I read that, it doesn't matter. Lets say I get approved as a guest builder. Suddenly the Fort gets 8 perfectly legit upgrades all in a row as I just kick back and knock out area changes at the speed the rp happens within a week.

Door locks? Done. Approved. In.

A food storage area? Done. Approved. In.

Guard crossbows? Done. Approved. In.

Execution square? Done. Approved. In.

Overseeing a new building getting made? Done. Approved. In.

A new Barracks? Done. Approved. In.

Fixing the Inn? Done. Approved. In.

Meanwhile other players sit back and look at the work they submitted to get done months ago that still isn't there, and are like "man sure would be nice if I had someone in my group able/willing to do updates like the Fort is getting consistently!"

It just breeds bitterness and is blatantly abuseable. Worst part is, it doesn't even look like abuse. "Guys he's just volunteering to help out, he's helping the DM team by doing all the dev work for his faction!"

It's so bad.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

That right there invalidates those concerns, because they first wouldn't be allowed without being approved, then after that they would have to be approved to be built and added.

Annnnd if they are approved via DM and RP anyways, then that means they should be added. So it makes a lot of sense that they would go into the module in chunks (which is what happens a lot now).

There is still DM/Dev control over what is happening, and we would have the allow that to happen for it to actually be a concern.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

I don't think your getting it commie and I don't think you will, but as it stands from my understand the system works as follows

Player RP--->DM approved change--->builder---> added.

With the current backlog of stuff as it stands a lot of people go without because is low on the list, Caraigh Mill has been in the works RP wise for how long back when Nivo was the DM of the area?.... but its limited use pushes it back on the list because dev time is valuable and limited so to invest hours of work in a location with limited pay off does not seem logical I get it the math does not add up.

But look at the RP that players are doing and getting no where, the changes were done for IC reasons to help the towns people and make the place more useable with job system PLCs...ect

What this would do is allow us to not waste the staffs time with having to build it because a player would.... and who knows they might get more and more practice and take on others work as well or get invited into the dev team if they want.




Wastes Dev time because they were doing changes that someone else could have done if they offered putting off other requests making them wait longer.....and some requests are just harder for the Devs to do like the again the Mills Inn we are doing a new floor plan and everything we cant just submit a request "Remake the Inn with a second floor add some bedroom larger kitchen big...ect" its hard to describe some work when you could just do it yourself when it comes to table placements PLCs like candles....ect

The PC over seeing the work IC and the one with the vision for the end product you cant just hand it over to someone else or you will then nit pick and bug the builder to keep changing things when you might have just been able to do it how you wanted from the start

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Apply!

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

I... really know next to nothing about the toolset, but, I'm a fairly creative person (31 years professional photographer, Photoshop and Lightroom Instructor, Adobe certified, I might add!), and can learn... if someone wanted to teach me, I'd apply. Just tossing that out there.

@ those who appreciated the words: I'm glad I could empathize/advocate/reflect/etc.


@ Tormak: We've talked about what we each think is the real bullshit, Tormak. I think if you truly want player feedback, and want people (like me, but also maybe others) to see you take it seriously, put up a topic on the forums and don't reject what they have to say. Maybe you'll listen to someone else, if you won't listen to me. It doesn't really matter to me what you say goes on behind the curtain. I know about a lot of things (as you know), I know about more than you know (as you don't know, but should suspect, based on things you've told me yourself) and what I don't know has little bearing on what I currently think, I can almost guarantee you that. Because what I DO know about is THAT bad (re: DM infighting, DM power balance, DM activity, the structure of having "inactive" DMs, the lack of storytelling done by DMs, your lack of coherent and coordinated responses here as a Team and management entity).

I've never blamed it ALL on you, or on the Team as a whole. I'm simply saying the Team, as always, is the best suited to fix such things. It is, in fact, part of the job (in my opinion).


@ SoA: Your post was long and somewhat confusing, but I'll respond as best I can.

First, I think I understood you to mean I'm adding to the vitriol? That's one of the overall messages I understood from your post, besides the fact that you put some words in there that I didn't say and things I have no idea what you mean (re: your insinuation of this "why bother" attitude or that I may be lacking in transparency, and that I should blow everyone's shit up, for example). As much as you say I may not know what you're up to, I've actually been told by various DMs and players about your group, both compliments on the IC maneuverings and some minor detailing of the OOC and such that has happened aside from that. I'll tell you my vague opinion on both, using mostly what you've given me, just so you know some of where I come from. Maybe then it will be more clear.

IC: I respect what's been done by you and your team, but unless something world-shattering or highly personal to current PCs in power is accomplished, your current group pales in comparison to old Banites, Horsemen, drow of ancient times, DM plots like the vampires and of course, The Arcanum. At least to my character. There is a huge IC reason why what has been reported has not been taken fully seriously, and why even if there are things unknown that may lead to huge evil done, unless something huge or personal is then accomplished, the taking over of Nec'Perya and the Frozenfar land claiming and more will be minor footnotes in the long annals of IC storytelling. I think it's important for you to know that.

OOC: I personally cannot get behind the attitude of "stop or leave." I never have been. I might tell people to stop being a drama queen, I might refuse to deal with it myself, but to threaten them with getting kicked out or leaving? Trying to control their fun through OOC means or threats simply because I dislike their attitude? This is LITERALLY what I mean when I say vitriol. There are so many of you that I would tell to leave if this is the attitude I had. SO many. But I never have. EVER. And I would never. Amia, once, was about acceptance. This also means accepting drama, and simply doing what you CAN to mitigate it. "Stop or leave" is not being accepting and doing what you can, it is being impatient and/or elitist and/or not understanding. The only time I would threaten someone with that were in cases of blatant abuse of the actual OOC rules or personal safety, and where The Team had to be involved with the management of said person because of possibly damaging OOC instabilities. In fact, whenever cases like this have come up with me personally, I have almost always been the one to back down or leave or disappear. I want people to be able to have their fun, and I want to be able to avoid their OOC drama if I wish, but I do not and should not consider myself the decision-maker on whether they stay or leave somewhere. That should only be IC.

Anyways, moving on, I acknowledge there are definitely some current things I don't know about, but I question why you ask me to know about you, when you have stated quite blatantly that you don't care to know about me? Or the past here, or the other players who may agree or the events and situations and mentalities and structure and everything that I'm talking about? I think it's pretty clear you just want people to shut up and move on, but the fact is, the structure isn't changing. It's not set up to move on. The current server situation is set up for history to repeat itself.

I mean, I've stated you and those active who are promoting the spirit and quality of Amia as it is, are just simply not aligned with my idea of the what the spirit and quality of Amia has represented (to me) in the past. The guidance/direction has veered, the storytelling has been compromised and the structure of the Team and the mindset of the players have devolved to mostly vitriol (which I did not even coin, we should note). Even if your group accomplished something amazingly cool IC and deviously evil and publicly humiliating to Good, I'm not sure I would take it seriously because the player count is so low. Who is really on to combat you? Does anyone care?

I've told my perspective. I don't begrudge you yours, and I can certainly acknowledge I may be a part of all that's going on. If you want a specific story about me... Caron was an OOC disaster, honestly. It brought me so much understanding of the true troubles going on, it brought me attitudes by staff and players alike to what you're talking about. Tells where people told me to fuck off, public statements passive aggressively targeted at him and even people threatening to leave the server because I was such an "asshole" when I was Caron. You are not alone in what you've experienced, but you are alone in your blind trust and your delusions that the system is set up to help you find new ground and better roleplay. It's not. I think even if you succeeded ICly, OOCly you would begin to see what I mean, as the plotline imploded from outside sources and lack of true storytelling instead of the infighting your group did suffer from. I think you already have seen it, but just blame it the wrong things.

I know much more about you and what's behind the DM "curtain" and what's happened than you may realize. As much as you may claim the DMs and what goes on behind the curtain is not seen by my eyes, I can claim that what is seen by me in private communications and has informed my analysis is unseen by you (and others). Your suggestion to message the Team? Wouldn't it be funny if I messaged the DM Team or put up a post about all the things I know about behind the screen, about what people have personally done to each other or accused them of, or how the DM Team has literally focused on drama rather than storytelling? Hm, no, not really. It would be disastrous. And unbeknownst to you, it's been done before by other players and previous DMs.

It's up to THE TEAM to choose when full transparency can begin on certain things, and when they grant transparency or acknowledge mistakes, perhaps so will I meet them there.

Until then, I am forced to maintain a sort of wary balance between analyzing what I do see (which is more than it seems) and contributing my own personal experiences. If I talk about the secret details I do know, I put people at risk who have trusted me with sensitive information and, frankly, I break the rules of the forums. I feel forced into advocating about the situation because so many others think it's fruitless, so many others beyond that have left and so many of my personal friends have been affected. Not to mention me, not to mention I care about this place, after all I've invested in it.

I also want it to be clear I think the players are JUST as much at fault for much of the situation, but again, I hold the structure and the DM Team as the most responsible. That is what can most easily be changed. The Team is what is supposedly made up of the leaders and guides of the community, both in storytelling and monitoring player behavior. It has stopped being that. My analysis simply doesn't match up with yours.

Lastly, you even seem to contradict yourself, SoA. You tell me to trust the DM Team, but then you say the DM Team doesn't even trust its own members. That seems... well... if not contradictory, at least illogical. Why would I (we) trust them if they don't even trust themselves? Something to think about.


Alright. I think that's as comprehensive for you as I can get! Damn. >.> That was long, too.

?

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

Bitter bitter. Past past, that's what i hear. Do i need to play the Peanuts Teacher speaking again? No body gives a flying fortitude what you think. I feel i have been wronged in the past, but you don't hear me Harping on that shit! Let it go like Elsa! Wow, the past Sin's of the DM Team are still Haunting us? Really? There's like a full box full of complaints, that has nothing to do with the current DM Team. Spoiled Player base is what has been our down fall. Toxic no Gooders that think there false right of sense means something. Shut the FUCK up on Forums and play in Game. Bitches! Game On!

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Deacon Lott-Merchant

Estara is talking about the present, too. Being so quick to dismiss that is turning a blind eye to the problem.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Alrighty, kids. Uncle Goosenheimer has a slightly chilled glass of a half-decent red blend and that means that you get my thoughts on the matter. This may get a bit long and rambling but that's the price you pay for listening to a crusty old man. Please forgive any typos.

As has been addressed, a big problem that is self-defeating is the attitude that not enough players are online to make it worth your while to get on. I understand that for some people you don't have much of a choice in the matter as you live in East BFE and you can't get a lot of people on during your waking free time. For those of us that are on during the standard hours where you can expect to see people all I can tell you is that you need to get on and make your own fun. You may not have a ton of players on but you can find those that are. If you see newer players or characters you should make an effort to interact with them, whether to act as a guide or to let them know that you're not one with whom to be trifled. When there are more players on don't treat them like persona non grata unless their character has acted in such a way as to deserve it.

In short, if you can be on, be on and take part.

When it comes to events we shouldn't be afraid to do our own as long as they wouldn't alter the lore and derail DM plots. If the hins want to run a best booty contest and exclude other races it's alright. Don't get mad; get even. Throw a big bash and ban those that wouldn't allow you to attend their events (or even better, invite them as a dare to have them come and accuse them of bad manners when they don't.) Players should never rely on Group X to set up a festival or an arena brawl or anything else that doesn't require supervision as waiting for everyone else to be first means that nobody will be.

As for the forums the only thing I can tell you is to be respectful of other people here. We are all here for the purpose of having fun. Nobody is being paid to be here. I'm too old and I've dealt with too much crap in my life to have someone less than half my age giving me a load of grief because I bring up a complaint or a query. If someone should raise an issue it is counterproductive to accuse them of whining or having a major case of butthurt. You may have nothing to contribute to a adiscussion and there's nothing wrong with that. If something is asked of Player of DM X allow them a chance to answer before you offer your input as you may be unaware of prior conversations.

As to the DM team, a couple suggestions for you as well.

The first thing I would bring up is that the Arcanum plot is done, over, finito. Now what? We have not had a major plot that impacts the whole of the server since the Arcanum plot finished. As much as players are responsible for making their own fun the DMs are responsible for and must have a major story arc for the players. This is not to say that all events must tie in to this huge plot and it's much better if they don't all have anything to do with the big story as it will leave players wondering if (as an example) an orc invasion is part of the overall plot or just a red herring. Without this overall arc we don't have much reason to see Tarkuul interact with Kohlingen or Wiltun with the Dale. If this has been going on I fail to see it as the last DM event to be updated in a month is the djinn's appearance.

To add to the prior paragraph, DMs should have a couple brief adventures ready to go for groups that may be on of various levels. Not all of the adventures need to be hack-and-slash and they can be more fun when they aren't. When I first played on Amia for this stretch (2012-ish) I was involved in a couple small adventures by a DM right away which gave me a chance to flesh out my character and see what they were about. The adventures also need not take any more than an hour to finish while still offering a little something for the people involved. For examples of what I mean take a look at the adventures that BoB ran a couple years ago.

A final thing I would like to mention goes back to a point that I have made before about conflicts between players and DMs. While players need to understand that DMs exist to provide us a story arc and assist us with problems we cannot solve ourselves the DMs need to understand that without the players they are the lords and masters of a realm devoid of population. There are times when a player needs to be put in check with their ideas; it makes no sense to allow you to be a half-celestial half-tiefer paladin blackguard bard and the DMs are right to tell you that such will not be allowed for reasons A through Z. A problem exists when a player request is either denied without providing a good reason or, even worse, ignored outright. It is one thing to deny a request and offer ways that it can be done or why it is simply not possible with any modification but it is entirely different to just say no and expect it to be left at that. I have been playing PnP since 1985-86 and been a DM since 1990-91 and I learned very early that issues can and do arise between players and DMs and there is a right way and a wrong way to address the problem that crop up. If there is a problem and it isn't game-breaking it can and should wait until after the event has passed to be addressed. If the problem is game-breaking and the DM didn't catch it before the player(s) did it should be addressed immediately so you don't get so far down the rabbit hole that it becomes impossible to fix. To take what someone feels is a problem and tell them tough noogies is no way to run things. If I want to be told no without expecting a reason I can go to my boss or my mother; one pays me a substantial sum and one gave birth to me. If the dice screw me the dice screw me. If I did something dumb I deserved what I got. I can live with my own actions or the consequences of a RNG but I have no reason to feel welcome if someone's only answer is "because I said so." As a DM you should always be able and willing to tell someone why you did something.

That's all for now. You all behave and I'll see you in game.

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So, just to throw it out there for parts of this thread. Kind of a thing to say that I think /parts/ are improving with this.

I brought in 3 friends of mine (one of which was a very old player that hasn't played in a long while), and then one of them brought in a friend of their own. All of which are rather enjoying things, especially with being involved in RP, and even a fun little event on their (technically) first day playing. So at least in some regard, things are seeing an improvement.

Just thought I'd say that as some good news, I suppose.

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Hopefully I'm not going to beat a dead horse here, but I feel for Amia to prosper as it had done before, certain attitudes need to change.


Players:

It's been mentioned a lot in this thread, but OOC influences far too much IC. Metagaming is rampant and isn't helped by the fact there's less players on, meaning less variety of people thus arming people with metagamed information about these people to a more accessible state. My biggest issue is OOC cliques. Note: This is NOT aimed at factions, nor the actual PCs involved, but more so at OOC cliques. It's one thing to have a clan of Orcs that only want Orcs to parade with them and it's another to be a player that only wants /certain types/ of players to be with them. I'm not going to shame names, but I know people have been effectively had a lot of RP progress, development and investment completely destroyed by OOC armed IC methods, solely because of issues with the player. This is NOT healthy and more people than you'd expect do this. Simplest solution? If Grub the Orc played by bigguy93 kills your Paladin in a PvP conflict, leaving you salty, do not never interact with bigguy93's other characters or even more importantly, use other PCs of yours to exclude Grub the Orc from future RP. It's happened far too many times and if it's ever an issue of the other player doing stuff OOC that makes you not want to RP with them as a person, perhaps discussing it with a DM should be a solution.

"No one I want to RP with is online so I won't log in" is a multitude of issues that I can't see changing. Yeah, we can all point our fingers at people who are waiting to play with certain players, but the issue is if we're seeing 2 people on Amia A and 1 on Amia B... the RP is already spread so, so far out. I can completely understand why people don't feel pulled to play during dead times, since it can make RPing with the few people online feel forced and unnatural. My only hopes is that this changes when everything else falls to place.



DMs:

DMing has always been a double-barreled job that I really, really wish was split up. You're not just leading the game, you're moderating the entire forums. A DM should be focusing on enriching the server, not dealing with squabbles. This seems to be the main reason DMs burn out: Players and maybe even other DMs having issues OOCly, when fundamentally it should surely be the DM's job to focus on the server, where it be full on plots, small quests or something as simple as handing out DC request items. Since the playerbase is already considerably small compared to years past, splitting the DM role in to that of a DM and Server Moderator seems very difficult, but is something I personally feel could help with DMs becoming burnt out.

We've heard a lot of "No one I want to RP with is online so I won't log in" from the player-side, but this has equal application DM-side too. In all of my time playing, and considering I mainly play from the dead periods of the server to the start of the server picking up, I either have to go out of my way to stay up for DM interaction (be it for DM events or just simply trying to deal with a request) or organise a time which is during the dead times. If you, as a DM, look at the people online and see the few numbers and think it's "not worth your time" I hope the following can convince you to come on:

If you see 2 people on Amia A, for example, chances are they are not interacting. They could be Steve the Human Druid and Bob the Tiefling Rogue. They could be close to their levels, or the difference could be as drastic as level 3 and level 30. One is grinding levels, the other is running a quick quest. They could be on different sides of the map, or idly selling loot to Hil'rash. As a DM, you have a magical power that players don't: breathing life in to the background of Amia. NPCs are your puppets, and PCs are the uncontrollable spice you need to make your story interesting. Smash these player's heads together, or focus on one. Does being a DM solely mean you need to perform an event for a certain faction or group of people? Too rarely in the past few years had I seen true, spontaneous DMing. Too often is a player put in to the DM role and quickly focuses on a faction or certain plot, but few take the time for driving the smaller player's plots. How can we moan that no one is getting on during the dead times if there are no DMs on, if there is no SPICE adding to it? How can faction members move forward if their leader needs to be on to progress, thus leaving them with no desire to log in? We can argue all day that players need to also create their own RP, and I am all for that, but fact of the matter is the closest thing we get to like the example above is Amarice's Genie Shop, and even that is something players could theoretically perform themselves.


Overall server plot:

Tell me what Amia's plot is, right now. It can be a short answer or it can be long. The issue is, Amia's plot is an amalgamate of various plots and stories which would be all well and good if they were either accessible or less private. Being a participant of a very hush-hush storyline currently, I can easily see why players such as Commie would feel left out if there's an issue such as a race-only event, if the information isn't forthcoming. When the Arcanum plot stepped up its notches from 2013 onwards, it became a global plot that was fought on many fronts, and from what I've heard players LOVED that! Gripes with how certain things were handled aside, I've never seen a plot so elaborate and large that it encompassed so many cliques and threw them in to the boiling pot together.


Last, but not least:

Players and DMs need to take a step back and realise what Amia, RPing and their characters are. When doing my Masters in Scriptwriting, the phrase commonly thrown around was "Don't be afraid to kill your baby". We grow so attached to our characters and we have our idea of what their goals, relationships and journey will be like that it can become rigid. DMs and other Players steering your character down a different path can be seen as all your effort going to waste, all your hopes and dreams for your character being altered... it really, really shouldn't! Sometimes, you need to think "I want Steve to get married to Bob" to be thrown out the window when Bob is suddenly perma-killed and the town you lived in is laid to waste. It seems the attitude to this situation is almost likely an uproar of "How dare the plot go in this direction!" rather than "Well, where do we go from here?".

Any time you get stressed from Amia, leave and come back. If it's a recurring issue, talk to someone. It's a roleplaying game, not an MMO. Stop ripping in to each other and start enjoying the game.

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I think what the player did would play into the factor and if the player did something like metagame info from alts, break rules....ect I have no problem with others basically black listing them and having no interaction with them to avoid putting yourself at risk from that happening.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

Personally I think people seriously just need to be optimistic and recruit people from other servers. That's what I've been trying to do.

Go ahead and be nonchalant about it -- shamelessly stealing players to boost the player count is perf fine imho. We don't get the word out any other way.

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Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers

SOA, I know I wouldn't call it 'stealing', but rather 'introducing to a subjectively better server'. But yeah. In my opinion it's actually both important. I know if I would get my friends to join me on the server, we'd have two characters that are almost inseparable. At least in the short term. After that, we probably would lose interest in the server or play more, but less together. First situation: Good for 'server health'. Second: Not so good. So there has to be some reason for us to stay. Ironically, and I realise the problem of this statement, that would be activity. For us, by other players, by DMs.

So, I think SOA is right getting players from somewhere is good and important, because even in the current state, players will stay in the server. And, I feel like activity actually got a bit better during EU times. Not sure about the US times. So, I'm happy about having at least a group of people to play with.

Another thing I thought about just now: The RP advertiser. I've been forgetting to use it or the Party advertiser, but they help centralise the playerbase. They at least show that you are ready to play with others.

I miss playing with you Estara <3
I miss you too Goosey.

I've been reading through these posts... and honestly I'm a little drunk at the moment... I find a lot of this some what funny.

Still seems the same... And yeah Estara; the site's rules are like the mafia. You can't say anything. You can't speak the truth or you get censored no matter what.

And yeah The dm's don't trust each other they get in the way of each others plots because they don't see eye to eye on anything and cant agree. It's a very stressful environment they work in and their team work could use some sprucing up but hey.


Tbh I've had a hell of a lot of fun weaving plots for my small band of players else where. It was a little intimidating at first and I was afraid of stepping on folks toes or thinking people wouldn't like my idea of plot or my interpretations of lore. But... I was pleasantly suppressed to hear people loved it and they loved how I ran things. It honestly made me feel good about the time and effort I put in to building the plots and events and special player selective events. After being rejected here so many times it was very eye opening... like having a huge burden lifted all at once. Some of my events I learned put the dm in a stressful situation but every one was having fun even though there was pvp no one cussed at each other ooc no one was needlessly cruel they ran with the hits and went with the flow it was fun for all.

Being able to facilitate rp for others and working in tangent with other dm's for the plot and seeing results was very heart warming. I fell in love with the environment.

Looking back on what I learned from a lot of my friends who were dms or who were devs here I can see the contrast and it kinda makes me sad. Amia could be such a /great/ environment and it could thrive... really it could you have such a good set up with the system and you have wonderful haks and a pretty awesome world to work with.

It just seems like the current set up of the establishment is choking it from thriving in to something far better than it is now.

idk I wish I could bring that sort of excitement fun and world building to Amia. Really I do. But it seems there's just been a general problem over all and I don't think it's going to change any time soon sad to say.

Haha Goosey making my own fun has never been the problem here. As I was told I was 'high maintenance'. If you're up for some plot I'd be happy to write some stuff with you hon! Just send me a nudge. I'll come on and give you my all ~

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That would be a case of PMing a DM, surely?

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Hey PS: I just want to say I am glad you are having a great time. Seriously!

Also, really good post. Thank you for the perspective. I think that is all people who have left are looking for.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Same deal Shadow. Glad to hear you are having fun. I did try! I dunno. The declining server status is what it is. THe biggest source of frustration and toxicity comes from right here. The threads. I disagree with people a lot. Thouggh disagreement doesn't mean I have any real beef with a person, nor will it ever manifest in game. Even if I hate your guts, like Elyon, I will still continue to RP with you objectively. Just kidding. I don't hate Elly, and I don't think anyone does. What is terrifying is all the OOC wash that happens on the threads. Open faction postings allowing for meta knowledge of happenings a character would ever know. Death threats being issued by forum, but pvp rules still having to be observed, meaning you can literally say WHATEVER you want onnthe threads and its as though it happened in game, but you can't do anything about it but whimper and say "Stop it". Off topic rants, public bashings, Rants in general (I'm a guilty bitch), DM bashings, player smashings, public requests for characters, items ect... TOO MUCH!! Wrangling all this while having players deliver creamy loads to they're faces is what burns DM's out. They are of course not always going to see eye to eye and argue about stuff, but that's because they haven't been assimilated to the Borg collective.

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Jace Fenneril: Cleric of Sharess.

Michael Harcourte: Painter, Scribe.

Sebastian Mayartte: Gambler, MercenaryDeceased

Sometimes its not worth the risk if the player has been known to metagame in the past you would not say want to let him join your faction of say Harper agents, Shar...ect that need to remain secret for them to remain effective.

Even under the rules page for factions it says

Because the staff understands that players can reflect on the group and if the player wont mesh or is a risk to the stability of the faction you can turn them down for OOC reasons.

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

There's also the chance that you get in the situation where one of your characters is 'at war' or 'in conflict' with another one of your characters.

Faction leaders are given veto power to prevent this.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

Miss you too, PS. Glad you're doing well.

Commie, you know if you (or others) have questions about specific things you can ask me privately. Since you haven't in ages, I'm gathering you just posted in a taunting manner.

Good to see the positive posts here in the last little bit! Hope that keeps up for you all.

Well just pretend I sent you a pm going "hey what are you talking about?"

i'll actually send that to you if you need me to.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

If you roll this thread into an entire ball, you will get the reason why my husband and I don't play anymore. I've seen the same thing over and over again in this thread: The bad far outweighs the good. In fact, my end time on Amia ruined NWN for me for good, to the point I've actually started to play an MMO that, sadly enough, has a better story line than what I was finding on Amia (not a single thing in Amia's story line ever hit me emotionally enough to make me cry, or upset me when a character they make you like ends up betraying your own, for example). I originally left for health reasons but after I had been gone and had been forbidden from using my hands too much until a bit ago, I felt absolutely no drive in coming back. I thought about it, and had talked about it with my husband and one of my friends, but it left a sickening pit in my stomach that made me wonder why would I ever put myself through that again.

I understand "don't air dirty laundry" sure, but that's just another way to sweep problems under the rug and act like they're not happening, other wise they never get addressed (in a way that you're allowed to know about) and it never gets solved. But when you meet people who are younger than those who play on Amia yet act a hell of a lot more mature, you start to wonder. I've never had someone wish my family dead, or harass my husband because of something his character, Izariel, did. I've not had someone creepily follow my husband around because he's playing another character on a different account just to take a damn break from it all, and whisper (or send tells, in NWN's case) that they know who he is so it's best to stop pretending when it was none of their damn business in the first place. I've not had people ignore me because of association with certain people they might not like (as if they know who they really are). So over all, why in the hell would I ever want to go back to that? Why would I want to go where my ideas and suggestions aren't taken seriously? Why would I want to go where my effort has little reward? And why would I want to go where, at the drop of a hat, my so called friends turn on me because of something so insignificant that in the scope of everything, it doesn't matter?

Over all, we were treated as if we were horrible people, when we're not. I survive and live just like everyone else, so does my husband. My husband has seen the inside of a volunteer area/center far more than I'm sure 90% of the people who called him names and made him out to be a bad guy, ever has. I've seen him take off down the street multiple times, running as fast as he can, to chase down a lost dog that would have gotten hit by a car, and then take that dog and walk around to houses until he found their owner while those who taunted, teased, and made fun of my husband, would have never even moved out of their chair. For the first six months of our daughter's life, my husband was her mother and her father, because I was incredibly sick -- to the point I was near death for a few moments -- and he never gave up, he never bitched, he didn't whine; he stepped up in a way that was so surprising and so refreshing that I started to have hope for humanity again. So those of you who judged my husband because of what his character did or did not do, please get over yourselves and realize that the world and the actions of others, does not solely revolve around Amia. It is a game, it's not real life. If anything Amia couldn't be further from real life, because some of the things that you have said to me or my husband, I would have throat punched you for.

Amia is a cesspool of drama. That's all it is. There's more drama OOC than there is IC, and that's wrong. And until the DMs work together to prevent such an atmosphere it won't change. It is possible, despite cries that it's not. You're just not putting in the effort needed to see it changed. You have to be the deciding factor of every argument that becomes out of hand. You cannot let players handle their drama on their own. Amia has this effect on people that makes them act like demented children out of a Steven King novel. They use the words of an adult but their actions reflect those of a child.

I know my words won't hit a lot of people, and honestly I don't really care. I just felt that I left with so many things unsaid because until now, I didn't think there was a proper place to put what I wanted to say. Now that I've said what I wanted, I can finally stop visiting the forums and then wishing I hadn't looked and want to beat my head on a wall because of it.

But if you think Amia is quiet lately, perhaps you should stop thinking that the main reason is that NWN is such an old game and that people are moving on. I can promise you that most of this server's population did not leave because of those reasons. Not when there are so many servers that are thriving with a total population of over 80 to this day.

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I know I'm getting a bit... frustrated with Amia. I know, you don't need level for RP, or at least not level 30, but waiting for a request is a bit too tedious in some cases. I know, DMs have a lot to do. I'm just a spoiled, impatient person. But some subforums (or actually all subforums as far as I've noticed don't get much attention. Then, last time I waited for like half a month, and then sent PMs, just like the announcement 'How to get your request answered' suggests. What happened? I got back resonses along the lines of 'it was already fine to get IG'. But should I've known that? Or is there some percentage of the team that has to vote yes? Then, It feels like the subforums are only visited by two DMs... IG, because it is a rebuild, I can't level, at level 6 RP is pretty difficult, simply because I don't have money to travel everywhere... And walking is dangerous.

I don't know. For me, stuff like that kills it for me too, partly because I try to ignore the vitriol on the forums...

bump it every other day.

they'll get to it faster.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

Doesn't seem to work either. Tired, but it almost seems like two DMs (which is like half the DM team now, AFAIK) simply don't look in there at all. I mean, I'll continue to do so, but it's frustrating.

Yeah, I really don't like the holdback on "dirty laundry". In fact, I'd encourage people to air it publicaly so other players could see who is playing with them.

I've seen a few OOC tells sent to Izariel regarding real life when I was playing Daegan - if that was not a good enough reason for "ban for life", then I don't know what is. It was beyond disgusting.

And yet...

I'm finding it hard to log lately too. You know the situation is bad when prior to the log you check the players online (never did that before, until now). And you don't log unless you see at least one or two of those you are digging for.

That's my current position.

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Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
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Obsidian (inactive)

Just getting it out here: I fully encourage people who don't want to speak up on their take, and those who keep mentioning player attitude but can't provide examples due to forum rules, to message me.


I have no problem compiling a list of people with a habit for being a dick OOC.

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Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers

And thats the end of this particular mudflinging contest. I would suggest all of you who participated to think about what you were doing and what your motivations were here.

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Playing as:
Aleana Xiloscient: Wherever the winds take her.
Jealesyl Truesong: A voice in the dark
DM Prometheus: Bringing you fire