My question is about Master scout and the following NWN rule.



Now, i do understand 99.999999% of all who have MS lvls' and want to disable traps also have rogue lvl's. But not every one does (like my fighter).


The question is: a Master scout is a hybrid between ranger and rogue (see quotation above) do they also can disable traps above dc 35 or not?

If not, maybe a idea to consider giving them this ability to disable them, as not all survivalist are rogue, and this way you can avoid taking rogue if you do not feel like being a rogue.

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Survivalist often have to deal with traps out in nature, correct? Being a survivalist.

I think these kind of traps, in setting is mechanical master pieces that the trained rogue, the vault breaker is meant to disable. Advanced machinery. I can see a dwarven rogue, with advanced engineer knowledge disabling this very complicated machinery that is a advanced trap. Also to make rogues be valid as a class and not just side stepped by other classes who also can disable traps or dump lot of points into open lock.

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Except Saya with 1 point of investment in disarm trap can deal with pretty much all the traps on the server already. Now, Saya has 13 levels of rogues, but if she had just 1 it would still be the same. I don't see her as being much better at disarming traps than a non-rogue character that would have had invested loads of points into that skill.

I think that "Can't disarm trap with X DC if not rogue" should probably go... but only if it requires no heavy scripting / and no hak update.

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=68657&p=1134526#p1134526

As huge supporter for Master Scout improvements, I have to actually to defend Rogue on this one.

"the Master Scout, a unique 5 level prestige class that blends abilities from the Ranger and the Rogue classes to create the ultimate outdoor survivalist."

I see Master Scout as more of a jack of all trades, and a survivalist in the true sense of the word, they are able to craft set and disarm traps to an extent where they can "make do" and survive most situations with what they have to work with. They are not a rogue nor a ranger, but adopt some traits common to both, and if they were matched up against a heavily invested rogue, they simply shouldn't be able to overcome the same type of challenges as easily, if at all. In this example, advanced traps. The rogue makes it their career to identify incredibly advanced trap mechanisms and learn every intimate detail on how to disarm them and even re-arm them to be used against another, in any environment.

It's key to also pay attention to the fact that a Master Scout is "an outdoor survivalist", which indicates that they would certainly have difficulty tending to an advanced trap in a dungeon somewhere, heavily disguised among the masonry. Yes Master Scout has the Improved Trap kit, but again that only reinforces their ability to make something out of nothing in a twist. Being able to make something doesn't mean that they are then capable of disarming something someone else made.


The DC 36 Rogue restriction is there to enforce the lore behind a rogue being an expert in the matter of traps, and not a generalist like a Master Scout or Ranger because they happen to have mechanical access to the skills and some trap related abilities. In the case of non-Rogue based Master Scouts, I think players should adopt the class to fit with the rest of the theme provided by the other classes that make up their character. For example, a Fighter Master Scout would be well versed in the ways of using natural terrain to take advantage in a fight, they would know how to move fluidly on uneven terrain. They are conditioned to fight in rainstorms and cold temperatures. They are able to use basic items to set up a snare that could incapacitate a foe long enough to get away or take the advantage of their weakened state. But it would not be expected that they would know the intimacies of a trap they have not created themselves, especially one so advanced that none of the triggers, plates, or wards would be visible to them, and disarming the trap might even require them to disarm it blind, simply feeling their way through the mechanism through a small keyhole sized gap whilst using hair thin picks and tools.

If you had a Rogue Master Scout, then the abilities offered by the Master Scout would only emphasize the rogues abilities, and capability to perform in more adverse conditions.

You have to look past the fact that skills can be abused and look at the lore behind the classes and respect and represent them correctly in game for the amount of levels you have taken in them. As Mushidoz mentioned, you can take 1 point in a skill and for the most part, deal with almost any challenge in game (pick lock especially), and if you don't want 1 point, you simply wait till last level to dump everything. It makes zero sense to me that a level 1 skill dump class is apparently as good as a heavily invested class, and it should be a crime to RP as an expert of said class if you only have 1 level in it. But thats for another topic...


Budly summed it up pretty well too.

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I think Master Scout is great enough without this, honestly - and rogue is simple enough to slot into nearly any build.

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I'm pretty sure you can also pick the higher traps up. Only two disadvantages for this. Higher DC, which shouldn't be such a big deal, since you can always swap gear to get like 30+ more ranks. And you don't get xp for it on rhe traps that usually give xp.

It's a bit of a stupid system, but it seems good enough to me.

Edit: I don't know what it actually is called. With picking up I mean where you get the trap to be able to set it again.