I pondered long and hard to post this. In the end I am now, against knowing better, saying "fuck it" and post it anyways.
What I am about to say has nothing to do with the 'topic' of the Bans thread, so I made a separate.
'Completely' aside, if the problem at hand is real or not, completely aside who is right or wrong, that thread (threads like that one) is another prime example why
1. DMs rarely last longer than 6-12 months
2. Players leave over toxic environment.
Fully aside if 'you' (general) are right, the way things are phrased, handled, "discussed" on the forums is aggressive, toxic, without caring for anyone and how they feel and often plain out rude and unacceptable.
These threads (this is not the first, there have been many) always turn into a piss at eachother, yell at eachother, dish out the dirtiest laundry and rub it into eachothers faces.
It takes the drive of people to play. It takes the drive of DMs to DM or even only look at the server. It is the very reason why many online games no longer even have the admins even reply to people unless they simply ban them if they go too far.
Our society has greatly adapt to the thinking "I do not see this person I can act and slap my opinion into their face with as much vemon and bile as I want".
Developers loose the desire to add new stuff, because every single time they spent 'hours' of their unpaid free time to make nice new things for people, they get a shit storm of bile and aggression from those who do not like it and do feel it isn't all they wanted and a cherry on top. Can you report issues you see? Sure. But report, not wreak havoc and outrage". Are there a lot of silent greatful? I am sure they are, but they cannot compensate for the wall of disencouragement to do anything you receive openly.
Do players make mistakes? Yes. Do DM make mistakes? Certainly. Do we have to every single time, form a fucking mob, blow everything up to gargantuan size and yall at eachother in circles? NO. Yet this is what regularly happens. And it is why players and ppl alike go "I am no longer wasting my precious spare time on this."
Now you can start griping about this post or maybe lean back and reflect about what I said for a few minutes every time after you formulate an answer or a desire that you want something changed and re-think not 'what' you said but 'how'.
Also, in light of the bans, and I think this fits well enough in here.
I am honestly unsure where to put the line between constructive criticism and flaming. If I voice my opinion that a DM could be doing something better, and I get no answer, I don't know what to do.
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
It takes a fair bit of reflection at times to earnestly make good use of constructive criticism.. even moreso to realize when you could be better yourself.
We need to move forward, not backward. We need to take time to better think of how things can be said that will improve our situation and not cause us to squabble.
Brutal honesty and straight talk should be met with reflection and self-evaluation instead of sticking one's fingers in their ears and shouting "I'm offended!"
Not sure what I expected. Not much, hence why I didn't feel posting this had any use.
I am 'not' talking about not being honest and not giving feedback or criticism.
This whole post is about the 'how'.
Should a DM/Dev/player self-reflect if there is criticism? Yes. That has nothing at all to do with the sad and awful 'how' it is usually done here. You can be honest, you can be a critic, doesn't mean you can behave like an ass to someone just because you feel in the right and them in the wrong.
I am by 'far' the longest active staff member for several years now. I have seem dozens of DMs and Devs come with drive, thrill excitement and just as many crumble within the first weeks/months and then either go MIA or drop the hat again. In some cases, sure, RL was a reason. In some cases, sure, conflict with specific persons (even among the staff) was a reason. But I can tell you that most of them just broke down under the waves of negativity and aggression on the server. And even those who in the end left for other reasons, struggled with it.
And in all honesty? Even I regularly reach a point where I just consider to dump it all and bow out. And I am said to have nerves of steel.
Joined: 17 Oct 2011 Location: The Hall of the Mountain King
I never started the post with the intent to create a shit storm, though I had a feeling it could end that way. It's just..Sometimes it's the things you love that you criticize the most, because it is the things you want the most out of. Because you love it so much you want it to be the best it can be. Like parents that wants their children to get the best grades they can.
_________________ I am not weird, I am limited edition
And again, I am not trying to be negative, but the fact that my post seemingly was not even read makes it be more like that. Yes, I asked about the 'how'. Apparently, you are talking about the 'how' as well.
So, my question: 'how'? How do I criticise them without adding to the negativity? There are enough cases where peaceful criticising has been taken as part of the negativity. Without trying to blame the victims, often enough the fact that they react as if I attacked them makes me feel just as negative.
I also feel like too many "not very useful posts" are made. But doesn't that simply means you have to filter out more, in my opinion. Answering to them does not really help anyone. As a DM/forum mod, I am pretty sure you are able to remove posts like that. Just a suggestion, since the whole negative attitude is not a thing where you stand alone. But some people who feel like they are experience negative attitudes just throw them back to the original posters.
I still lurk on the forums to see if Amia will ever fix its problems or reach out to the old guard, but I haven't seen much progress. I'm trying to understand what the topic is asking for but I can't quite seem to figure it out. Are you asking for constructive feedback, or is it just a "be nice" topic? No snark, honest.
@Shadowfiend: Your OP wasn't the issue. Voicing that something seems to go wrong is fine and important. What it escalated, where people literally went at eachothers throats, spoke dismissively of others RP and mockingly, insulting and so on is what the issue was. Bringing up the whole problem, was never the issue.
@robbi20: Criticise without adding to the negativity is all in the way of formulation. Keep it factual. Try keeping out personal elements (I know this is hard). Optionally (but not necessarily) try add some encouragement.
Neg: This rule sucks. The way it is now handled is terrible. The DM team should know how to do better. You must change this immediately and stop ignoring the issue.
Pos: Hey, I am not sure if you have noticed it yet with all that is daily going on, but the ban system seems to either not be well enough defined anymore or simply by now forgotten by most how bans of cities should be handled. There have been some issues I feel that abused the somewhat lax system it now has. Could we try figure out something better here? Optional: Here is my proposal to think how it may work. Please look it over and tell me what you think.
I still lurk on the forums to see if Amia will ever fix its problems or reach out to the old guard, but I haven't seen much progress. I'm trying to understand what the topic is asking for but I can't quite seem to figure it out. Are you asking for constructive feedback, or is it just a "be nice" topic? No snark, honest.
Mostly an "awareness" or reminder post on how so called feedback often escalates into a mud tossing and aggressive phrasing, combined with a plea to maybe occasionally take the time to re-read a prepared post and double check if you are really giving constructive criticism of just vent out your frustration and someone else with pushing the constructive part mostly aside, for the sake of venting some.
players leave because they get ignored has nothing to do with aggression on the forums look at sinfar, problems are addressed within a day and solutions come soon after and all rp is conducted between players with no dm agency here you have the same issues for 5 plus years with solutions to said issues side steps to shift attention to how people conduct themselves on the forums you arent offering any changes, just distractions youre the one with the power, you dictate the environment
Amia will only ever be as good as the people that stick with it. If the "Old Guard" for example want to see progress, they should strive to be apart of it. But i'm ignorant to a lot of behind the scenes stuff and better off for it i expect. Given our current DM count and players, if suddenly a bunch of people came back, their vision for the server would likely be more easily fulfilled given there is likely less resistance these days.
I've commented before that the toxicity and negativity is to high. That we should strive to be more helpful and open. The prime example would be in requests. When someone requests something, and a DM does not agree, the reply should almost never be "No way, no chance." and nothing more. It should strive to explain what is wrong with the request, and what said DM would suggest to improve it in their eyes. We're supposed to be working together to have a good time within the bubble of Amia. So no, Demi Gods wont get approved, obviously. But even if i were to request such a thing, and the post had obvious work put into it, the reply should be more along the lines of "I'm sorry to see so much good work go unused, but i'm afraid this type of character does not really fit into the sphere we allow for Amian PCs." Then maybe some more hand holding or what not. The point is to be polite and TRY to put a little more work and thought into it, if the poster bothered to do the same.
DM's are not the only ones being negative mind, but for me, it starts from the top and works its way down. While it might not really help for the DM, but as a Player, years ago, i found myself reading the forums, getting super upset, and taking that along with me. Know what cured it? I stopped reading the OOC stuff on the forums, for the most part, and post even less. Suddenly, all the OOC drama and negativity does not apply to me so much. So try taking a bit of a break from the forums, and get on into the world and play! Keep the negativity out of party chat, don't feed drama to your friends via tells. Friends don't feed friends toxic brain food!
This is intended to be helpful, and i hope it is useful for some. I'd love to see our DM's and players positive so they can be motivated to give up sleep for just a few more hours of Amia. So that positiveness leads to more people wanting to be part of the team, and more people wanting to be a part of what goes on around the server as a consequence.
Amia will only ever be as good as the people that stick with it. If the "Old Guard" for example want to see progress, they should strive to be apart of it. But i'm ignorant to a lot of behind the scenes stuff and better off for it i expect. Given our current DM count and players, if suddenly a bunch of people came back, their vision for the server would likely be more easily fulfilled given there is likely less resistance these days.
I've commented before that the toxicity and negativity is to high. That we should strive to be more helpful and open. The prime example would be in requests. When someone requests something, and a DM does not agree, the reply should almost never be "No way, no chance." and nothing more. It should strive to explain what is wrong with the request, and what said DM would suggest to improve it in their eyes. We're supposed to be working together to have a good time within the bubble of Amia. So no, Demi Gods wont get approved, obviously. But even if i were to request such a thing, and the post had obvious work put into it, the reply should be more along the lines of "I'm sorry to see so much good work go unused, but i'm afraid this type of character does not really fit into the sphere we allow for Amian PCs." Then maybe some more hand holding or what not. The point is to be polite and TRY to put a little more work and thought into it, if the poster bothered to do the same.
DM's are not the only ones being negative mind, but for me, it starts from the top and works its way down. While it might not really help for the DM, but as a Player, years ago, i found myself reading the forums, getting super upset, and taking that along with me. Know what cured it? I stopped reading the OOC stuff on the forums, for the most part, and post even less. Suddenly, all the OOC drama and negativity does not apply to me so much. So try taking a bit of a break from the forums, and get on into the world and play! Keep the negativity out of party chat, don't feed drama to your friends via tells. Friends don't feed friends toxic brain food!
This is intended to be helpful, and i hope it is useful for some. I'd love to see our DM's and players positive so they can be motivated to give up sleep for just a few more hours of Amia. So that positiveness leads to more people wanting to be part of the team, and more people wanting to be a part of what goes on around the server as a consequence.
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Location: Norway: Home of the Trolls
I have to say I agree with Ama, and the playercount started dropping around the same time as the attitude of people started to change and people became more confrontational. It's not about if you're right right or not, it's about HOW you talk to people, communicate or respond to opposing views.
It could be that this isn't true and that it's always been there, just more invisible or hidden due to a much higher playercount. But I don't know that for sure so I'm sticking to my first theory.
_________________ Adair - Druid and part time treant cosplayer
Everyone! Remember! We are a small and dying community, the Neverwinter Nights community is a dying one and we need to look after each others and try to be as just and kind to each others as we can. I was not always the nicest person, I have my issues, I had my issues here and on POTM. But I love the NWN community and we need to really be careful with how we want the coming years to be.
I hope to see, that any issue can be solved and we can move on. I would even go so far to offer to help in whatever way I can to keep the community tightly knited. Cause I love NWN, I love the RP, there is no other place to go to but the NWN community to get this certain feel of RP And community. It is special, a rare creation that over a decade later still keeps strong for its age.
_________________ Plays: Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise. Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar. Budly : Has gone to a better place. Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
If the "Old Guard" for example want to see progress, they should strive to be apart of it.
I started taking a break after a disagreement with Tormak. Four months later, I got a PM where I was told that the gods of the setting removed my character from the material plane. I interpreted that as "...and don't come back." This was completely arbitrary and done seemingly out of spite, given that I wasn't playing at the time. I have no desire to spend my time grinding out another character or dealing with such heavy-handedness. I'm all for working toward progress from the inside, but for some of us that is next to impossible because of the doors hitting us on the way out.
If the "Old Guard" for example want to see progress, they should strive to be apart of it.
I started taking a break after a disagreement with Tormak. Four months later, I got a PM where I was told that the gods of the setting removed my character from the material plane. I interpreted that as "...and don't come back." This was completely arbitrary and done seemingly out of spite, given that I wasn't playing at the time. I have no desire to spend my time grinding out another character or dealing with such heavy-handedness. I'm all for working toward progress from the inside, but for some of us that is next to impossible because of the doors hitting us on the way out.
I am disappointed that this is the way you interpreted it going down instead of learning from the IC mistakes and consequences that lead to that decision. It was not an easy decision for the team to make.
I assure you it wasn't done out of spite, or any other illusion that you may have set in your mind.
Consider this a warning because you are doing exactly what Amarice was addressing. If you wish to discuss something with the team we can be contacted via pms, or skype. There is zero reason for you to air what you believe to be 'spite' against you because there were consequences for something that was 100% your fault.
As a general heads up to everyone. The DM team is here for you guys. You have an issue we can talk about it. If you had an issue with someone on the team or an issue from 4-6 years ago we can talk about it. We aren't the same DM team we were a year ago, so while none of us on the team may of been present during your issue so many years ago we can still try and address it.
I can understand being bitter but there is point where some of you are only logging onto the forums to spread that bitterness from something shitty years ago. Many of these people don't log in for years at a time or more.
I am the first to admit that we have had some awful DMs in the past. Some of which should of never been DMs. To repeat once more, we are a different team than we were then. How about meeting us in the middle so we can enjoy the server once more?
Hmm. Mav, I thought that was pretty polite. He stuck to facts and said it was his interpretation. It was nothing like the RP-insulting, two-faced vibe of the Bans thread. What part of it was upsetting exactly?- that he mentioned what the Team decided about his character or that he expressed why he thought it happened? Or this thing about not being active but coming back to express bitterness?
I like that end part! You are a different Team. That's a positive side to it.
Hmm. Mav, I thought that was pretty polite. He stuck to facts and said it was his interpretation. It was nothing like the RP-insulting, two-faced vibe of the Bans thread. What part of it was upsetting exactly?- that he mentioned what the Team decided about his character or that he expressed why he thought it happened? Or this thing about not being active but coming back to express bitterness?
I like that end part! You are a different Team. That's a positive side to it.
Its not festivus, so there is no need for an airing of greviences.
Transparency is important, I think they should be able to tell their stories publicly if they wish about the administration, of course in a respectful way. And even better to understand that it was by and large a past administration.
Silence, close door policy, etc is literally one of the points we just ranted about for like 170+ posts.
Hmm. Mav, I thought that was pretty polite. He stuck to facts and said it was his interpretation. It was nothing like the RP-insulting, two-faced vibe of the Bans thread. What part of it was upsetting exactly?- that he mentioned what the Team decided about his character or that he expressed why he thought it happened? Or this thing about not being active but coming back to express bitterness?
I like that end part! You are a different Team. That's a positive side to it.
I cannot talk about his case in any specific detail to answer any of those questions. It seems like a cope out but peoples privacy in regards to this stuff is important.
Now while I won't go into further detail, it won't stop me from calling bullshit when someone is using something that is clearly inaccurate as a means to promote more unnecessary toxicity. Definitely when they are using the fact that I cannot go into detail about the incident to combat it.
Transparency is important, I think they should be able to tell their stories publicly if they wish about the administration, of course in a respectful way. And even better to understand that it was by and large a past administration.
Silence, close door policy, etc is literally one of the points we just ranted about for like 170+ posts.
Yes, but this also means being respectful when you get your answer, even if it isn't the answer you thought was correct, or the answer that you wanted to hear. That rarely happens.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
I had my issues here years ago, with other players and DMs, and I felt back then as if I was the only one being punished in a really messy ordeal. What is the current issue? I am not in the loop but I just want to know what is going on and why. It sounds like there is a lot of malicious weird PMs going around and such. To much bad blood involved between some players around here, cause in the end, everyone is here to play the game, DM or not.
_________________ Plays: Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise. Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar. Budly : Has gone to a better place. Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.
That's a good point. I look at these disenfranchised vets as people that could be lasso'd back with a thorough discourse, as scant as possibility as it might be. And more is always merrier.
I honestly feel that people wouldn't trudge back into Amia if they didn't have a glimmer somewhere that shines with the "Not done yet" neon sign.
Well, I'm not getting a lot of optimism about civil discourse or compromise after those responses and...err...aggressive misinterpretations of my intent. I'll take the hint.
Joined: 14 Dec 2004 Location: Kohlingen, and a Basement in Canada
NinjaClarinet wrote:
Maverick00053 wrote:
calling bullshit
Maverick00053 wrote:
100% your fault.
Well, I'm not getting a lot of optimism about civil discourse or compromise after those responses and...err...aggressive misinterpretations of my intent. I'll take the hint.
There is a reason that, at least as of last I checked there are rules against bringing up specific instances on the forums.
That's a good point. I look at these disenfranchised vets as people that could be lasso'd back with a thorough discourse, as scant as possibility as it might be. And more is always merrier.
I honestly feel that people wouldn't trudge back into Amia if they didn't have a glimmer somewhere that shines with the "Not done yet" neon sign.
That honest, thorough discourse in many cases has already happened, sometimes several times. The same stories get brought up again and again, sometimes in public, but generally under the tilted slant one way or another - the disrespect of transparency has already occured. We're watching it happen, right now, in this topic.
_________________ Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
the playercount started dropping around the same time as the attitude of people started to change and people became more confrontational. It's not about if you're right right or not, it's about HOW you talk to people, communicate or respond to opposing views. .
^This. You can see it daily on the forums, where people are fighting over postings on all sorts of topics, assuming the worst of each other without even asking for verification first. IG it happens IC, and then is carried too often OOCly, and on through Skype and other media chat forms. No, I'm not referring to anyone or anything specific, before anyone comes to that conclusion. I sincerely hope it can be stopped though.
There is a reason that, at least as of last I checked there are rules against bringing up specific instances on the forums.
I know, it might be seen as offensive, but can you provide a written rule somewhere? It's not in the terms, not in the rules section (as far as I can tell) so where is it?
Documentation of rules is pretty important, and at least in my opinion you can't expect people to conform to non-written rules.
I can understand being bitter but there is point where some of you are only logging onto the forums to spread that bitterness from something shitty years ago. Many of these people don't log in for years at a time or more.
I am the first to admit that we have had some awful DMs in the past. Some of which should of never been DMs. Suffice to say we are a different team than we were then. How about meeting us in the middle so we can enjoy the server once more?
While I'm definitely bitter about how it all went down with my situation, I'm not posting out of sheer spite. I would like to play again, and I can't extinguish the vain hope that one day I can. But I've had conversations with the DM team over the years, and the reactions have ranged from willing, but unable to help, to apathetic, to (and this was the final straw) a level of contempt I thought impossible to receive from someone I've never actually had a conversation with prior. The most recent and completely IC approaches have ended with an OOC kibosh, forever silencing my insistence that "DMs will support players in their endeavours whenever able". What recourse do I have but to now and then mumble that hey, I'm still here on the outside, but I can't get back in? I've tried to get around it - forget as best I can, make new characters. But my time constraints and the state of the server means I just can't get into a position where I can set new roots - almost no one is on during my best hours, and establishing a new PC with the playerbase takes time I don't have anymore. And over it all is the lingering dread that it will all turn to dust again, and the legacy of 4 years of work will be a few lines on some old ban lists.
TormakSaber wrote:
Yes, but this also means being respectful when you get your answer, even if it isn't the answer you thought was correct, or the answer that you wanted to hear. That rarely happens.
Well I did respectfully disagree, but at its best this was pretty much the impasse: being told no (and no room for compromise) and me saying, well I don't think that's fair. It became clear that I was obliquely being told to just drop it, and I wish that was so easy. But it's never felt fair, and I still miss the game when I could play it. 6 years is a long time.
OpenTheRift wrote:
I think they should be able to tell their stories publicly if they wish about the administration, of course in a respectful way.
I imagine I'd be accused of heavy bias and at best it would be bogged down in Rashomon-style retellings further hampered by DM information control. There's no clean way around that.
TormakSaber wrote:
That honest, thorough discourse in many cases has already happened, sometimes several times.
You can hear how defeated he sounds. And I've seen it where he's tried his darnedest to make things right with a group of disenfranchised players, and it hasn't been enough. Again, this is the impasse: players are dissatisfied, DMs are unable to resolve it. Or they've tried and given up because nothing seems to be good enough. Or they haven't tried because they don't necessarily care about a given player's issue, whatever the case may be. But some of us can't leave well enough alone because yeah, we'd like a resolution.
I know it at one point had been a rule Robbi.. a quick scan of the rules doesn't show it any longer but I could've sworn.. >.<;
Its still a rule and still very much enforced, I will try and find it later but I have seen it stated by DMs a lot over the years as I'm sure you have..... I don't think I have ever gone looking for it on a list of rules as it was often just quoted from DMs using it in topic before.
_________________ ================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================ Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)
I'm sorry if it was me who leveled you with contempt, serbiris. I know we briefly talked about it all and it ended with my expressing some things really difficult to hear. I don't have contempt, though. I just changed my mind on the whole thing after hearing you out and reflected that maybe your impressions weren't totally accurate.
That said, I hear everyone on all the other stuff. It sounds like no side is over and moved on from the past, older players and DMs. One positive spin is that clearly everyone cares about Amia and the people here so much that these grudges, perceptions and continued conversations are even held. I'm sorry it sucks for everyone, though. Transparency is something I've often advocated for, but I've always respected the boundaries we do put in place at the same time. It's a tough line to walk.
Oh, nah. And we still disagree on what that disagreement even was. But it wasn't related to that. I mean at least you were polite when you weren't understanding what I was saying
[Rule discussion, mentioning specific events] Well, if it's a rule, it has to be listed in the rules, otherwise it's obviously not a rule, right?
I've only seen people reference that rule, but never a DM, honestly. At least not recently. (As in, last two years, only in older topics)
How can I, as a player, be expected to know every single DM statement? Most of all when the DM statements are littered everywhere, because they get said when one of these rules are broken. I realise that updating the forums is tedious work in many cases, but an updated forum is a lot better. Heck, if neccessary, I'd be willing to help out with that. (Of course, I think it's impossible to list every single DM statement, but many things get referenced, at which point updating it shouldn't be that difficult. Look at now as an example. It was referenced, and is likely going to be resolved by a DM, problem solved)
[OOC conflict] My personal experience from the last two days was that while the players certainly overreacted to some things (including myself) I felt like some DMs also overreacted a bit as well. Little props to Tarnus, who locked the Bans thread temporarily, which helped everyone cool down.
I know what I assume is a similar problem, and I've just been holding it in as much as possible. That was part of the reason for my hostility in the Bans thread. I felt like a DM was not doing things correctly, and thought a DM should be better than that. On the same time, I did not dare question the DM, mainly because OOC grudges are a really annoying thing to deal with. At the same time, I know I would likely not be happy with the answer the DMs would give me.
To me, I only see two solutions to a problem like that: Deal with it and try to talk to the people who seem to have a grudge against you, or do the sad thing and just leave. If you manage to talk to the team again, maybe they'll stop hating you. Or you'll notice some other interesting things. I remember how I used to hate Commie in his first few months here. I wrote him a really awkward PM, and after that, I'd say we get along well enough.
The more I'm thinking about the last two days, and my own frustration for weeks, the more I think about how annoying it is that I'm getting this mad at/over a computer game.
I know in a certain way this would likely be better in the "Confessions" Off Topic forum, but I'm too sad to care.
And the wit or wisdom the forum is showing is depressing me to extremes right now: "You can do without it. In theory." If I think "it" means Amia, I'm really depressed in light of this post.
DMs reference to that rule. It is written under the thread: The General Discussion Forum. Every forum has a specific rule that can be found under the announcements of the forum.
_________________ Lord Hector Sylgerand Glendil Fettian, the black bard
TBH I left for a few months because I was not happy with the aggressive environment, I wasn't happy with how people treated me ooc, I wasn't happy with the lack of communication and clarity, and I was not happy with the schism between the team and management and how things were done. I understand that the team as a whole gets put under a lot of pressure- especially the DM's in game that are dealing with the player base in a much more personal up front manner.
I left because I was tiered of being treated like shit. Because that's honestly how it felt and I realized it wasn't a good environment to be in and I couldn't help. I was exceedingly invested in things on the server and the server as a whole. It just felt like no one cared about the investments I was making and tying to do. Most of what I did was to change the server on positive notes and help contribute to her. When you get little feed back from those in power it's a bit disheartening, sure; but it got a point where it felt like It wasn't about dis interest but selective prejudice on certain matters and it felt as if no matter what I would do I couldn't help alleviate such issues. It was something of a paradigm shift.
I realized what I could do was simply take an extended break and start over. Just let everything go and get over it. It's easy to cling to misdeeds or slights against you but it gets you no where in all honesty. I worked my butt off to try and be friendly to more and more of the player base. I'm not sure if this was noticed but I absolutely hated the clique atmosphere and I hated how groups wouldn't try to play with each other or help some sort of standard of disposition towards members of other cliques.
On some fronts I was able to make new friend with people who had previously 'hated' me due to mis conceptions and now they talk to me regularly off site as they have became actually really close friends.
I think Amarice's point is right in many forms as when I ask others who've I've come to know state they couldn't deal with the toxic environment.
I think what really opened my eyes and helped was I was given a great opportunity to serve on another server as a Developer and DM during my break. I learned a lot more there in a much shorter period of time working with both the head dm and other dm and the head dev and the other few devs we had on improving the server as w hole and making events pretty damn memorable and fun.
It was pretty damn awesome. The differences between that server and amia were night and day. We had a very nice, clear ooc system that was server wide that let people get more friendly and act more as a community. The player base was smaller so running events was a relatively easy transition for me as a newbie dm. I got to learn how to make interactions with the players, and groups of layers interesting and unique and it was petty damn fun building intertwining stories for all sorts of types of player characters and letting them find out about other important plot points as they went. It was an extremely liberating experience for me. Everything was pretty positive over all and every one to a long. If there were issues we would just bring it up and ty to wok together to improve and fix them.
I over saw pvp that happened because of conflicting means from layer characters during events and it was pretty amazingly fun. I hosted a few events that encouraged PVP and npc interactions in the forms of tournaments. I was very nervous starting out as a dm as I was afraid people wouldn't be interested in the plots I ran or would be upset if I couldn't' reply quickly to them. I soon found out that there was nothing to be nervous about. I was actually very good at it and people loved the events I ran. Even when preparing for events I adjusted well enough to help-people out and I made it my priority to always rely to some one who needed help. I loved it when I could help some one fix a small problem and I loved how it made me feel knowing I helped some one's experience with the game grow to a much higher standard over all.
We even had pretty epic forums spouting up with lovely pc topics. We didn't really have ooc topics spout up unless an issue was being reported. When issues were reported we as the team talked about how we could best fix it then we would work on hammering out the bugs little. Our main focus was ensuring that we the team was there for the players.
I was getting a lot of messages from folks on amia and I started taking a few peeks. Even though the other server is petty great over all environment side we have a very small inverse community that gets on at very different availability that have become more sparse in the holidays closing in.
I found that Amia had seemingly calmed down and things wee looking good. I've decided to try and bring a rather big group of friends here as things have calmed down. I'm trying to make it a good experience because despite the negativity that exists this is one of the best made servers I've been on. I'm hoping that Amia will be a much more amiable place and I was very pleased to see new players out and about having fun. I honestly think we can do it. I think Amia has the potential to drop the toxic vitriol like environment and just relax a bit mroe and have genuine un with one another. I've been seeing folks behaving much kinder towards each other oc when logging in. Being more friendly ooc I thinks helps the server grow as a community. People being polite to each other and more considerate seems to help the community grow as that; a community. I see a lot of new dms up on the board and I'm petty excited to see what they can do. I've only caught a few glimpses of their work in my shot time back but they seem like they want to do things, they want to get some action going
The folks I'm bringing are between 3-12 players now... one by one I'm helping them get set up get in game and get their bearings[it's a lot of work ; u ; ] I really do hope that as an experienced group that's often played together on various flavors alignments that they can integrate well in to the server and get a great over all experience. I think now is the best time for this with the holidays around and the new year approaching.
May be it's just the holiday cheer or may be it's just my want to see things turn out well but I have a good hope towards this and a good feeling over all... My best advice to avoid getting a bad experience it to just stay ig and not play on the forums very much as the argumentative threads seem to pull the mood down. We shall see.
But here's to ty again with a fires, good out look and trying for a better future this year!
I hope the dm's stick to it and keep with the same spark that got them interested in dnd in the first place and nurture that spark in to a flame. It's tough I know! But it can be /quite/ a rewarding experience as well. Sorry if it seems like I'm rambling, and for give the play o words but I'm ver passionate about the server and I want to see her grow in to a healthy lovable community. Cheers!
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
_________________
❤ Amia is Fun Again! ❤ #GreenisNotACreativeColour "It's easy to feel like a hero. It's a little harder to be one."
[PaladinOfSune Wrote:] This is an OOC forum, for any and all subjects related to DnD, NwN or Amia.
Please be polite and courteous in your posts. If you have an issue with something, don't let it become a flame - be constructive and kind! Feel free to use specific incidents to explain your position but avoid specifically using these incidents to flame and degrade others; this is not helping the community.
If you have a problem with a single player (this includes the staff!), send them a PM yourself and try to get it worked out between yourselves, rather than make a topic on the forums - this is not the purpose of the forums. If this does not work, ask a DM to step in.
Reposted for peoples to check out. All the forum section have a basic rule at the top, or "About This Forum" area. By the way I enjoy the "@" symbol when directly responding to people in a large thread where there are multiple persons speaking; it makes it harder to confuse who you are talking to and about what. Sometimes miscommunication happens on the forums by people thinking certain words were being directed to them, when they weren't.
As for the topic at hand... and the giant monsters that certain other threads have become... TY Amarice for posting this. There are many players I know who have left, and a good portion of why was because Amia wasn't fun anymore because of the negative/toxic/vitriolic [what have you] atmosphere OOC and on the Forums. Many look in on the forums, see the monster threads and decide to stay clear of it all for a while longer. I myself left for a couple years due to bad feelings + miscommunications. Though in my case part of the time I couldn't get back on even if I wanted to because I had no internet. I took a break, but I am back because I love playing on Amia. As long as I keep foremost in mind that this is a game, and should be played for fun, then all is good.
Joined: 25 Oct 2008 Location: In my own little world.
Seems to me that a big part of Forum decorum is political. People wanting their voices heard on any given topic and willing to argue their point and defend their positions weather or not it can gain them any status or position. More often then not winning an argument in the forums simply adds a feather in the cap of the so called victor and a lot of other people having hurt feelings. In my opinion the problem is that people defending their standpoints get emotionally charged and begin to forget that emotions in politics just lead to fights whereas a forum like Amia uses needs more of a proper debate.
Many of us, including myself, read something posted that we disagree with so much we just can't help but speak up with our own rebuttal. But we get personal or goaded into insulting and mud-flinging. We all by and large need to exercise better netiquette.
Joined: 15 Dec 2009 Location: The Sky Above The Rain.
NinjaClarinet wrote:
Toe in the water, temperature still cold.
Brilliant.
OpenTheRift wrote:
I'm curious to hear these full stories of the disenfranchised vets.
Same here. Serb, Ninja, played with you both, miss both of you. The "keep the dirt behind curtains" rule is bullshit, I think others deserve to know these details. Others deserve to know who's in charge. So if you feel like it, post it - let others know.
That said, I'm a forum lurker nowdays myself, for fun and giggles, which the current community offers plenty. Why? Well... people who deserves to know why knows why (both of them ).
Been here since 2008 and morale and community level was never so low as it is now. It's not a complaint, it's a fact, caused by a small handful of people.
Again, not a complaint. I do not mind at all, cuz when morale is high, I play the game. When it's low, I'm having a good laugh on forum. So be that as it may:
_________________ Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem* Alex - Life is adventure or nothing! Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex. ========= Obsidian (inactive)
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum
FAQ
Search
Login
Well, I'm not getting a lot of optimism about civil discourse or compromise after those responses and...err...aggressive misinterpretations of my intent. I'll take the hint.
Brilliant. 
).