go find girlfriends, so I don't do it and thus want to make sure I understand the rules correctly for future reference.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

To the points at hand. We do warn active players of an area if something is going to happen in the area their active charas are centered in.

While not associated to this incident this thread was started on, I am going to catch this phrase.

Going to call this incorrect. Argumentation: I have had a character who was focused and center of an event of divine proportions and I as a player was never given a notice nor a chance to be inculuded in the whole happentance because there was no communication to me by DM's of times when I would need to be online OR that anything of this sort might be on the table. Therefore sorry, no, it is not true.

I don't know what to do to make things fun for you goose. From what I saw it looked like some summons were not controlled and started attacking, and then the drow time stopped and disjunctioned us and then pvp began in full.

MisterLich wrote:

From what I saw it looked like some summons were not controlled and started attacking, and then the drow time stopped and disjunctioned us and then pvp began in full.

And this is where the DMs really should have thought things out. To pop you guys so close we can gently fondle your butt hair doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room. One summon goes bonkers (and yes, players are accountable for their summons) and all hell breaks loose.

As for making it fun I believe I addressed that already. Give both sides a fighting chance to do something, anything. At that point we were superfluous to the entire plot and could have made no difference and served only to lengthen someone's PVP-peen

Well, I am not sure what to say. I don't think most of us wanted to lengthen our epeen. I don't have anything to prove with Osiris personally. The fact is that we were supporting our IC ally/leader in their plans and are least a few of us were not in control of what happened because for various reasons we were not part of the planning process IC or OOC. I simply had other things to do so I just tried to help with the actual event when it came around.

What can the players do to improve the enjoyment for the post-assault underdark? None of us want you guys to be alienated I am sure. Personally I want the Drow to become a major source of conflict with us. There is a ton of opportunity here in the face of this loss.

It's not the DM's special duty to inform EACH and every player character of an event, individually.

This was posted about. The attack last week was posted about. Planning of the attack last week was posted about even before that, and could have been found out IC about.

These things could have been learned.

So far, all I have read is saltiness, some (allot of) backhanded compliment/insults, and general butthurt.

The DM's did their jobs as they could, they can't and shouldn't be expected to hold the hands of a fraction of the playerbase over every little minute detail.

As much as I also personally don't prefer PVP (Yes, I'd rather have a girlfriend... thank you -_-), it is a part of the server. It happens, it shakes things up.

Can we please stop talking about girlfriends as if some of us don't have lives or know how to have human relationships? This bothers me.

When an event is about your character or related to your character and it is know. I do believe there should be some information to point it out clearly to the players. Just running an event without any information given to the players about it, is unfair. While I understand the point of inactive players, with active ones, I do not.

Magiros wrote:

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

To the points at hand. We do warn active players of an area if something is going to happen in the area their active charas are centered in.

While not associated to this incident this thread was started on, I am going to catch this phrase.

Going to call this incorrect. Argumentation: I have had a character who was focused and center of an event of divine proportions and I as a player was never given a notice nor a chance to be inculuded in the whole happentance because there was no communication to me by DM's of times when I would need to be online OR that anything of this sort might be on the table. Therefore sorry, no, it is not true.

Your character was "permakilled" by yourself before that event. So... eh?

Quote:

When an event is about your character or related to your character and it is know. I do believe there should be some information to point it out clearly to the players.

There was.. if you looked

Quote:

Just running an event without any information given to the players about it, is unfair.

There was.. if you looked

Quote:

While I understand the point of inactive players, with active ones, I do not.

wut.. active, means active. actively involved.

As someone who has played one of the major drow PCs from the beginning of Nec'perya, I don't feel any salt over what happened yesterday. I may take another break from Amia, but its going to be for real-life stuff, not because I'm sore over this.

Drow RP has always ran close to stagnation and in these days of a shrinking playerbase, I think drow RP felt it particularly badly and we never really achieved the critical mass of engaged players we needed since we only ever had one truly active PC House at a single time. Were the case otherwise, I have no doubt Nec'perya would remain in drow hands.

Still, thank you Dusty for what you've done with us and for sticking with us at the end.

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

Magiros wrote:

Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:

To the points at hand. We do warn active players of an area if something is going to happen in the area their active charas are centered in.

While not associated to this incident this thread was started on, I am going to catch this phrase.

Going to call this incorrect. Argumentation: I have had a character who was focused and center of an event of divine proportions and I as a player was never given a notice nor a chance to be inculuded in the whole happentance because there was no communication to me by DM's of times when I would need to be online OR that anything of this sort might be on the table. Therefore sorry, no, it is not true.

Your character was "permakilled" by yourself before that event. So... eh?

Thank you for placing, once again, words in my mouth. The event I speak of is unrelated and did not go to specifics because of forum rules set by you among others. But now that it was done by you, it was about the Solars. In which I was not informed in aftermath, nor Oocly and only after a week when the matter was dealt with and never given a second chance other than "deal with consequences set by others." And secondly, thanks for placing " on permakill to show your disapproval on this, as was in fox request which was based entirely on natural occurance of colouring. Does make me wonder if this is more on personal level or just general dislike.

Missing Scales wrote:

Quote:

When an event is about your character or related to your character and it is know. I do believe there should be some information to point it out clearly to the players.

There was.. if you looked

Quote:

Just running an event without any information given to the players about it, is unfair.

There was.. if you looked

Quote:

While I understand the point of inactive players, with active ones, I do not.

wut.. active, means active. actively involved.

I already stated that my matter was unrelated. Please read above mentions and you notice that this UD happening is not for me. I dont play UD. I have only one character I play actively.

I did not post anything on your request I would not have posted anywhere else. I did approve it when it was properly explained. I mentioned an event because you mentioned an event. The " " has nothing to do with disapproval but with facts you know and I will not elaborate here.

Quote:

I already stated that my matter was unrelated. Please read above mentions and you notice that this UD happening is not for me. I dont play UD. I have only one character I play actively.

If it's unrelated, what are you doing then!?!

Quick, jack; the lock b4 it's too late

Things change, no hard feelings. I am obviously not upset about what happened yesterday either, perhaps there could've been a little more RP before/during/or after, it just kind of felt like a 'Why did I log on moment' but Nec'perya has seen better days.

And regardless of the outcome, I'd like to thank Dusty for all the work he put into Nec'perya, and to all of the drow I got to influence, and be influenced by. Rock on! :mrgreen:

Amarice, just by placing "" on permadeath, you outed the whole matter in OOC channel, whereas I do not know if it matters anymore. Regardless of that, you have made yourself -very clear- how you have felt of the matter so I do not think further elaboration on that incident is required. Still, my argument against your phrase stands, the original post that is.

Missing Scales wrote:

Quote:

I already stated that my matter was unrelated. Please read above mentions and you notice that this UD happening is not for me. I dont play UD. I have only one character I play actively.

If it's unrelated, what are you doing then!?!

Please read the texts. It is related to what was posted here and therefore related. Hence, it can be discussed.

IS IT RELATED, OR UNREALTED!

OHMAHGAWD

I SUPPORT THE STOP, LOCK THE THREAD

Ok so the overwhelming opinion is that you guys needed more advance warning right?

But you had OOC warnings right?

So what is the legitimate problem? I understand Goose, he wanrwd more RP before pvp. I get that and wanted that too. But with 15 people or whatnot it is too difficult to have people hash things out without accidental pvp especially when the drow hostiles people before we even teleported in.

I don't know what you people want from us.

Last edited by ucfgoose on Fri, Sep 09 2016, 23:51 PM, edited 1 time in total.

MisterLich wrote:

What can the players do to improve the enjoyment for the post-assault underdark? None of us want you guys to be alienated I am sure. Personally I want the Drow to become a major source of conflict with us. There is a ton of opportunity here in the face of this loss.

This is where you're going to be hard-pressed to do much of anything. A number of the characters, for RP reasons, have their characters permadead because of this. There is simply no way they can justify getting that character back into the world after the way events transpired. All the time and talent they put into those characters was erased in an instant. Under other circumstances they would come back to rule again, but with this they just can't. That's a hard decision to make, but one that needs to be respected. That's all part of the price of admission; you pays your money and you takes your chances.

What's cheesing me off more than anything is the DMs that were involved approaching this from a point of infallibility. OP and I are far from the only ones that were there that have had anything to say about this, but we are the only ones that have posted about it. What we're seeing is the attitude that what's done is done and you can like it or you can lump it. In my ever so humble opinion this is the wrong way to go about things. Instead it would behoove both the players and DMs if it was explained that the attackers were ported on top of our heads because of X, the reason why there were few other defenders was Y, and the reason Lloth didn't strike down those that defiled her temple were Z. Those reasons can be purely tactical, a misjudgement, or plain forgetfulness. At the end of the day the players involved can accept those reasons and move on or they can continue to grouse, but when questions are asked and ignored it becomes rather difficult from the standpoint of the person asking to be able to agree or disagree with those reasons and make a rational argument against those reasons or to respect why they were made.

Take a very phrase and say "Al shot Bob." If that's all you know you might call to have Al arrested for shooting him. They come to trial and ask Al if he shot Bob; Al says yes but is not permitted or refuses to give a reason as to why. Boom, Al's guilty, lock him up for life. Now say that Al can or does say that he shot Bob because Bob was running at him with a chainsaw and threatening to cut off Al's head so you have the extenuating circumstances that Al was only defending himself. Maybe Al was hunting and Bob was running around in the forest dressed in a bear costume after smoking the reefer and you can say that it's probable that Al misjudged the situation and thought Bob really was a bear. Maybe Al and Bob are a couple stupid hilljacks and Al was trying to shoot a can off Bob's head, missed, and shot off Bob's ear so instead of life he only gets a year for stupid hilljack tricks. Where we are now is at the point where we know what happened but not why the DMs did what they did, and until they explain it we're left to fill in the blanks for ourselves and hope that it wasn't the plan so we don't get bent over again.

And as for the hostiles, I hostiled nobody. I was legitimately eating mashed potatoes when I noticed I had a couple superfluous holes in my ass.

Missing Scales wrote:

IS IT RELATED, OR UNREALTED!

OHMAHGAWD

I SUPPORT THE STOP, LOCK THE THREAD

Sorry for the confusion. All I can say is please read through the above texts. I wanted to take on what was posted in return by a DM for a reason. It is not directly related to the UD incident that recently happened, as far as I know, but it is related to the overall statement made how matters are handled. Which I disagreed on based on the argumentation given. I am sure Amarice can comment on that knowing his/hers background as a DM and something of his/hers background professionally.

Sorry Amarice for coming on too strongly, was my personal mistake.

Last edited by Guardian on Fri, Sep 09 2016, 23:54 PM, edited 1 time in total.

Genar_Detkasa wrote:

...

Fuck drows, me mate, and bring back Sicarius. If anything it'll give me a reason to bring back Eddie. :mrgreen:

On a more serious note, though.

ucfgoose wrote:

I was notified via Skype. I shouldn't have to rely on Skype.

Spot on!

Wasn't there, don't know... BUT, I have noticed the trend of the above in game lately. Stuff related to Amia should be treated via. PMs or messenger. The fact people turned Skype into "faction mail service" bothers me a little, as I find it very, very wrong for various reasons. One of them is that not everyone is comfortable with Skype or any other means of communication (except for amia-made).

Use Amia-related communication for Amia-related affairs. I think it should be made a rule.

MissingScales, in a language you'll understand, dude, you don't get it - we're not salty, it's not what this is about. You've done shoddy work and we're calling you out! 48 hours man.

You took our shit while we were not there, that is not how you do things in the Underdark! You planned your dick move in secret while most of us had better things to do during summer. Enjoy the new space dude, your blank set of areas. Nec'perya is not your story.

Now get out of here, you and Avernus get out, your trolling is pathetic. I asked nicely in OP, don't get involved in drow stuff.

Don't nobody lock this thread nah! DM's don't. Everyone calm down.

I think we are cooling off for tonight.

I will re-open this tomorrow when you all had a good nights sleep.

Hey guys! As I've been called upon, I'll chip in my two cents:

It's okay to be upset.

To level with you, when Lutra first talked to me about what had happened and what was coming up, I was a little bit peeved with the whole idea. However, it didn't take me long to figure out there was a valid point to the argument. The settlement we've all spent so much time on has been rather largely neglected for a while, and this could help bring life back to it for the playerbase, one way or another.

The UD's player base has always functioned in cycles for various reasons. Either our lives outside the game take precedence from time to time (as they should), or alternate characters are caught up in surface stuff, etc. It happens. However, this happens a lot for us.

Though I personally would have loved to see the home team win, it just didn't work out that way. Both sides had plans of attack, and the visitors came out ahead. It could be the Cubs Fan in me, but that part doesn't bug me.

What bugs me is hearing folks say this -has- to be the end.

It doesn't. Tormak is absolutely right about that. I urge those upset to channel that energy into finding ways to keep the UD alive, and take back what was lost. Put that time and energy to something you can be proud of when everything is all said and done.

If you feel you absolutely need a target though, I'm willing to be it. I know things feel like they suck, and I know sometimes you just need to let it out. Just make sure though that when push comes to shove, you guys treat Lutra and Sammy well. They did a wonderful job keeping things fair last night, and even beefed up the home team's NPCs so they could put up an effective fight.

They deserve nothing but praise, in my opinion.

Cheers, as always,

-Dust

((Unlocking for a short bit as to allow for responses. Just be sure to behave. :wink:

))

What good is locking the thread? This is a forum and is being used as such.

"fo·rum
/ˈfôrəm/
noun

a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged."

Is this not what we are doing? Questions are being asked, points are being made. Granted, things can go off their trolley at points, but ignoring the issues and sweeping them under the rug is a way to generate resentment. When that happens to people that have played this game for years you are showing a lack of respect for the other person sitting behind the keyboard. If someone starts shitposting you deal with that on the side.

As I said, I go back over 30 years in D&D. I still have the AD&D Monster Manual with the bad cover art by the late Dave Sutherland. I first DMed a campaign in 1991. One of the first things I learned was that when the players have an issue with your calls during the game (and it's not and immediately rectifiable goof like rolling the wrong die) you continue playing through the session and address the problem after the session ends. Well here we are with the session over so it's as good a time as any to address questions and concerns of those taking part.

I do believe most of hurt is due to how matters have been or are handled. Which resulta in negative respond. Players going away for a while = concequences placed on them and most of times in negative terms. DM's going away = negative consequences placed on players or simply nothing. It never is that the beneficial happens when DM loses interest, but for players, negative happens.

Regardless of that negqtive statement of mine. I do love the positive approach you are taking to show people silverlining on the clouds. Yet, once perceived negavity takes place, fixing or healing it is harder.

Before the thread ends up being locked again, I just want to throw in my two cents and echo Genar's sentiments.

Overall, I am fine with how things turned out, logistics-wise, some details of the event could of been worked out better on the day itself, but hindsight is 20-20. I fundamentally agree with the DM team on the justification for the event and by extension the turnover of power.

Drow town had become mostly inactive, with myself only logging on because Drakos/Kerath just found the idea of surfacers living in the Underdark insulting. I also just happened to have the day off work. Tormak made a pretty good comment awhile ago in another thread, but essentially, with the Amia player base swelling with new blood, it does seem appropriate that these positions of power are turned over to them for better activity on the server. We had a chance to defend the city, but even if a few more players logged on, I doubt the result would of changed; Drow town itself, was suffering the consequences of prolonged inactivity. The dragonkin seemed to have earned their right as rulers of the new area, and I hope they can draw as much fun in exploring Nec'perya as we did.

I hope to log on over the next few days if I can - time zones have always been trouble for me - in see how these new residents work to promote RP in the Underdark.

DustSpray101 wrote:

What bugs me is hearing folks say this -has- to be the end.

It doesn't. Tormak is absolutely right about that. I urge those upset to channel that energy into finding ways to keep the UD alive, and take back what was lost. Put that time and energy to something you can be proud of when everything is all said and done.

Oh definitely, to rephrase. Thank you for being with us at the end of this particular era of drow history.

To be honest, I didn't really know what to do after things went bottom-up and even considered a permadeath because it seemed to me that it would have been a fitting and funny end that Naltyrr dies defending the Temple alongside with the Matron Mother that he loved/hated most.

But the more I think about it, the more I think about potential possibilities to pursue in the future.

Magiros wrote:

Players going away for a while = concequences placed on them and most of times in negative terms. DM's going away = negative consequences placed on players or simply nothing. It never is that the beneficial happens when DM loses interest, but for players, negative happens.

For the record, I've never lost interest. I just haven't been able to be here at all times, unfortunately.

Otherwise, I know that other DMs were out and about in the UD while I was away though. Maybe not dedicated to the point that that is where they were 90% of their time, but the Team has been available to you guys. Please don't succumb to the thinking that players need a dedicated DM to make a settlement function. It sure helps for major things, don't get me wrong, when DM attention is needed, but remember that the towns exist on the day-to-day even when no DMs are logged on up-top, as it were.

Otherwise, we do have consequences for taking off for extended periods of time. Had I, by chance, returned next week, I wouldn't have this blue colored forum tag (let alone a red one).

Also to address some of UCFGoose's concerns:

Quote:

There is simply no way they can justify getting that character back into the world after the way events transpired. All the time and talent they put into those characters was erased in an instant. Under other circumstances they would come back to rule again, but with this they just can't. That's a hard decision to make, but one that needs to be respected. That's all part of the price of admission; you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I humbly disagree. I think there is a couple of ways that every one of those PCs that died can be brought back. However, if players choose to say that was the end of their character, I can respect that choice. I've made that choice before myself, as a player, and never regretted it.

Quote:

Instead it would behoove both the players and DMs if it was explained that the attackers were ported on top of our heads because of X, the reason why there were few other defenders was Y, and the reason Lloth didn't strike down those that defiled her temple were Z.

To be fair, those details are hard to explain in an IC way in the midst of the event. Additionally there were emotes going on that not everyone may have been able to see. I otherwise leave the direct answers to those questions, and the manner in which they are answered them, to the DMs that oversaw the event as this was their show.

Quote:

And as for the hostiles, I hostiled nobody. I was legitimately eating mashed potatoes when I noticed I had a couple superfluous holes in my ass.

I do know that people were hostiling eachother, so could it have been an honest mistake?

Quote:

#TimingIssues

The eternal foe... In hindsight, I agree that a weekend could have been much better. As was stated before, hindsight is 20/20. It's something that can be taken into consideration the next time a situation like this arises.

Edit:

Quote:

Thank you for being with us at the end of this particular era of drow history.

Part of the ship, part of the crew. :wink:

An insult or a plan?

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