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Lascer
 
PostPosted: Sat, Jun 01 2019, 12:32 PM 

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Joined: 17 May 2015
Location: Zionyn - 663rd layer of the Abyss

Hey, I haven't been around, if even anyone even does remember me, since the EE thing. With Amia looking at EE, I poked my head back in. The proposed and finished work looks great, and such mechanical changes will still set Amia apart from the rest, or most of it anyways. I know the argument that the RP is what it's about, but the mechanical changes to do something different ARE one of the reasons people try out, and stick around, the server. Setting the server apart is a good thing.

Anyways, I saw the discussion about racial PRCs, or removing that barrier, and that it was requested that that discussion be moved. Yet it never seemed to get picked up in the other thread about the changes. I both think it's an important discussion, and have an alternative enough suggestion I thought it called for it's own thread.

First, I agree that race-locked PRCs add to the server dynamic, and opening them up would have negative impact. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but it would certainly cost something. With the ability to add more, that seems like the wrong direction to take. Yes, it takes work to add things to the server, but out of the options of giving each race something unique to them, even if not immediate, vs giving all races access to something currently extant and race locked, but being able to do it sooner... the former seems the much better choice. Out of waiting a year to be able to make a half orc Eye of Gruumsh, instead of being able to make a gnome Arcane Archer or halfling Dwarven Defender next month (or whenever the EE shift happens), I know which seems better overall to me.

It's not like locked classes aren't baked into the game. If we make the argument that halflings can be dwarven defenders (by another name), or gnomes can be arcane archers (by another name), the same argument could be made for paladins, bards, barbarians, assassins, and anything else limited by alignment.

However. It's also true much of that unique difference is in effect what it adds to the RP dynamic, which doesn't necessarily require a class of it's own. It's just how we are used to looking at it, since that was the only option. And it's not really fair to lock the only option to make certain things viable (like archery) by race.

So I say we do both. First, leave the classes that exist alone, and make a mimic class more generally open. It's already there, so why mess with it. Towards the argument of people doubling up on classes that overlap, one, it could easily be stated that's simply not allowed, but in large part I don't see the problem. If AA gives +1 to attack every two levels, take two levels in another class that also gives +1 to attack isn't going to change anything... and will cost them access to the higher level stuff either one offers. I wouldn't suggest front loading those mimicry classes with anything special for this reason, but it doesn't make much sense to do so anyways. Same goes for DwD. Is there any real difference if a character gets 6 damage reduction from 6 levels in one class, vs them getting the same amount from 3 in two? It just hurts their build possibilities. It should be mostly a non issue.

That's just for the classes that already exist. This next part is the suggestion I haven't seen before. And for it, we have to also look at the long standing 'problem' of LEVEL ADJUSTMENT. We could possibly solve both problems with this (though, it adds a different problem, unless the cap of 3 classes has also been lifted by EE). This is a conceptual idea, not a fully fleshed out point by point guideline:

First, this has been done before, in 3rd edition rules, though I don't think it ever caught on too much, and I can't find much example on the net (it's not entirely easy to find legacy rules EDIT: actually, I found one example, 'racial paragon' levels: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races ... lasses.htm ). Old school basic DnD did it too, with 'elf' and 'dwarf' a race/class combination of it's own. So, each race gets it's own 'race class'. This is a replacement for level adjustment penalties. The base races don't need to be touched, so they don't 'need' to take the racial class, but the class should/could be built to offer synergistic bonuses to some other PRC, that would make taking both like taking the racial PRC not being made. Halfling Warslinger, for example, would be two parts; the sling based class, and synergistic bonuses to it in the halfling class. This would give everyone access to the same necessary classes, but still set the racial subset apart. Because it's not that anyone couldn't be a great slinger, it's just that haflings are very good at it. Same goes for elves and archery, or dwarves and planting oneself in place, etc.

Each race class should be a base class (since we can add those), or PRC with no pre-reqs, and max out around, say, 5 levels. That gives some room to spread abilities apart, instead of frontloading all of them. 5 also makes a pinnacle ability costly in build terms (breaking the 4 level spread), requiring commitment (break the spread, or sacrifice an epic level). Races with existing level adjustment could have a larger race class allotment, so 7 for drow (but they would end up with 30 HD, instead of the level 28 handicap they currently have, even if they didn't take 7 levels in drow). Racial classes could be designed to synergize with several classes even. Elves could get bonuses pointed towards arcane archer, AND bladesinger, for example, removing the need to make an actual 'bladesinger' prc, while a few bonuses towards swords and bows wouldn't really throw out the balance for characters not focused on those (the elf wizard wouldn't have much reason to take the race class, but also wouldn't be wildly overpowered with some buffed sword and archery). The trick would just be finding that line.

Another suggestion that could be rolled into this, is access to basic skills. Tumble being the big one, along with discipline. It doesn't make any lore sense for each race to have access to tumble and discipline, but the AC from tumble has been built into assumptions on the server, and the game makes discipline such a mandatory melee skill, that it makes mechanical sense to allow all races access. I would /NOT/ agree on UMD being treated the same way.

Some races would have a harder time with this. Tieflings, aasimar, and genasi couldn't be a base class, since we allow them to be based on any race. So they would just be a PRC, that required permission to enter... just like they require permission/DM help to be now. I don't see any problem allowing them access to both race classes however, especially since they will only get one other choice. The logistics of that will limit them from anything really OP (again, unless EE allows more than 3 classes... but even so there would still be the level 30 cap). Other awkwardness would be things like having a 'strongheart halfling' class, AND a 'halfing' class (or 'elf' and 'drow'), though perhaps that is argument for the base race classes to be a lower total (say, 3 maybe), and the subrace stuff being stacked above those and level locked to people that request those races. I don't know crap about scripting, but I'm sure it's not impossible to restrict levels or access to classes based on some token or something.

Examples:
Halfling Race Class:
HD: d6 (small creature)
Saves: as favored class (rogue, 0/2/0)
BAB: 3/4
Skill points: 4 + int modifier
Proficiencies: armor (light)
1 +1 AB sling/thrown
2 Point Black Shot
3 +1 AB sling/thrown
4 Rapid Shot, Precision +1d6 (like ranged sneak attack... or just 'sneak attack' as mechanics allow)
5 +1 AB sling/thrown, Weapon Specialization Sling (it's just 2 damage bonus, but would set them further apart from other slingers)
(6 Strongheart) +2 STR, +5 Discipline
(7 Strongheart) +2 Dodge AC

This would give them some of the pre-reqs of the relevant PRC (maybe?), and an edge on other races with the same slinger class.

Elf Race Class:
HD: d8 (medium creature)
Saves: as favored class (wizard, 0/0/2)
BAB: 3/4
Skill points: 4 + int modifier
Proficiencies: armor (medium)
1 +1 AB Longbow, +1 spells per day
2 Weapon Focus (Longbow/Longsword)
3 +1 AB Longbow, +1 spells per day
4 Point Blank Shot/ Power Attack
5 +1 AB Longbow, +1 spells per day
(6 Drow) +2 INT, Spell-like Ability: Darkness
(7 Drow) +2 CHA, Spell Resistance = 11 + Class Level

Same thing, makes it easier to segue into the relevant PRC(s), and an edge on others doing it. Sacrificing total levels available, though ending up at the same point. There's not much reason for a wizard, for example, to take it, except that it buffs their combat ability some, and access to those skills mentioned (which could itself be enough, since they would otherwise dip into rogue or something for the same thing anyways).

Dwarf Race Class
HD: d8 (Medium creature)
Saves: as favored class (fighter, 2/0/0)
BAB: +1 (lore says they are fiercer, and these classes can be used to address some of those shortcomings in the current mechanics)
Skill points: 4 + int modifier
Proficiencies: armor (medium)
1 Weapon Proficiency Exotic (so all dwarfs can easily have access to the dwarven axe)
2 Toughness
3 Weapon Focus Dwarven Axe
4 Dodge
5 +2 CON (extra, on top of the normal race bonuses they get, as they are supposed to be HARDY)
(6) N/A (?)
(7) N/A (?)

Same things, again, except I added a few tweaks to demonstrate how they could be more universal, and address shortcomings currently in the game. Giving them Dodge would also allow them to segue into DwD even without meeting the DEX requirement (or similar of whatever was made in the mimic class).

The idea is a very general class, with bonuses pointed towards, and synergizing with, various PRC roles. "Arcane Archers" in the server wouldn't necessarily have the 'arcane archer' PRC, as a few levels of 'elf' along with the more general 'archer PRC' might mimic it enough for /roleplay/ uses (though I wouldn't give that general archer class things like 'imbue arrow', so that might be a bad example).

A much less important, though possibly still relevant, bonus to doing this would be new players joining the server, would have a ready made suggestion for 'what class do I play?', even if they don't know DnD very much. I know this doesn't seem like a big thing, and would be an oddity on a server that required haks to join, but I assure you it comes up, and there are plenty of long time players that didn't really know how to begin. Someone wanting to play a dwarf, but not knowing the server politics well, or how to build for the rest of the character progression, could choose 'dwarf class' right from the beginning, and be set up well enough towards a character build into DwD, and still be just as effective as any other beginning character.

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