CRITICISM is something people don't ask for. Therefore it must be FRIENDLY. FEEDBACK is something one asks for from others and, therefore, it must be CONSTRUCTIVE, because then the task is to improve the questioner's understanding of the topic. This thread is not for grievances, but for feedback and criticism. Read the OP carefully to get the gist of how this works!

This topic is meant to foster good relations among all Amians without recognising positions between players, DMs, and others (one love, one people!). People with the rights to moderation as per the rules of the forum are naturally free to moderate forum behaviour as they see fit, but the point of this thread is for things not to come to that. Because there's a risk of things heating up, here are some guidelines for you to consider in your posting, which I hope you will respect:

1. Do not post here if you feel angry. People feel angry in different degrees owing to biological factors and social learning. Anger is a feeling one is always allowed to feel. However, anger fosters anger and we are quick to mimic hostility as an accepted means of conflict resolution. DON'T SHOW ANGER HERE, even though it is not wrong to feel so per se.
2. Don't swear: this may be interpreted as anger.
3. Don't blame: always think the person you are talking to has no hidden agenda and is a rational and well-meaning fellow player.
4. Don't use curt sentences: "This is it." "You are wrong." Use gentle communication: "Have you considered..." "You would think so, but actually..."
5. If somebody breaks this etiquette, do not point it out. Ignore it and resume communication without aggravation.
6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: Ask for permission from the person you are going to hold as an example. This is easy, just send a PM! "May I use what you did as an example for..." To give praise is always benign.
7. Respect others' opinions and thoughts: not everyone is a master of argumentation and we cannot expect such. You level the field by trying to see things from other people's perspective and by not automatically putting someone down for giving a faulty argument.
EDIT: Two new guidelines for your consideration!
8. Don't be devastating and don't try to humble others.
9. Don't make it about your personality per se: asking about yourself in a way "be honest about me, talk trash" does not fulfill the purpose of the thread, but forebodes a tendency of hurt feelings. If you want to have some dangerous deep analysis of yourself, don't do it in public. We're (probably) not psychologists.

How to use this thread?
1. Do you want feedback for your event, faction, roleplay, some concept or other? JUST ASK. Be concise and think of the following questions: What do you want feedback on? Whom do you address with it? Can you give some questions that would help you obtain the kind of information you need?
2. CRITICISM IS NOT DISSATISFACTION. Criticism is a SUGGESTION that you think would improve conditions in the server in general. Criticism DOES NOT target an individual, but always pertains to something general by way of an example. If your criticism is something that clearly would address individuals in a negative fashion, send a PM to whom it may concern instead.

LASTLY: Breed love, not hate! I understand that this may go horribly wrong, but do your best. I believe in you <3

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Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

Friendly criticism: Hey Opustus, I think you could use an example of friendly criticism in your OP. Could you add it there?

My response: Dear myself, duly noted!

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Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

In my last month and a half of being here I've engaged in may conflicts across the server, I am curious of the directly involved (those there for the fights and leadups) what you thought could've been done better.

I ultimately never aim to cause grievances with players in playing my chars, and instead act with the intent to build and foster confrontations, if you have insights onto how that could be done better, I am all ears.

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bad man

OpenTheRift: My piece of advice may strike you as obvious. I haven't been involved in any IG confrontations recently, but based on my earlier experience, I've found it useful to establish some form of OOC rapport with the "opposing" side, especially if the conflict is prolonged. While this may decrease immersion for some, it's efficient and at least can be kept to a minimum. One or two explanatory PMs as a token of goodwill to a "faction boss" (or whatever) ensures that the information spreads.

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Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

As a general plea to the DMs: Could you try to answer PMs a bit more please? Even if things are being worked on, I find it nice to just get a response, if only a short 'working on it' or something along those lines. I find it nice to know that the PM was received.

Hit me bois. I'm a big boy. I can take it. General feedback on anything you people think I need to work on.

Be more active

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Melsa

There are horrors beyond life's edge that we do not suspect,
and once in a while, man's evil prying calls them just within our range.

Hey Robbi,

If this is ingame then it is due to sometimes party chat or even local chat flooding them out.

If this is forum PMs, I'll move it on to the DM team to see how we can improve.

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You have no drive to play your character and it plainly shows. Back when I first started playing you were always doing something. It may have been goofy or bizarre, or you may just be standing around bragging about all the crazy shit you did, that no one else cared about, but it was fun to watch. Give him a purpose again.

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As someone who's mostly played a single character, I've began managing a set of three. Hows that working out for you guys?

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You will likely not see me as:

Fymor Trueshot

You show up to cause a disturbance and generally be an annoyance to everyone around you, IC and OOC, and I think if your actions came from anyone that didn't have your server history and pedigree, you would have been tossed out on your ass and the door let hit you on the way out. You are the epitome of what destructive CN can look like to a server. You have self admitted to showing up only to troll and entertain yourself, and you have become disruptive and destructive to the community through your actions, both IC and OOC ones. You've come to a point where your presence is actively harming the immersion and suspension of disbelief.

You are such a far cry from Krin Shadowflame that I knew before I left that when I came back and heard stories, I had to very seriously ask if it was the same characters we were talking about and not someone with a similar name. And that's a real disappointment to me, both as a DM who got to see what Krin used to be, and as Torin, who was very closely intertwined with Krin at times on both a friendly and a not so friendly level. It's frustrating and disappointing.

----

ps: say whatever you like about me too, in general

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

I would love some too, I think personally I been a bit distant and to much away from keyboard of late. But I always want to improve my RP!

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.

Lets see what people have to say about SKELETOR!

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

7.8/10 - Too many bones

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I'm done. Goodbye.

I'm putting you two together because I think the latter is a symptom of the former.

I do try to avoid getting my character involved in a lot of big server plots or storylines. It's not because I'm not interested though. I just worry that I'll get involved in something, have people depending on me showing up, and not be able to put aside the time to come around. I'm pretty busy with IRL stuff a lot of the time and it makes it tough to commit to things on Amia. I'll do my best to be better about this. Thanks for the input




Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll take the rest of the things you said into consideration, but this is the second time someone has said that I said I only come around to troll and entertain myself. I sincerely can't remember ever saying that. Where did you get that from?

Okay so I'm curious, these things can be useful. I'm game.

_________________
When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

Anyone can feel free to leave me constructive feedback or friendly criticism. Always down to let things be aired out. I may pop back through at some point at leave some for the rest of you. Haven't really been forum active lately though. That's usually where I earn my enemies.. >.> So I may not, too?

@ Tormak / Everyone

I don't interact with you enough IC to comment on how you conduct yourself in game. I think the most useful feedback I can give you is…. I think you should put some effort toward learning how to communicate disagreements with other players without being insulting or coming across as a jerk.

I'm pretty sure you've heard this before, but you seem to have fallen back into your old habits and I don't think it's healthy for you, the community as a whole, or the people you're interacting with in that way.

The disrespect with which you and other DMs treated players way back when was a large part of why I left the server for a couple years. As you mentioned in your post, we used to interacted a lot more IC and OOC. Our characters were in the same circle of friends, which led to us communicating OOC pretty often and, on my end at least, we were always on good terms.

But, from my perspective, after you became a DM you slowly but surely went from 'okay guy' to 'unnecessarily disrespectful, rude, borderline bully who talks down to people from his position of authority as a DM.'

When you were forum lurking and people started begging you to come back full time again, I was genuinely pissed off because the memories I had of you that burned brightest were the ones surrounding how you mistreated and talked down to a friend of mine while DMside to the point she was in tears, insecure about her RP, feeling like she wasn't wanted on the server(because you basically told her that), and afraid to go to Nekh or Disco about how you treated her because she was worried you'd find out and ban her.

You went from someone I had general fond feelings toward to a complete, utter asshole. And I think you're heading back down that road again.

It's okay to disagree with people. You probably disagree wholeheartedly with everything I've typed out so far. But I really think you should be more mindful of how the things you say or how you say them can affect other people.

IE,

The 'constructive criticism' you left for me. Is there any part of you that thought metaphorically taking a dump on me would get me to change the behavior you think I need to change? I don't offend easily, so I don't care about harsh language aimed at me, but I know that we have a lot of players on this server who would see something like that aimed at them and feel like a total pariah, be insecure about logging on, and slowly fade away from the community.

There was nothing constructive there. No suggestions. No advice. Just, and I'm paraphrasing here, "You're shit IC and OOC, you're hurting the server, and you should probably be banned."

The normal human reaction to that is something like: Bah fuck this guy!

None of that is helpful to anyone. I've noticed that a lot of players communicate with each other in this way. I mean... I get called an anti-semite, racist, nazi, sexist,whateverthefuckelse for having views on politics some people disagree with. I mostly ignore it because, like I said, I don't offend easily..but…

How is that a healthy level of discourse for a community of people that are supposed to log in, have fun, and write the Great Amian Story together?

I don't remember people speaking to each other that way back in the 'old days'. But maybe I just didn't notice. Or maybe we're all just too comfortable with each other now.

I've been communicating with a lot of you people for.. What? 10 years? That's crazy. At some point I guess we had to become ornery assholes. It's easy to forget that communication takes two people. If we're just tossing venom at each other without giving thought to how what we say is taken by the people we're communicating with, nobody is listening or trying to understand the perspective of the person on the other side of the forum name. People get defensive and start tossing venom of their own. It's possible for honest, well-meaning people to fundamentally disagree on things without one of them being an idiot, cartoonish monster, liar, or some other kind of bad actor.

Tormak, I really think you would find it helpful if you read through these two articles and tried to take some of the suggestions there to heart.

http://lifehacker.com/5915687/how-to-gi ... ike-a-jerk

https://zenhabits.net/how-to-give-kind- ... -critical/

Honestly, I think we can all use some help on this front. I can certainly use some.

Here, I found a useful video on the topic from a guy with an epic porn mustache to keep you mesmerized while you listen.

How to Give Effective Criticism

+1, my man.

While Krin has been the center of mostly jokes and ridicule for as long as I can remember, I actually have enjoyed the past few times I've RPd with him. Despite him being a general troll, I felt like - especially the last time, when Miakoda helped heal his hand back - I actually saw a semblance of depth leak through the 'mask' that is Krin's usual behavior. I don't really know if this is OOC or IC, I don't know you well and haven't had the pleasure of playing with you for significant periods. But I think what you should take away from what most people said is that if you have the time and will to get invested in the server again, I would recommend you do and try to dish out some more of those little insights into something more ... deep? Genuine? Something other than the usual antics. It keeps people interested and not exhausted by the games, I think.

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Thats the way it crumbles ... cookie-wise!

Thanks for the input. Honestly, i think a lot of it is just me not having much time to commit right now. Krin is actually a pretty deep character(or I try to make him that way), but it's hard to take him beyond the 'mask' he wears when I'm not around often enough for most of his interactions to get through surface level. I'll work on it! And really, if Krin's antics are ever making any of you feel uncomfortable OOC, just let me know and I'll rein him in. It's no biggie. I come here to have fun and help other people have fun. So don't be shy about sending me a tell.

Thanks again.

This topic is doing nothing but inviting toxicity, and dredging up old ass arguments.

I think you all should sit back, think about what you just typed, and stop posting in the topic.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

I used my discretion to fix the guidelines when I noticed this trend. I think that most posts have been civil and well-meaning. My worry is not that old arguments are dredged up, it's that these old arguments may domineer the course of the thread. It's a good idea not to be "egoistical" (in lack of a better word; no offence!) but to discuss things that go past your own personhood. I would like to give this thread a chance yet!

_________________
Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

I'm not throwing fuel on this fire. We arn't even halfway down page one and we already have walls of text laden with insults and attacks.



This is not what you want, I hope, in a forum thread.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

I have yet to look at one of your requests without getting a distinct sense of power creep through seniority; you've consistently asked for resistance to everything under the sun and all of your items start at a level beyond what I'd consider reasonable or acceptable by any stretch term and when reasonable limits of power are defined you seem to take a troublesomely uncompromising stance.

Also roast me if you want; I'm already cancer.

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

If I needed to offer some critical analysis, more bluetext may add some extra contextual expression.


I feel Cory could use a Quest to help reinforce his importance to the server as the defacto Caraigh man.


Status quo is the most I can think of (in due part to me not seeing your character enough outside a lawful social setting!)

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You will likely not see me as:

Fymor Trueshot

I'll open myself up for a roasting. Pretty sure I could improve plenty about the way I play.

I'll start with one I'm well aware of:-

- Lack of focus upon an singular character for any considerable time since I played my dwarf has, I believe, lead to the impression I'm a drifter and my involvement in faction/group RP is not entirely welcomed as there is a held opinion I'll just get bored and play an alt.

My answer: Yeah, I know. I'm trying to fix it.

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Because there's no advice to give to someone who thinks its OK to be killed and tell people they regenerate from the ashes, or thinks its OK to show up to a 40 person event and cast Hellball and f_hostile a moment before it hits. All you can do there is tell people how destructive their actions are to the immersion of the server. That is the suggestion. Stop doing it. You're better than this, and are capable of a lot more than you show up to do now, which is be insulting stereotypical CN.



Hm? Really?

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Yeah I can how would look that way, the major problem is as a shifter I cant really request what the rest of you guys do on items as stats..ect don't stack from items its a all or nothing. Its why item wise all I can request more or less is Immunity and regen as they are the only two effects that will stack with each other .
Not being able to use items in form that are not a potion it makes me unable to request toys like magical rod with say hammer of the gods three times a day ((in fact I have a item like that and I cant use it)) its why when they removed magic resistance on the epic armor and replaced it with a spell use/day that effect was useless as a shifter could not make use of it.

Amarice seemed willing to talk about suggestions and stuff hence why I am, most of the time when all I'm met with is "No" then yeah I tend to dig my heels in((That's a personality flaw of mine sadly)), its why I loved dealing with Tormak DM side with research...ect because even if it was a "No" you learned something and it pointed you into a direction for something new so you always kept moving so to speak. You might not end up where you wanted to go but you will end up somewhere, and not just stuck staring at a wall.



I'm not even sure how that would work, maybe I go search for the stick of truth?

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================-<Cory ShadowFlame>-================
Risenlord-Shifter(OMG a Non-Dragon Shifter that can hold his own in PvE)

I can see how that would be an issue; honestly one of my main concerns over it is the fact that we currently play in a setting without individual custom scripting while extra concessions are being made toward custom shifter stuff. I understand that the concept is unique and the character is old but I see no reason why that should mean being treated differently on requests like some tend to advocate with regards to "rp builds" and "power builds"- not to accuse you of being one of "those people".

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Gerald Edmund
Discord: Metal Viking Guy #5433

DC taxation is theft!

Hm.. I think I've found a couple areas of confusion that we can clear up. I know it's faux pas to get into specific situations in public, but this seems like a 'thing' so it's probably best to fix it now.

1. The ashes thing.... I think I know what you're talking about but it didn't happen like that. The last time poor(?) Krin was burned to ashes was his run-in with a draconic character. He laid there, dead as can be, until someone came by and revived him. But because the attack and subsequent ash-making happened directly in front of a Bendir guard, I was convinced at the time that guard metagaming rules were broken. It later turned out that they weren't, but no DMs were on for the question to be asked.

I also didn't see a reasonable way for the character, who was supposedly ashes on a hill in front of an NPC guard, to be revived(who goes around trying to revive ash piles?) in the state I was told he was in.

I was also sent a tell by the other party that gave me the impression this was an OOC-anger thing.

So, from my perspective, I was dealing with someone who got angry OOC, broke NPC guard metagaming rules, and attempted to force a 24-hour death on me without any input on my end. My character was wearing regenerative gear when he died, so I had him regen to a recognizable corpse so that the next person who came by had a reason to revive him(or at least stash the body).

That was my line of thinking. I think most people know that I'm a very 'Roll with the punches' kind of person in game.

A couple months before the ashes thing, my character was killed, had his corpse set on fire, covered with acid, imploded, greater ruined, and finally buried in a shallow grave behind a rock. It all seemed to be in the rules to me, so I rolled with it. My character was effectively permakilled and I would've left him that way, despite my slight irritation(that I kept to myself) that nobody had bothered to ask me if I was okay with a permakill. Unfortunately for Amia, a wizard had been spying on the situation and took the mound of gore to Tarkuul to get it revived. Krin came back bald and angry because I didn't think it would make sense for him to come back with hair after the fire, acid, imploding, etc.

The ashes-to-corpse thing was more me finding a way to make sense of a crappy situation that I perceived to be the result of OOC anger and rule breaking. I promise that I don't have my character come back to life on his own after he's killed.

2. Are you talking about the tourney thing? Because only Krin's dueling opponent was set to hostile on my end. I don't even use the f_hostile command because I'm an old codger who still uses the 'dislike' button on the Player List. If you're not talking about the tourney, I can't think of anything that comes close to what you're talking about. Can you clarify?

Whats bluetext? I played back in the days, I barely know anything about these new thinga Also my English vocabulary is kinda bad.

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.

A petite lithe figured fey being settle down by the fire side gazing in to the heated embers. They curled up close to the warm brick work of the fire place feeling the chill of winter melt away from them. Their nose wriggled as slowly the icey numbness started to fade. Flushed cheeks painted on delicate features showed brightly against other wise creamy skin. They shifted in their leathers trying to get in to just the right comfortable position to soak up all the nice heat offered by the inn's fire place. They stretch slowly arching their back like a cat and sigh contently. " Now this is heaven... " The smaller chirped looking to their raven haired friend across the way. A wry smirk graced plush lips and the crooked a finger. " Why don't you come and join me by the fire side James~? We can snuggle up and get cozy listening to the bards sweet winter celebration carols." The lavender haired little imp coaxed in a heated, soothing tone, nearly purring in delight thanks to the warmth of the fire place chasing off the harsh winter cold.

OOC: Blue text is emoting / writing or telling what the character is doing- It is descriptive text.

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I think your right, more so lately with uncertain online times I tend to play it safe for the most part and so take the middle ground on many things. This is my OOC failing as I dislike disrupting the fun of others knowing I likely can't follow it up. Hey we had some good times be it the masked ball or sat on a bench talkng about faith... few times for sure but I found them very enjoyable ones.

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When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.

Ohh it is not cool with * * for emotes anymore? Joking! I presume people mean more emotes with the blue text in game?

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.

Please behave guys. Criticism doesn't need to be nasty or hostile.

Also the DM team welcomes constructive feedback as long as it stays civil.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

Constructive Criticism to the DM team - Thank your developers for their time, and explain that they are going to be demoted for going idle. Don't just demote them with no explanation when they go inactive.

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a.k.a. Audrey Zinata

Hey Raven thanks for your time!

The thing is when DMs and Devs disappear for long periods of time we don't know what is up and it eventually reaches the point where confusion starts to occur. This is mostly regarding DMs but we still have had issues with Devs. So we have now started removing people if you disappear on us for really long periods of time. It isn't anything personal but simply addressing past complaints about people sitting on titles and jobs.

With that said, all you gotta do is ask to be added back and as long as you are with us again to work we can add you back. It isn't a demotion but simply a reflection of you being active or not.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

I think you guys should try communicating with people you disagree with rather than a near wordless ban! Because that's what I got. Other than passing mention of old crimes I did my time for. And in all my time here, I never got a talking to or warning. Communication behind closed doors and a ban. Wasn't just me either!

Countless PMs ignored too. Partly why I'm posting. So pardon the "dirty laundry".

And can I come back now? =]

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Success is a stale finale.

Ok are we dredging this hill shit up again? This is exactly the reason I don't like dealing with you.

So you're a Bernie Sanders supporter who went scorched earth and is now supporting Trump. Ok. Sure. We get into an argument about politics. Ok. Sure. At some point, I try and ignore you, I tell you I installed a blocker and just don't want to deal with you anymore. Normally, 9/10, people take the hint and stop talking about or to me when they get told "don't talk to me." You don't. You also keep blatantly misrepresenting my position, my opinion, or the facts of the event, and repeatedly put me in a position where I have to actually repsond to you to correct what you say and actually get forced to engage you again.

Look above;



You get corpse-burned with fire storm's holy fire and told you're turned to ash. What's your response? Lie there and emote about how you're already regenerating into human form and somehow manage to be more beautiful then you were before. Then because you're sitting in the dale emoting constantly someone comes up and raises you and the OOC barrage begins and is STILL being brought up by you 11 months later even though you've been told every single time you bring it up that killing someone for casting Disjunction on you is legitimate, guards or no guards, AND that the guards outside don't give a shit about that sort of thing anyway. AND we had this whole thing where I told you repeatedly to stop fucking dispelling me but you refused.

How many times have I had to show you the screenshots now, like five? Come on dude.

Why is this relevant? Because you constantly bring up shit involved with me and misrepresent it so I have to engage you. I'm utterly convinced that's your thing now; Make Commie have to talk to you.

You got forum banned for insulting me; I didn't complain to the DM's, that was done w/o any of my comment or input or a complaint. But you got banned. What did you do? Hop on an alt and PM me shit. Ok. So that's suddenly banned too. So what do you do then? Hop IN GAME and send me greentext about forum shit. This is after I spent a long time trying to ignore you. But you make it actually impossible, and continue to just say the same shit incorrectly over and over and over again and I have to address it or just deal with the fact that you said I metagamed (I didn't) or whatever it is you're currently saying about me/my position and that call just went unanswered so hey I guess it must be true, right?

That day 11 months ago I burned your corpse and told you that you were dead for 24 hours. You decided to just lie there emoting about how you were healing constantly until someone not-involved in our conflict raised you. And god knows what you said to them because man did they come after me OOC on your behalf, and their greentexts as well as their proximity to you is why I won't post the whole screens publicly (though I did DM-PM them all the same day), just the one of the fight with combat logs on full display; because I don't want to drag someone else into your river of shit dreadging.

When we had our recent pvp tourny, you were told not to hellball. You were told not to cast AoE spells that hit non-hostiles. Your actions were, haste, hellball and kill like five people, then chain like SEVEN time-stops so we all just had to sit there and wait for you to run out of timestops so you could be killed. When I actually tracked you down, you abused the areas free-respawn to raise yourself multiple times instantly and get killed again instantly until I had to OOC tell you to "stay dead," and I'm of the firm belief that if there wasn't a DM right there at that exact moment you'd have just kept respawning because nobody could 'make' you stop.

I don't like you, you play a different game then I do. I play a game where death matters. Where when someone does something to you after you die you play along (jail, destruction, etc). I'd bring up examples of this but I don't want to bring up old shit for no reason.

You do the opposite. Seriously, you got banned for insulting me, got on an alt and PM'd me, got that alt banned, then hopped IG and kept talking. I can't ignore you on the forums because you just keep bringing shit up that I didn't even do specifically, and make me have to dredge this shit up again and again and again. And the worst part is, if I didn't screen everything, you muck-raking and lying about 11 month old pvp shit might actually make people think I metagame.

I don't like you because of this, it's been 11 months now and you're still doing the same thing. I don't like the way you conduct yourself on the forum. Getting banned just meant you used alternate avenues to communicate with me. Me ignoring you just led to you misrepresenting shit I said so I'd look like an asshole unless I responded to you. And you're still doing it. I can't be rid of you without ending up looking like a jackass because you just lie or deliberately misinterpret things I said or did.

I don't even want to be posting here but you make me by posting shit like this;



You had input! I have screens of us talking IC and OOC to prove it!!! You've seen them multiple times now!!! It was 11 months ago!!!

Holy shit dude, just STOP.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

The post above is full of so many deliberate falsehoods, lies by omission, and outright lies that I almost wouldn't know where to start if I responded to it. I don't think I can respond to it here without completely derailing the thread. So, out of respect for Opustus and what he's trying to accomplish here, which I do think is important, I won't get into it.

Yeah, uh... I'm not a DM or anything, but we could really do a better job to keep this thread civil and without posts like that. Have some respect for what this thread is trying to do, after all. That said, I'm not actually sure I have any sort of criticisms or feedback at this time. Sorry!

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Rein it in. Be respectful or there will be consequences. This thread is a good idea, if people who ask for criticism also do not use it as a vehicle to attack someone, and if that person can also take the criticism in the first place.

Time to see if DMs can lead by example and take their own advice, then. You asked players to be capable of accepting criticism, let's hope you are capable of doing the same.

1. Threats aren't respectful.
2. Be better, not worse than the administration of the server Amia was based on.
3. As DMs, if you wish to keep your player base you must take your own advice and respect your player base.

This means don't ban people just because you dislike them.
This means don't gear strip people as a method of harassment because you dislike them.
This means don't ban people who haven't broken the rules, simply because your friend asked you to.
This means hold a degree of integrity and honesty as a DM, unless you want to be responsible for players quitting the server.

A quality DM knows how to be objective and impartial in their decisions and will never succumb to pressure from a friend to ban someone for biased or illegitimate reasons.

Something collectively understood by the player base here is that Disco cares little to supervise your behavior or keep you in check, which is the reason Amia has the corrupted oligarchy that it has. But that doesn't give you a free ticket to reign without restraint, integrity, or honesty. That doesn't mean you can avoid holding yourself to a high standard of conduct without consequence.

If you choose to abuse the freedom you have by abusing your player base and banning people for biased reasons such as: "I simply don't like you." Then you will lose what players you have left. There is consequence for being dishonest. There is consequence for leaving yourself unchecked, unrestrained, and not acting with integrity. Mistreat the people beneath you, and you will lose them.

It's high time that DMs on Amia learned to reflect upon their own behavior, improve themselves, and for once, be self aware. Treat people with respect, and learn to speak to them, rather than simply throwing bans out like candy, and you will see your player count increase, rather than decrease. Stop acting like dictators in Nazi Germany that censor free speech and hide the truth from people.

Recognize your own behavioral errors, and improve. If you choose to delete this post rather than acknowledge and respond to it civilly, then you will have proved my point, and demonstrated that you cannot, in fact, become better.

Well this isn't Arelith, as you stated, and also please provide evidence for any of those?

Also this isn't a democracy because the server is privately owned and operated by Disco.

This thread is getting a bit out of hand.

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Active
Levexal
Techsmith Tokas Tokersun - http://amiaworld.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88661

Actually, I believe I do have some feedback/criticism.

Right! So, something I've been noticing about the server for a long time now is a heavy lack of consequences (permanent or otherwise) for IC actions as a whole. I understand that certain things generally fall into specific rules, but even with certain things in mind, there's very little that actually happens. But lets go over the problem and then a possible solution.

The Problem

As things are, there doesn't seem to be much of anything stopping players from doing whatever they want with their characters. As a whole, that's cool. People should have that freedom. However, I more mean in the negative sense. Stuff that really doesn't make much sense at all. Death is obviously a trivial thing and people almost always treat it as such IC, as well. That Amia has such heavy access to raise deads that death itself means absolutely nothing at all. Likewise, with these 'immunities' in mind, it drives people to do a lot of stupid things.

Some passive examples to general things that happen can include entering a city and just causing general chaos when there's guards everywhere or even a small army of PCs, challenging and insulting gods or lords of planes (even inside their respective planes), or to expand a little on the first point, openly assaulting fortified cities like Tarkuul or Kohlingen as a single man. Just some examples, but it gets the point across.

With my time here, most of these things have been looked at as simple matters and nothing is ever really done about them. Sure the PCs strike back and certain things aren't even permitted without DM oversight. However, even in the cases of DM oversight, consequences don't seem to exist at all. Whether it's something simply just ignored or railroaded into something else happens. In the case of someone causing chaos with destructive magic in a town, and then getting completely destroyed by a massive gathering of PCs that they knew were there, it really should have more of a consequence.

I understand that DMs are generally very against stuff like forcing something like permadeath unless they do something incredibly stupid that warrants it. However, at the same time, I see these sorts of incredibly stupid things being done myself, and instead of even consideration on permadeath (or even something lesser for that matter), it's just glazed over and railroaded into an inescapable solution where the character in question is brought to freedom and raised or similar.

This very same thing seems to feed the kind of conflict that people don't actually like. Non-stop PvP, for instance, is a huge grievance that people generally just like to avoid. PvP itself is fine and will of course happen, when it comes to conflict. But at the same time, when someone continually tries to initiate PvP, even going so far as to seek out the simplest of reasons just to do so (often also due to having a power build), it becomes extremely annoying as a whole. And such is done because there, again, really isn't any sort of even semi-permanent consequences. But of course, that's more of a difficult thing to deal with than the larger scale things.


Possible Solution

So, as a whole, I can see a solution for larger things that are generally overseen by DMs. In particular, something like assaulting or causing chaos in a city, single-handedly, can come with a warning from the DM stating that it carries a high risk and could lead to something, but not limited to, permadeath. Ask if they still wish to do so and go from there. This sort of thing could discourage just blindly charging into things and perhaps have players think about things more before acting. Come up with more interesting RP for the task at hand, rather than a blind assault.

In the rest of things that perhaps do not have fully DM oversight all the time, but otherwise are a well known entity, such outrageous IC actions should at least be viewed and considered as a whole. This could, again, go back to assaulting a town. Or more-so to the idea of a one man army going against a super power (like a city with a large army). Of course, in these cases DMs aren't around to possess guards and it's up to PCs to stop them. However, guards/militia/etc should be acknowledged as being a present entity, as well. But generally when someone is to make enemies of mostly everyone on the server and they seek their head, it becomes quite boring when it's just a repetitive game of killing and killing again and again and again. Such things should at least be acknowledged and considered as a whole. But that's still a more sensitive subject.


In Conclusion

I, of course, also don't refer to only the consequence of something like permadeath. I had primarily used that as an example as it seems the most relevant as a whole to certain actions done on the server. However, even smaller consequences aren't present. This likewise extends to DM events. Just some semi-permanent or fully permanent consequences for certain actions, as a whole, would make things far more enjoyable on the server. Someone acquires a semi-permanent injury that can't be healed through magical means, someone's weapon gets lost/stolen/destroyed due to their actions, someone gets their soul trapped where the soul gem must be found (which would only be a semi-permadeath), etc. Stuff like that could honestly enrich things and make things a lot more enjoyable as a whole. The lack of any and all consequences right now just makes things become very stale and repetitive, after all.

Thanks for taking the time to read this long post. Also if, for any reason these words are taken in a negative context, I can assure you they are not. I know that sometimes the intentions behind words can be lacking without actually talking to someone to hear their overall mood. But my mood with this is calm and polite as a whole.

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We have never banned anyone because "we do not like them"

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I knew this thread was destined for success since the creation. Kudos, Op!

- Guardian

Ps. Krin nails it again.

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Aaxil M'hallir Zhul - Mercenary, Slaver, Exile
Scribe - The Broken One

As shady as ever. You prove my point by leaving the post to look good in the public eye, while secretly forum banning me in the backlines. Classy. Not abusive whatsoever.



Disco takes a hands off approach to the server. Meaning the power to not be a dictator, to not ban people for speaking their opinion, or disagreeing with you, and to be a respectable DM, lies in your hands.



If you believe that you haven't been paying attention to your administrative friends.

We usually ban people to protect the rest of the player base. And circumventing a ban just to spread more toxic to the server... you are correct.... point proven indeed.

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Whoosh.

OK I am out of this topic! Shoulda followed my own advice!

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM