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DukeDublin
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 Posted: Wed, Jan 11 2017, 1:06 AM |
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Player
Joined: 10 May 2015
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Alright thanks for the rule clarifications!
Back on topic; as someone who's been under a lot of city bans I can say they provide RP at the same time they don't.
You have less access to where people would say the 'action' happens. I missed a lot of DM event shouts because of that. However I got to meet people in other places, see characters I wouldn't have seen and my character developed in ways they never would have. But the days where you can wander the server and find nobody, eventually roosting next to a plc campfire knowing the grass is greener somewhere else, that's some real method acting right there.
_________________
You will likely not see me as:
Fymor Trueshot
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Budly
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 14:24 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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Gribbo wrote: Assassins and others are allowed to have alter selfs that are not pierced by true sight.
If some one is using one that can be it's their responsibility to make sure they inform any one with true sight what they actually see So they are like the Faceless God's servants on Essos? That to me, sounds like a nasty tool for abuse or metagaming.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Commie
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 16:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Budly wrote: Gribbo wrote: Assassins and others are allowed to have alter selfs that are not pierced by true sight.
If some one is using one that can be it's their responsibility to make sure they inform any one with true sight what they actually see So they are like the Faceless God's servants on Essos? That to me, sounds like a nasty tool for abuse or metagaming. I attend events/go to banned places a lot while disguised. It's literally what it's for. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Budly
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 17:05 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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Commie wrote: Budly wrote: Gribbo wrote: Assassins and others are allowed to have alter selfs that are not pierced by true sight.
If some one is using one that can be it's their responsibility to make sure they inform any one with true sight what they actually see So they are like the Faceless God's servants on Essos? That to me, sounds like a nasty tool for abuse or metagaming. I attend events/go to banned places a lot while disguised. It's literally what it's for. And I say it is an abusive tool to be part of meetings people shouldn't be part of. But that is just my opinion. It is already hard as it is to detect a shadow dancing invised person.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Commie
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 17:09 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Budly wrote: It is already hard as it is to detect a shadow dancing invised person. That's the idea, yea. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Mr. Hackums
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 17:15 PM |
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Player
Joined: 22 May 2008
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It's literally designed to help them infiltrate places they normally shouldn't be. It certainly isn't abuse if it's an intended feature. And whether or not something is balanced is different than whether or not something is an exploit.
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Budly
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 17:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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Commie wrote: Budly wrote: It is already hard as it is to detect a shadow dancing invised person. That's the idea, yea. Yeah I get that, but there is also other things which would help you find one or counter one in PvP that cannot be used in game NWN. Stealth is a broken thing in NWN either way. Mightly off topic now, but I think we can run a circle of arguements here and never agree with each others! Especially considering your name to   I think in the end, whatever is discussed here, we can disagree, we can be a but blunt, I tend to be but in the end shake hands and nod as we leave the conversation. The less ooc bad air we have in the community. The better. And I know, I created a lot on Amia before my ban, and I created a lot on POTM before I eventually also got banned in an disagreement with the admin/owner. I think RP can flourish (is that the word?) even in hostile enviroments as good vs evil, light vs good, elves vs dwarves, The Irish vs The English, or Swedes vs Danes (most wars ever between two people! They got the record!), cats vs dogs and so on. Bad joke there but I think these bans can be turned a not so bad catalyst. POTM has a lot of areas t hat are no go zones for several races, like Drows, but there is still pockets of RP out there or areas where the twisted and evil or just outcasted can RP. EDIT: I stalwartly stand for my opinion that it is abusive. Intended or not, I do not like it. I have a firm anti stealth opinion in NWN and I stand by it, even as my "Main" on Amia is a Rogue/Ranger.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Commie
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 17:20 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Budly wrote: POTM has a lot of areas t hat are no go zones for several races, like Drows, but there is still pockets of RP out there or areas where the twisted and evil or just outcasted can RP. i'd rather not be regulated to 'pockets' due to my (secret) alignment. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Budly
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 17:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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Commie wrote: Budly wrote: POTM has a lot of areas t hat are no go zones for several races, like Drows, but there is still pockets of RP out there or areas where the twisted and evil or just outcasted can RP. i'd rather not be regulated to 'pockets' due to my (secret) alignment. Alignments means nothing on your character, when the Barovian Count Vlad von Strahd bans all calibans and "evil doer" races. Ravenloft is much more xenophobe and afraid of the unknown compared to the average country in Faerun (and people often forget, Drows and other "evil" races are not really allowed inside most settlement), doesn't matter if they pray to Lloth, Eilistraee or the leaders of Barovia or wherever they live.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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OpenTheRift
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 19:54 PM |
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Player
Joined: 17 Feb 2014
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POTM is also a much more gritty and interactive setting. You gotta cooperate to do anything there, and sometimes that means rubbing shoulders with some bad dudes. Also falling in line with the grimdark atmosphere there's much less absolute good staunchly outing evil left and right in POTM. Closest you get to that is more in line of street justice.
Not really a fitting comparison to me.
_________________
bad man
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Budly
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 21:13 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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OpenTheRift wrote: POTM is also a much more gritty and interactive setting. You gotta cooperate to do anything there, and sometimes that means rubbing shoulders with some bad dudes. Also falling in line with the grimdark atmosphere there's much less absolute good staunchly outing evil left and right in POTM. Closest you get to that is more in line of street justice.
Not really a fitting comparison to me. Setting wise, Amia is not very close to Forgotten Realms Faerun at all, ogres, orcs and drows would be shot on sight as far as I know, in any common sense settlement. What I more mean is that there can be more RP out there, should we let Drows not proven to be non evil or orcs that haven't done good inside Kohlingen just cause it is not "gritty" enough? To prove yourself to be allowed inside, is a catalyst for RP and character development I think.  And I think we need party here to, to cooperate to do dungeons. It is hard to solo if you are not going for a good build. And probably even then, most players cannot do that.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Commie
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 23:11 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Drow can also go in every surface city but bendir iirc.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Gribbo
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 23:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Nov 2015
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Commie wrote: Drow can also go in every surface city but bendir iirc. I believe they are banned from winya but I've never been in the city so I can't confirm
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Budly
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 23:32 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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Yeah, on Amia they can. But setting wise to me, it makes no sense that they can. To open your gate and allow a band of Drow to rest in your inns and buy weapons and scrolls in your stores is very odd.
Unknown Drows are to a high percentage, pretty evil beings or driven into evil by their matrons and godess.
Maybe my time on POTM shaped me into a more callous player, but I would not complain if my tieflings or drows where banned from most settlements before they proved themself of not being twisted, evil beings.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Jes
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Posted: Thu, Jan 12 2017, 23:42 PM |
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DM
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole
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Mostly, with two other exceptions:
Cordor: Only North and East districts.
And not Barak Runedar.
_________________ Login: The Copper Queen
Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym
Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant
Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf
See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] The Voice
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 1:45 AM |
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Player
Joined: 26 May 2010
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I have always disliked how monstrous races are treated on Amia, but oh well!
Also I am pretty sure Drow are now able to go into Cordor unopposed (though the West might attack them and any non-human race).
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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RaveN
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 20:59 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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I really don't think comparing PoTM to Amia is worthwhile. Just to start out, the major city at night, is not safe. You are expected to die if you are not inside.
In PoTM, monsters can (more like will) kill humans after very immense/realistic RP that usually takes place in the wild, because the cities aren't 'good' nor are they super fortresses with supernatural metagaming guards everywhere which prevent RP/conflict as a deterrent rather than as a catalyst of potential. Stuff like time exists, and it passes; guards have to go to sleep, leaving the streets vulnerable. You then can be killed without a DM present making sure everyone's hand is being held.
This conflict doesn't perpetuate in circles, because the monster characters suffer significant penalties when they die, as to the victims. They lose their weapons, and their gold and even XP. Plus, they could just not be resurrected.. and never come back.. So naturally, they don't want to die. That being said, since Ravenloft deemed monsters appropriate and necessary to their plot setting, they make these races much easier to become, with steeper penalties for the newbies. This creates an atmosphere of absolutely good vs evil in the core plot setting.
Bans are not necessary because people can't avoid you by sitting in their safe zone. People do what people do when they seek safety, they group in numbers and travel together to shelter at night.
The setting is just not applicable to Amia when comparing the two. I am not saying PoTM is better, it is just different.
_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Budly
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 21:10 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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But what im saying is that there will be no Drows, Goblins or Orcs allowed inside your average human settlement on Faerun either. And if they are, they be kept under watch 24/7, probably only allowed to frequent the slums. Elves in their settlements would probably shot any greenskin on sight, probably humans to. "A ban" is the lighter thing to get instead of being instantaneously shot dead.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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RaveN
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 21:14 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Another curious thing to note that the heatmap of the most player activity in Ravenloft is not behind city walls that have issued 500 bans, but rather right near the starting area, and other adventuring places. A typical adventure can take anywhere from 2-4 hours and you really don't statically care as much about the progress, since the numbers are hidden, and the XP gain hits diminishing returns almost immediately. What you go outside for, is that journey across the fog... because you don't know what is going to happen. There are no portals everywhere, the carts are very mundane. You're not guaranteed to make it to the other side, like you are here, on Amia. Here, people are already at the destination before they've arrived such that they probably don't even want the in-between. They are simply more interested in RP'ing with their clique, or moving their scheduled DM plot along, or even building a faction area with their friends, rather than meeting someone new on the road. Anyways, that's just my perspective. Don't get me wrong, I don't play PoTM, it has it's own issues, it's just very different setting and when it comes to "Why do they not allow drow in" the question isn't raised, because the heat map doesn't show 99% of the player population behind that "IC" gate, which might as well metaphorically be OOC.
_________________
a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Budly
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 21:23 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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RaveN wrote: Another curious thing to note that the heatmap of the most player activity in Ravenloft is not behind city walls that have issued 500 bans, but rather right near the starting area, and other adventuring places. A typical adventure can take anywhere from 2-4 hours and you really don't statically care as much about the progress, since the numbers are hidden, and the XP gain hits diminishing returns almost immediately. What you go outside for, is that journey across the fog... because you don't know what is going to happen. There are no portals everywhere, the carts are very mundane. You're not guaranteed to make it to the other side, like you are here, on Amia. Here, people are already at the destination before they've arrived such that they probably don't even want the in-between. They are simply more interested in RP'ing with their clique, or moving their scheduled DM plot along, or even building a faction area with their friends, rather than meeting someone new on the road. Anyways, that's just my perspective. Don't get me wrong, I don't play PoTM, it has it's own issues, it's just very different setting and when it comes to "Why do they not allow drow in" the question isn't raised, because the heat map doesn't show 99% of the player population behind that "IC" gate, which might as well metaphorically be OOC. I see what you mean, I was a regular there and won't go into details, got banned over ooc issues. But I see what you mean. The simple thing is, they do not allow Drow in cause they are either known as evil or seen as outsiders. Barovia which it is based on makes people really spooked around weirdos.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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RaveN
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 21:26 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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Drow is also way more Taboo in Barovia than it ever was on Amia. The Eilistraee Shrine has diffused the tension between natives and drow on amia for longer than I've played it. It's simply a different paradigm altogether. In Barovia, it is not impossible to have a vampire or werewolf eat you in the city.
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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata
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Budly
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 21:53 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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RaveN wrote: Drow is also way more Taboo in Barovia than it ever was on Amia. The Eilistraee Shrine has diffused the tension between natives and drow on amia for longer than I've played it. It's simply a different paradigm altogether. In Barovia, it is not impossible to have a vampire or werewolf eat you in the city. Oh I get that! I got a old Eilistraeen Drow and Budly himself converted to her faith! Long story there! But I just wanted to point at Amia being a very special place compared Faerun.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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Budly
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Posted: Fri, Jan 13 2017, 23:40 PM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town
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I write again, know that, I love this community and that I now see things different. I argued a lot on Amia before, I argued on POTM. But now I hope we all can have fun and enjoy our hobby here even with different view points and this whole ban ordeal. To solve our ooc issues is the goal to having fun icly.
_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
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