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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 12 2018, 21:09 PM 

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I was told before that the long list of bans in Cordor was pretty much null, just as well since it is the main RP hub. Yet my character has apparently been banned from Cordor for nothing more than being a Banite. So is this where we're at still? Cordor has been the only place I can get any RP and now "poof" like that my character is essentially useless. The last post in the list of bans in Cordor was in 2016. Are people still being punished for the crap they didn't do, that happened way back in the day? I can't find any clarification on this anywhere in the forums.

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waswar
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 12 2018, 22:10 PM 

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Did someone in the Cordorian government or a DM bring this up?

Otherwise, I will offer my two-cents, as a non-government-official, non-DM point-of-view.

Whilst your character may be in the records, it's quite probable that none of the guards have the time to care about enforcing the banishment, and indeed it wouldn't be unlikely that your character's name could just sit there until a bureaucrat unfamiliar with it writes it off due to lack of context, memory, and justification to continue the ban.

Having the Cordor subforum cleaned up would probably be wise in general, though.


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 12 2018, 22:15 PM 

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Honestly I feel like anything that is years old (barring some major crime like a mass murder or something) should be stricken. Banning from a settlement should be saved for repeat offenders or serious criminals, other punishments should be explored. At this point I don't think being a Banite should be an auto ban from anywhere (except maybe Kohl!). Besides, it should have to be proved someone is a Banite, not just people getting lumped into a group.

Just my two cents as an inactive.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 12 2018, 22:50 PM 



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You can appeal to a DM, the ban rules were... reviewed a while ago. This could be interesting: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88293

No idea why it's not stickied, tbh...


 
      
Elyon
 
PostPosted: Wed, Sep 12 2018, 23:01 PM 



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IMO, the banishment list/bans should have been gone since the STU disbanded. Currently, I'm not aware if there was an official standing about this, though I've brought this up with the team and we'll get back to this thread soon.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 0:00 AM 



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Hrmm....

That's a good thing that's been brought up. Despite hte fact that the banlist is player written most of those faction bans were issued by the DMs...from what I can see most of those were issued around 2009-10. Most of the PC bans were also issued back in those days or even before that.

The banite case is something that we should lift imho. The problem there is twofold. Lorewise there is no reason for the officials to think that the banites ceased to exist as Fzoul's presence is a clear indicator on the mainland and the banites do have an organization that tends to gather them. However, that ban was aimed against a faction in our Amian setting which no longer exists. So I think that should be lifted. Much the same applies to the bans on other factions that don't exist anymore.

Summa summarum we need to revise everything on that board.

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DukeDublin
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 3:34 AM 

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I am all for this being the case (a clean up and much needed clarifications), even if a certain character may not be happy!

Being the defacto place to start on the server as well as being the only link to Demonreach I know of less is more in this case. And, I think it will bring some dynamic political landscape rp with it!

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freaxxshow1338
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 6:00 AM 

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Make Cordor great again!

No but seriously, I have been able to avoid Bendir with Valora for the most part lately.

Cordor really proves to be a good hub lately, should really update everything..

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Kiyona
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 8:35 AM 

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DukeDublin wrote:
I am all for this being the case (a clean up and much needed clarifications), even if a certain character may not be happy!

Being the defacto place to start on the server as well as being the only link to Demonreach I know of less is more in this case. And, I think it will bring some dynamic political landscape rp with it!


There is another boat to Demonreach outside Kampos. Just leave that Plas through the gate behind the shady merchant and walk over the bridge. There is a boatman on the left side beyond that bridge.

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Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 11:23 AM 

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I know a certain situation triggered this and we’re discussing it to make certain things clear.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 13:06 PM 

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Being a Banite is to me a good reason to ban your arse from the city. Considering Banites history on Amia.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 13:12 PM 

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Budly wrote:
Being a Banite is to me a good reason to ban your arse from the city. Considering Banites history on Amia.


Assuming you're a known banite! Like alignment unless it's openly known IC and I don't mean by a DM peaking at your character sheet or people reading a journal entry on the story forum... it shouldn't be an issue.
Not like everyone carries a passport with their IC details in it. :twisted:

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 13:14 PM 

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walnutboy wrote:
Budly wrote:
Being a Banite is to me a good reason to ban your arse from the city. Considering Banites history on Amia.


Assuming you're a known banite! Like alignment unless it's openly known IC and I don't mean by a DM peaking at your character sheet or people reading a journal entry on the story forum... it shouldn't be an issue.
Not like everyone carries a passport with their IC details in it. :twisted:


I do asume it is known in this case.

Do it ICly like I had to do on Budly with Kohlingen. Cause I had to wait days IRL to get it lifted via IC interaction.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 13:41 PM 

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Saya was banned from Kohlingen for a couple years... :lol:

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 14:34 PM 

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Budly wrote:
walnutboy wrote:
Budly wrote:
Being a Banite is to me a good reason to ban your arse from the city. Considering Banites history on Amia.


Assuming you're a known banite! Like alignment unless it's openly known IC and I don't mean by a DM peaking at your character sheet or people reading a journal entry on the story forum... it shouldn't be an issue.
Not like everyone carries a passport with their IC details in it. :twisted:


I do asume it is known in this case.

Do it ICly like I had to do on Budly with Kohlingen. Cause I had to wait days IRL to get it lifted via IC interaction.


But this said, I don't think Cordor would pay much notice. The Holy city fine, they are lawful all goodly like but Cordor is pretty much a mixing pot right now though will also echo some other thinking... its a starting area for most and is a hub in some cases for travel.

Morally Cordor is pretty fluid in places!!

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 15:31 PM 

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walnutboy wrote:



But this said, I don't think Cordor would pay much notice. The Holy city fine, they are lawful all goodly like but Cordor is pretty much a mixing pot right now though will also echo some other thinking... its a starting area for most and is a hub in some cases for travel.

Morally Cordor is pretty fluid in places!!


If it's on a IC list, its on a IC list.

Budly was banned from Kohlingen, back in those days it was all stemming from a OOC conflict between players (in my viewpoint), I fixed that icly anyway. IC bans are to be fixed ICly. Is it a engine limitation that bans Draco anyway? Well, thats beyond the point and up to DMs and Devs.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 16:10 PM 

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My point is more banning someone ICly but only knowing they are one thing or another by OOC means.
Granted I don't know the specifics.

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 16:13 PM 

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Budly wrote:
Being a Banite is to me a good reason to ban your arse from the city. Considering Banites history on Amia.


So you're essentially saying there's no point in ever playing a Banite on Amia. Finding RP as a bad guy was hard before but unjust blanket bans makes it impossible. With so few players on the server and most of them in Cordor, it's a real bummer to be banned simply because you worship a certain god, IC knowledge or not. For me, being a banite that hides his religion for fear of retribution isn't a true banite. If you break one of the laws, then that's one thing and should be handled accordingly. But characters shouldn't be punished for something one faction did like ten years ago.

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Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 16:44 PM 

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At some point you have to say 'fuck the IC, let's fix this OOC'. Just because Banites did some (awesomely) evil shit in the past doesn't mean we should punish players now (because honestly it punishes people that want to play evil). Hell, it used to be even if you weren't a known Banite then stepping into Cordor was considered metagaming by DMs (not all, but I was told that, of course this was probably 5 or so years ago).

I'm all for bans that make sense but there comes a point when things need to be fair on an OOC level. If the Banites (or any group) starts up shit again and poses a significant threat to a city* then perhaps bans should be looked at again.

*I say this because City A shouldn't ban Group X because Group X threatened City B. That's how it used to go and honestly is annoying. You can make allowances for allied cities, but honestly with how small Amia Island is that just sets precedence for the whole island (barring maybe two settlements) being once bit alliance and making evil fuck off completely again. That's not fun.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 17:48 PM 

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Ðraco wrote:
Budly wrote:
Being a Banite is to me a good reason to ban your arse from the city. Considering Banites history on Amia.


So you're essentially saying there's no point in ever playing a Banite on Amia. Finding RP as a bad guy was hard before but unjust blanket bans makes it impossible. With so few players on the server and most of them in Cordor, it's a real bummer to be banned simply because you worship a certain god, IC knowledge or not. For me, being a banite that hides his religion for fear of retribution isn't a true banite. If you break one of the laws, then that's one thing and should be handled accordingly. But characters shouldn't be punished for something one faction did like ten years ago.


Come back when you looked into Drow RP and you can complain about your Banites. Lolthites, and overall Drow haven't done fuck all to Cordor, Bendir Dale and so on in years but that "blanket" ban won't be lifted, will it?

Seriously talking, you can handle this ICly. DMs already seem to be on the case. Cordor has not been a hub for YEARS. So I do not see what this is coming from, It got some traffic of late but freaking Tarkuul last year had more traffic than Cordor gotten in the last few years.

Quote:
At some point you have to say 'fuck the IC, let's fix this OOC'. Just because Banites did some (awesomely) evil shit in the past doesn't mean we should punish players now (because honestly it punishes people that want to play evil). Hell, it used to be even if you weren't a known Banite then stepping into Cordor was considered metagaming by DMs (not all, but I was told that, of course this was probably 5 or so years ago).

I'm all for bans that make sense but there comes a point when things need to be fair on an OOC level. If the Banites (or any group) starts up shit again and poses a significant threat to a city* then perhaps bans should be looked at again.

*I say this because City A shouldn't ban Group X because Group X threatened City B. That's how it used to go and honestly is annoying. You can make allowances for allied cities, but honestly with how small Amia Island is that just sets precedence for the whole island (barring maybe two settlements) being once bit alliance and making evil fuck off completely again. That's not fun.


Choices and consequences. Be an open Banite, get burnt. People learn by their mistakes, why let Banites back in? They are a cult known for their law and order....via pretty fucked up means.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:07 PM 



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And yet, Drow are allowed to do more in the city than Banites...


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:10 PM 

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robbi320 wrote:
And yet, Drow are allowed to do more in the city than Banites...


Be happy, guess you Banites are seen as more dangerous.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:21 PM 



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Besides, I just looked in the old forums... A note to DMs: Please update the bans, since the Ban list in the Guard forums aren't the same as the ones in the general Cordor forums. (Drow are permitted in East, for example)


 
      
waswar
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:28 PM 

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What the Banites did was an eternity ago. The ban should be lifted to solidify Cordor as a mixed city without a moral alignment, and reserve bans for individuals that are acknowledged to have or intend to commit crimes in or overthrow the city.


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:39 PM 

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I say keep em banned and let em prove themself. IC actions should be punished. Not lifted cause of some ooc mindset of "give leeway to RP".

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:41 PM 

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Meanwhile I'm swagging around on my red chromatic in Cordor..

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:44 PM 



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That's what I think is just really strange. And it says something about the setting of Cordor: I can be a goblin RDD/PM preaching of Bhaal (who are by far more extreme than Bane) and as long as he doesn't mention the whole "kill one person per day" thing, he's fully within the laws. But simply being a Banite, which, in itself, doesn't demand anything near the same level as Bhaal. Now that's vile.


 
      
Naivatkal
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:45 PM 

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Here's the issue with that, though. Once you single out all the 'bad people' the 'good people' will just hide behind their walls of metagaming safety. Which is what was happening for years. I saw it happen for a very long time before I stopped playing on the server. That's not good at all and placing blanket bans just creates this problem. You want to have evil around? Pushing evil out of where everyone is ruins that.

Moreover let's consider this from a law angle: What laws (minus the ban list) are the Banites (known and unknown) breaking? Are they doing anything that would cause someone to get in trouble in Cordor, or are they abiding by the laws of the settlement that they are currently in? The latter sounds like something a Banite would do. I know the old Banites (apparently?) attacked Cordor, and I get that, but that was years ago. Banning all Banites now (because of what an insignificant fraction of the whole did) is silly in legal terms. Realistically they should have been individually banned by name/description, not a blanket ban on all Banites. That's sloppy.

But if Bane followers adhere to the laws (as a Banite would) then they should be a-okay. Course if they break the laws of the city (lol) or attack someone of the city outside the city (ie attack a govt official or guard or something) then yeah they should probably be punished in some way (including possible banishment of that person).

Hell, you know what would be awesome? I would love to see a Banite PC become a guard. Preserving law and order with an iron fist. Sort of sounds like the Law Knights, gasp.

Personally I just think that banning thousands (?) of people over the actions of maybe two dozen is a mishandling of events.

As for Drow remember they are also considered monsters; traditionally Drow are not even PCs whereas Banites would typically be human (or something non-monstrous at least). Whoredancers Eilistraeeans Whoredancers muddle things because they are not Evil, so you can't just say 'well drow fall under the monster category'. Moreover Drow that have not fallen from the Grace of the mighty Lolth 'redeemed themselves' are chaotic and vicious towards anything that lives on the Surface (unless it servers their purpose to not be). So it's not a fair comparison given Lolthites are seen as a 'monsterous invasion that regularly attack and take slaves from the Surface' whereas the Church of Bane are not just going to come fuck up Cordor's shit for no reason.

There's definitely some comparison, but given how Lolthites are 'structured' they are 100% a threat (if they choose to attack a settlement) vs the Church of Bane being a threat only under certain circumstances. They are just two different sides of the same coin in that respect.

I hope some of that all made sense, my brain likes to word vomit the ideas I am thinking at times haha.

Budly wrote:
I say keep em banned and let em prove themself. IC actions should be punished. Not lifted cause of some ooc mindset of "give leeway to RP".

Honestly it's more along the lines of 'this was a fucked way to handle things ad we should fix it'. Also this comes back to the walls of metagaming safety thing:
Image

PuresoulX2 wrote:
Meanwhile I'm swagging around on my red chromatic in Cordor..

lol same with the bluekin I rolled around with before I stopped playing. Banites? Fuck'em! Chromatic kin? Let's have a beer!
It's a weird disconnect in logic.

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robbi320
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:55 PM 



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Fuck this, now I actually want to make my Banite just write a friendly letter to the Cordor government, like "hey, you guys, we didn't do anything evil in the last years. Besides, here's some money for an orphanage or something".

Besides, to the OP: These people:
Katsumi Aiwaza
Darthion Ilyss
Dimietry Blackcross
Beatrix
Tazul
Exordius

Are the only Banites correctly banned from Cordor. As far as server rules go, every other character is allowed in, as long as they don't obviously bane-vomit all over the streets.
If you're caught being a Banite, consider the time until people finally get around to adding you to the list the time bureaucracy took. We wanna keep it IC? That's how to keep it IC.

If you obviously wear symbols of Bane, maybe it'd be best if you take those off before entering, but otherwise, that's what the server rules say.


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:56 PM 

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Kobolds also use to plague the amia frontier nearby Cordor. The days when they were considered vermin/pests. Kobolds are allowed in the city, my Orog is allowed in the city, and I could go on.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 18:58 PM 

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Quote:
Honestly it's more along the lines of 'this was a fucked way to handle things ad we should fix it'. Also this comes back to the walls of metagaming safety thing:


That is not my problem, my problem is that the Banite church can seemingly act like a powergamers haven for years, get banned and years later they can cry out about while people still complain on Drows and that they are "allowed" in Cordor. Please, Drows as in the Evil kind, lost 3 cities by now. Banites lost nothing, the Banites can run off to any array of cities still on the server. Complaining about Cordor not being open to them is like complaining you do not get to enter Bendir Dales Hinn Inn, both are as -not- used, usually.

Banning a Cult is what people do, Banites are bad people, done bad shit on Amia and adventurers know their true self, being dictatorial asshats. Blanket ban all Drow while you're at it. Punish everybody for their choices and consequences and see roleplay propser from the suffering of people IClys. :wink:

The common way to ban an annoying group is to mark them as enemies or more modernly so, terrorists. Cordor would clearly not go around with a wanted poster if a faction is to much trouble. I say, ban their rears as a faction and be done with it if they cause ruckus. I bet Cordor West is open to scum like Banites and insane people like Drow Lolthites.

Kill all Kobolds and Goblinoids on sight too.

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Ðraco
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:07 PM 

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Budly wrote:
Quote:
Honestly it's more along the lines of 'this was a fucked way to handle things ad we should fix it'. Also this comes back to the walls of metagaming safety thing:


That is not my problem, my problem is that the Banite church can seemingly act like a powergamers haven for years, get banned and years later they can cry out about while people still complain on Drows and that they are "allowed" in Cordor. Please, Drows as in the Evil kind, lost 3 cities by now. Banites lost nothing, the Banites can run off to any array of cities still on the server. Complaining about Cordor not being open to them is like complaining you do not get to enter Bendir Dales Hinn Inn, both are as -not- used, usually.

Banning a Cult is what people do, Banites are bad people, done bad shit on Amia and adventurers know their true self, being dictatorial asshats. Blanket ban all Drow while you're at it. Punish everybody for their choices and consequences and see roleplay propser from the suffering of people IClys. :wink:

The common way to ban an annoying group is to mark them as enemies or more modernly so, terrorists. Cordor would clearly not go around with a wanted poster if a faction is to much trouble. I say, ban their rears as a faction and be done with it if they cause ruckus. I bet Cordor West is open to scum like Banites and insane people like Drow Lolthites.

Kill all Kobolds and Goblinoids on sight too.


All I see in this post is a lot of bias, did a Banite steal your lunch money or something?

Things are better handled IC of course, but it's also a smart IC approach to treat each indiscretion individually. "People that follow this god are all bad because of this in the past". That's like saying all Muslims are terrorists because a few of them blew up a building. Or all Christians are vile monsters because of what they did in the crusades hundreds of years ago. Past is the past and people should be judged for their own actions, not by the actions of others.

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:09 PM 

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Look, I remember the days of the rivalry between the the war knights and church of bane. I use to the hate banites because I was drawn into the vacuum of hatred for anything evil on Amia. Are we really going to let old prejudices determine the fate of every single banite on the server? Are we really going to oust one entire religion from essentially the entire server for events long past?

People need to do some growing up.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:10 PM 



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robbi320 wrote:
Fuck this, now I actually want to make my Banite just write a friendly letter to the Cordor government, like "hey, you guys, we didn't do anything evil in the last years. Besides, here's some money for an orphanage or something".

Besides, to the OP: These people:
Katsumi Aiwaza
Darthion Ilyss
Dimietry Blackcross
Beatrix
Tazul
Exordius

Are the only Banites correctly banned from Cordor. As far as server rules go, every other character is allowed in, as long as they don't obviously bane-vomit all over the streets.
If you're caught being a Banite, consider the time until people finally get around to adding you to the list the time bureaucracy took. We wanna keep it IC? That's how to keep it IC.

If you obviously wear symbols of Bane, maybe it'd be best if you take those off before entering, but otherwise, that's what the server rules say.


It was a plot consequence from a DM back in the days but I would have to dig up the full story since I only saw what happened on playerside at the time (2009-10). Reasons why I said that it should be revisited since that faction is long gone.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:12 PM 



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In fact the Commonwealth didn't want to ban the banites for a while - despite the popular demand back then - until they actually did something against Cordor. Reasons why they were selected for the ban and not because they are evil or because they are banites.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:24 PM 

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Ðraco wrote:
Budly wrote:
Quote:
Honestly it's more along the lines of 'this was a fucked way to handle things ad we should fix it'. Also this comes back to the walls of metagaming safety thing:


That is not my problem, my problem is that the Banite church can seemingly act like a powergamers haven for years, get banned and years later they can cry out about while people still complain on Drows and that they are "allowed" in Cordor. Please, Drows as in the Evil kind, lost 3 cities by now. Banites lost nothing, the Banites can run off to any array of cities still on the server. Complaining about Cordor not being open to them is like complaining you do not get to enter Bendir Dales Hinn Inn, both are as -not- used, usually.

Banning a Cult is what people do, Banites are bad people, done bad shit on Amia and adventurers know their true self, being dictatorial asshats. Blanket ban all Drow while you're at it. Punish everybody for their choices and consequences and see roleplay propser from the suffering of people IClys. :wink:

The common way to ban an annoying group is to mark them as enemies or more modernly so, terrorists. Cordor would clearly not go around with a wanted poster if a faction is to much trouble. I say, ban their rears as a faction and be done with it if they cause ruckus. I bet Cordor West is open to scum like Banites and insane people like Drow Lolthites.

Kill all Kobolds and Goblinoids on sight too.


All I see in this post is a lot of bias, did a Banite steal your lunch money or something?

Things are better handled IC of course, but it's also a smart IC approach to treat each indiscretion individually. "People that follow this god are all bad because of this in the past". That's like saying all Muslims are terrorists because a few of them blew up a building. Or all Christians are vile monsters because of what they did in the crusades hundreds of years ago. Past is the past and people should be judged for their own actions, not by the actions of others.


Oh there we go! Now it came in!

I bet you call all nazis for what they are too, nazis? And do not think they shoulw be allowed to do anything? Banites can be seen as religious nazis in how they act, really nice to stoop down to the level of mixing in real life religions in this.

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:36 PM 

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Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.

I'm just here to say, before the lock...

... penis.

*cackles and runs away*

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PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:37 PM 

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Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Location: Canada

Well, that went south quick.

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Lutra
 
PostPosted: Thu, Sep 13 2018, 19:43 PM 



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Joined: 13 Feb 2008

Good job everyone (save those who contributed in a constructive manner). This goes for a lockdown.

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