One of the cool features of the game is the actual sometimes I win, sometime I lose based on the luck/disaster of any actions of the roll 1 or 20 system. The giggles or the cries of a badly placed 1 roll versus the godly 20 roll of a desperate lowbie character.

Where I am going: I would use my bag of dice more often and put points into bluff and other roleplay skills if I wasn't an aberration by doing so. My example. X character is angry and roll a strong dice on a bump shove shoulder hit on unexpecting someone Y.
I roll a 16 + 8 bonus. The other guy chose to say, nothing happens I can decide if my character wins the encounter without even rolling stipulating rp wins over dice. So this just means everything will always go the way I feel like it goes for my character? No you did not convince me or bluff me or beat me or whatever else.

I know some skills to be overused like listen in powerbuilds and sadly listen counter bluff in special dice. So should the dice and skills definitions be revamped to make them usefull and fun again and maybe even a bit enforced into rp so not everyone is godly at all times. Bad happens to the best of us and the system really works well making this seemingly integrated in the game.

Thanks for reading.

The Dicebag is only there to enhance RP if you want to. Imo the best way to bluff is to just simply lie and give no reason to be distrusted. "Why would I invest in Bluff then?" Is your new question, which I would say DM events or requests will heavily rely on the skill if/when you use it.

Of course, this is what I assume your question is, found your post confusing to be honest!

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I think one of the reasons that ruling is in place is because it would just be weird otherwise. A DM sets the DCs. It's not likely that you really would trust a Pale Master who insists that he is a Kohlingen guard and is wearing a Tarkuul uniform. No matter how high his Bluff is, you know he is lying. And that is just one of the problems. Then, it's also a matter of policing RP. If you met someone for the very first time, don't know the character, and he doesn't believe you even if you are a normal character, wearing a Kohl uniform. That's metagaming, right? Maybe, but maybe he is a Kohl person too, and knows that you are not one. The old Cordor guard was better for this example, because they had their own uniforms, are were a small, actually overseeable group. But in general, there are certain things you just know, even though your opponent is the best liar. And how would I tell that to a player that tries that on me, without spoiling all my IC secrets over OOC chat?

On the other hand, it reminds me of PnP spells. My personal opinion is that in most cases, it is kind of good sportsmanship if there is a reason to believe him. That is why I don't respond to rolls like that in a way people like. I usually just metagame your bluff modifier to tell whether you invested heavily in it, if yes, I usually would believe you, if no, I check the roll. General guideline I use is the ten mark, unless it is something pretty unlikely. So, I'd say, putting some ranks into it is not completely pointless, but usually people just want to put points in mechanical skills.
Then, DM events, "fluff skills" will actually come in handy usually. I remember one event thing where the DM asked for triple digit lore. I'm willing to bet that not many people responded to that question, simply because it doesn't really have a use, apart from saving 100 gold every once in a while, or as a PrC restriction.

Basically, my tl; dr is exactly what Kamina said. Damn you!

The dice bag is one of the best RP supports we have and I rarely see it used. The actual people on the other side of the player characters you're trying to persuade aren't buggy AIs, they're real people with reasonable judgement and common sense, as are the DMs. If you try and bluff your way into Kohlingen while wearing a Tarkuul uniform, then you're not using either the dice or common sense properly, and should probably quit your job as a professional infiltrator.

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Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand

Discord: Bhaalorian#5715

The biggest issue is that social skills were designed, at their core, to be support for PCs to essentially use as a "social battle minigame" complete with mofidiers, against NPCs. It was never designed to arbitrate arguments or things between PCs (save for like, disguise strength, or the ability to make counterfeit things) - that was always meant to come down to roleplay between the characters. Since checks were generally presented against a set DC in an environment that precluded being level 30 within 2 days or stacking +50 to social gear before you roll your dice bag, checks could be made at reasonable levels at reasonable DC swhich the DMs et based on the circumstances of the time giving modifiers to an argument.

In a NWN setting and especially in a high magic setting like ours, this becomes essentially impossible. As the player who knows how my character believes or otherwise, how can I apply a basic "Believeability number" to my character's beliefs when he hasn't heard the argument, or doesn't know who the argument is coming from? A level 3 character's lie could be, within context, much more compelling than the level 30's, even though it's backed up by a much larger number on the die roll. Your roll could be a bluff of 97, but maybe I know some pertinent fact or information that your character isn't aware that I know - essentially making any attempt to bluff me on that argument pointless. These same arguments go for Intimidate and Persuade. The social contracts of the game become inherently more compelling when we're force to do everything in RP rather than fall back on a die roll. Ultimately, it's the setting we find ourselves in. I would be pretty upset if I was informed as a player that my character was forced to agree or acquiesce or believe a certain thing simply because of a die roll. Even if PvP happens and conflict breaks out, generally speaking your character's core values are not forcibly modified against their will. They may "come around" as the result of getting a beating, but I find that pretty different to "I rolled 62 on Persuade, so you believe me."

You're right them, if your followup argument is "why invest in social skills?" The answer would be DM events, and that was the answer I used to give people as well, but the sobering truth of the matter is that even as DMs, we rarely fell back on these things either, preferring to do things fully in the environment of RP. I can count the number of times I was asked to roll social checks probably on one hand - and they were all from one DM.

I don't really have a good solution for this - but I'm also not of the mind that it's a problem dire enough to really need a solution, or that at the end, that it's really even a problem at all.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham