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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Tue, Jul 03 2018, 20:37 PM 

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Hi! I'd like to suggest potions and healing kits stack to 50 and ammo stack to 999 or something deemed "more reasonable" by the team. It's more a quality of life suggestion than anything but I think a lot of players would enjoy the reduced inventory clutter or scrambling for a new stack when the current one runs out. I've played on several servers where this was implemented and it's the best thing ever

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Kamina
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 2:33 AM 

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Joined: 05 Jul 2007
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This has been tried before without much success, I'll forward this to the devs and we might be able to see if we can get this working again though this probably isn't a high priority.

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 9:52 AM 

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I've seen it done without the use of haks. Want me to ask around on methods? I wouldn't mind scouting out how!

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Kamina
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 10:01 AM 

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If you could, that'd be grand.

This was the feedback at the previous attempt:

Quote:
So, here's what's happened so far:

As a client, I recompiled my own top hak to have the correct baseitems.2da, then removed it from all other haks (increasing the values for arrow size to 99999 , etc).

Testing that change locally works, no issues whatsoever.

Once I was done that, placed it on the override directory on the server.

I expected this to fix everything, but it did not.

Don't know if I did something wrong, but evidently the baseitems.2da is either being read from the hak or otherwise somewhere else.

So I got to thinking: This stuff will require testing, and actively if it's desired at some point, I can't easily do it by myself.

What I wanted to test next:

scenario 1:
server has hak files with updated baseitems.2da or simply remove it altogether
server has baseitems.2da in the override folder so clients can get that one

q: can clients connect with the old hak?
q: would it work for all clients at this point?
q2. if it doesn't work, then would mirroing the hak file on the client allow some people to stack to 9999?


Anyways, thats where that is.

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"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers
are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and
unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder
when met"

-Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5e.


 
      
Q't'ulu
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 12:48 PM 

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Joined: 20 Jun 2012
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I have another suggestion: to give ammo (arrows, bolts, bullets, stars) significant weight, just like throwing daggers. After all, it not even have reasonable weight in adnd3.x rulebooks, but we are already have magical ammo bags.
p.s. about size of heap of item(s): I myself several times tried to fiddle with this in the past, but looks like NWN engine do not digest well such things. :(

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maglorine
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 15:42 PM 

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Q't'ulu wrote:
I have another suggestion: to give ammo (arrows, bolts, bullets, stars) significant weight, just like throwing daggers. After all, it not even have reasonable weight in adnd3.x rulebooks, but we are already have magical ammo bags.
p.s. about size of heap of item(s): I myself several times tried to fiddle with this in the past, but looks like NWN engine do not digest well such things. :(


I don't agree with this. Ranged PC's are already at a significant disadvantage to melee. They have stacks to manage, low quantity ammo stacks, and consumable costs. NWN doesn't provide anything in the way of ammo management tools. You have 5-6 shots per round? That means you are consuming a stack every couple of spawns. Constantly clicking open magic bags in the middle of melee to drag and drop ammo to your equipment slot is annoying and unnecessary. If you had stacks of 999 the annoyance would reduce but then your stack of 999 heavyweight ammo would smash every DEX based ranged PC down to heavily encumbered every time they armed themselves.

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Q't'ulu
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 17:06 PM 

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maglorine, as example: AK-74, RoF semi-auto: 40 rounds/min, loaded magazine (30 rounds) weight 0.916 g... You got a scale of The Problem, right?
p.s. https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-mod ... they-carry

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 17:58 PM 

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And as an archer in a fantasy setting the weight of bullets really doesn't bother me. A world with dragons, talking rocks and fire cast from fingertips... has room for a lack of physics!

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Last edited by walnutboy on Wed, Jul 04 2018, 21:27 PM, edited 1 time in total.

 
      
Q't'ulu
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 18:12 PM 

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(a)dnd rulebook already cared for this issue. or... are you against The Rules of PnP?
p.s. and Jago too:
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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 18:17 PM 

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As nwn isn't pnp... Yes

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bobofwestoregonusa
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 19:07 PM 

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We're talking fun to play vs realistic. If we were going realistic you could only kill guys in full plate with blunt weapoms and rondels.

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Gravemaskin
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 20:45 PM 

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Increasing the stacks of healkits or potions would be a slight buff to both, as someone who has a character with a high heal skill; healkits can be extremely powerful and heal you for 200+ HP a round as you can use them twice per round (6 seconds), allowing you to survive anything but a knockdown or instakill as long as you have healkits to burn. One thing that limits the power of these is the 10 stack, meaning once the 10 are used up, you either have to dig up more quickly or have more hotbarred. As such, I'm not sure about increasing the stack of healkits or potions personally.

As for ammunition, however, it does nothing powerpotential-wise to change how large the stacks are as it's purely a convenience thing. If you make 10 stacks of the same arrow, once a stack is used up it'll automatically equip the last stack "used" by the ammo bag, regardless if they're currently in your normal inventory or in a magical bag so increasing the stack size wouldn't give any potential benefits other than convenience only as it'd lower the risk of you accidentally using up your last piece of a particular ammo type (Which is a standing nightmare for all AA's, especially now that there are fewer around), as such I don't mind it. However I feel that the price of restocking ammo should go up per stack proportionally to what it is now, so that the overall cost per arrow remains the same. So if a stack of 99 arrows now cost say... 1000, a stack of 990 arrows would be 10 000 etc. As such I think it'd be a nice change to get done, assuming it wouldn't be too difficult or take a large amount of dev time to get implemented.

The weight of ammo is something the Balance team would have to discuss, but I doubt it'll get changed as ammo can be stored and equipped directly from magical bags anyway so it'd only penalize people for having the increased stack size equipped and thus partly or fully negate the benefits of increased stacks, depending on builds. If anyone personally wants to have increased weight added to their gear or ammunition for RP flavor/realism purposes, that can freely be done with little to no DC cost in a request as it's considered purely a negative power addition and I don't foresee any problems with getting it approved, but again I doubt it's something the team would directly enforce on everyone with a blanket change and instead keep it as an optional potential request for people that truly desire it themselves.

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walnutboy
 
PostPosted: Wed, Jul 04 2018, 21:32 PM 

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Gravemaskin wrote:
Increasing the stacks of healkits or potions would be a slight buff to both, as someone who has a character with a high heal skill; healkits can be extremely powerful and heal you for 200+ HP a round as you can use them twice per round (6 seconds), allowing you to survive anything but a knockdown or instakill as long as you have healkits to burn. One thing that limits the power of these is the 10 stack, meaning once the 10 are used up, you either have to dig up more quickly or have more hotbarred. As such, I'm not sure about increasing the stack of healkits or potions personally.

As for ammunition, however, it does nothing powerpotential-wise to change how large the stacks are as it's purely a convenience thing. If you make 10 stacks of the same arrow, once a stack is used up it'll automatically equip the last stack "used" by the ammo bag, regardless if they're currently in your normal inventory or in a magical bag so increasing the stack size wouldn't give any potential benefits other than convenience only as it'd lower the risk of you accidentally using up your last piece of a particular ammo type (Which is a standing nightmare for all AA's, especially now that there are fewer around), as such I don't mind it. However I feel that the price of restocking ammo should go up per stack proportionally to what it is now, so that the overall cost per arrow remains the same. So if a stack of 99 arrows now cost say... 1000, a stack of 990 arrows would be 10 000 etc. As such I think it'd be a nice change to get done, assuming it wouldn't be too difficult or take a large amount of dev time to get implemented.

The weight of ammo is something the Balance team would have to discuss, but I doubt it'll get changed as ammo can be stored and equipped directly from magical bags anyway so it'd only penalize people for having the increased stack size equipped and thus partly or fully negate the benefits of increased stacks, depending on builds. If anyone personally wants to have increased weight added to their gear or ammunition for RP flavor/realism purposes, that can freely be done with little to no DC cost in a request as it's considered purely a negative power addition and I don't foresee any problems with getting it approved, but again I doubt it's something the team would directly enforce on everyone with a blanket change and instead keep it as an optional potential request for people that truly desire it themselves.


Just to correct this a little, only arrows in your inventory are insta-equiped, those moved into magic bags are untouched. Its how i've managed to keep bunches of special arrows without accidentally moving onto them during intense combat. Any stack you make, buy or pick up which is in your base inventory is automatically sent to your 'hand' once you last shot is taken... starting with your most recent pickup or purchase.

... and 99 arrows suits me just fine, i tend to have different bunches hotkeyed anyway and switch them out during combat. At times i have to open my inventory and drop new bunches into my hotbar but... well, i can actually do this while moving around.

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Q't'ulu
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 05 2018, 9:14 AM 

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Joined: 20 Jun 2012
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as a side note, more realistic ammo weights may (or may not) promote cooperation between players: usage of (very) strong PC as some sort of CAT/FAASV.
p.s. aside of ammo, I am really pissed off by a spell-slot atavism of pre-computer epoch. but, afaik, no one demands to replace it with more coherent implementation.
p.p.s. IRL arrow pack was around 20 rounds. "amian archer, don't be a cry-baby!" ;)

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maglorine
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 05 2018, 13:17 PM 

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Q't'ulu wrote:
as a side note, more realistic ammo weights may (or may not) promote cooperation between players: usage of (very) strong PC as some sort of CAT/FAASV.


So the selling point is that to avoid being heavily encumbered I can hop on a server that currently has 4 players logged in and try to get one of them to carry my ammo, including a goodly percentage of my equipped ammo on an adventure? Then I'll have to ask them to barter more to me between spawns? That sounds like a bug, not a feature.

A few comments
- 100% magic bags? Don't have any? Even your unequipped ammo is going to pile on weight.
- My slinger, for example, has at least 15 different types of bullets. 1-2 stacks of each.
- My slinger, therefore, has at least 3000 rounds of ammo on him
- Any "realistic" weight will land him at heavily encumbered, just with his equipped ammo.

There are many "unrealistic" things in this game:
- It's unrealistic to don platemail as a free action.
- It's unrealistic for a PC to "rest" in platemail.

My suggestion, for realism:
You can only rest in cloth. Donning armor takes X Rounds where X is the Armors Base AC, during which time the PC is considered Flatfooted.

You can make things more realistic in a hundred ways, but if it makes playing the game a chore for no benefit aside from this vague feeling of realism, is it really a benefit?

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Kamina
 
PostPosted: Thu, Jul 05 2018, 13:50 PM 

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We're not putting weight on to ammo.

_________________
"Operating in the border between light and darkness, shadowdancers
are nimble artists of deception. They are mysterious and
unknown, never completely trusted but always inducing wonder
when met"

-Dungeon Master's Guide 3.5e.


 
      
Q't'ulu
 
PostPosted: Fri, Jul 06 2018, 14:02 PM 

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Kamina wrote:
We're not putting weight on to ammo.


Should be darts and throwing axes made weightless too? Just to be coherent with general direction...

p.s. in OC2 ammo problem was solved ultimately and cardinally: no ammo present. Every individual launcher have its own modifiers to attack, damge, RoF, etc. (and this is even craftable!). How about this direction? (it may be represented by item trait 'unlimited ammo'. pro: no need of an ammo bag, minimized bagpack cluttering and ammo micromanagement, and so on.

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Mushidoz
 
PostPosted: Mon, Jul 09 2018, 23:08 PM 

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I recall playing on a server that had an item that acted like bandages, but had 100 or so uses. It had the exact same ability attached to it as the bandages, and I don't recall it had haks to download to play on that server (it's a long time ago though!).

Basically, if they had no haks, I assume what they did is they just dug the "ability" that healing kits have, put it on a misc item, and then put 100 charges.

However!....

Gravemaskin wrote:
Increasing the stacks of healkits or potions would be a slight buff to both, as someone who has a character with a high heal skill; healkits can be extremely powerful and heal you for 200+ HP a round as you can use them twice per round (6 seconds), allowing you to survive anything but a knockdown or instakill as long as you have healkits to burn. One thing that limits the power of these is the 10 stack, meaning once the 10 are used up, you either have to dig up more quickly or have more hotbarred. As such, I'm not sure about increasing the stack of healkits or potions personally.


... I also think it would not be a good idea, as that would make the kits too powerful - as, from experience, it was indeed too powerful on that server too.

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