Going to outline all the deities, how the gods work, and how they are broken down in this thread. This is the first post, addressing the pvp thread. The text in red is what I believe relates to it. The posts following this one will be more neutral in tone.





If you fuck with the evil gods, you get fucked up. This is a failure on the DM team to allow the good guys to simply walk around doing whatever they want with no sort of divine retribution headed their way for their conduct against the evil deities. The Deities of Fury are the easiest to explain in this regard, and I do think Amarice did well with the Auril plot when she had it going on. If you fuck with them you -are- going to get fucked up. If you leave them alone, you might get fucked up. If you give them an offering before a hunt, or before you leave on a sea voyage, or before a harsh winter, you might not get fucked up. If you worship them, spread their dogma, and give up offerings regularly they will likely reward you. That being said, it works both ways. Most people are going to give up offerings to all the gods in order to keep their cosmic 'karma' in a nice, unnoticed balance. Evil give to good, good to evil.

Now I want to go back to the first bit I put in red about law breakers. You could argue in such places like Kohlingen that being evil is a crime, but that is essentially making a law saying "possessing black skin is a crime" so you can say "all chultan and drow are criminals," rather than making any sort of immersive reasoning as to why or why not something should be allowed to interact with the city. Even in places like Spain during the inquisition there were still Jews and Muslims who practiced their faith, they just got their houses burned down by the "good guys." The difference here is, when you piss of the evil gods by killing their worshipers, they sack your temple and slaughter a bunch of people for their souls, or they create a champion by giving him or her a bunch of boons and gifts to do it in their stead.

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And you think good gods let you slap t hem over the face?

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.

I clearly said that they do not. Done arguing with you, as you managed to answer my previous question indirectly.

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Eugh, isn't there a larger question at hand here, rather than nitpicking over lore who's right and who's not? How our forces of evil and good interact is incredibly relevant to the question of what kind of RP we conduct and which kind of conflict we promote, but having gods interfere with secular business on a regular basis sounds extreme.

What is the point you are trying to make here, Akhlys? That the way the gods are being represented on Amia is wrong because it's not in accordance with the lore? Or that there is something detrimental about how the scales of good and evil are tipped and something could be done to it? I am not saying that lore is a topic that can be simply avoided, but in my humbledore, it falls under the same chief question of what is the best possible way for us to conduct our RP; here I see that adherence to lore is just one question among the many, ranging from rules to factions to balance and on and on.

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Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

Here is the second post. The third post will be about the break down of pantheons. This is the information about the Abyss. Demon Lords and Princes are listed here, as well as dark gods that dwell within the abyssal layers. Not all of these will be in Amia, as that is up to the DM team, but these are the ones I found in source books and supplements I found compatible with Forgotten Realms. Some of these names will overlap with Pathfinder source books, but they are not always the same. Off the top of my head the most markedly examples are that of Lamashtu, Nocticula, and Socothbenoth.

I broke them down by the layer. If there is a > next to the name, it means that the layer belongs to the individual listed (some have two 'owners'). The brackets indicate the focuses of the demon lord, which is similar but different to god-like domains or portfolios.

The 73rd Layer will be a bit crazy because of how many demon lords are placed in it. That is because it is a prison for displaced demon lords who have been removed from their seats of power and trapped, as demon lords, much like deities, do not die in a mortal sense. Astaroth is probably the most important of these, as he was a demon lord who posed as an arch devil to gather enough power to ascend to god-hood, only to be found out by the exiled arch devil, Gargauth, who then stole the power and became a god himself.


1st Layer - Pazunia
•> Elbis of the Unbended Knee [refusal to surrender]
• Aldinach, Lady of Change [transformation]
• Baltazo, The Seeping Sovereign [diplomacy, strategy]
• Mastiphal, The Hunting Sovereign [pursuit of prey]

2nd Layer - Driller's Hives
•> Tharzax the Chattering Prince [poisonous vermins]

3rd Layer - The Forgotten Land
•> Zzyczesiya the Ungrasped [confused and malevolent ignorance]

4th Layer - The Grand Abyss
•> Phraxas, Lord of Misery and Despair [misery, despair]
• Asima, the Unanticipated [ill surprises]

6th Layer - Realm of a Million Eyes
•> Great Mother, Princess of Beholders

7th Layer - Kearachkinin, The Phantom Plane
•> Sess'inek, Lord of Lizard Kings [lizardfolk, civilization]

8th Layer - The Skin-shedder
•> Volisupula the Flensed Marquesse [finery, ostentatious ceremony]

13th Layer - Blood Tor
•> Beshaba

14th Layer - The Steaming Fen
•> Queen of Chaos [chaos, obyriths]

17th Layer - Death's Reward
•> Abraxas the Unfathomable [magic words, arcane secrets, talismans]

21st Layer - The Sixth Pyre
•> Kardum, Lord of Balors [balors, fire]

23rd Layer - Iron Wastes
•> Kostchtchie, Prince of Wrath [frost giants, wrath, rage]
• Veshvoriak
• Bayemon of the Unhealing Wound [the afflicted] {dead, Kostchtchie has his head}

27th Layer - Malignebula
•> Lissa'aere the Noxious [poison gas]

32nd Layer - Sholo-Tovoth/The Fields of Consumption
•> Turaglas the Ebon Maw [hunger, consumption]

45th through 47th Layers - Azzagrat
•> Graz'zt [tyrants, despots, guile, debauchery]
• Arzial, the Blooded Baron [subterfuge]
• Verin, Voice of Graz'zt [diplomacy]

49th Layer - Shaddonon
•> Rhyxali, Princess of Shadow [shadow demons, secrets]

57th Layer - Torturous Truth
•> Alvarez, the Purging Duke [inquisition, torture]

66th Layer - The Demonweb Pits
•> Lolth, Demon Queen of Spiders [drow, spiders]

67th Layer - The Heaving Hills
•> Verrangoin

71st Layer - Spirac
•> Soneillon, the Youthful Crone [rejuvenation]

72nd Layer Darklight
•> Nocticula, the Undeniable [night]

73rd Layer - Wells of Darkness
• Ahazu, the Seizer [night, abduction]
• Ansitif, the Befouler [corruption of religious sites and relics]
• Areex, the Forgotten Prince
• Arlgolcheir
• Astaroth, Diabolus [prophecy]
• Cabiri, the Watching Master [observation]
• Ebulon
• Kizarvidexus, the Horned Duke
• Lazbral'thull, the Butcher [torture, bloodletting]
• Rr'ikin'aka, King of Scorpions [scorpions, vermins]
• Shami-Amorae, Lady of Delights [succubi]
• Ungulex, the Second Prisoner (after Ahazu)
• Voroxid [poisonous bones and teeth]

74th Layer - Smargard
•> Meershaulk (yuan-ti)
•> Ramenos (bullywug)
• Sseth

77th Layer - The Gates of Heaven
•> Munkir (The White Guardian) [afterlife, back door to Paradise]
•> Nekir (The Black Guardian) [afterlife, back door to Paradise]

79th Layer - The Emessu Tunnels
•> Anarazel the Daring Darkness [adventurers]

88th Layer - The Gaping Maw/Brine Flats
•> Demogorgon, Prince of Demons [demonkind]

89th Layer - Shadowsea
•>Dagon, Prince of the Depths [creatures of the aquatic deep]

90th Layer - The Guttering Cove
•> Ilsidahur the Howling King [bar-igura]

92nd Layer - Ulgurshek
•> Ulgurshek

100th Layer - The Barrens
•> Oublivae, Queen of Desolation

111th Layer - The Mind of Evil
•> Sch'thrruppasstt the Serpent Reborn [yuan-ti]

113th Layer - Thanatos
•> Orcus, Prince of the Undead [undead, abyssal ascension, escape from death]

128th Layer - Slugbed
•> Luperico, Baron of Sloth [sloth, darkness]

137th Layer - Outcasts' End
•> Azazel, Prince of Scapegoats [blame, absolution]

142nd Layer - Lifebane
•> Chemosh

174th Layer - (no name)
•> Maelstrom (Great Wyrm Red Dragon)

176th Layer - Hollow's Heart
•> Fraz-Urb'luu, Prince of Deception [lies, subterfuge, illusion]

177th Layer - The Writhing Realm
•> Ugudenk the Squirming King [worms and hungry parasites]

181st Layer - The Rotting Plain
•> Laogzed

193rd Layer - Vulgarea
•> Eshebala

222nd Layer - Shedaklah (The Slime Pits)
•> Jubilex (the Faceless Lord)
•> Zuggtmoy (Demoness Lady of Fungi) [fungi, rot, decay]
• Yibyiru, The Rancid Lady of Bitter Bile [poison]

223rd Layer - Offalmound
•> Moander, the Darkbringer

230th Layer - The Dreaming Gulf
•> Azuvidexus, the Ravenous Maw [primeval beasts, scaled nightmares]
• Sikfu [loumaras]
• Xinivrae, (exiled) Queen of Succubi [succubi, seduction of women]

241st Layer - Palpitatia
•> Grankhul and Skiggaret

248th Layer - The Hidden Layer
•> Eltab, Lord of the Hidden Layer [hatred, retribution]

260th Layer - (no name)
•> Alrunes, the Soothing Spirit [protection, sisterhood]

277th Layer - Belistor
•> Yrsillar, Lord of Nothing [greater and lesser dreads]

297th Layer - The Sighing Cliffs
•> Lynkhab, Lady of Regret [depression, desire]

300th Layer - Feng-Tu
•> Tou Mu
•> Lu Yueh

333rd Layer - The Broken Scale
•> Hiddukel
• Salis Thik

348th Layer - Fortress of Indifference
•> Thralhavoc, Shadowmaster [undead shadows, subterfuge]
• Tapheon

359th Layer - The Arc of Eternity
•> Eldanoth the Bloodless Scion [crime, murder]

363rd Layer - (amia's name for it)
•> Paush

380th Layer - The Hungry Tarns
•> Sertrous, Prince of Heretics [parasites, crawling things, serpents]

399th Layer - The Worm Realm
•> Urlden

400th Layer - Woeful Escarand
•> The Lords of Woe

421st Layer - White Kingdom
• Doresain
• King of Ghouls

422nd Layer - The Seeping Woods
•> Yeenoghu, Prince of Gnolls [gnolls]
• Azael, the Ensnared [rebellion, war]
• Bechard, the Rotting Husk [decomposition, obsolescence]

452nd Layer - Ahriman-abad
•> Ahrimanes, Chief of the Cacodaemons [exiles, wanderers]

471st Layer - Androlynne
•> Pale Night, the Mother of Demons [motherhood]

480th Layer - Guttlevetch
•> Zuregurex, Lord of the Drowned [storms, drowned dead]

487th Layer - Lair of the Beast/Mansion of the Rake
•> Kanchelsis

489th Layer - Noisome Vale
•> Tarnhem

493rd Layer - The Steeping Isle
•> Siragle the Ineffable [secret oaths]

503rd Layer - Torremor
•> Pazuzu, Prince of the Lower Aerial Kingdoms [flying creatures, corruption]
• Lamashtu, She Who Erases [monstrous births, deformity]

507th Layer - Occipitus
•> Adimarchus, Prince of Madness [insanity]

524th Layer - Shatterstone
•> Vaprak (ogre and troll god)

528th Layer - Molor
•> Jubilex, the Faceless Lord [oozes, slimes, jellies]

531st Layer - Vudra
•> Shaktari, Queen of Poison [mariliths]

548th Layer - (no name)
•> Haagenti, Lord of Alchemy [alchemy]

558th Layer - Fleshforges
•> Dwiergus the Chrysalis Prince [shaping of demonic races]

566th Layer - Soulfreeze
•> Aseroth the Winter Warlock [cold, ice, corruption, magic]

570th Layer - Shendilavri
•> Malcanthet, Queen of the Succubi [succubi, hedonists]

586th Layer - Prison of the Mad God
•> Diinkarazan

597th Layer - Goranthis
•> Socothbenoth the Persuader [perversions, sexual taboos]

600th Layer - Endless Maze
•> Baphomet, Prince of Minotaurs [minotaurs, beasts]

601st Layer - Conflagratum
•> Alzrius, Lord of Infernal Light [fire, destruction]

643rd Layer - Caverns of the Skull
•> Kali, Black Earth Mother

651st Layer - Nethuria
•> Vucarik, Consort of Chains [chains, torture]

663rd Layer - Zionyn
•> Obox-ob, Prince of Vermin [vermin]

Unknown Layer - Verdant Chasm
•> Chernovog, the Green God [evil druids, vengeful nature, warlocks, evil fey]

Layer-less
• Miska the Wolf-Spider, (former) Prince of Demons

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With my own opinion in regards to the deities, and this goes for both sides of the coin, is that there also really needs to be more consequences for characters actively insulting gods. I've seen such happening quite a lot, and particularly when no DMs are online. Usually this sort of disrespect is treated with, at least, powerful curses or similar. Gods don't generally ignore such blatant disrespect towards them. Some more than others, as well. Now mind you, disrespect towards worshipers is different. But definitely not the deity themselves. Especially when using their actual names in the insults.

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Not sure how the lvls are seen around here but when you reach lvl 30 you are not far from some dieties and probably above some minor...I think this would be a large heads up for the gods of a Pantheon when some orc warlord on lvl 30 pisses on your altar or a pesky gnome made a house out of your Shrine.

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.

I don't exactly understand what you're saying in the first paragraph. If it's a response to what I said or a more generalized comment. I don't mean this to be rude, just a request for clarification.

As for the second paragraph.
• That the evil gods are often laughed at as non-issues. People can openly joke about Bane or Malar without reprisal. I would prefer this reprisal be done by characters, but I feel as if the server has always been quite balanced in the favor of good where these characters need a boost to neutralize the positions.

• I do not believe gods are represented on Amia correctly, according to the source books.

• Good has far too much agency. This is fine if evil has the ability to garner attention to combat said agency, but it does not feel that way. Many people would agree, but I do not think popular or unpopular opinion should be taken into consideration. What should be looked at is how often one side can create opportunities for expansion of plot or story lines.

Good on Amia is a reactive force, requiring either evil players to build something up in order to knock it down, or waiting on a DM to create a threat that requires many groups to band together against it. I rarely see, if ever, a good character going out of their way to go help people out unless a DM is involved. Maybe heal kitting a level 8 that walks through Bendir Dale.

Evil does not require agency to cultivate as long as it is not heavily restricted and regulated. Evil can be done at the simplest level, a level 2 goblin breaking into a house and stealing some gold, up to a level 30 cleric sacrificing a dozen children to make a pact with a demon lord.

I would like to see neutral get attention as well. Playwrights, authors, musicians, capitalist, architects, merchants, blacksmiths, etc. All these things should be rewarded by their respective gods for their deeds. Why can't there be a Cordorian merchant who wants to pave a road through the lizardman swamps so he can get better trade to Wharftown? That needn't be good or evil, and is something I'd like to see more of. Something Waukeen would applaud.

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I always thought that was just a deterrent and a rumor to instill fear and respect, carrying great symbolic value and superstition as a means of dominance. You know, like He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named in Harry Potter. I would not mind having DMs rain divine punishment on blasphemers and defilers, personally I would enjoy that kind of RP, but wouldn't that call for an act of retaliation from the deity whose devout has been punished? Sounds like it might spin out of hand.

Ankhlys: My first paragraph is a generalized comment and not aimed at you directly; it addresses the topic itself, but I see it's part of a bigger question. I just tend to think that Lore is not a valid argument per se - I understand I might be in the minority with my opinion - and hence we should aim the discussion more practically at what could be accomplished by having evil deities intervene in RP. This is something you have already discussed and I agree with the points you make in your post and your analysis. The dialectic between good and evil is crucial to both sides, because it actualises them both; but I also think that evil could actively oppose the undertakings of the good to create conflict.

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Every time you clock in the morning, I feel you just want to kill
All my innocence while ignoring my purpose to persevere as a better person
I know you heard this and probably in fear
-Kendrick Lamar, good kid

I agree. People should be afraid to take a deities name in vein or insult them in their "realm." Right now people just say like "fuck shar" or whatever. Pretty sure she doesn't just let that fly, follower or not.

But yeah I think we need a lot more punishment for this sort of thing. We need more punishment for impeity in general.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM

Fair. I'm not saying to have deities react based on something like "Oh [deity] is stupid and I don't like them." But more something that uses the deities name and gets rather excessive in the insults. Actively insulting and/or challenging the deity in a very open fashion, for instance. Of course, this tends to go more-so for some deities than others. I wouldn't personally bother with small and petty insults, but excessive threats/insults/challenges/etc should definitely call at least some attention from the deity. Especially if their name is invoked.

As for what Budly mentioned, I believe it's been mentioned in the past that level 30 here doesn't mean the same thing as it does in a normal setting. Otherwise all of Amia would be a haven if literal demigods in the case of power. Level 30 is powerful, but not demigod powerful on Amia. Though a DM can likely clarify even more.

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There is a difference between the actual jinxed names and the frequent use of a god's name. Also please do not disregard very recent and past events where groups of individuals received markings and curses, or unleashed demons for the exact same reason what you are mentioning now.

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Lord Hector Sylgerand
Glendil Fettian, the black bard

Not disregarding those were great. We need more of it. Lots more.

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ANT ALARM

ANT ALARM