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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 7:16 AM 

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Just my Drunk thoughts...

We need a common thread, a goal to bring all PC's involved in some small way to one Rp hub. A Base set up were all alignments can enter act without the threat of going after each other because there is a bigger threat. Each side in trenches dug in at a standstill. Battle fronts were we can fight, low lvl hunting zone, mid, and high. But we can not breach there ranks far enough to do damage. For Hades Sake, bring out the Big Guns and let's get some Gods involved. All hands on deck and focus on one story line. The size of our player base, and the size of the Mod, were spread to thin. We need a Rp plot that will make us all cross paths and interact. At stake, all of Amia. I would recommend the story line go for one year. Known month were the climax will happen, but ripples will change Amia.

I want to see what others thoughts were and if this garnered any traction. If Dm's and players would be interested in something like this happening i'll privately submit an idea. I have a frame of a idea that i think would be awesome. Just don't want to spill the beans. Maybe others would have a better story lines and we could submit them. Or Dm's take all we submit and come up with there own or connecting plots. :D

I just think we need a platform that makes us all come together. At one place and deal with a common enemy.

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DolphinRacer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 8:49 AM 

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I'm not entirely opposed to this idea. In general I think more DM events even if the aren't part of a cohesive plot is a better idea because even when I find people to RP with so little is going on IG that the conversations are almost literally like a pre-recorded loop.

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 10:09 AM 

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Started one. Noone looked into it. :P

I may pick it up again, if there is serious interest. Some months ago, noone was interested.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 13:31 PM 

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1 - Hard to get everyone together when some characters should -never- interact with some characters. Palemaster / evil necromancer with paladins, chromatics with metallic, etc.

So, from the get go, if we had a big major plot that "involves everyone", some characters interacting with these opposed characters would have deep repercussions on them (paladins on them). If they roleplay their characters right, that means they need to be set aside or isolated to properly function...

2 - I personally think that big massive events are boring and uninteresting. No matter how much work is put behind big massive events, they never seem to appeal to me.. and it's not a strike on the people who spend hours to prepare them, it's just the nature of these events makes them impersonal.

To me, a tiny almost personal event with 2-3 players is far more interesting and will make my characters grow / change / evolve so much more than some "We have to save the world from Bearded Joe the evil demi-god! Let's put all of our differences aside, let's become friends with people that are far worse than Bearded Joe, and let's fight the overpowered NPC that will summon even more overpowered waves of imbalanced mobs!"

Small events allow the players to roleplay and have their actions / reactions have impact on how the event goes. Big massive events makes the "all-star characters" do everything. No matter how creative or cool your ideas are, it's going to be the big recognized names that will decide everything - and most likely the casters (because Jim the barbarian will only serve to fight the mindless mobs in the end, he's not going to take part in the Holy Ritual that casts Bearded Joe to another dimension, cure his curse, stop his minions from reviving and so on. Jim will slam shit up until Omega Margerie the caster finishes her awesome spell).

Here's an example of how the last big event I was semi-involved in ended up going in meetings (with a conclusion that could have happened):

Problem - We need to stop cultists.
Goal - We know where they are, we need to take them down, (they are in a cave) but they could have hostages.
Adopted meeting solution - Druids of the grove will shapechange into tiny animals / or bugs to spy on the enemy and see if they have hostages. Grove druids will report back to the rest. Possible way of fighting the cultists could then involve casting earthquakes to cave in all of the cultists at once.


Sooooo... yeah... my personal preference - DMs, if you're looking into spending time preparing big massive events, try and think of small tiny near personal and MEANINGFUL events instead one massive event.. That's what progresses characters stories in my opinion.

Additional read: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=89440&p=1442099&hilit=Lavim#p1442099

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Last edited by Mushidoz on Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:09 PM 

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I'm with mushidoz here...

I've seen some of the BIG Events and... really all I did was stand aside and watch others do stuff. Sometimes you throw stuff in and it just gets washed out of the chat by the massive influx of people *shrug*

Theres a reason nobody DM's a PnP group with 15 Players, imo.

Don't know, probably the problem is on my end but I think small events with a small amount of people are just far, far more enjoyable...

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:25 PM 



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I like smaller events too than big ones, its much more involving for everyone.

Bigger events are okay, atleast big fights. But too big can cause lag easily on NWN engine.

In bigger events, there has to be a clear focus on what the group's objectives are and who is leading.

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Raua
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:27 PM 

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I like any events.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:32 PM 

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Raua wrote:
I like any events.


Have to agree here, any event I can be involved in is fine by me really at this point!

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:43 PM 

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I really enjoyed when we the had the She-kat invasion a few years back. It was a place you could go, set up camp on the battle fronts and it was a chance to rp with people you most likely never would. If there was a threat that not only was to Amia itself, but Tarkuul as well, there could be forged an uneasy alliance. When i log on it seems folks are spread thin and rp is mundane when you do get a chance to interact with others. A common goal and common enemy would be a nice change of pace. With multiple Dm's working on the same Event, i think it would work out fine. *Shrugs* Just my opinion.

Amarice-Elaraliel, could you please make a link to what you were referring to? I'd like to check it out.

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 14:58 PM 



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I was actually one of the "leading" pcs in the shekat invasion thing. It was fun mostly for the camp roleplay because people had a spot to where to go find rp and become involved in the plot and not having to camp for the "event dm".

It is silly to expect good and evil to work together though. Sure, they will fight against the "big bad evil" but any help they receive from each other will be indirect at most and only neutral aligned pcs who do not have gods or ethics watching them will be able to interact with "everyone".

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 15:05 PM 



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Also, before people jump the gun..

We are all talking about just what we have enjoyed the most concerning event types, but that doesn't mean we will not get involved in a small, big or any event if they seem interesting to us. Or that DMs should stop doing big events. But just that some of us simply enjoy smaller events, which doesn't mean we don't appreciate the effort of dms being able to coordinate large events, which is very respectable.

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 15:14 PM 

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T0mc4t89 wrote:
I was actually one of the "leading" pcs in the shekat invasion thing. It was fun mostly for the camp roleplay because people had a spot to where to go find rp and become involved in the plot and not having to camp for the "event dm".

It is silly to expect good and evil to work together though. Sure, they will fight against the "big bad evil" but any help they receive from each other will be indirect at most and only neutral aligned pcs who do not have gods or ethics watching them will be able to interact with "everyone".


I have an idea for an Event that i think is viable to have to make good and evil Toons align and have to work with each other. An uneasy alliance, but one all the same. Once the major threat is dealt with they can go back to there normal programming. :)

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 15:19 PM 



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Impknightofireland wrote:
I have an idea for an Event that i think is viable to have to make good and evil Toons align and have to work with each other. An uneasy alliance, but one all the same. Once the major threat is dealt with they can go back to there normal programming. :)


How? The moment the gods see that their servants are knowingly associating with the "wrong" people, they will get pissed.

Sure, they will fight against the "big bad evil". But to expect there to not be conflict between them just sounds like you are trying to force things.

That also doesn't mean that there being conflict within a larger conflict is necessarily a bad thing.

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 15:25 PM 

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As i said before, i don't want to spill the beans. :)

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 15:46 PM 

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That also doesn't mean that there being conflict within a larger conflict is necessarily a bad thing.

Indeed. :D

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 15:51 PM 



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Well, large-scale events have a few pretty nice things, in my opinion:
First off, they do stuff. It's stuff to talk about, even without a DM having to be online, it affects a lot more PCs than a small story with three characters in it, and it includes a far wider variety of people. Yeah, maybe the rotting Pale Master whose face is half-decayed isn't allowed in them, but a lot of more questionable characters are accepted, like, maybe a chromatic who can behave himself, or even some outright evil characters, who aren't evil for just 'Necromancy', 'summoning demons' or 'openly worships Cyric'. Hell, those characters even get a chance to... be evil in those events without the player immediately flamed at for being a 'PvP whore'. PCs can work together for a multitude of reasons, and anything that provides an enemy can be the catalyst of that. That's one of the reason I liked the Guild back when it did more events. It united characters, even when they normally wouldn't work together. That said, there were quite a few evil people in those events, and I only saw very few cases where people even mentioned a dislike for each other, and nobody got fallen, as far as I know. Hell, there was an ogre mercenary, a few chromatics, and Gerald Edmund, who I'm pretty sure was, at the time, pretty openly affiliated with Tarkuul, and nobody really minded all too much.

And all that was in Guild events. Anything larger probably would unite even more people. They wouldn't have to like each other, but you don't have to like someone to work alongside them.

Personal events, on the other hand, actively do that. You don't need to work together with anyone outside your little group. I don't see it as a bad thing, but it is an event for a very small minority of the server, and then people complain about how certain playstyles dilute DM attention, but then want DM attention diluted in their own favor.


That said, the only time I experienced anything close to a 'personal, small DM event' was a time where I was with, I think two other players, only us three on the server, and then, halfway into the event, ten people (all level 30, where we were still under level 10) suddenly pop in out of nowhere and basically abduct the whole event. So take my opinion about smaller scale events witha grain of salt.


 
      
Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:06 PM 

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robbi320
That said, the only time I experienced anything close to a 'personal, small DM event' was a time where I was with, I think two other players, only us three on the server, and then, halfway into the event, ten people (all level 30, where we were still under level 10) suddenly pop in out of nowhere and basically abduct the whole event. So take my opinion about smaller scale events witha grain of salt.

What i want to propose to the Dm Team would involve battle front lines, that need to be held on different fronts. A zone for high, mid and low lvls that that you can try and breach and be able to battle the enemy. Even when there is no Dm on. That way all lvl spreads would be able to contribute towards the over all Event (Gain lvls) and make a difference. Dm's would also be able to run mini events towards the over all goal and include lvl specific events.

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:07 PM 



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Just because there is a small event doesn't mean that it is only for those "allstar" pcs.

Hell some 3-4 adventurers in Bendir happened to be about when the gingerbread man went on a rampage again (was an old event).

And yeah, big events do BIG things. We haven't been denying that. It is just that it is hard to be involved when there is a group of 10 adventurers basically roflstomping everything on the way and that there is always someone with the highest x skill who will solve the DMs puzzle so we can continue roflstomping.

I think its neat that there is conflict in party creation, but you also have to understand that large events open to all will not work for people who care more about the general ethics and having the gods watching what they do. Hence why they should have other stuff in which they feel they can do stuff, maybe their own campaign or even helping in another way. Perhaps making their own attack a bit later against the big bad. Or taking over leadership of the larger group and saying that "we are going to do things this way" if they have the might to back it up.

We shouldn't stubbornly try to make people work together because that can break characters for some. Conflict rp within larger campaigns is part of the setting.

People should also be allowed to have "personal events" too, especially if they remain quiet about it and not go advertise in Bendir about what they are going to do next. Also personal quests which don't necessarily involve slighting one of the factions on the server but is instead more focused on the characters present, etc.

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SamTheGiantSlayer
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:09 PM 

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Raua wrote:
I like any events.


That sums up my thoughts pretty thoroughly!

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:19 PM 

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This could be a one year event goal, six months, three months or even one month. I perhaps misspoke, we don't need to abandon the way things are completely. But adding this i think would be good for the server.

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Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:34 PM 

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I'm glad to see this post is generating some Buzz. Over all census. We want Event's. 8)

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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:39 PM 



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An event or plot doesn't need to cater to one group. We could always have an actual war if Tarkull/Kohl would get off its asses or Cordor corruption reared its head again. Stagnation does no one any good despite the "persistent world" argument.


 
      
Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:48 PM 

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lilmarcat wrote:
An event or plot doesn't need to cater to one group. We could always have an actual war if Tarkull/Kohl would get off its asses or Cordor corruption reared its head again. Stagnation does no one any good despite the "persistent world" argument.


A War would be sweet!!!

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T0mc4t89
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 16:48 PM 



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A war between Kohl and Tarkuul would be very difficult to organise and would be a cause of a lot of drama between peeps, so I doubt thats happening for a long time.

And corruption in Cordor would have to suddenly sprout out from somewhere, right now everything seems unified in Cordor, even the West with the central government.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 17:06 PM 



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Well, with how the server currently is set up, a war with Tarkuul would look just about the same as a war with Neverwinter, Luskan, or any other NPC-run city.

PC Evil is not really a viable plot hook, as the server is set up currently. There's always interest, at least from a few people, but it doesn't match the amount of people in Kohl, Bendir, Winya and general good standing together. So they're not out for blood or an all-out war. I'm pretty sure any sort of all-out war will -have- to be orchestrated by a DM. The Arcanum plotline, from what I can gather from reading about it made a few evil factions do stuff, but it was instigated by a DM. To be honest, I think most evil factions are pretty afraid of being either Black Caravan'd or sharing the same fate as Draven about one-and-a-half year ago where they're camped by a mob, pretty much out of nowhere.

This isn't to say that PC evil will never thrive here, but without any deeply-rooted, established PC faction currently, a war is not likely. I mean, evil factions tend to rise rather quickly, and either fall quickly, or stagnate. Now, stagnating isn't so good, but when a faction rises so quickly, it's not rooted, and can be plucked out as easy as a seedling in sand.


 
      
xXCrystal_Rose
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 17:46 PM 

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I only briefly skimmed this. Any kind of meta-event would always be cool. Something to rewrite borders and create conflict, where there is perhaps no clearly distinguished good/evil choices, or where any subjective 'good' choice has much more catastrophic consequences, forcing characters to consider balance and realistic necessity in an immersive political and societal manner over black and white goggles. If it helps get people out of Halfling Tyrant-town then all the better!

Kind of selfishly suggesting here, but war always helps bring people to eachothers throats, and it'd be cool to maybe see Khol try to annex Bendir's Dale to become their vaasal state and mandatory conversion to pure gods, and Cordor realizing the trade route implications of it and resisting, starting a bit of a fuedal battle. No right/wrong choices, purely kings and politics, where you may have paladins of Tyr murdering other paladins of Tyr in the name of the legal bodies they represent, and potential for all sorts of shady alliances which can shift players against eachother and build a fire to tear down Team Good Best Friends Conglomeration Inc. vs The Real World mentality. And with some people who are starting to venerate THE god of war, well, you know how things go when merchants get greedy and realize how much gold there is to be made from bloodshed, and politicians realize that wars are a good cover for their own corruption.


 
      
Impknightofireland
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 18:03 PM 

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Halfling Tyrant-town LMAO i spit my beer up!

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 19:09 PM 

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Well I might continue my event then.

However, if people will then keep ignoring what is happening, then shit may hit the fan for the island and all islands around. Big time.

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 19:11 PM 

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NVM, shit will prolly hit the fan regardless. <.< just in another way. :twisted:

I will psot in the according DM event thread when I know my next week shedule.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Sun, Nov 12 2017, 23:29 PM 



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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Started one. Noone looked into it. :P


Same here... did a few....noone even bothered to look into it only when I brought it to the doorsteps of a few factions.

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Luckbringer
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 5:14 AM 

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Amarice-Elaraliel wrote:
Well I might continue my event then.

However, if people will then keep ignoring what is happening, then shit may hit the fan for the island and all islands around. Big time.


Thanks Amarice, I think this is the best attitude for DMs to have when starting plots. There should always be consequences, even with inaction. Let the place go to hell if nonone does anything, it makes the place feel alive. I always viewed the DMs as the forces of nature that shape the world, the ebbs and tides, the storm fronts that roll in and out. Its up to the players to battern down the hatches or steer the ship away from the rocks. If the players don't heed the warning let them crash. I believe we're all here for adventure, and the biggest adventure is the one you don't see coming till it grabs you by the #*!+.

I truly miss the old storytelling that used to be so prevailing in the server. It wasn't about big events so much, but about creating a living world. I looked forward to Yoss's newspaper updates or other DMs shouts to see what happened in Cordor, or what Tarkuul and Kohlingen where facing off on this month. Prominent NPCs had voices out there, they did things, people reacted, players jumped in and out of their plots and schemes.

I do not want to be critical of the DMs of present. This is just my humble view from a player perspective looking in. It feels to me the grander Amia story has been left aside in the persuit of the demands of the individual. It seems like the DMs have become personal quest/item/rebuild makers, much of their time is sucked in to dev work or forum admin duties, leaving little time for basic storytelling and running the world. I think a shift happened at one point around the end of the Arcanium plot with the dissatisfaction left in its wake. Players started demanding no more big plots and only small personal events. This is where I saw the decline start, and the OOC drama and bickering. Things became fractured, numbers dropped. The last time I could not log into the server because it was full was when the Reye's event was at its peak. However badly it ended, for me it was the last thing that brought so many players together on the server to share a grand adventure.

Lets try it again and see where it takes us.

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 5:23 AM 

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Can we get plots that aren't railroaded?

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Jes
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 7:21 AM 

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I don't understand why people are always so OOC aggressive about Bendir Dale. It doesn't encourage me to play my Dale PC.

Plots are good to have, but I suspect the lack of follow-up, Ama and Lutra, is because the playerbase is so small right now. A big, overarching megaplot doesn't appeal to a lot of people who remember the last one (Reyes) because of sour feelings regarding dozens of different things, from what I remember of it and what others have said to me about it. So when they come across something potentially massive, they literally "nope" the hell away. I've had people tell me they did just that with some plot hooks they stumbled across. Not sure if they were referring to the ones you are, but it's something to think about. Personally, I enjoy the smaller plots. But that's mostly because if I get involved in a big one I tend to be treated poorly OOC by being chucked under a title Yossarin coined for an entirely different reason than it's been used.

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TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 8:49 AM 

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robbi320 wrote:
Well, with how the server currently is set up, a war with Tarkuul would look just about the same as a war with Neverwinter, Luskan, or any other NPC-run city.

PC Evil is not really a viable plot hook, as the server is set up currently. There's always interest, at least from a few people, but it doesn't match the amount of people in Kohl, Bendir, Winya and general good standing together. So they're not out for blood or an all-out war. I'm pretty sure any sort of all-out war will -have- to be orchestrated by a DM. The Arcanum plotline, from what I can gather from reading about it made a few evil factions do stuff, but it was instigated by a DM. To be honest, I think most evil factions are pretty afraid of being either Black Caravan'd or sharing the same fate as Draven about one-and-a-half year ago where they're camped by a mob, pretty much out of nowhere.

This isn't to say that PC evil will never thrive here, but without any deeply-rooted, established PC faction currently, a war is not likely. I mean, evil factions tend to rise rather quickly, and either fall quickly, or stagnate. Now, stagnating isn't so good, but when a faction rises so quickly, it's not rooted, and can be plucked out as easy as a seedling in sand.


That's not what happened to Draven.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 9:56 AM 



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To Tormak, well, that's just about the gist I got from a few people talking. Now, maybe not the best reliable source, but it's all the information I have, and I heard a few times there was OOC drama... Which, no matter which faction we take, seems to be a staple of evil factions.
Of course, it's not like we'll ever really learn what happened, because we're not allowed to talk about stuff like this...


That said, personally, I don't think just quoting the past solves everything. Was the Reyes plot the only overarchin plot that ever was made? If not, why does a single 'bad' plot make everything bad? And, even if so, why not give the (almost completely) new DM team a chance? I'm pretty confident that very few of then had their hands in making the Reyes plot as 'bad' as it was. That said, from what I find on the forums, quite a few people found the start interesting and fun. From what I can gather on the forums, it just dragged on too long and the ending was unsatisfactory.
That said, quite a bit of the player base didn't actually experience the Reyes plot, and certainly not the full of it. So, why not give plots a chance? A new DM team, a different player base, maybe a larger plot can work. Or not. Either way, we'd have more to go off than 'the Reyes plot'.


 
      
Xenos
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 17:01 PM 

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I've always wondered how many events DMs attempt to get going, that nobody follows up on. Mostly concerned, as i feel setting up an event should take a level of dedication, thought and heart. When these get ignored, it is hard to bounce back. But alas, i figured it did not happen often because there are many other fish in the sea to follow up on such things. So for the DMs that have poured themselves into their projects only for nobody to take interest; i'm sorry, stay strong, and keep testing the waters tell you hook an interested fish. Because without your continued efforts, there is nothing.

Just to be VERY clear, the following is my thoughts, and intended to only be constructive. With that said, though, and I've thought awhile on if i should bother posting on this or not, "What good is it going to do?" Anyway, in many of the events I've been in, the story has been great. All the elements are there, but the way they are presented feels off. To make it simple, don't read me a book. If i wanted to read a book, i'd go read a book. Many of the events I've been to felt like the options we're preset. For example, the Sibirix event. Amazing, when i learned more about the scale of that in the time line i was blown away. But ultimately, it felt like there was only one, very specific way to beat the enemy. The Formian event though, felt like options we're unlimited. How do we want to resolve the issue? Try things, and the story will move with you. Both of these events, for better or worse i will remember fondly, so don't take it as a personal attack on whichever DMs.

So what am i saying? I guess i ramble a lot and am hard to understand at times, so;
Try to keep an open mind to outside ideas, let the event flow naturally as it might, not along a linear path. Even if this takes you somewhere unexpected.

Perhaps the secret is to build an outline for events. This is the protagonist. This is his Second in charge, these are his minions. This is his goal. Day 1, he does X to reach that goal. What do the people of Amia do? Likely nothing. Day 100 he does Y to reach his goal. Did the people of Amia notice yet? If so, what do they want to do? Do they want to sail off and conquer some completely unrelated island? Okay, go with it, as long as they at least believe their moving in a direction to resolve the plot. Hints if someone is going totally the wrong way are not unwelcome, but keeping an open mind and fluid story to the ideas people come up with his utterly key. Just as the DM is attempting to be creative in telling a story, so to should the players. Lets work together on this.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 21:30 PM 

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The difficult balance I see in all this is something I didn't realize until I started getting into P&P again.

//Begin unasked-for observations

Events versus Occurrences

To me, an "event" is a show. It's a series of set-pieces that PCs get to participate in. It's pretty straightforward, it's pretty easy to get involved with at all stages, because there are definite, incremental things that happen. There's a pace. There's chapters. And there are one, if not several, outcomes that are already imagined by the DM. Either a series of ways the PC's can "win" the day, or a numbers of fail-states if certain things don't happen.

These are what both DMs and Players usually think of when they say plots. We want more DM plots, I have an idea for a plot. It means you have a general idea of what is going to happen, or can happen, but want it to involve multiple people and have a number of different outcomes. The problem with events/plots is that you get people complaining about it being "railroaded" when their expectations aren't met. Which is fair. We're a RP server, we wan't our RP to matter. On the other hand, I can commiserate with a DM, having set up a cool trap room in a module, taken hours to flush it out, only to have the PCs try literally everything to shortcut around what I thought was the key feature of the adventure. It's frustrating for both sides.

Now, to be even more pedantic and technical, I'd say an "occurrence" is just that. It's just something that happens. A DM possesses an NPC on a whim. A character asks if they can wander over these mountains. It's a lot more done on the fly, just to see what happens. It can even be a collection of such things that eventually build into a larger thing. It's grassroots. It can be started by either a player or a DM, but the rub is this: if no one buys into it, it just stops. Nothing happens. It's Ama's example of where you have things going on, but no one seems to give a shit, so nothing happens. There is not nebulous storyline in mind like with an Event, and since there's nothing that's already determined to happen in case XYZ... it goes into limbo.

This is usually what we mean when we say we want more DM activity. We want the world animated, we want our efforts respected and to have impact. The thing is that this set up relies on players to move things forward and come up with their own motivations and goals. It also relies on DMs being willing to move PCs closer to those goals and being both responsive and flexible. A lot of people on Amia are used to plots. So when a DM isn't explicitly telling them there is a goal to be accomplished OR threatening them with immediate consequences for not doing something, they sit around on their hands and complain that there's nothing to do. By the same token, there are players who will get burnt out in trying to make things happen when their efforts go ignored or unaddressed for too long, and they too fall into the rut of waiting for DMs to move the world.


//End

The point of this whole dissertation is this, if you're tuning back in. If we're all up front with each other, we'll be better off. If you're asking for a huge "overarching plot," you're asking someone to create a huge framework, a Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book. You'll have options, but you'll still have a general flow that says "Turn to page 70 if you drink the potion." That's how that works. And if not, it ends up falling short. "Alright, I had this whole journey set up for you guys, but you insisted on Plane Shifting into the building, so congrats, month-long plot is done in 2 hours." If you want something more freeform, ask for smaller occurrences and then be willing to build them into larger things. You own things. That's where the DMs flexibility comes into play. And DMs, please, please, please be responsive to these efforts. It'll be a lot easier on everyone, because you won't have to be constantly on the spot to meet everyone's expectations. You're just animating the world. But you have to be there to animate it, or people will feel like they're RPing into a vacuum.

This isn't to say don't ask for big plots. I'm simply saying be aware that what you're asking for and what you want may be two different things. If you want big stories that involve a lot of PCs and settlements AND are largely dependent on player actions, you're actually asking for more activity from your fellow player more than anything. If you want something that draws a bunch of other players in, but you're working towards or against a specific goal, that's a plot and that's going to have a bit more structure.

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lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 22:00 PM 



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Lacking access to the DM forums to check up on stuff, the biggest issue I see the DM team face on the server is coordination and communication. There doesn't seem to be any actual "plan" for a plot, its more just singular DMs starting stuff up stuff that'd most likely be classified as filler if Amia we're a TV show. Designating one or two DM's as Plot DM's and having them actually construct the framework for a plot for the next 3-6-9-12 months to give the server a sense of direction would likely be very beneficial. If I recall BGTSCC on NWN2 has something similar to great effect.

I mean, all it'd take is killing Lanie D'Cordor to spark a war if your outta ideas :twisted:


 
      
Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 22:05 PM 

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We do actually have a very own DM forum just for plot layouts.

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 13 2017, 23:28 PM 

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I was aware DMs kept notes on plots and settlements. But I if I had one specific thing I'd like to see, it's DMs getting more comfortable with taking over other DMs initiatives, if only for a moment.

Having one DM per settlement or area of lore is... okay... because it means they've got expertise. But when that DM can't be contacted or is otherwise incapacitated, it's super stagnating if no one else can keep the ball rolling. We have so few operating at any time, it should almost be a necessity at this point.

What's the worst that happens, you know? A DM stands in for another DM for a day or so, animates a few NPCs, advances the story. The original DM might come back later and disagree with how things were handled, but at least the PCs got to continue their RP. So, in these DM Plot threads, maybe the DMs could start leaving notes specifically for other DMs in case they have to take over the effort. "Look, these are the PCs involved, this is what they know, this is what they don't know. If someone else picks this up, you can let them do A, B, and C but do NOT allow them to do D. There's a specific way I want that handled and if you have to, just stall until I can get back to it." As long as good logs are kept, everyone should be on the same page.

That in itself will lead to plots naturally crossing over and becoming bigger "server-wide" things. If you're all somewhat involved in each other's efforts, or at the least somewhat aware of where they're headed, you can start to weave stories together, rather than have them be parallel and self-contained. This is of course coming from the peanut gallery, but it sounds like something that would work in my mind.

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Amarice-Elaraliel
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 14 2017, 0:16 AM 

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There is nothing that says they can't, on contrary. But I doubt most DMs will ever be comfortable touching another DMs plot unless 1. They know that DMs playstyle very well and the other DM in question 2. The other DM is long long looooooooong gone.

Not because they shouldn't or mustn't, but simply because most DMs do not want to touch another DMs stuff. And there is little you can do to make them if they do not feel comfortable with it. And most,a s said, just don't feel comfortable with it.

I mean tbh... even in my RL job... noone in the company will want to touch another persons case/files, unless they really utterly have to and have no other choice. :P

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Dark Immolation
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 14 2017, 2:04 AM 

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Yeah, but that's a matter of comfort leads to PCs becoming disinterested and discouraged. By the time the DM is "long gone," so are the players more often. I get it, I totally get it. But is allowing DMs to remain in their comfort zones worth players falling off and feeling abandoned?

I guess my point is if we're all supposed to be coordinating as players to knit together a story, I think the DMs should be, too. Proactively. It's the DM team, after all. You've all got your own efforts, but at the end of the day, they all happen on the same server and with the same playerbase. :) Of all people, I feel like our stewards should take it the least personal when it comes to continuing plots and settlement activity, for the sake of the players.

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The Little Dragon
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 15 2017, 16:53 PM 



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There were many players with little things going on, which were then either ignored or shutdown, time a many, so they left. Perhaps the server is just becoming too dm focused and the dms should step back, rather than building the plotlines which are linear and have no risk, but look to what players are doing and just assist when they need deus ex machina to move forward.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Wed, Nov 15 2017, 17:41 PM 



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I'd say the last few years were player focused. There has to be quality control. You can't do whatever you want. I like D&D. I like the setting. I wouldn't want people do develop firearms, for example. Or space lasers. It's just not Forgotten Realms... So there has to be quality control. Personally, I dislike how many monster races are largely good-aligned. Hell, I absolutely dislike kobolds. And it's not a thing against the players, it's just weird that PC kobolds almost always are good...
But otherwise, it was player focused, so I think changing up some things might be good. I don't think much came of it. And if nobody but the DMs heard about it, it isn't likely that it was supported all too much...

Also, Deus ex Machina seldomly is a good thing. It doesn't feel right. It comes out of nowhere. Coincidences that get people into troubke are good, Coincidences that get them out of trouble are bad.
I do think that events shouldn't always be planned as 'good wins' or even 'society wins'. Especially like Amarice said, if an event is ignored, bad stuff should happen. I'd say most settlements do have protection against the most common things. A settlement soreads out as far as it can support its' size. Anything larger than that, or stronger than the usual monsters are likely to make a dent into the town. So if nobody helps... RIP.


 
      
DolphinRacer
 
PostPosted: Sat, Nov 18 2017, 23:55 PM 

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Railroad plots have also been a common trend that direly needs to stop. When a DM has a specific goal in mind and players are not leaning towards that goal or are moving things faster due to ingenuity or methodical pressure, the DMs response should not be to render all attempts to forward the plot in the direction the players want impossible while forcing it to go exactly the way they want. Its grossly unfair to the players and is unfortunately something that I've seen a lot time and again in my time here.

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Grymia
 
PostPosted: Mon, Nov 20 2017, 21:02 PM 

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Much as I've also felt the same way about railroaded plots in my past experiences, I also want to note that there may be unknown impact factors that were missed in the development of such unconventional plans.


 
      
Fenguard
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 21 2017, 19:55 PM 

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Raua wrote:
I like any events.


Fourth'nded

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PassionateShadow
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 21 2017, 19:59 PM 

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Fenguard wrote:
Raua wrote:
I like any events.


Fourth'nded


+1


As for lack of any real dm activity and the general poor execution I encourage current dm's to branch and and look in to what it means to run a good game, And look up means of achieving good plot and story elements and how to design them as a DM. There's plenty of sources on the web. No need to be scared. They don't bite and they are actually very useful for a lot of the prevalent problems and stagnation on the server.

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Mrlala
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 21 2017, 20:06 PM 



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I haven't run along in many events but I've always found that the dm team is very friendly and encouraging. I dont mind if it are server wide events or personal events. Either way, I'm enjoying Amia. With or without supervision!

So thank you, dm team. For volunteering your free-time while you have jobs and family! I appreciate it :)

Best regards,

MrLala


 
      
KnightOfKelemvor
 
PostPosted: Tue, Nov 21 2017, 21:16 PM 

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Mrlala wrote:
I haven't run along in many events but I've always found that the dm team is very friendly and encouraging. I dont mind if it are server wide events or personal events. Either way, I'm enjoying Amia. With or without supervision!

So thank you, dm team. For volunteering your free-time while you have jobs and family! I appreciate it :)


+1

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