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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 23 2017, 21:34 PM 

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Not that long ago, a ruling was made here:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88663


With the buff to red dragon disciples making them ridiculously powerful, many characters suddenly popped out and are higher level than 10 in that prestige class (while before I think maybe three characters ever went there?). That also meant that the ruling that was made was absolutely necessary, because it sets an example that carebear black dragons and hitler gold dragons shouldn't be a thing on a roleplay server that has lore associated with said class.

However, I am opening this discussion thread because I want to know why "level 10+" was chosen. The reason I write this now is because I've had enough of my share of seeing very doubtful comments in game that might suggest this ruling is not tight enough, and could be confusing to some.

----

I've seen several people say very odd things to me in game. Like, how dragon discipline doesn't change them until they reach level 10+ and how "a red dragonkin could be a good samaritan, saving orphans from certain death" or how "a bronze dragon could tie and torture someone as a joke" (these aren't real examples I heard, replace by "good dragons doing evil things" and "evil dragonkins doing good things" if you do not like the images provided. I heard something similar today from someone in game, and that was not the first time (I am not naming you, you are not the first to have a similar discourse either, and you yourself seemed to play your character fine so please let's keep this anonymous, that isn't the point of this thread! :))

If people (again, multiple players) misinterpret that ruling, is it safe to assume that perhaps it needs to be even tighter and be enforced more actively in game so that people aren't confused? For example, perhaps the rule could apply the moment your character spurts wings (that way it would serve as an visual indication for players to know... and really, when your character has scales, breathes fire, and has grown freaking wings, I say you're way passed the point of minor changes, and I assume you changed just as much mentally as you did physically at that point).

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Jes
 
PostPosted: Mon, Oct 23 2017, 22:45 PM 

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The rule was already one-step for alignment. The "new rule" only changes on the Good/Evil axis. You could never make a CG Red dragon disciple or a LE gold dragon disciple, for example.

There is some lore floating about regarding dragons of the wrong alignment, but that is mostly 4th Edition or early-early 1st and 2nd edition stuff. Amia is 3/3.5, though, and has always been very strict about the alignments of the dragons. Provided no one is actually RP'ing evil stuff on a good dragon kin, or being very blatantly goody-goody on an evil dragon kin, then I think it's all right, really.

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InquisitorBiologos
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 0:53 AM 

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As a new player who has no interest in playing an RDD ever (for once not being ironic here) given how (ridiculously) over powered they are why is the class-slash-race open and not request only anyway?

I have seen maybe a dozen or more newish characters becoming RDD in my few months on this server and honestly paid it no mind but omg now I see why...

Free 80 levels worth of stat increases
Free Greater than epic loot elemental resistance
Free AC worth several armour skin feats
Free high SR

Most of that with a relatively low investment into the class and no apparent weakness or flaws and very low pre-reqs?

I'm just curious because as I understand it a request to play an unusual race does not get abilities or stats of that race and is essentially a basic race with a skin change, it just seems odd to make something as apparently game breathtakingly over powered without trammels a sure way to end up with a state of affairs requiring this thread and the one linked by the op. I.E. people baking toons for the mechanical power with little to no understanding or appreciation of the lore they must abide by.


Last edited by InquisitorBiologos on Tue, Oct 24 2017, 1:10 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 1:07 AM 

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Don't mistake my red for anything good :P She is NOT cleaving your heads off for a reason.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 1:13 AM 

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InquisitorBiologos wrote:
As a new player who has no interest in playing an RDD ever (for once not being ironic here) given how (ridiculously) over powered they are why is the class-slash-race open and not request only anyway?

I have seen maybe a dozen or more newish characters becoming RDD in my few months on this server and honestly paid it no mind but omg now I see why...

Free 80 levels worth of stat increases
Free Greater than epic loot elemental resistance
Free AC worth several armour skin feats
Free high SR

Most of that with a relatively low investment into the class and no apparent weakness or flaws and very low pre-reqs?

I'm just curious because as I understand it a request to play an unusual race does not get abilities or stats of that race and is essentially a basic race with a skin change, it just seems odd to make something as apparently game breathtakingly over powered without trammels a sure way to end up with a state of affairs requiring this thread and the one linked by the op. I.E. people baking toons for the mechanical power with little to no understanding or appreciation of the lore they must abide by.


18-20 levels is not low investment.

The class is still nerfed compared to the default nwn version since the stats have been rearranged to avoid 4 RDD dumping or full str bonus without investing 12 DD.

If you see a DD breaking the rules, report it and the DM team will deal with it. It is that simple.

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InquisitorBiologos
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 1:36 AM 

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Maverick00053 wrote:
18-20 levels is not low investment.


Well that's not entirely what I said, a cursory look at the progression clearly shows that you get an amazing amount for each single level from 1-12, with the rest requiring 15+ levels.

No other class gets a fraction of those stats for far more investment I would have to say.


Maverick00053 wrote:
If you see a DD breaking the rules, report it and the DM team will deal with it. It is that simple.


Don't get me wrong I don't care how strong the class is from the point of view of removing or nerfing it, I'm just expressing surprise that such a stat breaking version of the class is allowed here without request whilst making it firm that request races wont get their proper stats even though they will be far lower than RDD.

I'm personally glad I don't have and don't want an RDD as I do not envy those with a vested interest in policing their fellow players on the minutia of their RP regarding if their RP was within good and evil or chaos and lawful bounds pursuant to what colour dragon disciple they are! :D


 
      
Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 1:44 AM 

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Dragon Disciple is a stat focused class.

Look at almost every other prestige class and they also get some pretty terrifying upgrades.

Black Guards at 16 get some monsterous summons. Some of the strongest period, imo.

Assassin at 18 gets an insta kill on hit.

Shifter gets some insane shifter forms.

Purple Dragon Knight gets auras that make it immune to Dev crit.

Etc.

You are getting too worked up over the pure stat increase. A pure 18 or 20 DD is pretty strong right now but it isn't single handily destroying the server.

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InquisitorBiologos
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 2:03 AM 

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Maverick00053 wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight gets auras that make it immune to Dev crit.


Just a side bar, Vehement charge doesn't make you immune to dev crit, you still get knocked down and you still take the damage from when i tested it you just don't get blinded.

Maverick00053 wrote:
You are getting too worked up over the pure stat increase.


Not the least bit worked up, stating an opinion based on the facts as laid out on the RDD entry on the side bar doesn't make me worked up lol, I was just surprised to note just how many powerful stat increases and abilities RDDs get

Maverick00053 wrote:
A pure 18 or 20 DD is pretty strong right now


The majority of that power comes before 13th level which is a relatively low level investment for what you are getting from RDD compared to any other free to play RDD, that's all I was saying.

Maverick00053 wrote:
but it isn't single handily destroying the server.


Very obviously not what I stated or inferred come on play fair. 8)


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 8:13 AM 

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InquisitorBiologos wrote:
I'm personally glad I don't have and don't want an RDD as I do not envy those with a vested interest in policing their fellow players on the minutia of their RP regarding if their RP was within good and evil or chaos and lawful bounds pursuant to what colour dragon disciple they are! :D

This is not the way you should look at this. People don't have a vested interest in policing their fellow players on this. It is a general "look-out" that everyone should have in the back of their mind. If I see a paladin kissing a succubus, I'll probably report that. If I see a druid of Eldath mutilating a bunny for no reason, I'll probably report that. If I see a Shadowdancer using Shadow Jump to jump through a wall, I will probably report that. And if I see a silver dragon disciple with wings and more stabbing puppies and laughing maniacally, I'll probably report that.

It's not about policing everyone's RP. It's about respecting the setting we're in. Reporting something to a DM isn't a sign of callousness. It's not like the DM is going to jump down their throat and insta-ban them the first time the mistake is made. They'll just correct it through informing the player about why that isn't lore-savvy. On an RP server with a high stake in lore in Forgotten Realms, that is essential to smooth sailing. Players come all the time who know nothing about Forgotten Realms and do all sorts of silly things. I did plenty when I first started playing and knew nothing about the lore or setting. Being corrected by DMs didn't drive me away or make me feel like I was being targeted by anyone. The lore is rich and amazing, and it is lore that the DMs simply have to enforce because that's what it means to be in the Forgotten Realms on an RP server. :P

Oh, and the class is not "(ridiculously) overpowered" in my opinion! Both my Dragon Disciples struggle to get low 40 AB and can never hit anything in epic plots - let alone epic bosses or PCs with 55+ AC. That means the strongest variation of the class is a pure STR-based Dev-Critter Fighter/Bard/DD. And the saves on that aren't amazing in the slightest. They have numerous weaknesses! And everything you stated here:

InquisitorBiologos wrote:
Free 80 levels worth of stat increases
Free Greater than epic loot elemental resistance
Free AC worth several armour skin feats
Free high SR


...requires 15-18 levels in the class (except the earlier stat increases, anyway), which limits RP, limits your build to low levels in other classes, prevents any kind of Dragon Disciple/Caster combination that's any good, and (most of all) is not at all "free" as you said above. The stat increases are nice, but they don't make them ridiculously overpowered. And I say that as someone who has played tons of dragon disciples over the years and has been the butt of many jokes because the only thing my characters tend to be good for is looking cool and taking a hit. :P

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 9:33 AM 

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@the original topic:

You have to draw a very clear difference between what those Dragon Disciples actually do, and what (as in your example) just random people claim they saw them doing.

1. They could be lying.
2. They could speak of incidents from years ago.
3. They could just want to mess with you.
4. It could be just some "nonsese tavern talk" aka "last week I shut the gates of hell with a toe-nail and a paperclip".

People can claim IC whatever they want. There is, and should be no rule on that. Now if a Higher Level Dragon Disciple is actually seen 'act' way out of their alignment it should be screenshotted and sent to the DM-Team.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 10:22 AM 



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Just as Puresoul wrote, there always are two aspects of evil, and in many cases, two cases of good.

It's idiotic to walk into Kohlingen, with a Cyricists' symbol, a bloody sword, and then trying to murder peasants. It might be ikn your character to wear a Cyricists' symbol, and he might love murdering peasants, but a person with a brain likely wouldn't do that. Of course, DD is a bit more locked into behaving a certain way, though my personal opinion is that it is not your job to judge. Unless you're a DM, I personally might (depending on whether I'm talkative or not) either talk about my character, or just completely ignore you.

So, if you really think someone is breaking the rules, send a DM a PM.

That said, you physically start changing with the first level.
You actively try to awaken your blood.
You notice (at least on first level, if not earlier, from your lore) what color your ancestor is.
After that, you're still actively trying to awaken your blood more.
Personally, I think (though I don't think this last statement is DM confirmed, the previous ones are) you start mentally changing even before the mental stat upgrades, and you definetely have to have a similar disposition as your ancestor, simply by the need to be within one step of the dragon.


 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 11:11 AM 

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Judged by the times I've had to argue in tells or explain things ICly to people (dragon disciples or not), I believe the rule is not entirely understood -- or people now assume that if they see a dragon disciple it doesn't always have to act like their dragon heritage does. The reason could be that, well, we are not dm, and we cannot always know if a character is 10+ into a class.

That is why I suggested that perhaps the rule could be adapted so that "the moment a dragonkin has wings, that character should be a far passed the point of them being able to resist the instinct / personality of the dragon they are emulating. They have fully embraced their heritage, both in mind and body." This would give a clear visual indicator to players, and makes this much easier to remember for those who don't care as much about knowing how the rule work exactly -- if they see wings, they expect that character's persona to be close to the dragon of their heritage.

There are two ways this can be achieved

1 ) Either the rule of 10+ be changed to 9

2 ) Make it so that the wings will appear at level 10+


@Robi:

Yes, you start changing the moment you get 1 level into the class even. Which is why when I hear dragon disciples in game say that X dragon disciple with wings doesn't have to be evil / good and that it's their choice and can still act heroically / like a villain if they wish to, I get very, very, very irked.

@Amarice:

What people say and do are two things, yes. But when you get confirmation in PMs afterward that they think what they said ICly is possible because of the rule, that's another. The rule is misinterpreted as "Well, they can stray from their usual alignments" by many it seems.

My point here isn't to go on a witch hunt and denonciate other players for things they say or do - I just want the rule to be made clearer / tighter so that there is no misunderstanding when it comes to a character who invested heavily on their dragon ancestry (and I think the wings point would be a good visual indicator of that, whether we make it so that you only get wings when the rule applies to you or make it so that the level break point is lower than it is now).

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 11:53 AM 



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I don't know the situation the discussion has sparked from, but there's still a few counterpoints as well:

First off, if you're not a DM and don't have the info, you can choose to do one of three things:
1. Disrupt RP with a tell informing them that you disagree with their style of RP. (Which I personally strongly disagree with, but you can do that, pretty much)
2. Take the risk, screenshot and send to a DM. (If you're wrong, it's not like you'll be banned on first offense. If you always report people wrongly, yes, but a few misses in the dark won't kill anyone)
3. Ignore it. (Of course, if you see this from the same person a lot, step 2 might be better; first time on a new player, step 1 might be better; sometimes step 3 is best)

Secondly, while you do change, you still are mostly human. Even 20 RDD is not a half-dragon. You've awakened a lot of your heritage, but you're not a half-dragon, let alone a full dragon. Humans (or insert any other race here) do have their original tendencies. The example I think of most easily is anger. I remember reading about a Paladins. Paladins don't autofall for throwing some punches at someone who offended them. If they do so often, yes. If they punch someone to deathj, yes. But a single instance of anger is human, and will not autofall someone.
I'd see it the same with DDs. You're not OOC for getting mad at somebody who is constantly teasing you and poking you with a knife. Dragons also are intrinsically greedy. Even metallics. They are good, yes, but they might accept a bribe for allowing somebody to build a house earlier, and skip some of the bureacracy, as long as it harms nobody.
Blue dragons have a pretty strong parenting, which usually is more of a 'good' characteristic.


There is so much behind a character that players won't see. There's so much behind a character that even DMs might not see. DMs have the right to question a character. You as a player don't. I do think players should play their dragon fittingly for a dragon of that type, but I really don't know what is behind peoples' characters.

Also, by your suggested ruling, a 9 DD has exactly the same mindset as a 20 DD, which isn't really how it works, I don't think. There still are changes, both physical and mental in the steps after getting wings (which not all DDs get).


 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 13:49 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
I don't know the situation the discussion has sparked from, but there's still a few counterpoints as well: (Situations are numerous, the latest were comments (IC and OOC) about how winged chromatic dragonkins can fight against their evil tendencies and succeed at it and that we have to give them a chance (said by metallic dragonkins and non dragon disciple characters alike)

First off, if you're not a DM and don't have the info, you can choose to do one of three things:
1. Disrupt RP with a tell informing them that you disagree with their style of RP. (Which I personally strongly disagree with, but you can do that, pretty much) (Done that on occasions, to make sure the players know what their characters say is wrong (being wrong IC is perfectly acceptable! However, saying something ICly that is wrong when your character should know that it is wrong, because of misinterpreting a rule isn't as acceptable)

2. Take the risk, screenshot and send to a DM. (If you're wrong, it's not like you'll be banned on first offense. If you always report people wrongly, yes, but a few misses in the dark won't kill anyone)
3. Ignore it. (Of course, if you see this from the same person a lot, step 2 might be better; first time on a new player, step 1 might be better; sometimes step 3 is best) (That's a solution, but that's also kinda asshole-ish I think :D Just talking to them (either ooc or ic, I've done both in the previous cases) usually solves a lot. I'm suggesting this here so that it prevents some players from being wrong to begin with though! :))

Secondly, while you do change, you still are mostly human. Even 20 RDD is not a half-dragon. You've awakened a lot of your heritage, but you're not a half-dragon, let alone a full dragon. Humans (or insert any other race here) do have their original tendencies. The example I think of most easily is anger. I remember reading about a Paladins. Paladins don't autofall for throwing some punches at someone who offended them. If they do so often, yes. If they punch someone to deathj, yes. But a single instance of anger is human, and will not autofall someone.

I'd see it the same with DDs. You're not OOC for getting mad at somebody who is constantly teasing you and poking you with a knife. Dragons also are intrinsically greedy. Even metallics. They are good, yes, but they might accept a bribe for allowing somebody to build a house earlier, and skip some of the bureacracy, as long as it harms nobody.

Blue dragons have a pretty strong parenting, which usually is more of a 'good' characteristic.

(Yeah no, Dragon Disciples and Paladins aren't playing on the same fields at all. A paladin of Lathander CAN snap and go mass baby genocide - it will most probably make them fall afterward though. However, a Dragon Disciple who's far gone the path of his dragon ancestry is not going to do something that the dragon it is emulating would ever do. It changes them to the core, they aren't the same character. A mass completely chaotic evil murderer who kills without motive and without planning finding out he has dragon blood within him/her, goes the dragon disciple path and becomes a Silver Dragonkin will become someone who wishes to protect others and who is calculating. THey will remember what they did, but will -never- recognize their behavior as their own and hate their past profundly for it. Their alignment will change drastically and they don't have to be "pure dragons" or "half dragons" either - it just overtake them completely.)

There is so much behind a character that players won't see. There's so much behind a character that even DMs might not see. DMs have the right to question a character. You as a player don't. I do think players should play their dragon fittingly for a dragon of that type, but I really don't know what is behind peoples' characters. (Actually yes, we have the right to question others. And it should be encouraged, if players take the time to ask legitimate questions. From the questions I asked, or events I have been in, I concluded that the rule here is misinterpreted or unknown by many - and that is very good knowledge to have if we have the experience on the server to be improved. Dragon disciples is a prestige class for a reason, even more so here on Amia)


Also, by your suggested ruling, a 9 DD has exactly the same mindset as a 20 DD, which isn't really how it works, I don't think. There still are changes, both physical and mental in the steps after getting wings (which not all DDs get).(The current rule has it at level 10 instead of 9. The only thing my suggestion would do is that it would give a visual cue to players that X winged character has reached the "point of no-return". You aren't the person who started this dragon disciple path anymore, you aren't in the driver seat either at that point. What you do now is always "tainted" by whichever dragon heritage you have awakened, the blood and power you sought to gain going that path has reached the point where it has taken over. The difference between a lvl 20 DD and a lvl 11 by now is how they perceive themselves to other humans, or how incredibly automatic their responses are to stimulis, or how much erased their past persona is to their current one. There should be very little traces of the initial character left in a lvl 11 DD character, and even less (none) when they reach 20 in the class)

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Raua
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 16:27 PM 

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Seriously?

Again with this shit? >.>

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ZoltanTheRed
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 16:37 PM 

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Raua wrote:
Seriously?

Again with this shit? >.>


 
      
DaToastGhost
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 17:14 PM 

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ZoltanTheRed wrote:
Raua wrote:
Seriously?

Again with this shit? >.>

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Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 17:17 PM 

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Why does this need changing? The rules are very clear on how it works..

1-10 - 1 step out of alignment from your draconic ancestor.. if it's a chaotic evil one, you can be chaotic evil, chaotic neutral or neutral evil..

11-20 - 1 step on the same good/neutral/evil axis.. so you can be chaotic evil or neutral evil..

And here's the kicker, it actually makes sense because taking level 11 means you're now an EPIC Dragon disciple, and it's even there in the description. "Embracing his draconic heritage is but one stop on the disciple's life journey. His quest to understand and harness his draconic energies has taken him into the realm of the epic." Further advancing down that path has made it so that your body and personality changes even more to mirror that of the ancestor. Advancing a class into the epic, be it 21 of a base class of 11 of a prestige class is supposed to be something that defines your character to some extent.

I really don't see why any of this needs changing at all? Policing how people RP is up to the DMs and not the players. If you see an evil character do acts that are "good" that doesn't mean they're not evil but that they're probably not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. If you're not sure if the Dragon disciple char you think is acting "out of character" for their class or heritage, simply ask them how many levels of DD they have.. If they don't want to answer, that's fine too.. because again.. not a players job to police RP. I see plenty of RP that I wouldn't define as proper in terms of lore, setting or whatever.. but I let it slide and don't comment on it, because it's not my job to police other people's roleplaying. IF I feel it's bad enough to warrant a DM looking at it, I'd report it to a DM, be it a dragon disciple or any other class or race or whatever.

So I'll reiterate: I really don't see why any of this needs changing at all. The rules are there and fairly clear and simple to understand. With a reason posted as to why the change was made as well.
Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
At this point you simply are getting so close to your dragon heritage, in mind and appearance, that as a metallic being not good or a chromatic being not evil, is not reasonably possible.

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yimmi
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 18:28 PM 

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DaToastGhost wrote:
ZoltanTheRed wrote:
Raua wrote:
Seriously?

Again with this shit? >.>

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 23:20 PM 

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Raua wrote:
Seriously?

Again with this shit? >.>


+1


Also- Can we stop being ridiculous and realize that not all evil has to be blatantly out in the open eating babies?

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Solvaras
 
PostPosted: Tue, Oct 24 2017, 23:35 PM 

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PassionateShadow wrote:
Raua wrote:
Seriously?

Again with this shit? >.>


+1


Also- Can we stop being ridiculous and realize that not all evil has to be blatantly out in the open eating babies?


Well, tell the babies to stop being so delicious.............


 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 0:42 AM 

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It's more a problem of people not reading what I wrote than me claiming all evil should eat babies or that I am against that ruling.

My point is that some players mistake / misunderstand that ruling and thus make stupid affirmations that a red dragonkin / black dragonkin could be a good samaritan if they wanted hard enough or that a metallic dragonkin could be far worse than a metallic. There is no free will when it comes to dragon disciples passed a certain point, they just emulate what their dragon heritage is associated with. However, that bit of lore, people ICly go and claim does not exist. I'm fine with ignorant characters, but when what is said is not intended as wrong because the player behind the screen read the rule quickly and their conclusion after reading quickly was "You don't necessarily have to be of the alignment of the dragon" and thus assume that there is a lot of leyway and control in what dragon disciples can do / say unless they go passed the magic level 11.


Also, to all the "again with this shit?", to my knowledge, that suggestion's not been brought up. In fact, the "shit" that was said in that previous dragon thread was that people were angry at the ruling -- I am the absolute opposite. I want it to have a clear instinctive visual cue for everyone to know -> when they see a DD with wings, no matter the color, these characters are the "point of no return".

To those who can't read and post anyway, my suggestions are:

- Either make it so that level 9 you are at the current 11+ of the current ruling
- Or RDD now grow wings at lvl 11+ (at the same time they must be the alignment of their chosen dragon heritage)


So far I have read no actual counter argument to this suggestion, aside from saying that "it is logical to be at lvl 11+ because you become epic" but that would still happen with my second option, so it isn't exactly working against what I'm suggesting..

I am of the opinion that you shouldn't need a dm to know if a dragon disciple is a dragon disciple, in mind and body. Making it so that that ruling (which I agree with 100% by the way) has a clear IC visual cue for players to know only brings positive and helps clearing possible confusion from some players.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 1:15 AM 

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What I think you don't understand is that evil chromatic can use guile and behave one way in front of others and put on an act and show but be completely different else wise.


If you or you character fall prey for their ploys well... that sounds like a personal problem. Then they tricked you well.

Chromatic will try to trick you in to thinking they are not all bad or all that bad. some times they may be getting incentive not to stab you in the face by being paid to 'act nice' and build up a 'good rep' when in truth they are actually planning to stab you in the back when you least expect it making you weak and vulnerable.


Aslo you're forum prescience of insulting people is not appreciated; so If I were you I wouldn't expect civil replies if I kept calling people stupid and saying they cant read simple English.


This is a topic that's been beaten to death like a dead horse. The fact that it's been brought up yet again gives people an unsettled sensation as it's already been discussed many times over. If you have problem with some ones role play just report it. We already have a system in place. There is absolutely no need to reinvent the wheel the rules are there and they are quite clear.

The dms will investigate if they are playing their role true or not. They may even ask the players the characters intent with X actions.

Evil pcs need not act evil 100% of the time. they are perfectly fine with being allowed to rp to trick other pcs in to believing them. If you know what color they are you should know what they 'really are' That's it.


Creating long discussions for the sake of complaining about others rp doesn't do anything but make people aggravated that there is yet another thred on this topic that's been done to death. No one's interested in rehashing this -AGAIN-.

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rafaelmacgyver
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 13:04 PM 

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Correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know The Official Lore For Dragon Disciple PRC is still in effect.

Also. People know how verbal I was for like years about some issues with the Lore and all.

Sure. Evil ones do not need to be "DESTROY BURN PURGE KILL BLOODFORTHEBLOODGOD" all the time, they can trick and manipulate.

The level of Camaraderie I see a Metallic having with a Chromatic like they are brothers in arms and hugging each other is the real reason that bothers me.

I agree that like the 1st and 2nd Rituals could be said it was somewhat like "accidental". But going 9 Levels and growing huge wings then keeping with the "accidental talk" in a way that is clearly not a ruse or trying to manipulate and saying it like its actually -how- it works is another thing that bothers me a lot.

The above link could be expanded and improved with more words on how things would actually work so mistakes and yet another thread like this could be avoided.

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Maverick00053
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 13:14 PM 

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Rituals are never accidental. You must take the willing step yourself.

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rafaelmacgyver
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 13:28 PM 

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Maverick00053 wrote:
Rituals are never accidental. You must take the willing step yourself.


I know one most know about it and most be willing to do it.

But since a lot of people does not read that Lore and there is -always- someone about saying it in a way it is the -actual- way of things working, that I just let it go on how people talk about how the first ones happen and do not argue much on that specific detail anymore.

Again. The Lore thread could be expanded with more information, and I would also say, it is something that people should be encouraged to take at least a brief reading before making a character with the class.

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sword dream
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 19:12 PM 

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rafaelmacgyver wrote:
The level of Camaraderie I see a Metallic having with a Chromatic like they are brothers in arms and hugging each other is the real reason that bothers me.


unless you are a kobold. because kobolds are special.

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rafaelmacgyver
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 20:22 PM 

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sword dream wrote:
unless you are a kobold. because kobolds are special.


No they aren't.

The "not liking each other thing" goes to -all- the races that does the Rituals. Humans, Kobolds, Goblins, Orcs, Mind Flayers, Gelatinous Cubes, Whatever.

No one is special in regards of that.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 21:13 PM 

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Homebrew VS Offical

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sword dream
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 21:19 PM 

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*grabs some popcorn and waits for the kobold civil war*

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rafaelmacgyver
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 22:31 PM 

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PassionateShadow wrote:
Homebrew VS Offical


If the Server have a specific Homebrew Lore that goes against what -ANY- Book says, Then it is -THAT- Lore that should be used.

A weird exemple:
If a Server have a Specific Lore that says Lathander is The God of The Moon and Selune is the Goddess of Sun. Then that is it. That is how things are on that specific Gameworld.
The Homebrew specific Lore of a Server is priority over whatever any books says, as long any changes are very well put and explained. Some may like it, some may not like it.
Well that's a very weird extreme exemple but that is it.

That's why, again, I insist that the specific Official Lore Thread on Amia for Dragon Disciples get expanded with more and more detailing.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 22:37 PM 

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It shouldn't be called Official Lore as it's the Server Lore. That will confuse people.

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Jes
 
PostPosted: Wed, Oct 25 2017, 23:25 PM 

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Let's not go back and forth on semantics, guys. :?

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