As you can see below most of the changes for Dragon Disciple take place in epic. There have been slight adjustments preepic, like +2 more str, but overall all the benefits you will be seeing will be from Epic Dragon Disciple.
The Warlock widgets were created back in the day when we still had scripting. Over 200+ hours of dev work went into these widgets specifically and I can tell you from looking through the code there was a lot of Sune love that went into these. We have been able to tweak them and alter them enough to functionally offer them to the player base now as a new class.
Warlock will now require a request to obtain, a very good one at that, and will come with the Widgets upon approval. You will take Bard as the substitute class for Warlock. We will remove the song feat from you, and your spells will be limited to only what a Warlock can cast through invocations.
You can also request spell widgets to supplement any invocations that the bard may not already have a substitute for.
I love the Dragon Disciple changes! The boost to things other than just STR will be amazing and I will be putting in a request for my copper-hin when these go live!
Great to see it! Thanks for the work! Are these live now or will they go live later?
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Quote:
18 : 1 AC, 100% immunity to element, +2 Con, +2 Cha, 32 SR
Maybe it's just me, but this seems pretty brutal (meaning OP a bit).
Apart from that, love it. Especially the Warlock class.
_________________ Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem* Alex - Life is adventure or nothing! Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex. ========= Obsidian (inactive)
I assume it'll automatically change the PCs who already have 10+ levels without causing any troubles?
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Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
18 : 1 AC, 100% immunity to element, +2 Con, +2 Cha, 32 SR
Maybe it's just me, but this seems pretty brutal (meaning OP a bit).
Apart from that, love it. Especially the Warlock class.
I mean if you're investing in 18 levels of the class you lose the benefit of other classes like barbarian or WM or Blackguard or anything like that, so I don't think it's a game breaker personally.
I actually really like this new dragon disciple progression. There's an actual benefit to going 10+ levels now, and since dragon disciple has a discipline score I'd actually be perfectly okay with losing tumble to take 20 levels myself.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
I salute anyone trying to request warlock, I think it's super late in the server's lifetime to introduce a class that has such stigma and RP potential. It's been sorely missing... I hope someone does it justice.
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I am Barrack Obama and I approve this message #GoodChangeForAmerica
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That damage appears to cap at around level 19 CL. We have a widget to represent the epic feat of Eldritch Mastery which gives a 50% damage bonus for all Warlock abilities. In exchange for this widget you have to take a useless epic feat and allow us to remove it though.
Will the prereqs of Eldritch Mastery be the same as it is in PnP? AKA: L16 Warlock, 24 spellcraft, Epic Level. So, would a Warlock/Palemaster 20/10 be eligible for Eldritch Mastery? Also, how are the DCs calculated?
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
There are characters that have called themselves or even role played themselves as warlocks/witches through other classes and class combinations. Now with it becoming an official (sub)class of the server is the door open for already made characters to rebuild into "actual" warlocks via requests?
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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
There are characters that have called themselves or even role played themselves as warlocks/witches through other classes and class combinations. Now with it becoming an official (sub)class of the server is the door open for already made characters to rebuild into "actual" warlocks via requests?
There was a ruling made some time ago that you have to actually request being a class like that if you're going to role play it. I know when it came NC made requests for three different characters of his all at once. I can't speak for the team but if a character is already an approved warlock by request I'd say that would be a pretty good door opener.
_________________ Gerald Edmund Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433
Witch is a completely different thing. To my knowledge special classes always needed to be requested (unless like... pre 2007) and I cannot remember any warlock requests outside the one whom this was made for.
The Shifter (no druid) emulation was shaman, which also is something entirely else (like witch).
So if there actually is a warlock that was played as one and requested (or likely not requested) they would need to pledge their case and be judged individually.
Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
What are you even talking about? Simulated PRCs rather specifically we were told could be played "so long as the abilities can be represented by the base classes abilities" that has been the case for years.
They can be played but it needs a request and has been needed for a long time, hence why we had so many requests about class emulation.
There is no further debate needed about that. If you have been misinformed by "many nameless DMs" then I am sorry. Class emulation needs a request for years already and there have been dozens and dozens of them.
P.S. with the exception of up to 10 druid levels on Shifters as Shaman levels.
Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Where was that ever the case because all I've seen is people start requesting things they didnt have to.
It WAS the case that class emulation was fine so long as you didn't want abilites outside what you could achive IG. Thats a fact Amarice. If it was specifically stated you need to make requestes then it isnt some decade old thing but rather a more recent change than not.
Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom
I know what emulation is but never realised it was happening. Is there a list or directory for such or do people literally just come up with ideas and hope something fits?
Sorry to step into your thread with a general question.
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And two years ago people were reminded of our much older rule "you cannot create it freely it needs to be requested".
That said, no further discussion needed here. It is a rule and it is not one since yesterday.
If people say they have played a warlock before they can send their story in for review and we will review it.
That is all that needs to be said here. So if you have a chara you say was played as a warlock send it in with the charas story and details needed to be a warlock. If you don't and want to play one, make a request.
Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
Well meaning I'm sure, Amarice, but constantly saying there is no discussion to be had where people clearly still wish to discuss something... in the discussion forum... is not really cool. Like I know why you say it often, but it's kind of insulting if we're all supposed to be able to sit down where and share our understandings.
Anyway,I asked mainly for clarities sake because like I posted in the RP idea subforum my PC was interested in starting a warlock/witch school, the pcs being mainly sorcs and druids. If they are their own actual thing now, then that changes the goal and what I have to work around when recruiting people considerably.
In equalizers defense I'm pretty sure there was recentish request where we had a DMS straight up say "wait this doesn't need a request for for it." I will check when I'm not on my phone. Either way, please understand that even if someone is dead wrong with a ruling or mistaken, stamping your foot isn't necessarily the way to get people to understand the reasoning and mentality behind a ruling. And likewise, while I was and still am under the impression that TGE is, we as players have to be willing to change our mindsets with the server's sometimes.
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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
There also is no point in claiming "this is not a rule" when it is.
Again a witch is not a warlock, they are different things entirely.
If someone feels the warlock class can represent their (existing) character better (no matter as what it was played before) it can be requested to be changed and we can review it.
The class emulation requests also are no huge epic requests. They are more a registration (also for DM plot purposes due to certian abilities) and a lore/simulated class appropriateness check.
So it is a small request that maybe takes 10 minutes at best.
1. What class do you want to play. 2. What existing class do you want to represent it with. 3. What not mechanically represented abilities of the class you want to RP to have and how (or if you want them mechanically represented, how) 4. possibly alignment/race if the PRC has such restrictions. 5. In case of some classes whom did you make a pact with.
That's all and it makes life easier for DMs in plots and yourself because if people start whining ooc that "you can't do that" you can point them to the appropriate thread.
Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Quick mechanical question: how are the DCs determined?
Is it 10+1/2 CL+CHA mod?
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Joined: 20 Apr 2008 Location: The downeaster "Alexa"
I'm well aware of the differences between the actual classes of witch and warlock. But colloquially a male witch is sometimes called a warlock. That is peripheral to the reason I asked.
But thank for the the explanation. I think where the misunderstanding comes in is with your point number 4. For the longest time--not necessarily now, but historically--an understanding most had was that you only needed the request if you wanted to claim additional powers beyond mechanics already represented. Even when this rule was "reminded" to the player base a year or two ago it blew up for much the same reason. You can be as correct as you want, but if there is a discon nectar between what is by the letter of the law the case and what several players mistakenly hold as a current or past ruling, there needs to a working union forged between the two.
You explain it nicely why dms benefit from people requestinget pnp or pick classes even when they don't really claim more than mechanics already present. It helps to have a reference to point back to. But in turn, many of us find it stifling. To get approval for nothing more than you already have. Addinationally, plenty of players who do act like adults don't oocly whine you can't do that. In protecting ourselves from the lowest common denominator of our player base, we patronize the norm and those who can frankly handle their shit. Likewise, I personally feel that having to request every single thing non vanilla ends up with situations like my Swordsage request, where for the longest time it didn't get approved just because the DMs couldn't wrap their head around a different interpretation of a class than their own. And honestly, I feel thats busted, because it's not your job as dm to make sure that your own interpretation exists via a class request, but that the interpretation put forth has quality and merit to stand on its own. Ask why not more than why.I
Anyway that's a long winded way to say... come on. Let's not do this again, let's not have a repeat of 2 years ago where we dig our heels in and alienate each other. There's discrepancy here and all we need to ask ourselvessel as how do we--WE--as a server make our rulings work for all of us.
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You think Magic is your ally... but you merely adopted the Art. He was born in it. Molded by it. Sometimes, an angel is simply a devil with better intentions.
You are correct, there are many who are sensible about it.
Unfortunately there are just as many who are not. Who RP it wrong, who pick a completely wrong base for what they want to emulate it with because they do not even bother to read the lore etc etc. and just pick the raisins instead of playing it as it is.
For these reasons, you have a lot you can just play... however the rest needs a small request I'm afraid.
And while some are bugged that so many things need a request, others are happy about it and loose their joy when seeing stuff played entirely wrong.
You cannot make it perfect for everyone. Alas in the end it does not need a huge request and so far almost all have been approved (some with small adjustments) and very very very selected few truly fully denied. So it is not quite that bad as it is put a lot.
Going to try to keep this short, most of my feelings have been stated about this rule (by IronAngel especially, how I miss thee) in the two-three threads linked by TGE/Amarice.
According to what I'm reading, you have to request literally anything non-standard to the DM team regardless of PC age meaning this includes grandfathered characters such as warlocks I know existed in the past, some without requests, some with (debatably this ruling went into effect 2011, but clearly DI, TGE, I and likely others missed it). If that's the case then arguably I'd need to write up requests for almost every single PC I've ever made because I enjoy incorporating canon fluff into my characters. There are so many things you can do and take inspiration from in Forgotten Realm's lore that don't require anything besides NWN available classes. I barely have enough time to write up the descriptions I want to for my main PC's uniquely created brews, a thing that would actually help promote RP rather than using that time to request things that I've already developed over years and interactions on Amia. That's without going into the fact making requests, especially public ones, makes many players uncomfortable for a variety of reasons. In my case I'm just ridiculously shy and sensitive. I'm sorry to the team, but no amount of reassurances is going to make me feel less like I am putting my PCS (and creative talent) through other people's judgements. It's specifically why I have largely avoided doing anything that might require a request in any fashion as the stress it would bring me largely just isn't worth it when I already have RL to deal with.
Dark Immolation wrote:
I think where the misunderstanding comes in is with your point number 4. For the longest time--not necessarily now, but historically--an understanding most had was that you only needed the request if you wanted to claim additional powers beyond mechanics already represented.
QFE I agree in the sentiment we should be flexible as a server but it seems like tons of rules (not just this one) are changed and not updated anywhere. It just creates horribly confusing situations like this one that have apparently gone on for years. It's hard to act like a rule always existed when it isn't listed in a stickied thread anywhere much less in any official DM threads about the server (rules, requestables, etc).
This is not the place to discuss that ruling. Make a new thread please.
This thread pertains to these changes and discussing/asking about them.
Warlock no matter what requires a request because of the widgets and roleplay you gain as of right now. If you believe your older character meets the requirements or is working towards them make a request. We have a private DC request forum that just requires you PMing your stuff to a DM. No one should feel judged by other players because there is an option open to all for no one but the team to see it.
Will this be treated like DD 9 wing changes? Just ask a DM in-game at the appropriate level?
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Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
Login: The Copper Queen Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
Joined: 10 Nov 2015 Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
#StraightOutaAvernus wrote:
Quick mechanical question: how are the DCs determined?
Is it 10+1/2 CL+CHA mod?
<,<'
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*So, i've got a question for ya. *do you think even the worst person can change…? *that everyone can be a good person, if they just try? *all right. *well, here's a better question *do you wanna have a bad time
Quick mechanical question: how are the DCs determined?
Is it 10+1/2 CL+CHA mod?
<,<'
Maverick00053 wrote:
And the DCs for each are different based on the ability. I would need to double check the code but it should all be Charisma based.
>.> Since I finally got home ill answer it.
10 + Ability DC + Cha modifier.
I am not going to give you the DC assigned to each and every ability but they range from 3-8 for balance reasons. Sune assigned each of them back during creation based on a ton of different factors and they are VERY fair. You can get a DC of high 30s and 40s on some of these abilities.
I'm glad to see there will be more warlocks than just my Eli. #DCsWellSpentBackInTheDay
As a note, targets with high touch AC will be hard to hit. Also, as it is a widget, it doesn't benefit from haste. You get 1 Blast/Turn, so make it count!
_________________ Eli Hodgewall<{/,~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~X Sven<=={o===========> Qeelak\ | / ,
Also -- DEX only adds to touch attacks up to a certain point in the case of ranged touch. Please note that Expertise/Improved Expertise count for the purposes of determining Touch AC, and that True Strike potions count for the purposes of determining touch AB.
Citation: I've been in situations where touch attack weapons were a thing
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