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What should we do IC with Amia EE?
1. Full Copy: leave all areas the same. 16%  16%  [ 16 ]
1. Partial Copy: remove Arelith references. 19%  19%  [ 19 ]
1. Full Wipe: remove all areas and start fresh. 15%  15%  [ 15 ]
2. No IC Change: don't remove Arelith references IC. 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
2. IC Retcon: just change the names without a story so it's easier. 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
2. IC Story: remove the areas via an apocalyptic story arc. 33%  33%  [ 33 ]
Total votes : 100
Strom
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 11:33 AM 

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I voted for removal of the Arelith references, and an apocalyptic end to Amia.

:twisted: Let it drown in Umberlee's sweet embrace. :twisted:

The reasoning here, I believe has been echoed in the sentiments of Aurora, Revak and Tormak's posts, and I agree with Jes' logic from a simple perspective of needing to complete to succeed, and needing to be set apart from Arelith.

I don't entirely like the idea that things are completely gone; I'd much prefer certain ruined elements of the old Island become a sunken atlantis set of areas overrun by sahuagin or something. That way, you don't need to submerge the entire old Island; but iconic parts survive. You don't have to even give them context; that's in the memory of the legacy players. For example: -

'Sunken Amia: Southern Ruins' = Cordor Central
'Sunken Amia: Northern Ruins' = Kohlingen Tri-Temple
'Amia Reefs: Crag Peak Ruins' = Parts of Tarkuul wrecked against the tops of the Skullcrags that still prod from the ocean.

They could even be dungeons; so you revist them as part of reclaiming 'Broken Relics', 'Ley-Knot Fragments' or 'Echoes of the Voice' which you can hand into 'Archivists' for access to classic end-game item shops. The Magisterum Archive, Republic Archive, and Triad Archive could all dish out variations of items like the abyss shop has.

Regardless of which way it goes... What I do think changing up the setting will do, is give people a good grounding to start exciting, new stories.
Especially if we start on a Flotilla of sorts, and players need to decide if they want to join the guys trying to find a new homeland, or remain like the quarians on Mass Effect and become a vagabond people living on the waves. Whatever happens, I want to see this go down; I'm happy to perma some characters too to trim down the vault size.

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Last edited by Strom on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 12:46 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 11:54 AM 

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Honestly, server will get accused of copying if things are left as is, so there isn't really a choice to change names or remove areas and references to them. This also leads to the problem that our characters know about those... so they themselves are references to the Arelith stuff.

Because of that, and even if that isn't "really" directly the subject (it is though), I feel like keeping all of our characters is a problem in itself. Heck, if I were a new player with ideas for a new place to explore, I wouldn't enjoy being a level 1 character in a sea of lvl30 characters and alts with years and years of background related to a setting that borrows from the top dog on EE.

Characters have to be wiped, or at least their memories and levels erased if we want the server to have a chance and all of the Arelith references gone. Let us start from the ground up, all on the same level, make new alliances, walk different paths, etc. I will be a good opportunity to rebalance some of the things too (like making shields weaker to balance out the less efficient two-handed weapons / dual wield fighting, etc.). Can even leave the dungeons as they are, so that partying becomes encouraged and soloing harder.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 13:32 PM 

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Revak wrote:

I mean it's either that or as Jes has said above people will think we're ripping off Arelith, especially more since Arelith is the top dog on EE right now. Whilst in the past people knew about the Amia-Arelith split newcomers will not. They'll just see the names and think "Oh, that's on Arelith. These guys trying to copycat Arelith or something?". Yes, there are lorebooks and a wreath of mentions to Bendir Dale, Cordor and other Arelith related settlements/locations. A lot of people will also see the announcements pertaining to this whole change around and the explanations for the name changes etc. We won't lose the roots that made Amia what it is today, but the server needs to adapt to the changes coming. Sure, we'll lose a few iconic names, but we'll be getting so much more in return. I'm really looking forward to this new chapter of Amian history.


What is this "much more" we will get in return?

Never, ever, forget your history. We can educate people. The roots of Amia will be gone if we do this. We already bombed parts of the server and changed them significantly. If we removed Bendir Dale, Cordor and such places we remove very iconic Amian places, just because Arelith and Amia was a split up.

Mushidoz wrote:
Honestly, server will get accused of copying if things are left as is, so there isn't really a choice to change names or remove areas and references to them. This also leads to the problem that our characters know about those... so they themselves are references to the Arelith stuff.

Because of that, and even if that isn't "really" directly the subject (it is though), I feel like keeping all of our characters is a problem in itself. Heck, if I were a new player with ideas for a new place to explore, I wouldn't enjoy being a level 1 character in a sea of lvl30 characters and alts with years and years of background related to a setting that borrows from the top dog on EE.

Characters have to be wiped, or at least their memories and levels erased if we want the server to have a chance and all of the Arelith references gone. Let us start from the ground up, all on the same level, make new alliances, walk different paths, etc. I will be a good opportunity to rebalance some of the things too (like making shields weaker to balance out the less efficient two-handed weapons / dual wield fighting, etc.). Can even leave the dungeons as they are, so that partying becomes encouraged and soloing harder.


I think this is a good way to go, clean slate.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Cracked Red Eye Orb
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 13:57 PM 



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Delete everything including poorly implemented spaghetti code scripts and characters.

If anything, you should copy the good systems and changes Arelith has in place. Like the professions, item crafting and enchanting systems. Far more rewarding and enjoyable using those than it had ever been on Amia. Plus this gives the chance of resetting the economy and severely reducing the amount of gold given out and the price of merchants buying items, rather than having characters literally carrying tens of millions around.


Last edited by Cracked Red Eye Orb on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 14:09 PM, edited 2 times in total.

 
      
Magiros
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 14:04 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
What Tormie said



I voted apocalypse and retcon. I favour apocalypse.

Reasoning:
1. The ton of lore and background you need to get into Amia, while great we have that, make entry (IMO) so hard.
2. Everything feels stale and so difficult to touch and reshape. Its like we avoid doing anything to avoid work or trying to preserve everything because we worked so hard to obtain it. Let it go (Frozen).
3. I want to feel like we are in wild lands and not some status quo. Ah, another beastmen raid or whatever demon army comes, we kill it and yay we are safe again. I want to see people suffer and fight.
4. I want those opportunities of the past when we could create new things, raze new thing, fly and become great just to fall to the darkness. The story of all of that what made Amia so great, the fact we allowed each others to change our chars and allowed the surroundings to change.
5. That Arelith connection is not something I see important to preserve, plus the identity crisis that comes. Better be without.


Try not to make the possible apocalypse such a train that just hits. Make sense of it if possible. Give opportunity to spare some "relics" of cities maybe. Maybe some characters decide to fight till their death and give that opportunity. Maybe tie that to the new concept as some items descriptions, like Saint Nebessa at Minmir Bridge, but this time a PC making a "legendary" last stand... If IC constitutes that of course!

I don't think we need to memory remove our chars, it can be the past and just that. The past that once was but now destroyed. After all, Forgotten Realms is known for changing its shape and whatnot.

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Revak
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 14:39 PM 

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Budly wrote:
What is this "much more" we will get in return?


Amia's second chapter. As what the "much more" would entail that remains to be seen, but the idea that it'll be somewhat of a clean slate and the new avenues of RP and situations to react to offer much more than we can possibly do with an island that hasn't massively changed since the end of the Reyes plotline and can't really change. Not everything would disappear mind you as we still have the Ruathym, Brogendenstein, Frozenfar and the Moonshaes additions scattered around. We'd still have places off of Amia that'd remain the same in any event. The island itself however needs some sort've chaotic intervention to bring back that feeling of a frontier and offer players; new and old alike; the chance to forge and reclaim what was lost. It'd no doubt attract new players with the opportunity to leave their own legacies and stories rather than stand in the shadows of what exists now. But that's just me spitballing ideas.

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Magiros
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 14:57 PM 

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Revak wrote:
Budly wrote:
What is this "much more" we will get in return?


Amia's second chapter. As what the "much more" would entail that remains to be seen, but the idea that it'll be somewhat of a clean slate and the new avenues of RP and situations to react to offer much more than we can possibly do with an island that hasn't massively changed since the end of the Reyes plotline and can't really change. Not everything would disappear mind you as we still have the Ruathym, Brogendenstein, Frozenfar and the Moonshaes additions scattered around. We'd still have places off of Amia that'd remain the same in any event. The island itself however needs some sort've chaotic intervention to bring back that feeling of a frontier and offer players; new and old alike; the chance to forge and reclaim what was lost. It'd no doubt attract new players with the opportunity to leave their own legacies and stories rather than stand in the shadows of what exists now. But that's just me spitballing ideas.


+1

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Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 15:10 PM 

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In my view Amia is like a sandbox. The frame and limits are set but within that frames there's a lot you can do. That said a sandbox doesn't have unlimited sand and it doesn't have unlimited space, and eventually you will reach a point where you have to take down old castles to make space for new ones.

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 15:25 PM 

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 15:43 PM 

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Revak wrote:
Budly wrote:
What is this "much more" we will get in return?


Amia's second chapter. As what the "much more" would entail that remains to be seen, but the idea that it'll be somewhat of a clean slate and the new avenues of RP and situations to react to offer much more than we can possibly do with an island that hasn't massively changed since the end of the Reyes plotline and can't really change. Not everything would disappear mind you as we still have the Ruathym, Brogendenstein, Frozenfar and the Moonshaes additions scattered around. We'd still have places off of Amia that'd remain the same in any event. The island itself however needs some sort've chaotic intervention to bring back that feeling of a frontier and offer players; new and old alike; the chance to forge and reclaim what was lost. It'd no doubt attract new players with the opportunity to leave their own legacies and stories rather than stand in the shadows of what exists now. But that's just me spitballing ideas.



I say, in my opinion fully. That Amia 2.0 EE would be the optimal choice if people anyway want to destroy things. Go all in, wipe it all, start over with new characters. This will be hard for many but it is much better than any half measures with certain places just being removed, rebuild, renamed, Whole mountain passes disappearing to replace them with others, under a new name but exactly the same characters.

This option is not on the list, but thats my vote. I can only see it as a beginning of a new cycle, age or whatever you wish to call it to create new wonderful and epic things while we throw away the bad on Amia and truely show this is a restart! We will put our 12+ years of experience into making some excellent and not commit old mistakes, cause -history- teaches us not to old mistakes if we study it, but it also teaches us to look to the old ancient wonders in awe and wishes to do the same or even surpass them. The nostalgia of what been can catapult us into new creations and a golden age for Amia if this is done right.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
NancyTehVampyre
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 16:28 PM 

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Budly wrote:
Angelis96 wrote:
I think you 'may' be missing the reasoning for the concept there.

The notion isn't to wipe out Arelith's influence with the history of the setting. The goal is to not make it the first things new players see on the server and force them to leave thinking it's a copy. Seeing something historically written ICly several months down the line in a random book I severely doubt will change people's minds. It's the first few days on the server that are detrimental to drawing new players around.

Areas on the server will do that. A random book here and there or a reference on the forums in the lore section.... I doubt it.


Okay, let me put this straight to you so you understand what I mean.

If we go out of our way to remove names like Bendir Dale and Cordor. To hide away the fact that we are an Arelith offspring 10+ years ago, it be really awkward and a bad movie plot revelation when they find out that we had several areas named after places on Cordor.

As a standpoint, I say we embrace our Arelith heritage and do our own thing of it.



So much of what Budly said.

Not to mention, if we're only removing areas just to be up on EE faster - There is the option of just slowly add them WHILE already having EE up and do scheduled updates where the server goes down for addition and maintenance. OR push the date of putting EE up to a later date - I don't think anyone would mind -waiting- for the server to go up as long as when it goes up it does fully function.

Amia is the places, Amia is the history (INCLUDING what comes from the history of Arelith) and Amia is also the people and there WILL be people loss and less advocating from the players who are waiting for Amia to go onto EE - just because the apocalypse thing seems like bad writing, and we don't know what's happening via the server changes overall. There is no need to change anything.

Ravenloft moved and changed nothing. Arelith moved and changed nothing.
A lot of places moved and changed nothing and players are happier for it.

And not to mention (I apparently have no better phrase); there are servers that are the same in name for the most part (don't get me started on how many Forgotten Realms this or thats there are, or the amount of Dragonlance servers I have and had seen) all over and nobody immediately thinks it is a copy of anything because those names are lore based and setting based. All servers are unique to themselves and they will never think it is a straight up copy, unless it were literally a duplicate.


 
      
RaveN
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 16:44 PM 

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The following paragraphs are all my individual opinions and do not reflect the views of anyone else:

A lot of the major areas are nostalgic for people, but most of the areas seem pretty played out. At this point, so many character or story arcs have happened on, and to all of them, that many new players might wonder how many years they have to spend before they can become part of the story themselves; while the old ones just remain burnt out from the many stories and iterations they've already experienced. This creates a stale setting, in my opinion, as described above with the castles in an infinite sandbox.

The magic of Amia as a server isn't the name of the area, or even the area itself. The magic is the setting, the rules, the lore, and the roleplay dynamic between players, setting, and DM. The lore is pretty well tied to the main island areas of Amia, sure, but in my opinion, this opportunity gives us the more important opportunity to refine the concept of Amia into one cohesive place and setting rather than the imbalance of.. "It's either on Amia A, or it's somewhere abroad and could be nowhere near Amia and we have no idea how it realistically connects back to this arbitrary island anyways." It never quite sat well with me personally how we'd teleport from a high magic island like "Amia" into Ruathym and suddenly it's "Low magic" and has far more Faerûnian constraints and methodology to it than any of Amia; to which everyone just explains away as 'High, volatile magic'.

Lastly, the old cynic in me yearns for the opportunity for evil to have a story and establishment far more exciting than any iteration that we've been stuck with in the past. Good riddance, I say. If there's a chance I will be motivated to come back playerside; having a blank slate of areas for some of my characters to work with is very enticing. Even more so if the plot embroiled within the new place captivates a healthy D&D setting with alignment organic diversity and conflict, and less "hands off our godmode island".

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Last edited by RaveN on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 16:56 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 16:56 PM 

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RaveN wrote:
My opinion: A lot of the major areas are nostalgic for people, but most of the areas seem pretty played out. At this point, so many character or story arcs have happened on, and to all of them, that many new players might wonder how many years they have to spend before they can become part of the story themselves; while the old ones just remain burnt out from the many stories and iterations they've already experienced. This creates a stale setting, in my opinion, as described above with the castles in an infinite sandbox.

In my opinion, the magic of Amia as a server isn't the name of the area, or even the area itself. The magic is the setting, the rules, the lore, and the roleplay dynamic between players, setting, and DM. The lore is pretty well tied to the main island areas of Amia, sure, but in my opinion, this opportunity gives us the more important opportunity to refine the concept of Amia into one cohesive place and setting rather than the imbalance of.. "It's either on Amia A, or it's somewhere abroad and could be nowhere near Amia and we have no idea how it realistically connects back to this arbitrary island anyways." It never quite sat well with me personally how we'd teleport from a high magic island like "Amia" into Ruathym and suddenly it's "Low magic" and has far more Faerûnian constraints and methodology to it than any of Amia; to which everyone just explains away as 'High, volatile magic'.

Lastly, the old cynic in me yearns for the opportunity for evil to have a story and establishment far more exciting than any iteration that we've been stuck with in the past. Good riddance, I say. If there's a chance I will be motivated to come back playerside; having a blank slate of areas for some of my characters to work with is very enticing.


Yeah, sure. You're right that the lore is in other things. I just find it funny when we in the Kamina worries about DMs thread I believe, some of us mentioned removing certain areas to make it more contained for our numbers, it was out right denied that it would do any good. But now we want to nuke the server in an cataclysmic event that might make Blizzards WoW : Cataclysm blush. :lol:

I still think the best solution is to clean slate 100%.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 17:35 PM 

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Forcing people to perma their characters is a bad idea. Period.

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Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 17:43 PM 

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Guardian wrote:
Forcing people to perma their characters is a bad idea. Period.


Of course, but Amia could been dead few months ago unless people like Jes and others had not stood up to help the server. Then we all be perma'ed with no Amia EE.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 17:47 PM 

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Well yeah, nobody denies that.

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Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


 
      
RaveN
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 17:52 PM 

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While you're right in that outlook, Budly, I'm not exactly sure using this as a point for your case is even justified. Is there something correlative between a character wipe and people stepping up to help the server?.... If anything, I think the idea of losing all of everything might chase people on the fence away. If the team is going to spend all the effort to build the server for EE, the idea isn't going to be to transition whoever is playing now, but to get those people on the fence back in the sandbox as well as the existing population. This change you're suggesting may bring some people in too, but if I had to predict, the former observation is more likely, since the NWN population isn't exactly thriving with new faces every day. Many people here love the familiarity of playing their own characters, some of which have been developing over the span of several years.

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Last edited by RaveN on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 17:59 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Cratz
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 17:58 PM 

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If we're all going to start bank slate on chars, there is one option I can think of.

Let everyone recreate their chars as a free rebuild type of deal, that way if they want to change their build in some way, they're free to, but we let them keep their DC items (because honestly, who wants to lose something they either put a lot of RP into just to say "Fuck it," or bought from the djinn, etc.)

Make it so that the common items dropped form the land, via bosses, champions, etc. become part of the apocalypse plot as an IC reason to leave them behind.

I don't know, Spitballing ideas.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:01 PM 

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RaveN wrote:
While you're right in that outlook, Budly, I'm not exactly sure using this as a point for your case is even justified. Is there something correlative between a character wipe and people stepping up to help the server?.... If anything, I think the idea of losing all of everything might chase people on the fence away. If the team is going to spend all the effort to build the server for EE, the idea isn't going to be to transition whoever is playing now, but to get those people on the fence back in the sandbox. This change you're suggesting may bring some people in too, but if I had to predict, the former observation is more likely, since the NWN population isn't exactly thriving with new faces every day. Many people here love the familiarity of playing their own characters, some of which have been developing over the span of several years.


Equal outcome for new players and old alike. A fresh start. Thats what I think be good. One last epic event on Amia Classic that pretty much is a last stand. With 99,9% death chance for all involved and those who are not "there" flees Amia and "auto shelves" their characters. I think this be a cool concept.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:14 PM 

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Guardian wrote:
Forcing people to perma their characters is a bad idea. Period.

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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:17 PM 

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Kamina wrote:
Guardian wrote:
Forcing people to perma their characters is a bad idea. Period.


I think removing areas because they got Arelith names is also an bad idea. I do have nostalgic memories of Bendir Dale.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:20 PM 

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Budly wrote:
Kamina wrote:
Guardian wrote:
Forcing people to perma their characters is a bad idea. Period.


I think removing areas because they got Arelith names is also an bad idea. I do have nostalgic memories of Bendir Dale.

The poll shows you’re in the minority in that regard

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unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder
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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:21 PM 

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Kamina wrote:
The poll shows you’re in the minority in that regard


Perhaps, but there is no clean slate with new characters as an option.

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Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Magiros
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:22 PM 

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Personally, I don't understand where the idea of permakilling all characters come from.

I don't see it happening.

Could DM please confirm that for the final time, because it is just derailing the topic into something that is not even a consideration.

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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:22 PM 

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Well there's a huge difference between areas and characters.

Areas can be rebuilt. Characters can't.

I "may" be biased because I've never felt any connection to an area too, quite frankly. I "like" Zanshibon because of Eddie, and I "like" Kohlingen because of Daegan and Merc, but I couldn't care less if those are gone. I'd just pick stonemasonry as a job and go building.

If my characters would have to die, however - I'm not saying I'd abandon Amia (she's so hot!), but it'd hurt.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


Last edited by Guardian on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:23 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:23 PM 

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Nonetheless, regardless of whether it distances ourselves from Arelith or not, Amia has become a stagnant environment so there’s no better opportunity to spice it up

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are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and
unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder
when met"


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:23 PM 

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Magiros wrote:
Personally, I don't understand where the idea of permakilling all characters come from.

I don't see it happening.

Could DM please confirm that for the final time, because it is just derailing the topic into something that is not even a consideration.


Of course, I just think it could been a great option.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:25 PM 

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I'm gonna reiterate this, as it seems to be a popular topic.

At the moment, we are not considering a character wipe. Players will (as of this post) be fully able to access their characters with the items/levels they have worked for. As such, this poll is ONLY regarding areas in the module.


This is not in discussion. Characters are not being wiped, period.

Edit: Just so we all stay on the same page!

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Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant

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See me DM-side as:
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Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:30 PM 

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Understood.

I simply hope we do not remove Bendir Dale. People speak of nostalgia in their characters and not wanting perma and such. But Bendir Dale is literally 50% of Budlys story. It is so highly important but cause it is an Arelith tagged town it will seemingly be removed :cry:

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:38 PM 

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Jes wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
Everything he said...


I haven't played on Arelith, so I don't actually know personally what is from there and what isn't. But even though I've never played there, in my time on Amia I have seen countless players come, laugh at us being an imitation, and then leave. It's not fair to us for that to be the first thing people see and it would happen all over again if we came into EE so late in the game under Arelith's shadow. Arelith has done a fantastic job with the EE move, and they have been amazingly successful. Unfortunately for us, that means porting over as a 1:1 instance would only raise that Imitation flag again. Not to mention the fact that Beamdog has their hands in the Arelith pot.

I would personally much rather wipe the entire Amia isle proper, because that would be more fair and make more sense IC, too. And we could then build on all the nice custom areas that we have made. But I do understand the desire people have for keeping things they love.

We could wipe all of Amia island, as Tormak said, and then do a bit of a time jump and incorporate some places in the other areas so that people can still have the things they've worked for. Like, say, give it five years or so IC and that'll explain why the Shrine has a new location near Barak Runedar, or why Kohlingers moved to a new fort in Caraigh with the Salandrans. That would require some building to get it there, but that won't take nearly as long as reworking all the existing areas. We have a bunch of active Devs at the moment, and I'm itching to give them things to do, anyway.

(I'm kinda spitballing ideas, at this point. Don't mind me. I have lots of them.)


For better or worse (mostly worse), Amia's lived in the shadow of Arelith for its entire existence. Even when Amia pulled 2x the playerbase of Arelith, Arelith was the one that would get community spotlights, community outreach, interviews, and more. It's the nature of the beast, I think, and something we all quietly accepted when we broke off and became the sister server, the server that wasn't "the original" anymore. It's something that always bothered me too, but I was never exposed to it in the way you seem to have been. I always ran with people who knew the server's past though, so it was never really a question.

That's why I think, if your intent is really to break free, that it's best to set it all to rest. I don't have many comments about characters, I no longer have any horse in that race. For me personally, I only speak as someone that's been here from day one, and helped drive the creative direction of the server since 2006 to 2017. It's purely a setting discussion. I agree with the comment that for the most part, the setting seems... played out. The end of the Arcanum was the end of an era for Amia, a plot that had gone on for 8-10 RL years (depending on when you take the official start of it, Robertltoner was technically running it before it was handed off to Yoss). Everything since then just seems to have been sort of limping along. The setting has been concluded, inasmuch as its main plot arc, and everything after that has just been a long running epilogue. The only real big remaining plot arc on Amia Island is the one that concerns the literal flying Netherese City that is extremely evil and has a lot going on for it in terms of clarity of purpose and being able to accomplish its goals. Everything else is peanuts compared to the elephant in the room that is Tarkuul. That's why I suggested it be used to spark the apocalypse.

I do think the server would benefit from a bit more open mindedness regarding potential new characters and new influence, but I know it would benefit from a change in the environment, especially if what's desired is a breakaway from a past that, despite changes, I don't think Amia will ever be able to totally escape from. The history will still be there, and it should still be there, but what's left and what's new will be completely Amia.

(Also, arelith's move to EE was awful, rushed, untested, and still full of bugs, the only thing they gained was an influx of people. Don't think they made any massive technical gains. EE sucks ass. Be real, you're doing it for an expanded audience. You're not doing it for any technical improvements, because by and large, besides fixing the container bug, and NWSync, there's not much of any.)

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
Kronox
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:43 PM 

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Ultimately, I feel we should look at this from the root up. We are discussing changes going forward to EE. Why are we moving to EE? Because Amia is terminally stagnant on 1.69 and it is the only way to keep the server alive and increase population. Nostalgia will not save Amia, and I guarantee that playing in a newer setting with people will far outweigh sitting alone in Bendir Dale thinking wistfully of that troll attack one time with your elf friend that was cool. You can have it again.

So with the goal being to breathe new life into the playerbase, and we know EE is the only option for that, we look at the Arelith issue. I think back to when I first came to Amia, and had done some research on the servers available on 1.69. There was no master server at the time, but if there was, I would have hopped on the one with the most people first. Most people trying NWN will at some point, and probably first, try Arelith. Then they try Amia and see Cordor, Bendir Dale, etc. and will think "Oh this is like a Private Minecraft server for Arelith with more xp or something probably, but not as many people, pass." And we won't have the opportunity to educate them on the history or explain the OOC split decades ago, nor would they ultimately care. Would some? Maybe. Will the vast majority? No.

So in my mind, we do have to remove the Arelith names and references. However, there are still the players present now with nostalgia who don't want all their efforts for nothing, or their character's history wiped. So these Arelith names present in the Lore and just not being present anymore as the names is a viable compromise and solution.

I voted for Partial wipe, getting rid of anything with the same name but keeping Amia generated things, via apocalypse. Scattered meteor shower that totaled Cordor and Bendir Dale but Salandran Temple, Shrine, Kohlingen, and the rest are still left standing if still damaged. Your character, not being perma'd, can still think fondly of the old Cordor or Bendir Dale, and even work to recreate it, but you will ALSO have to have the OOC understanding that we cannot keep the names and that your character for the good of the server will need to be on board with a new name for the settlement.

I think this option really succeeds in a few key areas:
1: It's the best compromise for keeping the old, allowing the new, and separating us from the powerhouse that is Arelith.
2: It actually gives Arelith players a reason to come to Amia. Perhaps they had a Cordor Character but has also had a desire to play a post apocalyptic thing. They can introduce their character into the 10 year future post apocalyptic setting and be incorporated with ours in the rebuilding process. I imagine it would take years to develop the kind of status-quo we are used to or what Arelith has and can be a great change of pace for players on both sides.
3: It lets the community decide what should be focused on. We start with a handful of areas. "My character wants to go here to rebuild, who's with me?" That group of players makes efforts there and the devs and DM's can focus on it. If nobody wants to go to, say, Guldorand, the team doesn't need to waste as much time on it necessarily. We start smaller and let natural growth and ideas push server development.

There is nothing stopping anybody from being a Historian-esque character who focuses on nostalgia of pre-apocalypse Amia and tells history. But it has to be just that. History. Else nothing will grow.


 
      
Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:50 PM 

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While there is a certain fight between Amia vs. Arelith, I think we should look at what Arelith did GOOD and why it's so popular. I have spent some time there because "new is good" and two things I think are MAJOR and should be mentioned.

Permanent placables:

It's an absolute top. Players via. job system can create items which, when placed, are placed permanently. Statues, shrines, trees... whatever the job system offers. They ARE destroyable, mind you, and shrines are defiable by clerics of opposite alignment / deity. But it really makes the server feel alive and makes players feel they have an impact.

Loot system:

Amia's loot system is my personal least favourite thing. Automatic gold gather on creature death with a possibility of loot is so "Arena" setting. Make creatures drop standard loot (equipped loot plus extra goodies randomly spawned on creature death like gems and potions AND roll for extra loot from loot bin according to the monster tier). It really needs to be done.

Example:

A goblin wears a leather armour, short sword and a potion of light healing. When you kill it, it drops the leather armour, short sword and the potion (if the goblin did not drink it prior), plus some random misc. items (gems, food, whatever) and rolls a standard Amia roll for loot bin item).

=========

These two things are a major plus for Arelith on Arelith vs. Amia battle. If we cover them up, Amia is superior.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


Last edited by Guardian on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:59 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:58 PM 

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Permanent database tracked placeables, ingame messageboards that are persistent across resets, and the in game speedy messenger services are definitely three things Amia would swoon people with if they had, yeah. I think they're collectively the biggest immersion helpers on Arelith, but that's a discussion that's not really here nor there for the moment.

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Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
Magiros
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:58 PM 

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I just want to echo what has been said.


Give the chance an opportunity.


I know we love to stick what we have done for a long time, such is human nature. But the opportunity to run into people and never know what amazing RP it might be, outweighs the negative for me.

EDIT: Change = Chance

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Last edited by Magiros on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:06 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 18:59 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
Permanent database tracked placeables, ingame messageboards that are persistent across resets, and the in game speedy messenger services are definitely three things Amia would swoon people with if they had, yeah. I think they're collectively the biggest immersion helpers on Arelith, but that's a discussion that's not really here nor there for the moment.


Hey, thats nice, should post that in the other thread with ideas!

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
kindlegem
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:10 PM 

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We have all been waiting for years for an impactful event that will spur our characters to action. An IC apocalypse story arc sounds fantastic and it gives our present development team the creative license to create a unique server that is engaging for both new and old players.

Kamina wrote:
Nonetheless, regardless of whether it distances ourselves from Arelith or not, Amia has become a stagnant environment so there’s no better opportunity to spice it up


+1


 
      
Magiros
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:13 PM 

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kindlegem wrote:
We have all been waiting for years for an impactful event that will spur our characters to action. An IC apocalypse story arc sounds fantastic and it gives our present development team the creative license to create a unique server that is engaging for both new and old players.

Kamina wrote:
Nonetheless, regardless of whether it distances ourselves from Arelith or not, Amia has become a stagnant environment so there’s no better opportunity to spice it up


+1


+1

_________________
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Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:25 PM 

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Magiros wrote:
kindlegem wrote:
We have all been waiting for years for an impactful event that will spur our characters to action. An IC apocalypse story arc sounds fantastic and it gives our present development team the creative license to create a unique server that is engaging for both new and old players.

Kamina wrote:
Nonetheless, regardless of whether it distances ourselves from Arelith or not, Amia has become a stagnant environment so there’s no better opportunity to spice it up


+1


+1


+1

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


 
      
Revak
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:34 PM 

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All my yes to the above.

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Galenson
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:39 PM 

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TormakSaber wrote:
(Also, arelith's move to EE was awful, rushed, untested, and still full of bugs, the only thing they gained was an influx of people. Don't think they made any massive technical gains. EE sucks ass. Be real, you're doing it for an expanded audience. You're not doing it for any technical improvements, because by and large, besides fixing the container bug, and NWSync, there's not much of any.)


Aaaaand there's the truth bomb. Glad to see you haven't changed.

There's no comparing the accessibility of the two after all. 1.69 is PC only, lacks official support and you have to comb the desert to find the 1.69 patches: a nightmare to do if you're out of the loop. Meanwhile, NWN:EE is cross platform and accessible from Steam, Beamdog, the apple store, Google Play and other platforms like GoG. To prove the point, I downloaded NWN:EE onto my android phone and gave it a go. In comparison I can barely get 1.69 to work on my modern gaming PC. Its literally hanging on by a very glitchy, windowed-mode thread and that's with all the official patches from back in the day.

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"I'll think of something once Amia:EE drops."


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 19:51 PM 

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Galenson wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
(Also, arelith's move to EE was awful, rushed, untested, and still full of bugs, the only thing they gained was an influx of people. Don't think they made any massive technical gains. EE sucks ass. Be real, you're doing it for an expanded audience. You're not doing it for any technical improvements, because by and large, besides fixing the container bug, and NWSync, there's not much of any.)


Aaaaand there's the truth bomb. Glad to see you haven't changed.

There's no comparing the accessibility of the two after all. 1.69 is PC only, lacks official support and you have to comb the desert to find the 1.69 patches: a nightmare to do if you're out of the loop. Meanwhile, NWN:EE is cross platform and accessible from Steam, Beamdog, the apple store, Google Play and other platforms like GoG. To prove the point, I downloaded NWN:EE onto my android phone and gave it a go. In comparison I can barely get 1.69 to work on my modern gaming PC. Its literally hanging on by a very glitchy, windowed-mode thread and that's with all the official patches from back in the day.


I did suspect this as Beamdog took up the game. Sadly I noticed extreme lag on my old computer with this game, Odd. But it still got good points atleast. Like playerbase and official support to some degree with a ease to download hak system in the workshop on Steam.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Has gone to a better place.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Elyon
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 21:21 PM 



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My thoughts alone and not of the staff's.

I'm impartial to any or either options and will continue to support Amia no matter what happens, there are definite benefits to an apocalyptic story. As a DM it would open corners to create new plot, hooks and ideas and work with something different. I'd personally love to try something new. Though making the transition to EE in itself has always been a massive jump, and to change the story alongside that also means the dynamic of the server will adapt as we continue on a plan. Therefore, I do want to give a realistic sense of what that could potentially mean, and as long as the execution is right, we can come a long way.

We can make every contingency plan. We can have new staff make up for the growing playerbase. We can recruit more devs to work with the growing demand of 'new' things built/changed as the story changes on top of EE transition-related things. We can pool in all our efforts to work with what we have, admin and story wise and there's no doubt that it's going to be tougher as demand increases. Realistically, it means that as we tackle each issue during the transition period, our time will be spread thin. It comes with a risk that there will be less attention to the current and growing playerbase, individual (maintanence and story) and faction wise. It is going to require the upmost patience from everyone during the execution of it.

So as we're considering changing up the story, think about what it would mean to you as players. Risk of running long waiting period as your faction changes are made, or general requests, or DM oversight for example. Promise of generating your own RP and sharing it would others. Being thoughtful that attention will be spread thinner, as we focus on even more things. Logging on not just for events and sustaining the period. As much as we make contingency plans to mitigate/minimize risks, dangers, and loss, provide ideas to make the process efficient and convenient for all, provide measures to make Amia self-sustaining and an easier transition- a leap of faith is just that. We can have promises, but we can also have realities.

IMO, an apocalyptic story would be another thing that adds even more to the crackling oil. It would be a real test for everyone, DMs, dev and playerbase, to cooperate and make the period easier. Someone quoted 'strike whilst the iron is hot' not too long ago which I quite like, though I wonder if we're all capable of sustaining the heat and letting it pay off.

Regardless of whatever happens, I'll continue to support Amia as I'm sure many of the staff will.

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Kiasyd
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 21:32 PM 

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Elyon wrote:
Regardless of whatever happens, I'll continue to support Amia as I'm sure many of the staff will.

Kiasyd wrote:
However, I will support what the majority of the server wishes to see move forward.

+1
I will stick with what the server as a whole moves towards.

_________________
I play...

Ilharess Tal'afay Tinnerai of Eilistraee
Nithlyvia Shadowflame, Absent-Minded Spellblade


 
      
Guardian
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 21:41 PM 

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Now THAT is commitment. You go girls!

(feeling the same way, btw.)

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


 
      
Richard_Edmund
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 05 2019, 4:15 AM 

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Jes wrote:
And of course evil PCs and such would also still have areas like Demonreach or Wiltun. All of the areas will be on one server, also, so there's less of a mechanical divide.


I think you might have meant Tarkuul. Wiltun/Ruathym is firmly Neutral. 8)

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Cracked Red Eye Orb
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 05 2019, 6:18 AM 



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Joined: 24 Sep 2015

Whole new location please and thank you.


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 05 2019, 7:01 AM 

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Richard_Edmund wrote:
Jes wrote:
And of course evil PCs and such would also still have areas like Demonreach or Wiltun. All of the areas will be on one server, also, so there's less of a mechanical divide.


I think you might have meant Tarkuul. Wiltun/Ruathym is firmly Neutral. 8)

Demonreach = Evil
Wiltun = And such

But the point at that time was that there would be options still for non-good characters in the event of a partial island-wipe, too, as the Non-Arelith areas on A are mostly anti-evil. But yeah. Tarkuul, if you're into surrounding yourself with undead. :P

_________________
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Cromlech - The Best Copper This Side of Ruathym
Zelly Cys'dina - The Wounded Soul, Also Merchant

Aelynthi Nor'alei - The Bubbly Winged Elf


See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] The Voice


 
      
maglorine
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:32 AM 

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I voted for removal of Arelith areas and the Big Earth Shattering Kaboom. Mainly for reasons already expressed by others. We have Amia specific content that's unique and appealing as a base to work from and this is an apt moment to make a break from part of the server's history and forge a new path forward. Fresh start for some of my characters, at least the ones who survive :o .

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Yossarin
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 05 2019, 11:49 AM 



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I won't vote in the poll because I am not a player and I do not want to muddy the water there. But I do want to chime in as someone who invested time and creative energy in the community and say that I am pleased the team is contemplating this change. I will attest that even at the point that I became a DM in approximately 2005/2006, the server already had so much history built up both before and after the Arelith split that it was a challenge. Not an insurmountable challenge at the time, but later, when I started doing work on the developer side of the fence (which was more a joke than anything, I lacked the technical expertise to actually update anything on the server but just did creative thinktank/design work in the background) it became even clearer how the server's massive history had reached a point of disjointedness that was more limiting than it was liberating. Amia's playerbase is spread thin on the sprawling server, so it seems a good time for the community to stake a new claim. The greatest opportunity I see is for developers: the more extreme the change you have here, the more opportunity you have to rebuild the kind of server that you can then streamline for player enjoyment and interaction. You can place the setting more firmly into FR lore, you can more easily cede design influence to the playerbase because you no longer have such an overwhelming expectation to maintain a continuity that's older than some of the players, you can clean up bloated scripting, you can more easily have a single, united vision between developers and storytellers because you're all working from square one at the same time. Others have pointed out more benefits in this thread, but these are the ones that are the clearest to me from the way I think.

I share Tormak's opinion that the easiest way to achieve this is to wash away much of the Amian Isle, which is a combination of Arelith holdover material and non-canon FR material. Hint hint: I used the term wash away deliberately.

Only other thing that comes to mind that I feel should be shared is to take a look at how "apocalypse" events have been done in the past. There are lessons to be learned there and some missed opportunities to be had. I think it happened at least twice, and I was there for one of them.


 
      
Dunecat
 
PostPosted: Fri, Apr 05 2019, 16:49 PM 

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