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Chrissyangel
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 28 2018, 8:28 AM 

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Joined: 19 May 2010

So much talked about here that i want to kinda give my take on.

I have been able to participate in a few different of the larger events, albeit older ones, on the server.

During the demon summoning cultists in Caraigh event i decided to get my barbarian character involved to try to help. The very first day of joining in the defense, one of the players who was apparently "leader" of the defense force walked into camp, insulted my character, and threatened to have her hung for something she wasn't involved in out of no where. She chose to leave the camp instead of sticking around and having people try to hang her and it pretty much excluded me from an event i feel would have been otherwise fun.

Another event i decided to try to get my cleric of Savras involved so maybe she could take part in more of the thinky bits. Do some research, offer some suggestions. However another more "all-star" caster was involved in the event. I was pretty much ignored for the entirety of the event as was pretty much anyone outside of the "all-star group" and it honestly felt pretty sucky to feel more like you're watching others get to have fun an enjoy an event.

In the final event I'll bring up, i did get to show up with my barbarian during a water cultist event at minmir bridge and fight a kraken. It was a lot of fun.


So the point of all this:
Big events can quickly become a matter of Certain people being the spotlight characters while everyone else is yapping for scraps. I think one of the key things to running a big event in such a way that doesn't leave people feeling excluded is to ensure during the progressing plotline have lots of small events with opportunities for a bunch of different characters and parties to participate and experience character growth. Save the mass group parts for any big fighting scenes

Some of these problems aren't purely a DM issue either. Some of them are about player interaction, or lack there of. Now, i'm not saying you have to play nice with a necromancer if you are a paladin. But if you are part of an event, especially if you are a spotlight character, and you see someone else who's trying to contribute. Include them, Are they researching something similar to you? Compare notes! Are you the research type and they are more the muscly type? Have them be your escort to chase down a lead even if it leads no where. This makes for a more positive experience all around.

Beyond this, i know someone mentioned having a small dm event going on and having suddenly a flood of level 30's rushing in and hijacking the event. Personally, i see this as absolutely unacceptable behavior. I can understand that events can be extremely rare and everyone wants to be a part of it when it comes up, but metagaming your way into an event that doesn't involve you only hurts everyone's experience and is disrespectful to other roleplayers and the dm running the event.


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 28 2018, 10:14 AM 

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Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

I think, rather, that it is absolutely unacceptable behavior to treat other people showing up to an event as unwelcome hijackers. If a DM runs an event for lower-level characters and gets a bunch of level 30's by accident, you just have to roll with it. It isn't the players' event, or else there wouldn't have been a Shout. Shouts are there to inform others that something is going on somewhere. If the DM absolutely didn't want people to show up, they would have waited to broadcast that something happened/is happening. (And if there wasn't a shout and people just showed up, then someone obviously wanted them there or it was a genuine accident.)

Some people have a huge Us vs. Them mentality that has always hurt our server to some degree. Getting excited about a Shouted DM event and coming up with an IC reason for their character to be going that way (in the same pseudo-metagamey way people regroup with previous hunting groups, which is perfectly fine) should not suddenly make them look disrespectful. I guarantee they just wanted to join in with fellow players and have fun with members of this community. And if they did just go around and bulldoze people in a rude and hurtful way, then the DM would be well aware of this and would handle the situation. But I suspect the only people upset by more experienced characters showing up are the ones who don't really want to share to begin with. Which is okay until you start making people feel bad for wanting to play with you.

At no point should genuine in-character interaction label someone as disrespectful. The many times I was labeled an "All-Star" made me actively avoid DM events because of the treatment that label suddenly authorizes. Was that fun for me? No. Was it just as metagamey to stay away from things my character would be worried about? Yes. It was unfulfilling and lonely. I encourage everyone to be welcoming to everyone, rather than see people who have played here for a long time and have higher-level characters who just want to join in as some kind of enemy out to steal their precious RP.

There have been times that I have also been frustrated about huge DM plots that focus on one PC. Hell, I have been actively ignored by a DM in the past during a string of events, and that made me feel like it was purely because I wasn't x character. So I understand that it is easy to feel that way, but I think the DMs need a bit more credit. Barring my one poor experience (pretty good for almost 12 years!), usually when that sort of thing has inadvertently happened, the DM has always been open to outside players. They respond to people reaching out with their ideas/actions; it's part of the job!

Personally, I like to do a more open "Hey, stuff's happening in an hour" on Discord or in Tells when I know something fun might be going down. The more the merrier, I say.

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SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 28 2018, 12:36 PM 

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Joined: 31 Mar 2014

With a smaller overall sever population these days, I actually find that people are a lot more willing to include others in different events that happen. And I often see the DMs trying to interact with a lot of people over several time zones, areas, so on and so forth. While it can sometimes seem discouraging to see a DM focusing on one group / faction / person more-so than anyone else - or so it may seem - there are often a lot of ways to get yourself involved. Talking to DMs directly, messaging people, poking around when you see a larger server count and a DM or two online. If it still remains a problem that makes you uncomfortable, more often than not the solution that will bring any sort of conclusion or satisfaction will be bringing up your complaints with a DM. They above anyone can provide you with a perspective that can see from all angles, levels, and sides. Sometimes things are just not what they appear, to us who can't see everything that's happening all the time.

As for people "hijacking" events, I don't really think there's anything wrong with people joining in on stuff as long as it wasn't meant to be secretive for a good reason in the first place. Especially if there is a player who is taking lead / responsibility for the event and they don't take issue with it. It opens up even more RP for characters to find reasons to worm their way into things and find out what's going on. Everyone just wants to have a bit of fun and interaction. And like I said earlier, I've felt recently that most people have been leaning on this line of reasoning to try and include more players in larger public events.

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 28 2018, 14:25 PM 

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Joined: 20 Jan 2006

Things can go both ways.

I have seen charas "steal" the show, but I have just as many times, if not twice as often, seen charas abandon plots because they got bored and rather stand around and chit chat, or hunt and let the "old folk" clean up the rest because they got "better things to do".

I cannot count anymore how often people have reported stuff to Malandria and just expected her to clean up the mess and they to not lift a finger.

So both can apply and that old charas always "steal the show" is not true. On contrary a lot of time people just expect them to deal with shit when noone else is in the mood to because it has gotten complicated or more time consuming than they wanted it to be. Seeing some, not all naturally, grow tired of plots if it involves more time investing than 1-2 sessions.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 28 2018, 18:11 PM 



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Joined: 13 Feb 2008

The term "hijacking" is an existing term though when it comes to events and I have seen the vast majority of the server complaining about it. Things like that happen on this server all the time but it is not unique to Amia usually.

Of course people more interaction is good and people have the right to join in stuff that their character would know of ICly. The major issue is not that but the method and the aggressive behavior where the "hijacking" feeling might appear for other people. Mind that it may not be done in bad faith, but still some people might think that or feel like that.

By "hijacking" most people usually meant:

One or more character shows up randomly and attempting to suppress everyone else who were already part of the event with the following ways:
- because they have greater experience with events in general (not the character but the player) and as such they provide a more oily response to it,
- by the simple fact that they can type faster than others and they spam the chatlog.
- they do not let others to respond or they simply ignore them. Now that can be done via bad faith or by the simple fact that they cannot multitask and they become oblivious to other texts while typing.

The behavior that folks generally consider hijacking goes against the main rules under the roleplaying etiquette section:

PaladinOfSune wrote:
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Never assume someone will react in a certain way just because you think they should. Always give others the chance to react in their own way, and don’t get upset if the reaction isn’t what you expected.


Be considerate of the role-playing mood of others. If you come into a situation where other characters are already engaged in some RP, don’t just leap in with a radically different mood unless you get permission (Either IC or OOC, depending on the situation and whether you have any way to contact them OOC). As an example: say there is a couple sitting at a table discussing a recently deceased character and you jump in acting like a court jester and spill their drinks in their laps while telling bad jokes. You aren’t going to make friends like this if your actions offend the players behind the characters. This is not a rule, it's common courtesy.

Don’t try to be the center of attention all the time. Be polite and share attention with other characters. You aren’t the only one there to have fun, give everyone their turn in the spotlight.

Give others time to react to you. One of the strangest things in graphical online RPGs is impatience. People will walk up, say something, wait about 0.0001 seconds and run off. The person they talked to would barely have had enough time to read what they said, let alone respond to it. This also happens in conversations. People will say something, wait a very short amount of time, then keep going as if they think the person they were talking to didn’t hear them or isn’t going to respond. In most cases, the other person was going to respond but simply wasn’t as fast as expected, and loses the chance because the conversation has moved on without them. There’s no need to hurry so much, just relax and enjoy the interaction.

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LeathanKayne
 
PostPosted: Sun, Jan 28 2018, 19:45 PM 

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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada

I've had people spontaneously show up in my events that had no way of knowing to be there. While I'm not always opposed to this, there are sometimes it's so out of the realm of possibility I'll say no. I try not to exclude people from my events, but when it means breaking immersion (which a LOT of people hate), I'll say no.

Sometimes this is simply because the event is happening out in a remote area no where near a normal path and had no wide reaching effect that notified half the isle of what was happening.

One thing I've had happen before is a player was on a character that wasn't as compatible for the event, so they changed characters and joined up again (even though the new character wouldn't have any knowledge of it). That happened once without my saying so, but it was near a public enough area I let it slide. When people have asked though, I usually say no. Like hopping on their rogue to disable traps my cultists have laid because they have no rogue on the team, and yet we're already half-way down into a cave. I don't blame players for thinking this, especially with how frustrating my cultists were xD. One side reason I said no too is that's just luck, bad luck, which was what my cultists were all about. Tons of traps and it's the one time you have no rogue? Bad luck! :3

Anyways, the biggest thing I like to do with games is have immersion. It lets me connect with my character better and the world around them. It lets me dive deep into the story and empathize. So I mainly consider, will this break immersion or not? A couple random people showing up is usually no on that front, but sudden heavy reinforcements or a sudden expert in the field out of no where in a remote location is pretty wild.

There are several legitimate ways characters can find events.
- Shouts, isle wide signals that something is happening somewhere.
- Messages left behind, like a knight letting the city guard know they're going out on patrol or a mission somewhere.
- A Sending (WITH DM PERMISSION) and usually the ten(ish) minute casting that goes with it.
- Reasonable suspicion to investigate an area.
- Reasonable scouting around if the event is out in the open and near a heavily trafficked road (such as between Cordor to Dale to Kampos to Kohlingen or Dale to Guldorand).

I usually like my initial events to be public. However, often one faction or group pick up the event and start pursuing it. I give tons of chances for others to find their way into an event if possible. I'll give an example:
My Black Axe mercenaries have been all over the place, they've done some very public things, and news has spread across the entire isle about them. As such, anyone can get involved - If they want to. I've put a lot of effort into my mercs showing up just about everywhere, giving others a chance to pursue them or try and figure something out and join in. Thus far though, mainly Kohlingen associated peeps and a few guests have done anything about them, and thus it becomes their event. The possibility exists to join in still, but as time goes on, more and more is done with less public knowledge by the group that pursues it, unless they spread that knowledge around. (And sometimes you have to do things secretly!)

Biggest thing is.. be respectful of your fellow players and when in doubt, ask the DM.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 29 2018, 2:08 AM 

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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom

How does one get involved? Just as a pointer, i'm curious to know. :mrgreen:

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Richard_Edmund
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 29 2018, 10:12 AM 

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Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)

Ask involed factions, PM the DM with whatever personal investigation you or your own group might be doing and make sure to keep pestering the DM about it. Small, individual efforts are sometimes forgotten or overlooked sadly.

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LordAzack
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 29 2018, 17:58 PM 

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Joined: 11 Nov 2007

And remember... DM's inboxes fill rather quickly and your PM may be missed.. A gentle reminder every so often may help.

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LeathanKayne
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jan 29 2018, 22:21 PM 

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Joined: 03 Apr 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada

We try to keep our Inboxes sorted so we can always receive messages, and (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone) if they're full you should (I think) receive a message that your message couldn't be delivered.

And I do encourage individual efforts, though I will say that the groups usually take priority, so if I'm busy with the group I probably won't be able to come to you. If I'm not however and have time, I don't mind a little one on one with whatever's going on. Do feel free to send me a message in DM channel, and if I'm not completely occupied with what's going on (which does happen on events with several players), I'll try to reply to you.

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