View unanswered posts | View active topics * FAQ    * Search
* Login   * Register




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 115 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

What should we do IC with Amia EE?
1. Full Copy: leave all areas the same. 16%  16%  [ 16 ]
1. Partial Copy: remove Arelith references. 19%  19%  [ 19 ]
1. Full Wipe: remove all areas and start fresh. 15%  15%  [ 15 ]
2. No IC Change: don't remove Arelith references IC. 8%  8%  [ 8 ]
2. IC Retcon: just change the names without a story so it's easier. 9%  9%  [ 9 ]
2. IC Story: remove the areas via an apocalyptic story arc. 33%  33%  [ 33 ]
Total votes : 100
Jes
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 21:09 PM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

So!

We've come to a point where we're working diligently on getting Amia to EE. This has thus far involved setting it up on a new Linux server (courtesy of Tarnus), working out getting a fancy new website, carrying over scripts that will work, and even building new PRCs for the hak (thanks, Mav!). Alongside these cool changes, we also want to consider the IC nature of the move.

One concern that's come up is one that I think is fair to address. A lot of things in our server are references to things found on Arelith. Moving to EE would give us an opportunity to purge these references and give ourselves a fully independent identity. Given how big Arelith is in EE, I personally think this is an important factor to bear in mind - especially when considering the IC events that will lead up to the EE move.

Important NoteFor your further understanding, this is largely referring to about 85% of the main Amia isle. Cordor, Bendir Dale, Wharftown, Skull Crags, Guldorand, Benwick, Forest of Despair, and even the Bramble Woods - to name some of them. To remove Arelith references would be to basically get rid of the main Amian isle. It wouldn't really make sense to get rid of everything there except Kohlingen, Demonreach, and the Shrine (there are others, but very few in comparison). So treat a vote for getting rid of Arelith references as a vote for getting rid of the main isle as a whole.


So I have put together a poll for you guys! This was a discussion in the Amia Discord, and I thought I'd bring it here for a more open and formal response from the players. At the moment, we are not considering a character wipe. Players will (as of this post) be fully able to access their characters with the items/levels they have worked for. As such, this poll is ONLY regarding areas in the module.


What now?!

Vote on the poll! Then leave a comment here about your thoughts on the topic. You can pick two options, since the first set are what to do, and the second set are how to do it. Adding a post alongside your vote will hopefully keep spam/bots/whatever messing with the results to a minimum, as I'll be comparing them. If the poll is a disaster, we'll have the posts as a backup. Haha.

IMPORTANT: Choose TWO options in the poll - one for what to chop or not to chop (1); one for the method in which we do the former (2).


Voting Options:

1. Full Copy; leave all areas the same.Choose this if you think we shouldn't do anything IC and just carry areas over and continue business as usual after the move.

1. Partial Copy; remove Arelith references.Choose this if you think we should remove all Arelith references from the new EE module, but keep everything else.

1. Full Wipe: remove all areas and start fresh.Choose this if you think we should remove all areas and start with a fully clean slate, area-wise.

2. No IC Change: don't remove Arelith references IC.Choose this if you think we should just leave the Arelith references when we move to EE. This is the "Keep everything the same" option.

2. IC Retcon: just change the names without a story so it's easier.Choose this if you think we should just retcon the affected Arelith area names. This is the easier option.

2. IC Story: remove the areas via an apocalyptic story arc.Choose this if you think we should come up with a big apocalyptic story to go with the removal of the Arelith references and the move to EE. This is the more difficult option.




Thanks for reading and/or participating!

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
Guardian
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 21:24 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Location: The Sky Above The Rain.

Apocalypse!!

It opens so many options. We should not force players to perma their characters - period. But we really could use some massive overhaul of areas.

My vision is that of devastated land (meteor strike kind of devastation) and players setting up faction areas and building them from scratch. Aka - a bunch of peoples form a gang and take over ruins of Wharftown. DM assigned to that place will oversee they donate the appropriate sum of materials (we bring jobs back to this way) in order to rebuild the area to their liking.

If there is one thing I really, really... REALLY love about Arelith it's the way they made this possible. Tons of placable objects that are not destroyed by restart (but can be destroyed by other players) - the creativity is endless, and so are the possibilities. If we step in such fashion into the EE world I guarantee an influx of players.

Edit : Also, I think we should re-word and a bit loose up the PvP rules. As they are now, they really are unnecessarily strict and somewhat confusing even. In my opinion, a good ol' "Have a reason and use common sense." will work good enough, with an extra line to report griefing should it occur.

_________________
Mercadier - *sleeps six feet under the warm sands of Khem*
Alex - Life is adventure or nothing!
Eddie - Sex, drugs and rock'n... more sex.
=========
Obsidian (inactive)


 
      
Cratz
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:00 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 13 Mar 2009

I honestly don't care as long as it's not the apocalypse option.

_________________
I'm done. Goodbye.


 
      
The Little Dragon
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:06 PM 



Player

Joined: 08 Nov 2016

I couldn't agree more. Destroying the lore is going to close the door for a lot of old players. Amia was an offshoot of Arelith and always will be. It is part of its identity. We need to just say there was time taken and cordor most definately was rebuilt into a functional tarting city where once again, almost everyone starts.

I'm also going to say you can survive with these references. If you destroy places on the server you will destroy it identity. Build up the identity, create immersive areas. Encourage the placement of lore into the server. Honestly, I don't know much about the lore, however, rather than running away from it, you could instead create dialogue about the history of cordor and place it on every npc there to make the history feel more real. Personally. I think most of the people who want to destroy what we have now are just disgruntled and also most likely not playing on the server at the moment. There is a lot of hostility to consider with that.

_________________
"A master role player is one who is willing and able to bend their character concept to make the game more enjoyable for all involved. To assist the DM in making the game fun, and not to show discord."


 
      
elmmaster
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:21 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Location: In my own little world.

2. IC Retcon: just change the names without a story so it's easier.Choose this if you think we should just retcon the affected Arelith area names. This is the easier option.


We have so much history in Amia separate from Arelith, changing and building and customizing areas, it would be an absolute shame to lose all that work because another server has the same names. If the names are the problem fix the problem by changing the names.
While an apocalyptic story arch could be fun;
1) it means a ton more work for the DM/Dev team to make EE fit properly to the changes,
2) a ton more work player side to rebuild everything which in and of itself dictates what kind of rp people are going to be expected to participate in. not everybody likes post-apocalypse rp.
3) many of the features in a given area that a person may think of as their favorite bit of that area and their main reason for rp in that area, (ie religious centers, bathhouses, specific merchants, favored place to rp a meal, etc) may be wiped out and kill off a good deal of interest in coming back.

I feel that simply changing the name of the Arelith-like areas and minor tweaks to the given ares layouts should be more than enough to separate us from Arelith.

_________________
The Madness Behind
Clobberknocker Ivoryskull
(Click for Current Themesong)
Slangachduinn Garurtiejir


 
      
Kiasyd
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:22 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 21 Oct 2018
Location: Online

As mentioned in Discord, and now here, I personally would feel a bit gutted if 80%-ish of Amia [Island] was simply gone in an apocalypse. Would it be a good story? I think undoubtedly that it would be a great set of story arcs that could lead to character development and change.

But I don't see myself enjoying playing in it as much, really. The things that have been solid and true have brought me back to Amia from other servers over the years are tied to these places. I would rather not see them destroyed.

However, I do agree that there is a good reason to take out references to another quite popular server. We split and that's that. Do we want new players to come in and potentially see "A Copy of Arelith?" with all those recognizable names? [There are so many, look at the Arelith map if you have a chance]. Arelith which has been on EE for a while now and is high in player numbers, is now quite recognizable by the playing populace. I would rather not be the copy, despite the history Amia has had all these years bearing many same names.

I would prefer moving the areas and re-naming them, in short. However, I will support what the majority of the server wishes to see move forward.

_________________
I play...

Ilharess Tal'afay Tinnerai of Eilistraee
Nithlyvia Shadowflame, Absent-Minded Spellblade


Last edited by Kiasyd on Wed, Apr 03 2019, 23:00 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:27 PM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

If you're voting in the poll, remember to make a post about it. Tell us why you feel the way you do, so we know if we're getting legitimate votes and it's not just bots or something (guest bots are able to vote on this, I'm afraid). I'm more worried about bots than disgruntled players.


That said, I voted for the Partial/Apocalypse options because I'm a mean author. The idea of giving the server a running story, a theme, and a goal for the characters via taking back their homes after whatever disaster befell it would be extremely compelling to me. I also think that shaking things up and not keeping things at the current status quo would be great for interest and character growth.

To me, the Arelith references being removed are a side effect. But I do strongly believe that it would be a good idea to remove them. Not to slap server history. That history can still be told through the characters and the players, after all. But to give us a strong, individual identity, going into EE. Arelith is a monster in EE right now, dominating in pretty much every way - and I do think it would be best to differentiate from them, else we'll start the whole "You're just a clone of Arelith" thing again. But I am, of course, happy to take care of that with Apocalyptica or with a name retcon. This is why we posed the question to you guys, after all!

But that's my personal opinion, not the opinion of the staff!

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
A Majestic Dwarf
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:39 PM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Location: Wales

I Chose Apocalypse.

My Reasons for this are several fold.

First of all, whilst I recognize our roots in the server of Arelith, that was many years ago now. Before my time on the server at least, and I have been here over a decade. In that time, Amia has grown, and become more than just the product of a Schism, we have become our own thing and we have done our own thing. We have an ever growing identity. Arelith is much more established in the NWN EE community than we are. They have been there since the games release. They have a large player base, and I am sure many of their players who do not know the servers mutual histories will give our server a try if they fancy a change. If they see "Cordor" Upon logging in, it is possible that we will be seen as a pretender, a copy, a pale immitation. We would be in shadow, and I don't want this server to be seen as a copy, a pretender. I want this server to be seen as the vibrant and unique community that it has become, a special place, where I have met friends, met the love of my life and whiled away many hours creating stories with you guys.

Second, in my opinion the Status Quo needs a shake up. Whilst I have grown to love Amia Island, and its communities. Things tend to go in the same circles, and whilst still good, sometimes it feels that we are just going through the motions, staying to what feels "Safe" and "Normal." Seemingly Gone are the days of Banites taking over areas of land, seemingly gone are the days of vengeful seaborne attackers destroying villages or temples. I think we could do with a bit of a shake up, to create new stories, and to keep the server feeling Dynamic. Why not a big shake up to start off the new life in EE?

As for an Apocalypse..... I think at least one of my characters would die in such a Cataclysm. I guess Jes is rubbing off on me!

_________________
Avatar Picture from Brinawilliamson.com

Player of:
- Whurak Thunderhammer
King of Barak Runedar and all round Vengeful Dwarf
- Alvian Tegleiwalla
Nerdy Painter Elf with a Silly hat


 
      
lilmarcat
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:43 PM 



Developer

Joined: 27 Dec 2013

I pretty much agree with what Jes stated just above


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 22:57 PM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Location: Canada

Oops, I only clicked partial, but yes. Partial/Apocalypse. Though I am not one-hundred percent sure about it. Aurora and Jes summed it up. I'd type more if I wasn't busy right now.

_________________
Devlin Faramond - Warrior Priest of Tempus
Sorina Farhearth - Bendir Dale Militia
Kyrathyl Vostyra - Cordorian Guard
Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple


 
      
Duskryn
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 23:08 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Monterey, CA

Full apocalypse story arc would be cool, maybe have tarkuul and kkhlighen damn near destroy each other. Maybe a Darkhold or Wyrmhold revival.

_________________
"You are still willing to do these things? After all he is your father."

"And he is your Lord Husband. If there is a difference, please explain it to me...."


 
      
Kiasyd
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 23:39 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 21 Oct 2018
Location: Online

For reference:

Image[/url]

_________________
I play...

Ilharess Tal'afay Tinnerai of Eilistraee
Nithlyvia Shadowflame, Absent-Minded Spellblade


 
      
Revak
 
PostPosted: Wed, Apr 03 2019, 23:44 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Location: Inside a Magic Bag full of True Strike Potions

I chose Apocalypse option.

Main reason: Amia for the last few years has felt like a museum of the server. There's not been any massive area changes (excluding the addition of Demonreach and a few redesigns of older areas) and honestly feels like this chapter in Amia's history is complete. The BBEG has been beaten, peace is more or less the norm for the island these days and Good largely controls the island. What the server needs now is a refresh of it's current state, throw the island into chaos and give the opportunity for people to react or take advantage of the upheaval. The loss of older areas can always make room for newer groups to begin anew.

Alternatively as I suggested in the Discord, if the apocalypse scenario is the most favoured, we could have an "Amian Retreat". Whilst not all the population survives it ends up as a large refugee flotilla ending up in the Moonshaes, given that we've had several plots over the years focused in that area. Always some good options with that also: an abandoned dwarven outpost now converted into a refuge for those looking for a new home, a fertile and empty land just waiting for the touch of civilisation etc.

Only thing i'd argue is that people should be allowed to retain their current characters rather than vault wipe (as many have agreed upon in the Discord already).

_________________
Image
Thanks, Boots!


Rarely seen as:
T'riss'ace - Xas!
Philip Grey - The Fury!


 
      
Carent Marlo
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:05 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 12 Jun 2018
Location: Wales UK

I voted keep everything as it is and find it slightly worrying that any other options are being considered.


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:09 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Carent Marlo wrote:
I voted keep everything as it is and find it slightly worrying that any other options are being considered.


Nothing to worry about I think, if the concern is perma death. I do not think that is to worry about. Even if I myself probably would like that option to clean slate Amia : EE.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:16 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

I voted for the apocalyptic story arch because I know Amia island almost as well as my pocket, for me it's gotten very stale as there's not much for me to discover. Also since Arelith is apparently a big part of NWN EE already, I thought a new setting would be a good way to set us apart as well as catching the attention of former players.

For the same reason I voted for the full wipe. It comes with a new setting/island anyway.

_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition


 
      
Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:18 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Carent Marlo wrote:
I voted keep everything as it is and find it slightly worrying that any other options are being considered.


This isn't about a wipe of PC characters, but a wipe of the setting.

_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:23 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

I said this on Discord, but I'll say it here, too:


My proposal was originally written the way it was (wiping all of Amia island) because I felt it wouldn't be fair to blow up only the places with Arelith names and leave Kohlingen and other areas I am personally biased toward. However, if it's wanted, we could have a middle-ground where the non-Arelith areas act as fortifications against whatever bad thing has happened. Where places like Kohlingen, the Shrine, Oakmist Vale - anywhere without the Arelith tag - can stand against whatever the "apocalypse" arc brings, giving other refugees a foothold on the isle for fighting against it to reclaim/rebuild their homes that were destroyed.

This can still allow us to stretch out the rebuilding so we don't have to wait so long to release EE. I know I didn't explain the backend part of this very well, but limiting the number of areas to 400-ish instead of the current 772 would speed up the release date, and allow us to take our time with re-introducing a redesigned Amia island built on player efforts. It wouldn't be a permanent destruction, but a temporary one to make the Devs' lives easier and let us have EE sooner.

That is my personal proposal!

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
elmmaster
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:40 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 25 Oct 2008
Location: In my own little world.

I still think rp leading to name changes would be best, however the apocalypse idea has a lot of great potential with the latest clarification.

Jes wrote:
My proposal was originally written the way it was (wiping all of Amia island) because I felt it wouldn't be fair to blow up only the places with Arelith names and leave Kohlingen and other areas I am personally biased toward. However, if it's wanted, we could have a middle-ground where the non-Arelith areas act as fortifications against whatever bad thing has happened. Where places like Kohlingen, the Shrine, Oakmist Vale - anywhere without the Arelith tag - can stand against whatever the "apocalypse" arc brings, giving other refugees a foothold on the isle for fighting against it to reclaim/rebuild their homes that were destroyed.

This can still allow us to stretch out the rebuilding so we don't have to wait so long to release EE. I know I didn't explain the backend part of this very well, but limiting the number of areas to 400-ish instead of the current 772 would speed up the release date, and allow us to take our time with re-introducing a redesigned Amia island built on player efforts. It wouldn't be a permanent destruction, but a temporary one to make the Devs' lives easier and let us have EE sooner.


If that was in the voting options I would have opted for that. Only blowing up the Arelith tagged places, causing damage to surrounding places as fallout but not blowing them up, then allowing the slow rebuild and renaming of areas, is really an ideal fix. I would only ask that the job system be included in EE as soon as possible to help with the rp of collecting and processing building materials and rebuilding.

_________________
The Madness Behind
Clobberknocker Ivoryskull
(Click for Current Themesong)
Slangachduinn Garurtiejir


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:47 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Well, if we're unable to get the Job System up and running for some reason, I can't see us holding it against anyone for the purposes of rebuilding RP. Don't worry about that part! We've got some really enthusiastic people both Player- and DM-side, and we're eager to work out the best way to move forward.


Thanks for all your input so far, everyone!

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:50 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

elmmaster wrote:
I still think rp leading to name changes would be best, however the apocalypse idea has a lot of great potential with the latest clarification.

Jes wrote:
My proposal was originally written the way it was (wiping all of Amia island) because I felt it wouldn't be fair to blow up only the places with Arelith names and leave Kohlingen and other areas I am personally biased toward. However, if it's wanted, we could have a middle-ground where the non-Arelith areas act as fortifications against whatever bad thing has happened. Where places like Kohlingen, the Shrine, Oakmist Vale - anywhere without the Arelith tag - can stand against whatever the "apocalypse" arc brings, giving other refugees a foothold on the isle for fighting against it to reclaim/rebuild their homes that were destroyed.

This can still allow us to stretch out the rebuilding so we don't have to wait so long to release EE. I know I didn't explain the backend part of this very well, but limiting the number of areas to 400-ish instead of the current 772 would speed up the release date, and allow us to take our time with re-introducing a redesigned Amia island built on player efforts. It wouldn't be a permanent destruction, but a temporary one to make the Devs' lives easier and let us have EE sooner.


If that was in the voting options I would have opted for that. Only blowing up the Arelith tagged places, causing damage to surrounding places as fallout but not blowing them up, then allowing the slow rebuild and renaming of areas, is really an ideal fix. I would only ask that the job system be included in EE as soon as possible to help with the rp of collecting and processing building materials and rebuilding.


There is no reason to rename a town or region after rebuilding. Hiroshima got nuked, it is still called Hiroshima, Dresden got firebombed, still called Dresden. A total destruction of some regions because of natural disasters or an Amnite vengeance or something, be a proper good reset button to press to do something new and reshape things into something else. Hell, Amia could become a bunch of minor islands in some regions where you need to go by boats between them. That be cool.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Zafriah
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 0:58 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 May 2006
Location: Australia

Jes wrote:
...
so we don't have to wait so long to release EE. …


It wouldn't be a permanent destruction, but a temporary one to make the Devs' lives easier and let us have EE sooner.


This. I voted for keeping changes IC and removing Arelith areas, but over all, it needs to be something that is timely and doable. (Basically, I think there is no point in arguing for something if it's just not possible to make happen.) I'd be completely okay with all new areas and starting from scratch, but given there is a large amount of players who want the old Amia, so I'm okay with salvaging whatever areas we can get working to be brought over.

_________________
Cassie - Cheerful, glitter obsessed fey
Nada - Tomboy monk
Samina - Druid, still finding her way


 
      
Kiasyd
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:06 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 21 Oct 2018
Location: Online

Many cities were renamed over the course of history. Constantinople / Istanbul is an example. So no, they do not automatically rename to the old name, they can be changed if the people of the area want them to.

A major point many people are interested in was more to change the existing Arelith-based names kept from the schism so that the server would not seem be an "Arelith Copy" to new EE player. Which this new option Jes has listed would make possible while not completely wiping out all the old slate that players have worked towards that are distinctly Amian, such as Kohlingen, Salandran Temple, etc.

I agree with elmmaster here, that this option ... that of an IC partial loss of the main Isle areas bearing those names while keeping Bastions of Hope such as Kohlingen and the Shrine and others ... is a lot less gut wrenching. It is something I could get more behind.

_________________
I play...

Ilharess Tal'afay Tinnerai of Eilistraee
Nithlyvia Shadowflame, Absent-Minded Spellblade


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:21 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

And of course evil PCs and such would also still have areas like Demonreach or Wiltun. All of the areas will be on one server, also, so there's less of a mechanical divide.

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:29 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Kiasyd wrote:
Many cities were renamed over the course of history. Constantinople / Istanbul is an example. So no, they do not automatically rename to the old name, they can be changed if the people of the area want them to.

A major point many people are interested in was more to change the existing Arelith-based names kept from the schism so that the server would not seem be an "Arelith Copy" to new EE player. Which this new option Jes has listed would make possible while not completely wiping out all the old slate that players have worked towards that are distinctly Amian, such as Kohlingen, Salandran Temple, etc.

I agree with elmmaster here, that this option ... that of an IC partial loss of the main Isle areas bearing those names while keeping Bastions of Hope such as Kohlingen and the Shrine and others ... is a lot less gut wrenching. It is something I could get more behind.


Yes, Constantinople changed name because of conquest (Even if the Ottomans did swap it around a few times!), big difference. And every single Arelith place changing name is a bit over the top. I think we should embrace our history on Amia. Not shun it. What is gut wrenching with Bendir Dale for example? I do not see the problem at all. Amia and Arelith are seperated from each others but both gone their own way, made their own thing out of the heritage they both have from the same origin. I see nothing wrong with it.

Quote:
And of course evil PCs and such would also still have areas like Demonreach or Wiltun. All of the areas will be on one server, also, so there's less of a mechanical divide.


Arelith got like 3, I do not think servers would be an issue. Either way! Mechanically it is easier.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:36 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Quote:
Yes, Constantinople changed name because of conquest (Even if the Ottomans did swap it around a few times!), big difference. And every single Arelith place changing name is a bit over the top. I think we should embrace our history on Amia. Not shun it. What is gut wrenching with Bendir Dale for example? I do not see the problem at all. Amia and Arelith are seperated from each others but both gone their own way, made their own thing out of the heritage they both have from the same origin. I see nothing wrong with it.


There's no problem with the names themselves, but they are used in Arelith which is already (apparently) a popular server on NWN EE. When Amia goes EE we don't want to come off as an Arelith knockoff, and original names would go a far way.

_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:42 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Shadowfiend wrote:
Quote:
Yes, Constantinople changed name because of conquest (Even if the Ottomans did swap it around a few times!), big difference. And every single Arelith place changing name is a bit over the top. I think we should embrace our history on Amia. Not shun it. What is gut wrenching with Bendir Dale for example? I do not see the problem at all. Amia and Arelith are seperated from each others but both gone their own way, made their own thing out of the heritage they both have from the same origin. I see nothing wrong with it.


There's no problem with the names themselves, but they are used in Arelith which is already (apparently) a popular server on NWN EE. When Amia goes EE we don't want to come off as an Arelith knockoff, and original names would go a far way.


That is part of Amias history, never ever been an problem.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Kiasyd
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:48 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 21 Oct 2018
Location: Online

Budly wrote:
Kiasyd wrote:

Yes, Constantinople changed name because of conquest (Even if the Ottomans did swap it around a few times!), big difference. And every single Arelith place changing name is a bit over the top. I think we should embrace our history on Amia. Not shun it. What is gut wrenching with Bendir Dale for example? I do not see the problem at all. Amia and Arelith are seperated from each others but both gone their own way, made their own thing out of the heritage they both have from the same origin. I see nothing wrong with it.


Since you quoted me when you asked that: What is gut-wrenching is my own personal reaction to places I "grew up" roleplaying in being taken out in some IC Apocalyptic event, the same areas that kept me coming back year after year. I'm sorry... but it wasn't really the characters that brought me back, but the places and some of the players. As I mentioned in my original post, that is my own personal feelings on it; not really open for debate, since everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. I know other people view it differently, and that is right and good and I respect their stances, but that is how I feel.

As for the reasons why many people are wanting the change to finally cut the apron-strings from Arelith is simple. We are moving into EE to help keep the server alive by bringing in new players [and the old ones who have already converted to EE]. When we transition to EE ... where Arelith is currently an already established headliner ... and have players come to our 'newer' server and see the same names and such, we can easily be viewed as "a copy-cat". As Aurora termed, "a pretender".

Are we? No we are not, but most people coming into the server, newbies who just got the Game? They wouldn't know our history, that we came to be from a schism from Arelith. The history wouldn't be there, only the impression of a new player seeing the same names on the new kid on the EE block. And I can see why a lot of us would like to move away from that, and continue to grow as Amia. The EE conversion makes it an ideal time for this.

I think that if we keep the specifically Amian areas such as Kohlingen, Deamonreach, Salandra Temple, Tarkull, etc... we will be preserving things that are Amian at the core, while as Jes noted, making the move to EE easier and less time-consuming by taking those other areas out.

_________________
I play...

Ilharess Tal'afay Tinnerai of Eilistraee
Nithlyvia Shadowflame, Absent-Minded Spellblade


 
      
PuresoulX2
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:51 AM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Location: Canada

I didn't vote for this, but I am perfectly fine with Full Copy should that be the choice. Really most of the choices I can work with.

_________________
Devlin Faramond - Warrior Priest of Tempus
Sorina Farhearth - Bendir Dale Militia
Kyrathyl Vostyra - Cordorian Guard
Aithne Ryrathrak - Red Dragon Disciple


Last edited by PuresoulX2 on Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:53 AM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 1:53 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Kiasyd wrote:
Budly wrote:
Kiasyd wrote:

Yes, Constantinople changed name because of conquest (Even if the Ottomans did swap it around a few times!), big difference. And every single Arelith place changing name is a bit over the top. I think we should embrace our history on Amia. Not shun it. What is gut wrenching with Bendir Dale for example? I do not see the problem at all. Amia and Arelith are seperated from each others but both gone their own way, made their own thing out of the heritage they both have from the same origin. I see nothing wrong with it.


Since you quoted me when you asked that: What is gut-wrenching is my own personal reaction to places I "grew up" roleplaying in being taken out in some IC Apocalyptic event, the same areas that kept me coming back year after year. I'm sorry... but it wasn't really the characters that brought me back, but the places and some of the players. As I mentioned in my original post, that is my own personal feelings on it; not really open for debate, since everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions. I know other people view it differently, and that is right and good and I respect their stances, but that is how I feel.

As for the reasons why many people are wanting the change to finally cut the apron-strings from Arelith is simple. We are moving into EE to help keep the server alive by bringing in new players [and the old ones who have already converted to EE]. When we transition to EE ... where Arelith is currently an already established headliner ... and have players come to our 'newer' server and see the same names and such, we can easily be viewed as "a copy-cat". As Aurora termed, "a pretender".

Are we? No we are not, but most people coming into the server, newbies who just got the Game? They wouldn't know our history, that we came to be from a schism from Arelith. The history wouldn't be there, only the impression of a new player seeing the same names on the new kid on the EE block. And I can see why a lot of us would like to move away from that, and continue to grow as Amia. The EE conversion makes it an ideal time for this.

I think that if we keep the specifically Amian areas such as Kohlingen, Deamonreach, Salandra Temple, Tarkull, etc... we will be preserving things that are Amian at the core, while as Jes noted, making the move to EE easier and less time-consuming by taking those other areas out.


I studied to much history to just let it slide, one should never shun ones history but embrace it. We can teach people the history of Amia.

Personal opinions, sure. That is fully understandable. But sometimes it is hard to keep something alive without shaking it up. I think we can either choice between seeing Amia for what it was, bury it and be nostalgic or be nostalgic an reshape it. Im a very nostalgic person myself so I see what you mean, The Amia I miss is the Amia before the big changes. Old Shrine, Old Winya, Old Cordor, Old Kohlingen. Thats not coming back :(

Either way. I gonna let this be for now. Nostalgia or not, Amia EE is in the making and we see how it ends up.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 2:03 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 22 Jul 2015
Location: Lincolnshire, United Kingdom

I haven't voted yet, i can't given that i don't actually know enough to cast a meaningful vote and be happy with it. Much like an election i like to actually know about the person i'm voting for. I keep seeing this 'remove what is Arelith' all the time but i'd like to know, EXACTLY, which areas are tagged as being Arelith. I'm not talking a cut down list with 'oh this area, oh that area and places seldom visited' but an actual list. I haven't been on this server long enough to know everything about it and i haven't been here in the good old days when everyone on here hated everyone over there... so please humour me so i can make an informed choice.

I can see both sides of this but i don't think you should just whitewash over every little thing, just because.

_________________
When it rains, look for rainbows.
When it's dark, look for stars.


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 2:13 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Well, I can't promise to have it in me to write up all specific areas (hundreds of them...), but Kiasyd posted a map that shows which areas are affected. We're not whitewashing. We're getting an idea of what people think of the idea as a whole.

If after looking at the Arelith map, you still want an itemized list, well... I just don't have time for that. Regions listed in the map should be good enough to show you which areas are affected.

Unless someone else wants to list the regions out that are on the map and also in our module! I gotta get to bed right now.

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 2:24 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

I just checked the map. That is a LOT of places to rename. Literal whole mountain regions will be blown away and replace or just renamed for no apperent reason. BLOWING UP a whole mountain region is a tremendous task we cannot even do in our time. And then replacing it with a new mountain pass named Skull Peaks or something?

Amia forest is just Arelith Forest with another name.

Bendir Dale! ;( Nooo. Either way. I hope we do not do this but thats my opinion.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
MightNMagic
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 5:05 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Location: Space Australia

I see no vote to NOT go to EE because EE is traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash.

All the areas will just *look worse* and we'll go to randomly crashing several times a day. Yuck.

_________________
Rashad the Azure, Zakharan Merchant-lord Most Fair and Master of the Desert Wind
Loremaster Tukson Devers, Oghmanyte Wrestler of Knowledge and Child of the Passive Voice

(No tells for Rashad while I'm playing other characters please.)


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 5:06 AM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 17 Dec 2015

I personally voted for the post apocalyptic route for several reasons.

The most evident of which is the relation to Arelith. Whilst most as individual players may not see the relevance as per individual contact, for people in administration and/or the development team it becomes a vastly crucial issue to be discussed when you talk about public relations with the rest of the community in EE. ESPECIALLY people that have never even touched 1.69. Given that the games primary site for a lot of new players is on steam means that most people using steam more than likely have never touched 1.69.

So the fact that Amia is a branch off of the community from Arelith many years ago is not known and quite frankly has no way of being known as soon as someone joins on the server. New players do not even have the opportunity to talk to any NPCs before the map name comes up when they start a new character on a server.

This means that new people are not going to see: "This NPC explains this elaborative history, this makes sense"

Most people will look at the loading screen of Cordor for two seconds and think: "Oh this is just a smaller copy of Arelith. Why would I want to play here?" And they will disconnect from the server without any oppurtunity for things to be explained otherwise. Despite what I'd like to think that's how people are. Most people take things at face value and immediately judge a book by it's cover.

Over long term this will heavily influence player rates and the amount of people that stay and the amount of people that go over-time. This is known as public relations. Which when you are considering sparking activity on a server is a 'vital' thing that needs to be considered. So things should be changed so that more people will stay on the server and we lack the need to confront these issues we have already dealt with in the past on 1.69 on EE.

And the reason I support the apocalyptic event instead of a total wipe and starting fresh is quite simply IC justification. The biggest concern most people have with things changing is feeling like everything they have done for years amounts to nothing at the end of the rainbow. So when things change for an IC justifiable reason it allows for that vast amount of history to still heavily influence the server and how it shapes in the future.

Given that the epitome of roleplay is to promote change over extended periods of time, otherwise known as character/setting development having change pushed through roleplay versus just vanishing in the air seems like a vastly more reasonable and comfortable thing to do. For everyone involved.

Also the fact that stuff being ICly changed over time with collaboration between the DM-staff, the Amia Developement Team, and the playerbase will bridge the gap that a lot have been feeling between the community and the administration over the last little while and bring people back to actively doing things and communicating happily with one another on an everyday basis.

Not only that but that collaboration being done overtime as the server develops through roleplay will allow stuff to naturally be done overtime and as such put less of a strain in the Devs and DM-staff and allow us to port to EE even faster than if we were to wish to simply 'rebuild' the module or do other various things as well.

And my final reason as Revak said is the fact that peace is the ultimum for things around the server and things don't get really changed or 'threatened' anymore. And new players that come upon the server and have aspirations to build factions, towns, cities, settlements, organisations, et cetera kindof get pushed in the back of the scenes as the people that have been around for years and have a lot of pull and resources on the server as these big things take up a lot of the attention and control. Making it difficult for new and different roleplay to thrive. So new players loose interest/patience with trying to push new things rather aptly when famous/old/big groups take the forefront of the attention.

I think something like an ICly justified apocalyptic event that grounds a lot of those big areas but still retains the history and mark of their presence is the perfect balance of having old things effect current events and allowing new things for a new community to grow freely and promote that growth as a community.

So all of these things: Public relations, growth of Roleplay for new members of the community, past histories not vanishing from the canon, the ability to rebuild old groups and concepts still from the ground up and not making them disappear, ease of work for the administration/dev teams and other things are reasons I think the post apoc IC outcome is the best out of the choices and why I personally voted for that choice.

_________________
Arieme - Condemned Blighter and anti-druid
Khristina - Bounty Hunter, Blessed of Hoar


 
      
Shadowfiend
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 6:31 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: The Hall of the Mountain King

Quote:
And the reason I support the apocalyptic event instead of a total wipe and starting fresh is quite simply IC justification.


Amia was destroyed in an apocalyptic event and the people had to escape elsewhere. That's my interpretation of how a total wipe could be done.

I think Jes raises a valid point about how it would be a bit odd if only the areas with a tie to Arelith were touched.

_________________
I am not weird, I am limited edition


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 6:32 AM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 17 Dec 2015

they wouldn't be, however. They would be touched. They just would not be totaled. There is a distinctive difference. It's not like some would come out scrape free and others would be killed. Everyone would ideally be maimed in some form or another. The levels vastly depending on what and how it is written. Anything that could effect things on all sides of the island would generally effect everything to some degree or another.


An example for something like Kohligen could be: Let's say a meator shower or an earthquake hit the whole island of Amia. There would have to be funds and things of that nature that may have to potentially go into repairs and other various things or some things may be pushed to be rebuilt in some areas and left alone in others.

Smaller places like cliffside would be effected by economical trade with various places in the island.

These are just two examples of ways things could change.

Things will not be unchanged just because they don't get destroyed.


It's not a: Some thing would be totaled and others would look and act as if nothing ever happened. Every place and everyone would be effected ICly in varying ways. Some good, some bad, some just. To think of it as a binary outcome as 100% fine or 100% destroyed is not wholesomely accurate imho.

_________________
Arieme - Condemned Blighter and anti-druid
Khristina - Bounty Hunter, Blessed of Hoar


 
      
Galenson
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 6:40 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Galenson wrote:

Amia is simply too big, and its size has been turning against it for some time. The more you stretch the playerbase, the less interaction there is. The larger the server is to watch over, the more thinly the DMs are stretched too. Amia as a server NEEDS DMs to push it forward because player initiatives in a sandbox when they can only view the sand through the glass lid can only go so far. On the flipside, the DMs NEED players to play in the sand when they lift the glass lid otherwise their plots are pointless. Both elements being stretched is a lose-lose situation.

The answer to this I think lies in the past:

[*] In addition to porting across to Neverwinter Nights: Enhanced Edition, the server needs to trim the fat and get smaller again. Less is more.


I said this statement in the levelling problem thread and I would be a hypocrite if I went against my word.

I believe the server needs to be smaller and more compact. I also believe a port over to NWN:EE is the best way to achieve this.

However, I also have a very long history on this server as highlighted in this thread and fully understand the loss of letting it all go.

Angelis96 wrote:
I personally voted for the post apocalyptic route for several reasons.

The most evident of which is the relation to Arelith. Whilst most as individual players may not see the relevance as per individual contact, for people in administration and/or the development team it becomes a vastly crucial issue to be discussed when you talk about public relations with the rest of the community in EE. ESPECIALLY people that have never even touched 1.69. Given that the games primary site for a lot of new players is on steam means that most people using steam more than likely have never touched 1.69.

So the fact that Amia is a branch off of the community from Arelith many years ago is not known and quite frankly has no way of being known as soon as someone joins on the server. New players do not even have the opportunity to talk to any NPCs before the map name comes up when they start a new character on a server.

This means that new people are not going to see: "This NPC explains this elaborative history, this makes sense"

Most people will look at the loading screen of Cordor for two seconds and think: "Oh this is just a smaller copy of Arelith. Why would I want to play here?" And they will disconnect from the server without any oppurtunity for things to be explained otherwise. Despite what I'd like to think that's how people are. Most people take things at face value and immediately judge a book by it's cover.


I also think that the above statement by Angelis96 is an extremely valid point that cannot be ignored either. The split from Arelith occurred 15 years ago...ish. Some returning veterans coming back to NWN:EE may remember the split, some may have even been involved in it, but 95% of the modern playerbase won't know or care of it. I myself don't really know (or care) much about the split other then it happened: its history, just like the majority of the founders who split in the first place.

By keeping the Arelith related areas, it will repel some players and attract others as it always has with most players here being transient between the two servers at some point. However, with Arelith having such a substantial lead in NWN:EE, I feel that Amia coming to NWN:EE with a bang and people going "wait, this server split back in the day from Arelith? Why?" It might bring back some issues and rivalries best left in the past. With Arelith also being Beamdog's poster boy for persistent world servers, it could also lead to some IP clashes if people desired to push it, even with the two server's histories.

On the flipside, if you were to destroy those areas (ie the main Amian Isle, Brogdenstein etc), you fully establish the server as its own identity rather then an off-shoot identity at the risk of losing the history and possibly some of the players who weren't happy with this.

Me personally? As much as I'd love an apocalyptic event to reshape Amia, I don't think its the right way forward. I think there is a middle ground that can achieve both aims of keeping the nostalgia all the while establishing an identity:

Leave Amia as "that distant isle." Focus instead on Caraigh.

My reasons for suggesting this include:

  • Caraigh is said to be as big as the Amian Isle after all, and is far less tamed then the Amian Isle giving that sense of new world discovery.

  • This "new world approach" could appeal to the release schedule of the designers and developers, releasing new content, dungeons and hunting grounds as they are "discovered." I don't expect brand new monsters, considering that goblins and trolls are the same wherever you go, but it would allow the designers and developers to give them a "fresh" new look or challenge.

  • If Caraigh is the new "Amian Isle" then the Frozenfar and Forstakkr slot in as the lower / mid-level hunting areas nicely until Caraigh is further developed.

  • You could then make changes to the Underdark to shrink its size and better amalgamate it with Caraigh and the Frozenfar to share areas similar to how Ultrinnan was linked to the Amian Isle through the underground network.

  • Cordor, Kohlingen and Tarkuul can then be the distant colonial powers staking their claims on the "new world." You can then either port them across without the Amian Isle or leave them as a reference in the background. This keeps the nostalgia, makes the work of old or returning characters relevant and not wasted and still keeps links to the server's origins whilst fully acknowledging that its gone in its own direction.

  • You could even use a smaller part of Cordor as a starting point tutorial for new characters and players. It could include the Speedy's service, a chance for new characters to equip themselves and learn of some of the server's mechanics / rules before departing to "the new world." This allows references to the server history, acknowledging the split from Arelith, the bigger events that occurred throughout Amia's history and that Amia was moving forward from its starting point as well as from 1.69 to NWN:EE.

  • Other distinctive Amian elements such as the Salandrans can be moved across too. As a long time Salandran, I can accept losing the Salandran Temple if the Salandrans received a shrine or small chapel in another established city / place which references "the distant temple back on Amia." For some players this won't be adequate for their relevant contexts, but for me its enough to spark that nostalgia all the while accepting the new. And most importantly,

  • Caraigh is already there. It means less development for the designers / developers then starting completely from scratch.

So in light my above comments, I'm all for change. But, I don't think the apocalypse is the best way forward when there are better alternatives that achieve all of the aims.

My vote is remove the areas, but keep the references to them to appeal to the nostalgia. I'm not against a bit of an incentive to leave the Amian Isle for "the new world" if the plotline pushes forward though.

_________________
Plays:

- Jhaeliria D'Vilrath: The Twisting Witch. Noble Daughter of House Vilrath, and gifted Illusionist

- The Scholar: Malignancy of the mind, corrupter of the spirit. The Great Game Changer

- Jack Galenson: House MD of Amia, but grumpier


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 9:23 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Okay, I have a moment that I can post this here before my busy day begins!

Regions affected:

Cordor
Bendir Dale
Bramble Woods
Lowland Swamps
Bitter Coast
Bloodmoon
Forest of Despair
Wharftown
Guldorand
Skull Crags
Glorag Murr
Benwick
Minmir
Crystal Caves
Brogendenstein


The way it would work (in my mind) would be simple enough. Some of these names are generic enough that they could just be changed without much of a problem. Even Brogendenstein has an IC lead-up already for changing the name of the isle to the Kingdom of Barak Runedar (or just Barak Runedar). And that would give the dwarf players a nice avenue of RP with their efforts to claim the rest of the isle.

The "apocalyptic" answer would be an IC way to justify the names being changed everywhere else, and serve both to give us time to rebuild the server to EE and to avoid just handwaving a name retcon that would undoubtedly be messy. Doing it IC like this will allow us to cut down on the time we need to carry everything to EE. Otherwise, just waiting till everything is switched over and name-changed and tweaked (all 722 areas) will just make us have to push back release to 2020 or longer.

So most likely Amia EE will have a vast number of areas pruned anyway. Doing it with a story to go with it, and taking the opportunity to avoid clashing with Arelith (and Beamdog, as Angelis pointed out), is the least messy way to do it. And all areas can be re-introduced with a new name later pending IC efforts. This gives everyone a drive, a goal, even if it's only as support for those more directly affected. Otherwise, areas not being accessible will just have an arbitrary "Sorry, you can't go here yet but there's no IC reason for it."

Anything not named above wouldn't be fully destroyed, anyway, but affected by whatever happens, with the middle-ground I proposed. Examples: Salandran Temple, Kohlingen, Demonreach, Quagmires, Shrine of Eilistraee, Winya Ravana... Mostly the areas on the northern part of the island. Which could work out well, in fact.

----

As for your suggestion, Galenson, I can't support that personally because there's no IC reason for people leaving Amia and exploring the "new world" of Caraigh. Why would our current characters suddenly do this, unless there was an apocalyptic reason pushing them? And even then... why would they then abandon the isle and not try to take it back/rebuild?

We want current characters and their present efforts to be important. With the proposed plot, they can react to their homes or neighbors being destroyed and not have to worry about sudden personality changes where they feel the need to leave their homes and become colonial explorers. None of my characters presently would do something like that. >.>

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
CautiousDread
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:13 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Location: London - England

I voted for destruction as it would mean that we can get some breathing room for the Devs and generally change a lot of things that have gone stagnate.
Also gives us a chance as Players/DM's to work towards creating things that we've wanted to do in the server but haven't really had the chance as well as shrink the server a bit to have more people accidentally running into one another.

Also, just enjoy the idea of something horrific happening to our characters.

_________________
Sali Aphaeleon - Keeper Captain Image

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move"

Sprite by Raua


 
      
TormakSaber
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:29 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

If you're going apocalpyse my earnest suggestion is nuke the entire island. Spare nothing. Reform the server around Ruathym, Caraigh, and the Moonshaes. Use Tarkuul to spark the apocalypse, it's had the buildup for a RL decade. Keep the Frozenfar and Ne'sek stuff.

Don't leave Kohlingen and the North. Which existed/has existed on Arelith, btw, so if you're concerned about references, you're stuck with that one too. Or at least, not untouched. Blow them up too. Give it an entirely new existence, if this is what's going to happen. Winya is w/e.

If you really want to remove yourselves from Arelith, then you need to remove what is and was Arelith. And that's Amia Island, in its entirety. Port over the setting bits you really wanted to keep, like (for example) a bastion leftover from Kohl renamed and now on Battle Island (RIP Monolith). A Salandran detachment in Caraigh (it really does make sense, don't you think?) and so on. Flesh out some more of the Ruathym islands, and make that your new setting.

_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:30 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

I see one big problem. What about historical documents and books? They would still mention Bendir Dale and old Arelith names unless we do a ooc retcon.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Raphel Gray
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:35 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Location: United Kingdom

Woo! Awful mayhem and destruction!

The chance to start afresh and to remove less traveled areas would be a good thing, and may even lure ex players back to explore and have a second or third or Nth wind to playing on Amia (Or Not Amia, if the Island is completely destroyed)
I am entirely in agreement with reducing the size of the server, in terms of civilized areas. Even reducing the number of hunting areas would likely be a good start, that way the Dev team can introduce new places over time with plots and the like. Areas that wouldn't make much sense to just erase from memory and time could just be re-named to a more general area name through story or conquered by a threat, and thus have it's name and parts of its typography changed.
I am also for the idea of just watching the world serpent awaken and swallow the island whole, or some other complete destruction arc. Which can claim countless lives and gives players reason to finish character stories if they so desire. Though only a partial destruction would work for me too, ideally It'd be nice to see the rise of a bad guy or several bad guys for team good to slay, in the aftermath as adversity intrigue breed Drama and drama is one of the main food groups of RPers.

_________________
I play:
Nightingale - Tiefling Master Thief
Evelyn Mireka - Sorceress
Emrhys Landray - Cleric of Torm


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:57 AM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 17 Dec 2015

Budly wrote:
I see one big problem. What about historical documents and books? They would still mention Bendir Dale and old Arelith names unless we do a ooc retcon.


This doesn't effect anything as far as I know as the areas are still part of the island's history and canon. they just aren't physically represented as landmarks on the server anymore. The whole point of looking towards an IC cataclysmic event is to keep the IC canon these areas have left on the server as well as the people within it. So the fact that the books are there is actually part of the idea.

_________________
Arieme - Condemned Blighter and anti-druid
Khristina - Bounty Hunter, Blessed of Hoar


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 10:58 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Angelis96 wrote:
Budly wrote:
I see one big problem. What about historical documents and books? They would still mention Bendir Dale and old Arelith names unless we do a ooc retcon.


This doesn't effect anything as the areas are still part of the island's history and canon. they just aren't physical represented as landmarks on the server anymore. The whole point of looking towards an IC cataclysmic event is to keep the IC canon these areas have left on the server as well as the people within it. So the fact that the books are there is actually part of the idea.


You're missing my point.

If people want to remove references to Arelith. But also keep it an IC event, peple will know about Bendir Dale and such. What this means is historians will write it down. A new player stumbles upon such information in a book or from another player "Bendir Dale...huh". Since they played in Arelith, they suddenly notice that similarity.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Angelis96
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 11:02 AM 

User avatar

Developer

Joined: 17 Dec 2015

I think you 'may' be missing the reasoning for the concept there.

The notion isn't to wipe out Arelith's influence with the history of the setting. The goal is to not make it the first things new players see on the server and force them to leave thinking it's a copy. Seeing something historically written ICly several months down the line in a random book I severely doubt will change people's minds. It's the first few days on the server that are detrimental to drawing new players around.

Areas on the server will do that. A random book here and there or a reference on the forums in the lore section.... I doubt it.

_________________
Arieme - Condemned Blighter and anti-druid
Khristina - Bounty Hunter, Blessed of Hoar


 
      
Jes
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 11:25 AM 

User avatar

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

TormakSaber wrote:
Everything he said...


I haven't played on Arelith, so I don't actually know personally what is from there and what isn't. But even though I've never played there, in my time on Amia I have seen countless players come, laugh at us being an imitation, and then leave. It's not fair to us for that to be the first thing people see and it would happen all over again if we came into EE so late in the game under Arelith's shadow. Arelith has done a fantastic job with the EE move, and they have been amazingly successful. Unfortunately for us, that means porting over as a 1:1 instance would only raise that Imitation flag again. Not to mention the fact that Beamdog has their hands in the Arelith pot.

I would personally much rather wipe the entire Amia isle proper, because that would be more fair and make more sense IC, too. And we could then build on all the nice custom areas that we have made. But I do understand the desire people have for keeping things they love.

We could wipe all of Amia island, as Tormak said, and then do a bit of a time jump and incorporate some places in the other areas so that people can still have the things they've worked for. Like, say, give it five years or so IC and that'll explain why the Shrine has a new location near Barak Runedar, or why Kohlingers moved to a new fort in Caraigh with the Salandrans. That would require some building to get it there, but that won't take nearly as long as reworking all the existing areas. We have a bunch of active Devs at the moment, and I'm itching to give them things to do, anyway.

(I'm kinda spitballing ideas, at this point. Don't mind me. I have lots of them.)

_________________
Login: The Copper Queen
Illunamaeryx - Platinum Commander

See me DM-side as:
[DM] Hlal | [DM] Dragonlady | [DM] The Voice

-------------------


 
      
Galenson
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 11:30 AM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: Down Under, calculating your demise with blunt expressions.

Jes wrote:
As for your suggestion, Galenson, I can't support that personally because there's no IC reason for people leaving Amia and exploring the "new world" of Caraigh. Why would our current characters suddenly do this, unless there was an apocalyptic reason pushing them? And even then... why would they then abandon the isle and not try to take it back/rebuild?

We want current characters and their present efforts to be important. With the proposed plot, they can react to their homes or neighbors being destroyed and not have to worry about sudden personality changes where they feel the need to leave their homes and become colonial explorers. None of my characters presently would do something like that. >.>


Fair enough, I get that your characters won't abandon something they've spent years cultivating. I have a pillar in Cordor that my character spent years wearing his ass groove into. I'd be sad to see that go, or the Salandran Temple for that matter too. I was merely providing an alternative to "we need a new setting so lets blow up the old one" that achieved the same goal of distancing itself from Arelith but acknowledging its roots.

If the "acknowledge the old but explore the new" which I suggested isn't an option, then I similarly back Tormak's response: its all or nothing.

As for your last comment Jes, a time jump is perfectly acceptable. The server's altered some Forgotten Realms facts already like the Silence of Lolth and the fate of the Drow deities, so we don't have to fear the pending spell plague and 4th edition if the Team doesn't desire it to occur. You could skip all the way to 5th edition and I'd still be flex with it (yes I know this won't happen, just emphasising my flexibility.)

_________________
Plays:

- Jhaeliria D'Vilrath: The Twisting Witch. Noble Daughter of House Vilrath, and gifted Illusionist

- The Scholar: Malignancy of the mind, corrupter of the spirit. The Great Game Changer

- Jack Galenson: House MD of Amia, but grumpier


 
      
Budly
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 12:06 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Location: Hin Town

Angelis96 wrote:
I think you 'may' be missing the reasoning for the concept there.

The notion isn't to wipe out Arelith's influence with the history of the setting. The goal is to not make it the first things new players see on the server and force them to leave thinking it's a copy. Seeing something historically written ICly several months down the line in a random book I severely doubt will change people's minds. It's the first few days on the server that are detrimental to drawing new players around.

Areas on the server will do that. A random book here and there or a reference on the forums in the lore section.... I doubt it.


Okay, let me put this straight to you so you understand what I mean.

If we go out of our way to remove names like Bendir Dale and Cordor. To hide away the fact that we are an Arelith offspring 10+ years ago, it be really awkward and a bad movie plot revelation when they find out that we had several areas named after places on Cordor.

As a standpoint, I say we embrace our Arelith heritage and do our own thing of it.

_________________
Plays:
Sylveera : Sun Elven fury packed in an Arcane Archer, not a Drow, promise.
Tetrik : Greed incarnate in a Duergar.
Budly : Minister of Foreign Affairs, half a foot into retirement.
Barrililath : Shadowy Drow, probably less Drow than Sylv ever be.


 
      
Revak
 
PostPosted: Thu, Apr 04 2019, 12:39 PM 

User avatar

Player

Joined: 20 Nov 2010
Location: Inside a Magic Bag full of True Strike Potions

TormakSaber wrote:
If you're going apocalpyse my earnest suggestion is nuke the entire island.


Yes.

Jes wrote:
TormakSaber wrote:
Everything he said...


We could wipe all of Amia island, as Tormak said, and then do a bit of a time jump and incorporate some places in the other areas so that people can still have the things they've worked for. Like, say, give it five years or so IC and that'll explain why the Shrine has a new location near Barak Runedar, or why Kohlingers moved to a new fort in Caraigh with the Salandrans. That would require some building to get it there, but that won't take nearly as long as reworking all the existing areas. We have a bunch of active Devs at the moment, and I'm itching to give them things to do, anyway.


I also like this, so long as the PC dominated factions (I'm going to use The Shrine as an example) are given the equal worth of a new area in terms of resources and design or better. Nothing's stopping Caraigh/Barak Runedar for example having some sort of large subterranean cave underneath and offscreen build it up to something equal in worth for the Shrine. I know those guys worked hard to build up the Shrine to what it is and would hate to see their work go down the drain.

Budly wrote:
If we go out of our way to remove names like Bendir Dale and Cordor. To hide away the fact that we are an Arelith offspring 10+ years ago, it be really awkward and a bad movie plot revelation when they find out that we had several areas named after places on Cordor.


I mean it's either that or as Jes has said above people will think we're ripping off Arelith, especially more since Arelith is the top dog on EE right now. Whilst in the past people knew about the Amia-Arelith split newcomers will not. They'll just see the names and think "Oh, that's on Arelith. These guys trying to copycat Arelith or something?". Yes, there are lorebooks and a wreath of mentions to Bendir Dale, Cordor and other Arelith related settlements/locations. A lot of people will also see the announcements pertaining to this whole change around and the explanations for the name changes etc. We won't lose the roots that made Amia what it is today, but the server needs to adapt to the changes coming. Sure, we'll lose a few iconic names, but we'll be getting so much more in return. I'm really looking forward to this new chapter of Amian history.

_________________
Image
Thanks, Boots!


Rarely seen as:
T'riss'ace - Xas!
Philip Grey - The Fury!


 
      
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 115 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group