I understand where you're coming from Arkun, but this is a long standing issue, one that has been detrimental to much of conflict RP. I know we're all pretty drained from the hum-drum of upset over the past few weeks but issues don't get resolved when they need to, and this is just symptomatic of that reality.

Let's work this out, calmly and collectedly so we can shuffle it away and call it a day.

A few suggestions:

1. Have a go-to copy paste warning: "Hi, I just want to inform you that this RP is now reaching conflict, any casting, buffing, or perceived overt action will result in immediate pvp. This will be the only OOC communication I am making. If you have an issue please post-mortem bring it up with the DMs, but remain IC throughout so that regardless of the outcome we may have a consistent story"

Obviously you could do something simpler, that's just spitballing.

2. Screenshot EVERYTHING, especially your OOC/IC warning.

3. I think we could all learn to love our scars a little more. I know it's preachy at this point but you learn more from losing than winning, that's not a saying without foundation. Take it IC, build on it, for everyone.

4. Practice a level of suspension of disbelief, like Kamina said "Guards mighta been lookin' the other way" remember it's all a story, and getting mired on the minutiae doesn't benefit anyone, only breeds frustration.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

I don't feel like I should have to have permission to vent on the forums being that this clearly seems to be the ideal medium for such things to be done, with that said. I'm sorry if anyone feels targeted by this post. My intention here was to point out that I feel like the system clearly doesn't function as intended. It inhibits RP and creates a weird feeling of walking on eggshells in nearly every situation an Evil character is involved and that really takes away from the server in my opinion.

I understand that a lot of people play Amia because they enjoy the idle chit-chat, the picnics, hanging out in Bendir ect. And truth be told. I enjoy these things at times. But I also enjoy tension between characters. I enjoy a sense that actions HAVE consequences and to me this has be robbed because at the drop of a hat someone can insult, demean and belittle a character to the cusp of PVP then say something like "I don't want to pvp this in anyway" And just carry on leaving me with a feeling of diminished RP.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

Firstly! Im not annoyed that I got my arse handed to me. Don't get me wrong. I wouldn't be doing my job in trying to remove the grey of Good and Evil being far too kind to each other all the time if I weren't creating some much needed conflict!

There's four real issues here

1) NWN sucks at managing the disparity of power between different levels of characters. A lower level can never really stand up to a high level even with luck, blah blah blah topic for another time. TLDR make leveling easier so I don't have to grind for 999 hours to enjoy some more equal footing conflict

2) Overt evil is shunned on Amia. Its really weird and annoying. Evil people get pushed around on a serious OOC level here and are in dire need of some DM focused love to create an active faction designed to overtly do Evil things across the server, including attacking settlements that otherwise seem protected as "plot". The whole mainland is basically allied and the only issues they face are DM plots. Create a little chaos, Cordor is ripe for a little civil war followed by war with Kohl.

3) The PVP rules kinda suck. I mean, they always tend to favor someone so there gonna kinda suck, but at the least if it were like
- You dislike someone
- In both your combat logs it comes up with the basic servers PVP rules, saying you have ~10 seconds to ask for an out to PVP or prepare to get PVP'd. Buffing negates your 10 second period.
Done. That's your PVP rule. Forcing a generic timed "out" might hopefully clear up some of the grief over that issue. The only real issue is...

If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you. If you have not set them to Hostile before, you can't blame them for having to act without it. Both parties should strive to set eachother to Hostile after the immediate reaction, however.

4) PVP in a town. This ones... impossible really. Players aren't suppose to RP on behalf of NPCs so it makes PVP kinda impossible in a town without a DM present. On the flipside it also means that you can walk around with impunity insulting people without fear of PVP repercussion. Case in point our "Team Evil" in the originating conflict feeling they were on the receiving end of this. Now yes, there's other means you could go about that aren't technically PVP. But at the same time, if your deserving a smacking, you should get a smacking, provided the smacking party is willing to live with the consequences. A ruling like this is always gonna favor one party over another, but is there a viable alternative short of a heavily scripted automated guard response? DM's aren't always on. And when they are, they're not omnipresent or otherwise always free to deal with every conflict.

As an additional note to this, some towns like Wiltun have global no-pvp on, so you can litterally run your mouth insulting someone there all day without fear of "PVP" reprisal.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

When I said common sense I also applied on how you view PVP. When doing PVP always mind the environment and use common sense there.

In L'Obsul for example I never minded PVP at this point non of us do up to a certain limit, even gave out free drinks to the winner as the bartender. If you are blowing up the place with hellballs, earthquakes, meteor swarms then you will get a reaction even from the evil guards. Much the same applies to Zanshibon as well.

I know that the lack of AoE in this case would reduce the ability to pvp for certain classes. But if you are a wizard you are prolly smart enough to know your strength and weaknesses. As a cleric or druid, you are probably wise enough to measure the situation. Common sense...cannot emphasize it enough.

If you want further clarification on this then poke any of us.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

This needs to be changed and should have been changed a long time ago.

Why? The whole point is that it's a Jarldom, and the rule is "No weapons bared in the Keep. Lest your arms be removed." Removing the global no-pvp setting makes it so that there's NO way for that to be enforced. We're dipping back into the realm of "this upsets me so it should be changed."

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

i mean, let them try and take them then. make pc's enforce the laws. same as everywhere else.

plus you can fight in a ton of wiltun areas including basically all the interiors just not outside, so its not even consistent. it's just random that you can't fight outside.

There's no one person who's gonna stand around the entire time to ensure this stuff doesn't happen. Time zones are also an enemy here. I'm fairly sure most, if not all the Wiltun PC's are in the US time zones. How exactly will this stop people from doing it when they're not online?



If anything, consistency should be made to make all the interiors also no-pvp zones.

There is a reason why Wiltun was made a Non-pvp zone. Because back in the days when it got implemented the whole place got blown up literally by pvp outside the walls. First a script was implemented that autokilled the PC that made a PK in the area. Then the non-pvp flag was added. It is the result of the server culture, which ignored the setting (basically the fact that there is a settlement there) not because the area is plot protected.

There is a reason why Wiltun was made a Non-pvp zone. Because back in the days when it got implemented the whole place got blown up literally by pvp outside the walls. First a script was implemented that autokilled the PC that made a PK in the area. Then the non-pvp flag was added. It is the result of the server culture, which ignored the setting (basically the fact that there is a settlement there) not because the area is plot protected.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

Are people not allowed to fight outside settlements or something? Heck, our first presidents used to duel eachother in public.

THe issue was the 100000000 cast of earthquake, hellballs and AoE spells that just disregarded the environment completely. Want to go wild as a mage? Use the 10000000000000 int modifier to calculate the damage that your spell would cost. If you are an insane mage and want to destroy things? Speak with a DM.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

yeah but this kind of pvp doesn't happen anymore and certainly isn't allowed w/o dm oversight, so the ooc 'no pvp' restriction should be lifted.

I can shed some light on this, as I was the one who engaged in questionable pvp. I think the in character reaction was accurate. What's up for debate are the rules in place. Typically in such a setting you would need a dm to assume the role of guard, which none was available. The call was made on my behalf, that the two evil guys being nonstop insulted by two others would not just go on until the clearly stronger bad guys walk away with tails between they're legs, verbally defeated by a game mechanic. It's unrealistic and unsporting to abuse the rules as such. Too much of this goes on. If your character wants to just leave and go level..do that. If you want to RP. That's cool too. But when the RP is combative in nature...as it tends to be when you are arguing with a Banite, RDD Blackguard...at some point if you dont want pvp, you should probably leave. Right around the time he slowly puts his gear on, draws his sword and stares at you. I don't know what else to say. Sorry. I was playing my character the best I knew how, and getting punked by a "Gruff Dwarf" wasn't in his stars. I hope you can understand this is clearly an IC behavior. Again, sorry if feelings were hurt, but I assure you it could have been settled on the spot with a discussion.

You have to give someone an out, which can be "leave or die." You have to warn them ooc, which can be a simple "pvp warning." Using a potion, resting or anything of the sort after these are out and you're good to pvp. The need for a warning is also waived if they rest/buff in front of you; from the rules

My issue is more with the disparity between peoples interpretation of the rule that seems to cause a lot of constant grief in regards to starting PVP.

Person A: The rule is this!
Person B: No the rule is this!

Simple is king in this case. A clear concise timer that "PVPS ABOUT TO START!!" unless you ask for an RP'd way out within that ~10seconds would clear up any issues of giving warnings/outs.

Ditch the whole system and just roll with the punches would be my preferred system

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

Ditch the whole system and just roll with the punches would be my preferred system

Principles:

1. Amia is a role-playing server, not a PvP arena server.

2. All PvP must have a role-playing reason. PvP without a sensible reason is not allowed. Your character's alignment is not a valid reason for PvP. Summons, such as undead, are a valid reason but do not excuse you from the below protocol.

3. You must give the other party a reasonable chance to back down from the PvP In Character.

4. IC Actions lead to IC Consequences. If you initiate a conflict (by insults or thievery, for example), you can't expect to get away with it. You cannot ignore other players' RP or declare it null.


Technicalities:

5. You must give the other party clear IC indication of your intentions to attack, and make sure they have reasonable time to react and possibly back down IC.

6. You must set all members of the opposing party to Hostile before performing hostile actions. You can do this with the tool in your inventory or through the player list.

7. If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you. If you have not set them to Hostile before, you can't blame them for having to act without it. Both parties should strive to set eachother to Hostile after the immediate reaction, however.

8. The above goes for fleeing from hostile situations: If you turn tail and run without a word to avoid IC consequence, you can expect to be stopped by any means possible. Always give others reasonable time to react with RP!

9. Subdualing/killing: see http://www.amiaworld.net/about/pvp.html

10. Assassinations: Assassins must inform a DM that they are about to perform a hit. If a DM is unavailable, the assassin must inform the target instead.

11. If you clearly escape scene, you may not continue the ”same” PvP later, unless such behaviour is explicitly agreed by all involved parties. It is a new encounter with all the above rules. Parties may agree to a "mutual aggression" pact, where it is agreed that hostilities may commence whenever these parties interact. This must be supported by previous role-play, and is generally done when two factions (such as drow houses) have on going IC disputes that end in hostilities. It is the responsibility of the faction leaders to make sure everyone involved knows about the situation. Should this be the case, please inform the DMs about this in advance so that they know what is going on.

12. Traps are considered PvP. Do not set them down to damage random people: you are responsible for your traps and their victims.

13. Portalling to party leader into a PvP situation is forbidden.

14. Taunting someone with the Taunt-skill, using Turn Undead summons and casting spells such as Darkness is considered initiating PvP. You should set Hostile before doing that.

15. If robbed, you are not required to hand over items you do not wish to give away OOCly; emoting that they are transferred ICly is sufficient.

16. If your character is captured, and the character who caught him/her wishes to keep your character locked away, they can do so for a period of 24 RL hours, without your OOC consent. However, roleplay with the captive must be provided for those 24 hours. If it is not, then you cannot force the captive character to remain "locked away", unless you come to an OOC agreement on the matter. Keeping a character captive for longer than 24 RL hours requires the OOC consent of the player of the captive PC. In certain instances a DM can enforce captivity, but this is rarely done.

1. Amia is a role-playing server, not a PvP arena server.

2. All PvP must have a role-playing reason. PvP without a sensible reason is not allowed. Your character's alignment is not a valid reason for PvP. Summons, such as undead, are a valid reason but do not excuse you from the below protocol.

3. IC Actions lead to IC Consequences. If you initiate a conflict (by insults or thievery, for example), you can't expect to get away with it. You cannot ignore other players' RP or declare it null. If you don't allow people to walk away don't expect the gang that comes after you to do the same.

Technicalities:

4. You must give the other party clear IC indication of your intentions to attack.

5. You should try and set all members of the opposing party to Hostile before performing hostile actions. You can do this with the tool in your inventory or through the player list, but sometimes things move to fast for this to be enforceable, and pvp will not be undone on the technicality that 'not all party members were hostiled.'

6. If you do not give the other party time to observe the usual protocol, you can't expect them to stick to the protocol. This means that by resting, buffing or other such preperations to hostility, you forfeit your right to a warning: The other party may attack you immediately to stop you.

7. The above goes for fleeing from hostile situations: If you turn tail and run without a word to avoid IC consequence, you can expect to be stopped by any means possible. Always give others reasonable time to react with RP!

8. Subdualing/killing: see http://www.amiaworld.net/about/pvp.html

9. Assassinations: Assassins must inform a DM that they are about to perform a hit. If a DM is unavailable, the assassin must inform the target instead.

10. If you clearly escape scene, you may not continue the ”same” PvP later, unless such behavior is explicitly agreed by all involved parties; If you meet again it is a new encounter. Factions or gangs can work with a DM for a 'mutual aggression' exception for ongoing hostilities.

11. Traps are considered PvP.

12. If robbed, you are not required to hand over items you do not wish to give away OOCly; emoting that they are transferred ICly is sufficient.

13. If your character is captured, and the character who caught him/her wishes to keep your character locked away, they can do so for a period of 24 RL hours, without your OOC consent. However, roleplay with the captive must be provided for those 24 hours. If it is not, then you cannot force the captive character to remain "locked away", unless you come to an OOC agreement on the matter. Keeping a character captive for longer than 24 RL hours requires the OOC consent of the player of the captive PC. In certain instances a DM can enforce captivity, but this is rarely done.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

It's worth restating that if you are -killed- you are beholden to a five minute mind-wipe, so feel free to defend your name if you feel you got fucked.

Unless there was a new ruling this is not actually a rule or enforced sadly.

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.

:(

First of all, my brain is one of the best here.