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So I was just wondering.Why is an epic spell that is seemingly so powerful it can destroy cities,so damn weak...
Its like, it has cool effects and everything,and I am pretty sure that lore wise its power should be devastating.But every time I find myself using it in a PvP battle(Or just random PvM) it seems useless,unless the other player is completely unbuffed...(Which should be never)And will only cause a mere 60-80 points of damage at tops.Right after that,The other player just looks at you with a smile,Brushes himself off and chugs a heal potion down ,Leaving no evidence there was ever even a hellball about...
For someone who invested an epic feat on it,I find it quite frustrating if you ask me.Is there any chance it may be nerfed so it can reach its full potential to actually -Be- what it is renown for? (A massive nuke of energy causing heavy destruction)
Would like to hear your thoughts about this

This has been discussed ad nauseum once before... and.. not sure what the outcome was.

Personally... I don't think any one spell should be an instant kill (which I don't think you're asking for) for a huge area of effect. 60-80 points on buffed opponents where there is literally no limit to how many are hurt, is.. pretty powerful still. Also, perhaps try using it when they are not buffed? That's the real secret to PVP, hitting your opponent when they are at a disadvantage, and you have an advantage.

Sure, it requires some devotion to get, but... really, spellcraft requirement is pretty low and it's one feat... just how "earth shattering" should it be? Devcrit requires far more and it only affects one opponent, and it doesn't itself do damage, instead, allows you to do damage. I'd say they're pretty balanced given the intent and requirements.

Oh, and FYI, to "nerf" a thing means make it weaker!

This is just one of those concessions you have to make when you're playing a video game.

Otherwise bad guy group #8 would just get mad at the Dale, coordinate 4 simultaneous hellballs, and end the city seemingly on a whim.

A hellball has way more power when it should as the lore/situation/dm's dictate. Other then that it's just a mostly weak combat spell.

Deadpool wrote:

So I was just wondering.Why is an epic spell that is seemingly so powerful it can destroy cities,so damn weak...

At one time it could in our lore. And that got old fast. Ask Kampo. "I cast Hellball here, please remove this city block."

This might be better suited for IA, but there isn't any particular suggestion here yet, either. Anyway, That Guy has the general idea. Epic spells as feats were just a bad idea by bioware in the first place. It makes them hard to balance. Too little and they feel like it's not worth it. Too much and you've made an instawin button. The fact that epic spells are already save less, uninterruptable, and don't respect SR is hard enough to account for.

Anything that does straight damage is going to have to deal with healing. Since Hellball is a one-shot deal, it feels like a single potion is undoing a feat investment. My suggestion would be to move away from trying get to do tons of direct damage with it, and instead give it moderate damage, some crowd control effects, and some DoT. That way it has an impact on battle that goes beyond damage; it instead creates an actual hellscape that's a lot more difficult to deal with than a huge chunk of easily reversible damage.

Just throwing some ideas out there:

Reduxe current damage somewhat and add
For CL/2 rounds in colossal area->

STR-based Speed Reduction check a la Web
5% target HP positive damage
5% target HP negative damage
20% Miss chance
+20% Arcane Spell Failure

It's less of a nuke in terms of damage, but more of a nuke in terms of fallout and aftershock.

That Guy wrote:

This has been discussed ad nauseum once before... and.. not sure what the outcome was.

Personally... I don't think any one spell should be an instant kill (which I don't think you're asking for) for a huge area of effect. 60-80 points on buffed opponents where there is literally no limit to how many are hurt, is.. pretty powerful still. Also, perhaps try using it when they are not buffed? That's the real secret to PVP, hitting your opponent when they are at a disadvantage, and you have an advantage.

Sure, it requires some devotion to get, but... really, spellcraft requirement is pretty low and it's one feat... just how "earth shattering" should it be? Devcrit requires far more and it only affects one opponent, and it doesn't itself do damage, instead, allows you to do damage. I'd say they're pretty balanced given the intent and requirements.

Oh, and FYI, to "nerf" a thing means make it weaker!

1.I remember it being discussed but dont think there was ever an outcome.And thanks for the info About the meaning of nerf

2. Indeed I was not suggesting it should be an instant kill,But at least have some respect to the fact it should be so massively destructive (Having an instant kill button would kind of make things unfair XD )
3. I agree with you comment Commie,no spell should be able to remove cities,But maybe as Beldor suggested Have a certain effect rather then just pure low damage...
Speaking of which,There are instant kill spells,But they are subjugated to saves(Wail of the banshee for example)I think if wail is able to kill someone with a mere save fail,it would only make sense if hellball had some sort of fortitude or reflex save as well that will determine how badly he is "hit" by the nuke
I also think It would be nice to implement some of the suggestions Beldor offerd as a "after shock" sort of ripple effect after the whole place has been blown up

Thanks for sharing your thoughts guys

Deadpool wrote:

But maybe as Beldor suggested...

...Beldor offerd...

Beldor hasn't said a thing regarding Hellball. >_>

Dark Immolation did, though.

I hardly think that 10d6 fire, 20d6 Negative and 20d6 Positive is a weak spell especially since it is saveless and no SR will help you out either. Granted it isn't super crazy and may not be up to par lore wise, but if that is the case then we just rename it to something else as there is no way it should be made stronger. It is a very handy spell to have if you use it right, if you start off with using a hellball in a fight then yeah it isn't going to be very effective. I have seen it used plenty of times with devastating effect. I do however like the idea of maybe adding some sort of aftermath effect to it, though it shouldn't be anything over the top just to keep things balanced. You have to also understand that though somethings may not seem to be on par with the books and what not, that this is a game still and sometimes things need to be kept balanced for game mechanics and gameplay.

The problem why I wouldn't take it, personally, is exactly the damage types. SR barely matters for a Wizard who can cast Hellball. And personally, I am pretty much perma-buffed in any situation where it could come up. One thing even is, after it's pretty obvious of pvp and the OOC warning was there, my characters just start buffing. Things like bubblies, mindblank, if you caught me fully buffed, usually also an elemental damage reducer. So, after pretty common, if not mandatory buffs, it comes down to 0-30, or even 0-20 fire damage, 10-30 negative, and 20-60 positive. At best, the spell would deal 120 damage, which is less than half of a normal characters health, at worst its 30 damage. It seems to me like improved combat casting would even be better, just for my beloved expertise. Or other caster stuff.

I think I said before to change negative energy to magic or sonic damage, and either would be more than reasonable for what the spell does.
The positive is currently the only part that can't be tanked by buffs.

And yes this thread has totally existed.

It s a huge, aoe, damaging spell that does pretty decent damage. Balance wise it is fine.

Mages have more than enough tools at hand right now to take on anyone solo.

Hellball

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