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Broldi wrote:

Sorry bro, I'm intending to come on Maurice, but I'm also not sure about continuing the character due to todays OOC miss-hap. I do hope people do come for this, though. PvP tournaments are an amazing source of RP for the server as a whole to come together and RP with characters they wouldn't otherwise RP with. Makes for awesome RP.

Since I was part of this mis-hap. I say that you should go if you want. Do not let this change things in character. I am sorry this made you feel this way and I hope you go if you intended to go both as a player as as a character.

Looks like we're going with Feburary 24th at about 7 PM. I apologize to anyone this doesn't work for - I was looking at greatest possible overlap for the most time possible.

TormakSaber wrote:

Looks like we're going with Feburary 24th at about 7 PM. I apologize to anyone this doesn't work for - I was looking at greatest possible overlap for the most time possible.

How do a lvl 20 look for this?

You can show up with whoever you like. I currently have no plans to separate by level brackets as there's simply not enough entrants in my experience to make it worth doing so. Just be aware of that.

TormakSaber wrote:

You can show up with whoever you like. I currently have no plans to separate by level brackets as there's simply not enough entrants in my experience to make it worth doing so. Just be aware of that.

I am bad at builds, Jron happens to be a decent build from way back but he is also lvl 20 only. And the build, if it is good I do not really know. I might hop on the train just to try and RP some.

Oh also, 7 PM when?

7 PM CST.

Oh, was way to late for me then anyway

Beside the chaos created in character.

I do have some pointers.

There is to much healing, to much invisibility. But I think these two parts are impossible to arrange since HP heavy classes will get a silly gain on the others without healing.

Beside that, it is a powerbuild feast and since NWN is a stiff engine where personal skill in moment and where and when you attack is not really taken notice off in the gam engine, it is extremely hard to even dent some people. I still think lvl 1-10 is more balanced compared to the higher lvls where builds accumulate all their powers and start to be demi gods.

Budly wrote:

Beside the chaos created in character.

I do have some pointers.

There is to much healing, to much invisibility. But I think these two parts are impossible to arrange since HP heavy classes will get a silly gain on the others without healing.

Beside that, it is a powerbuild feast and since NWN is a stiff engine where personal skill in moment and where and when you attack is not really taken notice off in the gam engine, it is extremely hard to even dent some people. I still think lvl 1-10 is more balanced compared to the higher lvls where builds accumulate all their powers and start to be demi gods.

I fail to see any benefit in your words. The Tournament worked out fine. Fights didn't drag on and seemed fair to me. Sounds like needless nick picking in my eyes.

It's like asking a wizard to go melee against a full bab devcritter.

FYI a pure 30 Cleric won.

I do not see how there is not benefit from others opinions about things.

The engines limitations cannot be removed, like the combat that is based on build and mechanic knowledge over movements and awareness. If this is nit picking, so can anything then be. Was I particularly hostile somehow?

Invisibility save for conceal is rendered null by the standard buff true seeing available to everyone. Healing is also available to everyone. I would also like to point out that no match went over 4 minutes and most were resolved in under a minute.

Though compared to other games with combat systems built around action rather than rounds I can definitely see your point on a lack of a certain skill. Except for caster v caster. Those matches are awesome

OpenTheRift wrote:

Invisibility save for conceal is rendered null by the standard buff true seeing available to everyone. Healing is also available to everyone. I would also like to point out that no match went over 4 minutes and most were resolved in under a minute.

Though compared to other games with combat systems built around action rather than rounds I can definitely see your point on a lack of a certain skill. Except for caster v caster. Those matches are awesome

I honestly have no idea where to fetch these things. And in my opinion the server is bath in to much high magical items. But that is just a personal opinion. I although do not know where to get heal spells and invis revealing things anymore. Im old-new since of last summer/autumn.

I am horrible at PvP in NWN but I do play a lot of "PVP" based games like Dota 2, Hots or combat oriented games like Dark Souls. The caster matches are pure chaos but fun to watch. But this is something limited by the engine. I merely stated this as a "I wish it was more active combat like X" more than "FUcking Tormak you B-tard fix it". That is quite impossible! :mrgreen:

OpenTheRift wrote:

Invisibility save for conceal is rendered null by the standard buff true seeing available to everyone.

Is not true, besides, true seeing is "See invisibility" plus "Ultravision" and spot skill buff. So, technically there is no way to "render it null" as concealment will stay unless you dispel it (which is hardly possible against high level casters) or use "invisibility purge". And only way to reduce it somehow aside that, is to pick "blind fight", which is as much as "invisibility purge" spell not always available to everyone.

And even though it is fun to watch, NWN never been intended to be PvP balanced in any way, which was clearly stated by the Bioware themselves.

You're both wrong. Invisibility purge is available to everyone. Maiti Tatu has 0 UMD and he still has ways to cast it.

And how can he throw it then? A fringe item or something for your class?

Can buy them at a shop. Called Dust of Appearance, look like roots with a little gem on it.

Akhlys wrote:

Can buy them at a shop. Called Dust of Appearance, look like roots with a little gem on it.

I think I seen them either here or on other servers. Good to know.

There are also Lanterns of Revealing which are readily available as well.

Pretty happy a pure cleric won.

Commie wrote:

Pretty happy a pure cleric won.

Same. God(ess) bless.

I don't see invisibility as an issue for the reasons previously stated. True Sight and Invisibility Purge are freely available to all characters.

I don't see healing as an issue. It can prolong fights, sure. I think the biggest issue may be the potential of 2 epic dodge dex meleers fighting each other, or 2 undead or dragonshape shifters. Until that happens though I'm comfortable leaving healing as is.

I feel this tournament went much better than the previous one. I think the condensing of spectators to one side a big win for both the fighters and the spectators. It made betting much easier, as well as talking to the crowd much easier. I'm thinking about the possibility of getting a sponsored IC bookie to make bets easier to handle bets and payouts. We'll see where that goes. If people are interested IC I want to be there to support it.

I'm also considering making next month a 2v2 tournament. If enough people or teams don't enter for a proper double elim we may do it round robin style and do prizes based off of winning schedules. I am also considering adding a free for all brawl event at the end of next event just as a funsie thing with a side prize - not the grand prize, which will still be from the standard tournament. If you'd be more interested in 2v2 or would prefer the standard 1v1 for a 3rd time, please let me know either way in the topic in PM!

Congrats to the pure 30 cleric, I was definitely trying to figure out your build, and am surprised you're pure 30.

I am not really surprised. Pure Wizard/Sorc/Cleric are all extremely capable classes and just come down to skill. They have the capability, as shown, to dominate anyone.

TormakSaber wrote:

Congrats to the pure 30 cleric, I was definitely trying to figure out your build, and am surprised you're pure 30.

No surprise there either. Unless Tymora or Beshaba get involved, that tournament will get dominated by casters every single time it's held (especially if you give them three spells pre-fight).

So far what I see is:

1st tournament: Caster in first, dexer in second (mostly because the other caster got disqualified for killing the audience..)

2nd tournament: Caster in first, caster in second

it's almost like casters are overpowered and dont need continous spell buffs

Both casters nearly lost twice to melee characters and only survived through sheer luck or flukes fyi.

the point of the comment was that it was surprising to see a pure 30, and not 28/1/1 or 27/1/2 or etc.

we had <10 people enter.

it's hardly representative of server balance.

The fact that a character without discipline beat a melee build should be pretty telling in its strength. Not being knowledgeable with the class(es) does not mean they are not over powered. In the right hands, casters will be able to be beat anything else, considering this order: Sorcerer > Cleric/Druid > Wizard.
Toss in their very limited item requirements, that can negate almost any item requirements with proper buffs. The only things they need to build for are skill points and fortitude.
Every cleric on the server can get at the minimum, 54 AC without epic items.
Sorcerer and wizard can get over 60 AC without epic items.
Each of these four classes can do 200+ damage a round, some cases as AoE.
Cavern + Trickery empowered earthquakes. Woah, so difficult to play right?
But it's balanced cause they have to rest. ;^]

Akhlys wrote:

The fact that a character without discipline beat a melee build should be pretty telling in its strength. Not being knowledgeable with the class(es) does not mean they are not over powered. In the right hands, casters will be able to be beat anything else, considering this order: Sorcerer > Cleric/Druid > Wizard.
Toss in their very limited item requirements, that can negate almost any item requirements with proper buffs. The only things they need to build for are skill points and fortitude.
Every cleric on the server can get at the minimum, 54 AC without epic items.
Sorcerer and wizard can get over 60 AC without epic items.
Each of these four classes can do 200+ damage a round, some cases as AoE.
Cavern + Trickery empowered earthquakes. Woah, so difficult to play right?
But it's balanced cause they have to rest. ;^]

if you had entered on maiti you would have beat both the winner and second, and likely most of the rest of the bracket.

runner up has no CL so your SR would have rendered him really inefficient (if you're high monk which I think you are) and the cleric mostly relied on EQ spam which your dex-monk ness would have let you pretty much ignore, only taking 1/2 dmg on a 1.

frankly the people that would have beat these guys either cannibalized themselves in losers or just didn't enter. and losers bracket was full of people drinking true strike and their opponent not moving. like last time the winners just didn't have to fight through their hard hardmatchups, which is going to happen when you have <10 people entering.

I made Maiti Tatu to be as defensive as possible so I can play an openly evil character without getting gutter stomped every day. Earthquake wouldn't have beaten me, but horrid wilting and missile storm spam would. And without someone giving me flame weapon and other damage buffs, I don't have enough damage to get past heals. In groups I have enough saves and AC to eat up a lot of damage for my teammates while still being able to CC, but I rely on them for damage.

Akhlys wrote:

I made Maiti Tatu to be as defensive as possible so I can play an openly evil character without getting gutter stomped every day. Earthquake wouldn't have beaten me, but horrid wilting and missile storm spam would. And without someone giving me flame weapon and other damage buffs, I don't have enough damage to get past heals. In groups I have enough saves and AC to eat up a lot of damage for my teammates while still being able to CC, but I rely on them for damage.

na, you should be able to heal through igms and can hips so you take dmg on your schedule making it even worse to use vs you. horrid wilting is good but it's just a fort save vs half and is super delayed, you can walk out of it, which as a monk you should be dodging easily.

but this isn't the place for it. consider entering next time. I would if I could but im actually not allowed.

Maybe if they ever buff unarmed.

Akhlys wrote:

I made Maiti Tatu to be as defensive as possible so I can play an openly evil character without getting gutter stomped every day. Earthquake wouldn't have beaten me, but horrid wilting and missile storm spam would. And without someone giving me flame weapon and other damage buffs, I don't have enough damage to get past heals. In groups I have enough saves and AC to eat up a lot of damage for my teammates while still being able to CC, but I rely on them for damage.

Playing openly evil in a non evil enviroment is meant to make you very shunned or stoomped into the ground.

Budly wrote:

Akhlys wrote:

I made Maiti Tatu to be as defensive as possible so I can play an openly evil character without getting gutter stomped every day. Earthquake wouldn't have beaten me, but horrid wilting and missile storm spam would. And without someone giving me flame weapon and other damage buffs, I don't have enough damage to get past heals. In groups I have enough saves and AC to eat up a lot of damage for my teammates while still being able to CC, but I rely on them for damage.

Playing openly evil in a non evil enviroment is meant to make you very shunned or stoomped into the ground.

Nah. Amia just has a twisted concept of Forgotten Realms that attempts to deny an entire half of the human pantheon.

Akhlys wrote:

Budly wrote:

Akhlys wrote:

I made Maiti Tatu to be as defensive as possible so I can play an openly evil character without getting gutter stomped every day. Earthquake wouldn't have beaten me, but horrid wilting and missile storm spam would. And without someone giving me flame weapon and other damage buffs, I don't have enough damage to get past heals. In groups I have enough saves and AC to eat up a lot of damage for my teammates while still being able to CC, but I rely on them for damage.

Playing openly evil in a non evil enviroment is meant to make you very shunned or stoomped into the ground.

Nah. Amia just has a twisted concept of Forgotten Realms that attempts to deny an entire half of the human pantheon.

-Evil- is meant to be killed on sight.

Budly wrote:

-Evil- is meant to be killed on sight.

Na. If it was like that 'evil' places in FR wouldn't be able to get a foothold much less last as long as many have. The vast majority leave well enough alone and operate with extreme NIMBY.

Budly wrote:

-Evil- is meant to be killed on sight.

It isn't, but if I form an argument are you going to read it or just straw man me?

I mean the planes are equal in representation for all alignments for a reason, right?

It's supposed to even out.

Evil is meant to be killed outright from the standpoint of good and a typical player campaign. However if you immerse yourself in the world it's a lot different than that. There are actual gods and cosmic forces at work that helps evil to thrive and get the advantage. The FR universe really doesn't care about good or evil.

People confuse FR with our world a lot. But even in the RL world there are places where evil thrives. It's just on a wider (and far more dangerous) scale in FR. It's bad to have the player mindset that 'evil is meant to be destroyed', in my opinion.

We should make a new thread.

But cause evil has these holds and freedom, is why evil need to be kill on sight. Drows get killed on sight, Orcs too. There is reasons behind this and Amia, POTM and other servers break this pattern and pull out silly execuses like "neutral ground" to push out a reason for all alignment to drink coffee together cause the players are to few. Cause of the very reason that there is gods, evil is a true thing and not tied to insanity or being spoiled or whatever people blame evil for in real life, evil is real and must be fought at every corner by militant forces who aim to do good or is simply just a neutral power who wish to keep their land uncorrupted by forces of evil or good, cause evil do the same with good.

Had I been a faction leader or mayor or king on Amia, no evil should wander my land on a chaotic to lawful good character.

Budly wrote:

We should make a new thread.

But cause evil has these holds and freedom, is why evil need to be kill on sight. Drows get killed on sight, Orcs too. There is reasons behind this and Amia, POTM and other servers break this pattern and pull out silly execuses like "neutral ground" to push out a reason for all alignment to drink coffee together cause the players are to few. Cause of the very reason that there is gods, evil is a true thing and not tied to insanity or being spoiled or whatever people blame evil for in real life, evil is real and must be fought at every corner by militant forces who aim to do good or is simply just a neutral power who wish to keep their land uncorrupted by forces of evil or good, cause evil do the same with good.

Had I been a faction leader or mayor or king on Amia, no evil should wander my land on a chaotic to lawful good character.

Guess what? Evil PCs are shanked by a sudden wave of crusading good guy PCs the moment they cause any sort of trouble! Proof? I AM PROOF. I've seen it plenty of times and been a victim to it more then once. Your words only contributes to amias problem of the mediocre cesspit that it is!

Yeh but all I can say Budly is that the only way I've seen you combat evil is by going on an OOC tantrum at me.

As Naivatkal said. Good and evil isn't just black and white. You don't kill drow on sight, and you know you don't. Because there's freaking several that stand around the Dale all day. Most aren't even Eilistraeens. But this isn't even on topic of the tournament, so why the hell is good and evil being brought up here? Also, this is a game, with people playing these characters. So when you start cussing out evil, make sure you aim it at the characters. Next time you comment on how I feel about someone harrassing me OOC because of how I play my character, remember that it was you harassing me. Not even just on Budly now. You targeted me on another character too. That Maurice has never even interacted with. Then after getting beat in you proceeded to carry on.

I have been having so much fun on Amia since I got back for the most part. Most of who I've interacted with have enjoyed it too. It's just you that can't seperate this IC and OOC hate against evil characters. If you'd speak to me out of character like a person you might find I wouldn't hurt a fly, lad. Ease up on all this shit. Think about how you say things, and the effects they have on your fellow players. It was you and you alone that made me contemplate leaving Amia and you had the nerve to sit there and then tell me to leave.

Take into consideration that some characters are doing evil but in their mind it's a good thing because of the cause. For example, when two armies are at war. One country invades another. The soldiers invading, to the natives, would be considered evil. The invading armies soldiers would have been manipulated into believing that what they're doing is righteous. Now. Let's stop talking good and evil and use this thread for what it's intended for. PvP Tournament based things.

Alright, let's not turn this thread, which is about Tormak's monthly tournament, into an argument over something unrelated.

My bad, just woke up and didn't think before I posted.

Tournament related stuff, due to how much fun I had at the tournament, I will be helping Korthan with prizes and such for the winners, to try and get an even better turn out next time around.

An idea I did have for rewards would require a DM present, but it would've been something like a bottled companion or something of the like, in the same way the Djinn gives neat little things in his auctions. So the winner could get one of these one of a kind items. Maurice will be looking for Korthan IC to discuss things like this later if you're about Tormak!

Ps. Budly, I apologise, that was just rude, and not the time or place to lay out my ooc grievances. I'm sorry dude.

PuresoulX2 wrote:

Budly wrote:

We should make a new thread.

But cause evil has these holds and freedom, is why evil need to be kill on sight. Drows get killed on sight, Orcs too. There is reasons behind this and Amia, POTM and other servers break this pattern and pull out silly execuses like "neutral ground" to push out a reason for all alignment to drink coffee together cause the players are to few. Cause of the very reason that there is gods, evil is a true thing and not tied to insanity or being spoiled or whatever people blame evil for in real life, evil is real and must be fought at every corner by militant forces who aim to do good or is simply just a neutral power who wish to keep their land uncorrupted by forces of evil or good, cause evil do the same with good.

Had I been a faction leader or mayor or king on Amia, no evil should wander my land on a chaotic to lawful good character.

Guess what? Evil PCs are shanked by a sudden wave of crusading good guy PCs the moment they cause any sort of trouble! Proof? I AM PROOF. I've seen it plenty of times and been a victim to it more then once. Your words only contributes to amias problem of the mediocre cesspit that it is!

Evil should be punished and not be able to sit outdoors in Bendir Dale or Cordor, taking a coffee, known murderers who get a slap on their fingers and such is a bit weird. So should be good in evil occupied areas.

Mediocre cesspit is a bit crude way of puting it right?

And Broldi, do not try to turn this on me. You layed the first "OOC Stone" in that conflict.

Where did I tell you to leave? That is plain out a lie.

I said several posts ago we need a new t hread for this.

A bottle companion would be a good prize.

Would be hard to make it not 'evil' though. You can't give a 'person' away as a prize and some people might take offense to a literal 'bottle fairy' no matter the context.

Budly wrote:

PuresoulX2 wrote:

Budly wrote:

We should make a new thread.

But cause evil has these holds and freedom, is why evil need to be kill on sight. Drows get killed on sight, Orcs too. There is reasons behind this and Amia, POTM and other servers break this pattern and pull out silly execuses like "neutral ground" to push out a reason for all alignment to drink coffee together cause the players are to few. Cause of the very reason that there is gods, evil is a true thing and not tied to insanity or being spoiled or whatever people blame evil for in real life, evil is real and must be fought at every corner by militant forces who aim to do good or is simply just a neutral power who wish to keep their land uncorrupted by forces of evil or good, cause evil do the same with good.

Had I been a faction leader or mayor or king on Amia, no evil should wander my land on a chaotic to lawful good character.

Guess what? Evil PCs are shanked by a sudden wave of crusading good guy PCs the moment they cause any sort of trouble! Proof? I AM PROOF. I've seen it plenty of times and been a victim to it more then once. Your words only contributes to amias problem of the mediocre cesspit that it is!

Evil should be punished and not be able to sit outdoors in Bendir Dale or Cordor, taking a coffee, known murderers who get a slap on their fingers and such is a bit weird. So should be good in evil occupied areas.

Mediocre cesspit is a bit crude way of puting it right?

And Broldi, do not try to turn this on me. You layed the first "OOC Stone" in that conflict.

Where did I tell you to leave? That is plain out a lie.

I said several posts ago we need a new t hread for this.

Calm down. Go make a new thread about evil if that's what you want to do. Stop debating it here.

People keep answering here so I have no time to make a thread.

Budly wrote:

People keep answering here so I have no time to make a thread.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88571

I have time. Consider it done.

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