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fairdady
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 1:14 AM 

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After 3 pages of decent input and opinions in the Drow/Underdark thread I felt a need to post one concerning the dwarves in the spirit of the previously mentioned thread. What I would like to get feedback on is:

Why do people have an aversion to playing dwarves? I've heard they are confusing, hard to play, things like that. I feel they are one of the funnest races to play and are not all that difficult to get into. What are your thoughts?

In your opinions, how can the Barak Runedar do a better job of attracting you the players to the faction, preferably as a dwarf but RP is RP and we'll take it at the citadel whenever we can get it. We made some changes to make the citadel and dwarves more approachable, less standoffish and shunning. Very interested in hearing your opinions on the vibe the citadel gives to the players.

Besides those that put in the time and effort, and you know who you are and I thank you greatly, I can't help but feel the faction is a bit lacking in numbers and participation. When a DM is running something the dwarves seem to pop out of the woodwork, but we need you folks to play your dwarves moar. And we'd like to pull in some fresh blood as well. Thoughts.. ideas.. concerns??

Thank you all in advance!

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TheGoddessOfAmazing©
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 2:54 AM 

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If I was perfectly honest with you and myself. . . I like playing my pretty characters too much! Sorry. :(

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Bini
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 2:56 AM 

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Sexualize the stunties.

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Mr. Hackums
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 2:59 AM 

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To me, the Dwarves have always appeared Mundane. They're metalworkers, miners, smiths. I know that's a vast generalization, of course. But I'm more keen to.. well. Less work. And I play humans because I enjoy the idea of them being corruptible and weak.

Dwarves are so strong! They're hearty, true, honest, upright. They may not all be good, but they're a pretty rowdy bunch.

I don't know, exactly. I always think it was a matter of taste. That, and player numbers. OH, and the cold.

It might be along the same lines are Maryn's reasons, but those are what I've got. It's just the style of play, or the style of characters that I'm looking for, and find elsewhere. I love characters that aren't straightforward. Crooked, conniving, scheming. Again, it might be a horrible and wrong generalization, but to me, a more common, lore-accurate Dwarf isn't a sneaky fellow.


 
      
DerkDerkistan
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 3:01 AM 

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I know exactly why I don't play dwarves. I watched the Bloodbeards interact with people and realized I could never live up to the awesome (yeah, I know they're duergar, but still).

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Sphinx
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 3:28 AM 

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Only men with beards play dwarves.

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serbiris
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 3:33 AM 

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I have attempted dwarves in the past but I just haven't been able to get into it. I have long suspected it to simply be a personality thing.

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NinjaClarinet
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 4:20 AM 



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A quick trawl though the Dwarf OOC Banter thread just about kills any dwarven libido :P


 
      
-Dark Faith-
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 4:48 AM 

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My issue with dwarves is that I can't take them seriously. I think every other game I've played that featured dwarven characters played them as comic relief (Khelgar from NWN2 and Oghren from DA Origins/Awakening) come to mind. Hell, even Gimli in LOTR felt like comic relief most of the time...

Just can't take them seriously. There's only so much farting and burping and fistfighting I can take before I stop taking someone seriously.
Which is a shame, because they have a lot of traits that would make them a real fun race to play (once you get past the absolutely horrible model they have in nwn).

That said, the folks who manage to play those usually end up being pretty fun RPers to have around.


 
      
serbiris
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 4:53 AM 

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I actually really liked most of the dwarves in Dragon Age. Oghren was a bit of a duffer but he had a serious side (namely his estranged wife issues). The rest of the dwarves, particularly in the Dwarf Noble arc, were incredibly serious. And I don't just mean they were "humans, but short and fat, doing human things", they actually seemed dwarfy. It was enough to make me want to try it, but it still never worked out possibly because I suck at Lawful.

But also unfortunately yeah short people are funny, poor Gimli. He even got Worf'd.

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Liz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 5:29 AM 

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The main reason I've never been interested in playing a dwarf is that I just don't find them very interesting, to be perfectly blunt. There's kind of a stultifying sameness to dwarven RP, I think. Every dwarf I've observed has been some variation on what I call the Four B's: "Beer, Bluster, Beard, and Battle." The common stereotype of a dwarf is so dominant, so strongly ingrained in the popular conception of what it means to be dwarven, that any significant deviation from the stereotype feels like you're not really playing a dwarf any more. (Or, at least it does to me.) Well, I'm not especially interested in the Four B's, meaning any dwarf I'd be playing wouldn't feel much like a dwarf to me. And if it's not going to feel like playing a dwarf, then I'll just play something else.

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Mobile_Svensk
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 8:08 AM 

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The Four B's.. hehheeh... hehehe

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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 8:23 AM 

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It's been mentioned here already, but it was indeed Dragon Age that got me interested in Dwarves.

Not as comic relief, like that Enchantment? Enchantment! guy, but I loved the solidity of the Orzamar culture. There was a certain way that things were, and if you didn't like it... cry me a river. Certain things are expected of you, but no getting ideas above your station, and there were other great concepts, too. Like the Paragons, the Shaperate, etc. Very little of it was comic.

That system provided plenty of intrigue (Particularly for the Dwarf Noble origin), if that was your fancy. Just had to work within the system. Alas Barak Runedar is a relative backwater compared to Orzamar. Don't have quite the same framework (or population) which lessens the need for being a git to make things better for yourself, unfortunately. There are still some common elements in the characterization, tho.

Upon reflection, I'd say the best thing about BR (Aside from how awesome everyone is) is that it's entirely player run. There's no NPC overlord to tell us to shut up and be quiet, we essentially have free run over hundreds of Dwarven grunts. Diplomacy, Warmongering, Trade, etc, etc. All the arrangements are exactly what we want, and anyone can influence if they make themselves apparent. It's interesting.


 
      
survivor2009
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 9:49 AM 



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yay for dwarves! "i'll cleave yer skull"!


 
      
Silkelock
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 9:49 AM 

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In our PnP-group we've always had a saying that take any RPG and you will find a dwarven race who "stat wise" far outshines any one else ;)

That being said, I've had some dwarven chars I've played in regular PnP and as someone pointed out about the behaviour of the shorties. However, playing a dwarf not initiated into a society leaves you open for ridicule a lot :p

I think the dwarfs should threw an event to get players to interact with them more and in the extension of that more dwarves might show up ;)

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Gobbledygook
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 10:01 AM 

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I've never had the slightest urge to play a Dwarf. They don't appeal to me at all. But that said, I love interacting with them in game. :) Would be very happy to see more of them about!

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CelestialDante
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 10:48 AM 

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I love my dwarf character but i'm too busy on my other characters. :(

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Dead
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 13:16 PM 

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I had about 10 dwarves on Amia. I need a break from them.

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fairdady
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 14:18 PM 

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The Four B's, haha that's funny but so true! Most dwarves get pretty stereotypical and want to stay in what's considered the "norm". I say though don't be afraid to step outside that norm into a slightly different concept. We have some sneaker dwarves about that are fun to run with, Runa isn't as beer and bluster as the rest of us, one of my favs was/is Dain Saltbeard the seafaring dwarf. Does Dain catch crap for being "different" sure he does, but it's part of the enjoyment, well it is for Reddok anyway because he enjoys tormenting him a bit and they became pretty fast friends due to Dain's honor and involvement at the time.

We have had a couple of Ruhn monk dwarves made but I haven't seen them getting played much. I was so looking forward to a new avenue of RP to open up around the citadel and the monastery but it has yet to take off, perhaps a little nudge to those players eh?? The monks will certainly be outside the "norm" of dwarven society within the citadel, but I think it has great potential!

We've ran a couple events thus far and invited friends and allies to attend. The Coin Festival was open to most goodly folk, was fun and pulled in a decent crowd and a pretty good haul for the citadel and had some good RP with the merchants that showed up to sell their wares and the live auction. We hold ceremonies and festivals to honor the Mordinsamman, most friends and allies are invited though I'm sure that sort of thing doesn't appeal to most characters, a few non-citizens have showed. The Commemoration of the Fallen will be at the end of next month. We want to hold another Coin Festival but the current siege/war plot on Brogendenstein keeps us from hold another at the moment. So if you are interested in attending any dwarven events, keep your eyes and ears open, we'll be scheduling some! Not to mention the current large plot running out there.

Thanks for the comments and feedback thus far, I look forward to reading more!

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Pony
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 16:06 PM 



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There are two primary things that interrest me most when roleplaying.

The first is the classical adventure story that I learned to love when I played my first DSA Campaign. A group of bold and not so bold want-to-be heros go out in the world to make a name for themselves. They face great challenges, encounter fascinating people, mysteries, places and events, rely on their wit and sword, and write their own history in the fantastical world through danger, sweat and blood. The stories and riddles have always been the driving force for me. Hunting gets stale without a story to me. For this very reason I created Isabella Crowell, hoping for the more classical rping experience.

The second is exploring the cultural and political aspects of the world and all that goes along with it. To deal with the great threats from a more npc oriented position. Robert clearly is the character that stills my craving for that. I love the tensions and threats, the diplomatic games of intriques, the unspoken motives and manipulations, the world altering decisions and the work to remain a player and not a pawn, or at least to get to the point the character can believe he is no longer a simple pawn.

Rondra, my dwarf, was my hope for both. I loved Dragon Age Origins and always liked dwarves well enough, but Barak Runedar did not enthrall me enough to invest my play time of Robert or Isabella into her. I felt she was a bit two dimensional, not necessarily because of how I played her, but because I felt there was not much oppertunity to explore any real character depth. There was a lack of political intriques, the culture was not rich enough for me,, and I did not experience the classical adventure calling her to any interresting events.


 
      
Strawberry Stallion
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 16:11 PM 

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Could my high-constitution halfling count as an honouary Dwarf? Otherwise, I really don't know, never seen the overall appeal of playing a Dwarf, though it may be more so because I have an avasion to playing melee-based characters as of late; which I think stems from wanting characters with a bit more complexity than those that run around hitting things.

tl'dr I don't know. Never really gave them a proper try.

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msheeler
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 17:19 PM 

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If its any incentive for folks to play some more dwarves here is some eye candy for you:

Brogendenstein 2.0

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msheeler
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 17:20 PM 

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The preceeding post is a current work in progress. This does not guarentee that particular scene will be in the module, but I sure am trying! :)


 
      
fairdady
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 17:45 PM 

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:shock:

*hugglemugs msheeler!!*

You are such a tease! Can't wait to see moar!!


And for Thoice: It is possible to become a non-dwarf citizen of the citadel now days. Ask Zelly, Jerlanna, and currently another halfling is earning his way into citizenship! Though we'd like to have more dwarves around obviously, we won't turn away avenues of RP that fit within the current aspects of Barak Runedar.

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Remal
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 18:45 PM 

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Thoice wrote:
Could my high-constitution halfling count as an honouary Dwarf?


As fairdady said, there are ways to become citizen of Barak Runedar without being a dwarf. And that is easily found IC.

Quote:
Otherwise, I really don't know, never seen the overall appeal of playing a Dwarf, though it may be more so because I have an avasion to playing melee-based characters as of late; which I think stems from wanting characters with a bit more complexity than those that run around hitting things.


I'd love to see non-fighter based dwarves. Clerics, mages, bards, druids, all of those and more can fit.
Also, your character's complexity doesn't depend on classes he/she has. Dunno from where did you get that conclusion...

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 21:06 PM 

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Quote:
Why do people have an aversion to playing dwarves? I've heard they are confusing, hard to play, things like that. I feel they are one of the funnest races to play and are not all that difficult to get into. What are your thoughts?


Same as many other races, building the mindset for the race. Getting inside the "language", people tend to use words of their race even though they are speaking in that language which should mean there are no need to use those words. (Understandable if using common and having mixed words there) Getting inside the culture and the circle of players associated there, learning a whole new world in order to play one properly.

If a dwarf came and did/said something, I felt like I didn't know how to act. What was expected of me, what was the dwarfen way to act.

I am elven player, in my opinion, the dwarfs are like the night to what elves are. I a sense. I have played a dwarf, I did enjoy it. But it lacked the aspect of arcane. How I see it is that there is nothing that dwarf can do that elf couldn't do as well. I don't like what the dwarfs represent, earth, underground, stone, stoic...

I also during my playing found it that it was hard to match my time with the other players,.

Quote:
In your opinions, how can the Barak Runedar do a better job of attracting you the players to the faction, preferably as a dwarf but RP is RP and we'll take it at the citadel whenever we can get it. We made some changes to make the citadel and dwarves more approachable, less standoffish and shunning. Very interested in hearing your opinions on the vibe the citadel gives to the players.


How to make any race more player friendly, taking down the borders that keep people out.

1. The need of knowing some special words. Usually the player using race word, doesn't bother to give the meaning of it. IC:ly you should know but OOC:ly no clue.

2. Making the world of dwarfs more friendlier to difference.

However the problem in these are that the whole atmosphere suffers. Ofc it can give a taste to RP. Perhaps the best advice I can offer is:

3. Help new players to intercrate into dwarfen society. Helping them with the words and culture of dwarfs. How? I don't know.

Quote:
Besides those that put in the time and effort, and you know who you are and I thank you greatly, I can't help but feel the faction is a bit lacking in numbers and participation. When a DM is running something the dwarves seem to pop out of the woodwork, but we need you folks to play your dwarves moar. And we'd like to pull in some fresh blood as well. Thoughts.. ideas.. concerns??


The same problem with Winya in my opinion. When people are organizing some event that could get a DM there or a DM makes an event, we suddenly have a whole army of elfs. People tend to want to be there where action takes place, where RP can be found. Winya and Brogenstain IC laws kinda prevent certain kind of RP taking place. (Which I don't mind at all.)

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Silent2001
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 31 2012, 21:07 PM 

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If you like bloodied and bitter warfare and making horrible decisions that might lead to more evil than good then I suggest you throw yourself heads first into dwarvern roleplay. We'll see how pure and good they are when I'm through with them.

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steveb_uk
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 1:13 AM 

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Gotta say, from a purely rp point of view, I made my first dwarf a few months back and it's the most fun I've had on Amia. Great group of people, hilarious culture rp, really worth doing if you've never played one!

And my Dwarven bard gets to yell "We're gonna CHOP yer BITS off" while banging a hammer on a shield and call it 'singing'.

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WinterBlaze
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 2:24 AM 

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fairdady wrote:
It is possible to become a non-dwarf citizen of the citadel now days. Ask Zelly, Jerlanna, and currently another halfling is earning his way into citizenship! Though we'd like to have more dwarves around obviously, we won't turn away avenues of RP that fit within the current aspects of Barak Runedar.


Theres always a catch... I bet theres a height limit in place, nobody over 4'4 gets in :P

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Bobo_Underhill
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 7:19 AM 

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What turns me off about dwarves is that they all seem to be the same and that isn't appealing to me.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... AllTheSame

Hence, rehashing the same basic character that's been done constantly feels like it's creatively stagnant, which is why I tend toward humans lately, and halflings to a lesser extent.

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WinterBlaze
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 8:05 AM 

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Uncle-Opustus
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 13:04 PM 

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Dwarves are awesome. They're a dour people with a penchant for the simple pleasures of life; physical work, family, food, hunting, building, crafting, mining, and other pragmatic things. The basic social functions revolve around these activities that are deemed for the best of the collective. In that manner, I like to think the traditional life of a dwarf is largely based upon elements from Nationalist Socialism with the idea of communism restricted only to your own nation. For example, you're not allowed to sell products or raw materials that have been extracted from the soil of your home without a permission from the authorities, but that pertains to religious matters rather than practical ones. Everything is shared among the dwarves, although in bigger abodes some form of social stratification exists between prestigious and less prestigious families, but that's like having multiple communities akin to Barak Runedar forming a larger and sophisticated tribal entity.

I also like to think that despite the dwarven way of life being a relatively conservative form of living, it by no means is a patriarchy. Women seldom command the sovereignty of kings or thanes, but they are included in every aspect of society; politics, warfare, and all traditionally masculine occupations are held as equally important matters to both the males and the females, though naturally it is the duty and privilege of the woman bear the child and take care of its upbringing. And as the fantasy realm shouldn't be contrasted by modern standards, that is actually a matter of genuine reverence in the dwarven society.

I personally like to think of the dwarves and their way of life as a mix-up of ideals gleaned from Tolstoyism (disapprobation of private property and appreciation of physical labour and earthly beauty), National Socialism (racism, isolationism, nationalism, etc.), and socialism (economy, abolishment of social classes, and altruism in the form of brotherly kindness, and extreme opprobrium towards selfishnenss and egoism if exhibited within the community, though they're the vainest and most arrogant arses towards everyone else). And the dwarven pantheon, oh boy. Think what fun it would be playing something even slightly deviant in a system that repressive and absolute in its moral values!

I hope I don't sound too fangirl, but squeeeeeeeeeee! They're adorable!

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P Three
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 13:16 PM 

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TheGoddessOfAmazing© wrote:
If I was perfectly honest with you and myself. . . I like playing my pretty characters too much! Sorry. :(

For me? This. I'm squat and funny looking in real life. I have no desire to pretend to be what I already am.

That said, I'd be willing to give it a shot if there is RP to be had.

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serbiris
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 13:24 PM 

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Uncle-Opustus wrote:
Dwarves are awesome. They're a dour people with a penchant for the simple pleasures of life; physical work, family, food, hunting, building, crafting, mining, and other pragmatic things. The basic social functions revolve around these activities that are deemed for the best of the collective. In that manner, I like to think the traditional life of a dwarf is largely based upon elements from Nationalist Socialism with the idea of communism restricted only to your own nation. For example, you're not allowed to sell products or raw materials that have been extracted from the soil of your home without a permission from the authorities, but that pertains to religious matters rather than practical ones. Everything is shared among the dwarves, although in bigger abodes some form of social stratification exists between prestigious and less prestigious families, but that's like having multiple communities akin to Barak Runedar forming a larger and sophisticated tribal entity.

I also like to think that despite the dwarven way of life being a relatively conservative form of living, it by no means is a patriarchy. Women seldom command the sovereignty of kings or thanes, but they are included in every aspect of society; politics, warfare, and all traditionally masculine occupations are held as equally important matters to both the males and the females, though naturally it is the duty and privilege of the woman bear the child and take care of its upbringing. And as the fantasy realm shouldn't be contrasted by modern standards, that is actually a matter of genuine reverence in the dwarven society.

I personally like to think of the dwarves and their way of life as a mix-up of ideals gleaned from Tolstoyism (disapprobation of private property and appreciation of physical labour and earthly beauty), National Socialism (racism, isolationism, nationalism, etc.), and socialism (economy, abolishment of social classes, and altruism in the form of brotherly kindness, and extreme opprobrium towards selfishnenss and egoism if exhibited within the community, though they're the vainest and most arrogant arses towards everyone else). And the dwarven pantheon, oh boy. Think what fun it would be playing something even slightly deviant in a system that repressive and absolute in its moral values!

I hope I don't sound too fangirl, but squeeeeeeeeeee! They're adorable!



Wait what I like my dwarves as greedy bastards.

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Uncle-Opustus
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 13:37 PM 

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P Three wrote:
That said, I'd be willing to give it a shot if there is RP to be had.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63639, here you go, deary.

And for the record, dwarves are perfectly good-looking in the non-good-looking dwarven kind of way. You just, like, have to be tuned in your character. Roleplay and stuff, maaan, succumb to your inner dwarf.

Serbiris: Yus, they have an innate fondness for shiny things, but most believe that discipline is key and that distinguishes them from other races. Dwarves who give in to these cravings often, I imagine, do so in petto and turn to worhship Abbathor. The less greedy buggers, who just enjoy the art of trade and haggle, tend to serve Vergadain who endorses individual wealth, but not to the detriment of your family: "Treat others with respect, but shirk not your responsibilty to try to strike a deal better for you than for them[...]". So yeah, I was referring to not being a greedy bastard in terms of not contributing to the wellbeing of your home and family. Most dwarves might not give a crap about impoverishing the people of other races at the expense of their own greed. After all I mean, they did most of the work, because hey, they're dwarves and automatically more competent in whatever practical matter. And beard. But still, I don't think Vergadain in many respects is in the good graces of the rest of the Mordinsamman.

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fairdady
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 18:20 PM 

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Opustus's inspiring words have lured us one into the nets! Cmon ya silly gits, you know you want to. You can't deny the siren song call of the dwarves!! We're altitude challenged, alcohol resistant, full of good humor and plenty of bluster, and grow fabulous sexxy beards! What more could you ask for?? :twisted:

The winds of change still blow around Barak Runedar as they continue to try and keep the citadel on the path of prosperity. The current big plot running will cause hard choices to be made and harder consequences to pay if I know Silent at all.

We may not be the tops when it comes to political intrigue at the moment, but I know I for one have several things I wish to accomplish within the faction/citadel, the main thing holding us back is some boots on the ground and participation. Barak Runedar has plenty of history behind it, and much ahead, but really we're near a blank slate in terms of what we can accomplish! Play a stuntie and get involved if you crave the RP and fun interaction of your fellow players and wish to bend and meld the server to your will via our RP and planning.

Seats are open and need filled on the council to get involved in the future of Barak Runedar, citizens are all invited to the meetings which are held weekly to get their voices heard on matters and to vote, crafters and resource gatherers are needed like a fish needs water.

I'm enjoying reading the thread, thank you all, don't mind me please continue.

Do not deny your inner dwarf! Heed the call of Barak Runedar! You know you want to...

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Bobo_Underhill
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 19:20 PM 

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You didn't acknowledge my point.

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-Dark Faith-
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 19:49 PM 

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Bobo_Underhill wrote:
What turns me off about dwarves is that they all seem to be the same and that isn't appealing to me.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... AllTheSame


I too worry about this to a certain extent.

Back on another server, I rolled a dwarf that was different from the rest of the gang, by not having a beard down to his knees, using a dwarven waraxe, being a DD, having a scotsman's accent and cussing left and right while being drunk 90% of the time (or farting when he's not). In fact, said dwarf was a rogue type in chainmail with a soft spot for throwing axes. What happened was that the rest of the dwarves decided to ignore my character because it was different from the rest of them. Now.. I'm not saying this would happen here, but that episode leaves me reluctant to make another attempt.

I LOVED how Orzammar's society was depicted in Dragon Age, and it somehow fits with my mental image of dwarves: Rigid and stubborn as the stone which supposedly they came from, yet honorable and hardworking. Masters of crafting and sturdy warriors. The kind of guys you can always rely on when things get rough. However I'm not sure how that translates into D&D, or even Amia, since over the years, most dwarves I've met were drunken sods who loved their weapons in ways a man should never love their weapon in.
I'm not trying to say that dwarves suck! I'm just curious wether or not there's room for dwarves that deviate from the "Four B's" mentioned early in the thread.
In my mind, dwarves seem awesome, but I'm worried that people seem perfectly fine with rolling the stereotype and thus, as Bobo mentions, becoming creatively stagnant.

(Again, I don't regularly interact with the dwarven crew in Amia. These are just my observations from RPing with other dwarves over the years. If I am wrong, please prove me wrong. If things seem interesting enough, I'm quite willing to give it a try.)


 
      
fairdady
 
PostPosted: Thu, Nov 01 2012, 20:18 PM 

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OK Bobo I'll bite. I find the dwarves about "all the same" as the elves, halflings, and most of the humans I've come across really. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just a racial thing. OK, dwarves use primarily axes and hammers, elves seems to like that longsword of theirs and bows. Halflings, short swords, bows, daggers. It's the same thing only a different flavor. If you are hesitant because you feel dwarves are all to similar, nothing stops anyone from making a dwarf outside the norm such as Dain Saltbeard or Hunar the druid. There have been other nonconformists though short lived in their play time.

I can only really talk for my character on a personal level. Reddok couldn't craft a damn thing if you kidnapped Zelly and held her hostage. He was a military grunt, defender of the clan home. He had some bar room diplomacy success within the military ranks back then, he tries to continue being a diplomat for Barak Runedar though in over his head by a great deal by his assessments but he keeps up the effort, he was a Drill Master with the clan but hasn't been in charge of military aspects of the citadel since his arrival and that skill set is waning, he's trying to learn the arts of Engineering currently though it is a slow process due in part to his duties.

Runa is one of the few that stand out as not your typical dwarf. She is not very blustery, she doesn't swig down ale by the flagon, could use maybe a bit more stubble on that chin, she is a good representative of the Revered Mother, I can't recall off the top of my head but she may even use a mace rather than a hammer, certainly not an axe. She concerns herself with things most of the other fellas don't. Gul as most know is a damn fine RPer.

Whurak and Grimdur started as part of a trio that created a group called the Raiders, a stealth based tunnel exploration team. No heavy plate armor for these dwarves no sir! Sure they love their axes, but of the variety you throw at foes faces. Both Aruroa and Winds of Strom are wonderful RPers. Whurak makes leather goods, Reddok hardly goes no where without the pack Whurak made him.

Aaegus, is your crafter type of dwarf. He obsesses over the ore and forge. Being a screamer of Clangeddin he loves his axes. He is dutiful to no end, filling the citadel coffers with many finely crafted weapons and armors. He and Corinn are involved in heavy RP researching and building a new type of forge. Aaegus has stepped up in several ways after being called upon. He was Runa's assistent to Finance when she was High Councilor, he spearheaded a few initiatives for the citadel one of which was helping get a brew station added to Barak Runedar. Luckbringer is always fun to play around and great to RP with.

I can go on.. but I will say this again, it's not that we discourage non-traditional dwarven builds, though we do have to RP the social aspect of them a bit, it's just that folks haven't made many stunties that reach outside of that norm to far. If they do for some reason they don't play them long, be it because we don't have a great deal of dwarves running around to help them at this point in time or if they loose interest. If folks want to see more individualized dwarves I welcome, no highly encourage, you to make/play one and bring it! 8)

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Luckbringer
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 15:09 PM 

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-Dark Faith- wrote:
I LOVED how Orzammar's society was depicted in Dragon Age, and it somehow fits with my mental image of dwarves: Rigid and stubborn as the stone which supposedly they came from, yet honorable and hardworking. Masters of crafting and sturdy warriors. The kind of guys you can always rely on when things get rough.


That is basically what dwarves are in FR lore as well... and on Amia. I don't know many dwarves on Amia who are the farting, loud mouthed drunks that are stereotypical. Well not the ones who stick around. It's a pity that this trope has appeared. If anyone has read the few D&D sources on dwarves e.g. Dwarves Deep, Complete Book of Dwarves, Races of Faerun etc.. there's nothing that says that a typical dwarf is a bad mouthed, dirty, fight crazy drunk. That is kept to a small minority of berserkers that do exist in dwarven society, but to a minimum because Dwaves don't embrace chaos well. They like laws and order. Which means they wash often, don't let themselves lose control in a constant state of drunkenness (yes, they love ale and they use fermentation to purify their water sources, but also have a high tolerance to toxins so can drink more then most), and don't go around picking fights with people for no good reason. They don't love war, they're just very good at it because of millennia of conflict against invaders, and they don't fear death. They are typically honorable and respectful people.

Yes, dwarven society is very ridge and closed in a typical stronghold but Barak Runedar is far from being a typical stronghold.. all the leadership PCs there are from the adventuring class of dwarves e.g. those that have left their own strongholds and wandered the world. Really any dwarf found on Amia would be the same. Adventuring dwarves in essence are exceptions from the norm. The majority of dwarves would spend their whole lives in the same stronghold they were born, labouring away at their given profession until they die. You just don't see them because they stay hidden from the world in there mountain homes. That is 95% of dwarves. Therefore by already being outside of the norm in dwarven society, and being from the 5%, adventuring PC dwarves have opportunity to be flexible with their characters and would be easily accepted by the other PC dwarves in Barak Runedar since they have that in common.

Of course races have they're own racial traits and personalities, and I think you have to stick to them to some degree otherwise you are not doing them justice. There is no point playing a dwarf if for example you like all the typical halfling or elf racial personality types, you might as well just make a halfling or elf. But with in each race there is a ton of room to maneuver. You could easily make a dwarf who is curious and lighthearted like a halfling but also keep to the honorable and stubborn dwarveness.

Yes, I made a typical crafting dwarf.. because strangely enough there was a huge void of these around on Amia. I feel some people have to represent the stereotypes in the FR setting we play in. Not everyone can be an odd ball all of the time otherwise the odd balls just become the norm.

EDIT: forgot to mention Gold Dwarves ! actually are the polar opposite to the common sarcastic, pessimistic and grumpy shield dwarf. They're brash, overly confident and optimistic... a lot of fun to play for a bit of alternative dwarven flavor. And no charisma penalties!

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Last edited by Luckbringer on Fri, Nov 02 2012, 15:19 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
TheGoddessOfAmazing©
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 15:19 PM 

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I'll bite. Can someone give me the names of good sourcebooks to read up on dwarves?

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Luckbringer
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 15:23 PM 

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Luckbringer wrote:
Dwarves Deep, Complete Book of Dwarves, Races of Faerun


Oh yeah Races of Stone.. but that's 3.5 the deities have been changed and a few other bits so I try to avoid it.

I think this is pulled from Dwarves Deep:
[url]
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Races/Dwarf ... troduction[/url]

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TheGoddessOfAmazing©
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 15:37 PM 

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Luckbringer wrote:
Luckbringer wrote:
Dwarves Deep, Complete Book of Dwarves, Races of Faerun


Oh yeah Races of Stone.. but that's 3.5 the deities have been changed and a few other bits so I try to avoid it.

I think this is pulled from Dwarves Deep:
[url]
http://www.nj-pbem.com/data/Races/Dwarf ... troduction[/url]


thanks!

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Jes
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 16:24 PM 

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I just gotta add here! Dwarves are not as boring and standard as a lot of people think they are. Playing Zelly around the dwarves quite frequently has shown me that there are plenty of ways you can take a dwarf character - just as many ways as you can take an elf or a halfling. Saying that they're all the same or that they're a boring race because there's no diversity is insulting to anyone who's done dwarf very well. That seems to be a limitation to your own imaginations - not a fault to the dwarves as a race.

I don't mean any offense to anyone, of course. But seriously! Don't like the "stereotype"? Then play outside of the stereotype. People do it all the time with the other races. Why treat dwarves differently and then blame them for uninteresting qualities?

:D

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serbiris
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 16:56 PM 

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To my knowledge, the "Dwarves are all the same" trope isn't an indictment on player characters so much as the reality of fiction across the board; *ALL* dwarves follow the Tolkien model which itself was barely modified from the original Norse. Individual dwarves may differ to the extent where you can make interesting characters but it's very hard to find fiction containing dwarves wherein they are not short stocky bearded Scandinavian/Russian/Celtic-evocative substance-abusing earthy crafter/warriors of rigid clan-based society. Except in the very rare cases where they actively attempt to subvert this (and the few where you can't really tell because the dwarves are the lost civilisation of high-tech delved-too-deepers). Contrast: Elves have remotely more variance (you can have magicky elves, more naturey elves, city elves, rogue-elves christmas elves, space elves - which are taken moderately more seriously than the dwarven counterpart...), humans are always a baseline, halflings are pretty firmly Tolkien/D&D and otherwise don't get out much, vampires are *always* different, and even orcs tend to vary a bit more (although they are super unpopular and no one really cares - uglyness is a factor).

What this means is that dwarves are often unattractive to players because we've all seen them in one major piece of fiction or another wherein they mostly do the same thing, and in playing them we need to strike a balance between that heavily-reinforced stereotype with enough variance to make it interesting. Which is pretty damn hard and does take a degree of dedication. It's also an issue of overexposure, ie they don't stand out enough in a fantasy world to draw people in, although this more exacerbates the existing issue rather than standing alone as a problem (overexposure to elves doesn't have quite the same effect for example).

So yeah, I don't think it's fair to say our imagination is at fault, it's an issue of the race being between a rock and a hard place. It can be done and done well at least, so all hope is not lost.

At least dwarves do better than duergar - a race designed to be so so utterly boring that I'm amazed that Bloodbeard even existed (although personally I think they should set the standard).

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-Cloak-and-Dagger-
 
PostPosted: Fri, Nov 02 2012, 17:57 PM 

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Luckbringer wrote:
Luckbringer wrote:
Dwarves Deep, Complete Book of Dwarves, Races of Faerun


Oh yeah Races of Stone.. but that's 3.5 the deities have been changed and a few other bits so I try to avoid it.


I wouldn't wipe my arse on Races of Stone. If I could wipe my arse on a pdf, that is. It's not just that's it 3.5, is a decidedly non-FR effort that tries to reinvent the wheel.

The original quote there is a solid selection.


 
      
steveb_uk
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 03 2012, 12:28 PM 

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Regarding dwarves being short/not pretty, what helped is that as far as they're concerned, they're THE RIGHT SIZE and to each other, RUGGEDLY HANDSOME and/or properly attractive. You just need to get into the mindset that *everyone else is the wrong size*.

I too play to be a prettier superhero than RL, but I never had a problem with my dwarf, because he believes he is brilliant at all times. :D

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Slade
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 04 2012, 6:37 AM 



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I love dwarf RP but mechanically, using earth genasi or human is far superior. Dwarven defender as it is is a weak and boring class. Some servers beef it quite a bit, letting it's DR work on all energy types for example and other 'tanky' modifications that might help.


 
      
Manarethan
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 04 2012, 6:43 AM 

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Not playing a particular race because it isn't mechanically powerful is quite dissapointing...


 
      
Strawberry Stallion
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 04 2012, 14:11 PM 

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I concur.

The genasi are applicable to every race, so if you want to be earth genasi dwarf, nothing's really stopping you, though it's still rather disappointing that's one of your biggest concerns with not playing a race.

I didn't pick a race with +int for my wizard, I went with what I would find the most entertaining and fitting for the character I had in mind. Think with character design/concepts, not builds and stats.

tl;dr do what you want

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