AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Market Stalls Closing

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Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 10:08 AM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

I've noticed that after setting up a storefront in the market hall, if I leave and come back, the store is closed and my placeables vanish. It seems it only happens when noone else is in the hall, so is this to do with the dynamic areas? If so, could the market hall be made static again?

Thanks for the help.

Silkelock

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 11:47 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Sweden

Leave as in leave the area/zone and go do something else?

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 12:15 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

If it's dynamic, then that surely is the reason. Because I know that otherwise anyone can close a PC storefront if the vendor isn't in the area. If no one is in the area when it happens, then perhaps the Market Hall should be taken off the dynamic list. I know you sometimes have to step out for a minute, because RP is like that.

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Naivatkal

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 12:22 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Yep, this is working as intended.

Which is a good thing; if you leave, well, you should be closing your shop. Countless times people log out (or even go to B and grind) with their shop and ten or so PLCs out. It's a small price to pay.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 12:46 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

I may be one of only a few negatively affected here, as it takes 10-15 minutes to set up my large shop every time. But as Jes said, sometimes there's no avoiding having to go out into the square, or anywhere else.

Sure, there maybe a couple extra PLCs out, but the market hall is pure roleplay compared to the auction forum. Can't we bump this one area off the dynamic list to make that roleplay easier?

Silkelock

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 12:59 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Location: Sweden

Not to mention if you don't close shop you oocly limit other players from using it. So yes, working as intended

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Life should be prolonged only when it serves the greater cause of the death of the world.

Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 13:04 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Actually, like I said before, anyone can close a shop if the player is not in the area. You just click on the sign and it'll say something like, "This is so-and-so's shop. Close it?"

There's really no need to let it wipe it out just because it's dynamic. As a former merchant PC player, I remember running to grab something quick several times and coming back to the shop. Only one time was my shop closed and set up with someone else's stuff. And even if that feature has been arbitrarily removed along the way (which I doubt!), there are plenty of merchant storefronts in the Merchant Hall. Rarely have all of them been used at once.

I don't think it's working as intended. I think it's just an effect of the dynamic areas that seems to make sense to some, but is more of a pain in the neck to the people who actually do use the storefronts.

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Naivatkal

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 13:10 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Clicking the sign works, indeed, however when there are tons of PLCs up (which, after a certain point, are just clutter) then you have to OOC destroy them all.

It is working as intended, as we knew this would be the case on implementation.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 13:35 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Okay, so it was intended. But is there a reason that it absolutely can't be amended for the sake of the merchant PCs? They are the reason the market stalls exist, after all. PLC clutter spam is a problem everywhere and the dynamic areas help with that. But why can't there be one or two exceptions for those areas where merchant PCs set up their wares? With the sign use to deactivate a shop, why is this necessary in just the one area? Is it really just because PCs might set up a bunch of PLCs?

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Naivatkal

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 13:47 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

There's multiple areas (or planned to be) that are instant-destroy like the Market Hall. Most of the areas on the server are set up to be consumed after 15 or so minutes.

I linked this over to Dev Chat, so if there's going ot be a change it will be discussed there.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 13:50 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Alrighty. Thanks for looking at this, Naiv!

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Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 15:00 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

Thanks for looking into this. It would make it much less frustrating to be a merchant if this one area could be taken off the dynamic list.

RaveN

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 15:32 PM

Administrative Developer

Joined: 08 Jun 2010

I personally dislike how much trash people leave in the market hall, only to never come back. It seems like an improvement to me. :\

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Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 15:53 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

I haven't seen the PLC litter you guys refer to, so I can't talk about that. But I wanted to make sure it was discussed. If the Dev Team decides that the litter cleanup outweighs the merchant PC needs, then that's that. If there's so much PLC litter going on that it's bad enough to require purging regularly for lag/server load/whatever, then that's different. And also the fault of the players doing it.

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msheeler

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 17:03 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Location: eastern USA

I've seen it both DM side and player side. Not one or two PLCs, like 10-15. I have even seen bottled companions left behind.

This is mostly a case of the the abusers ruining it for the ones who do not abuse it, I think. Besides, should you really be walking out an leaving all those wares unattended for anyone to just walk up and take?

TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 17:52 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

I dunno. In this case, I feel the gain outweighs the loss, here.

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Broldi

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 17:55 PM

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

I love seeing peoples Bottled Companions left behind. means I can make it "Leggit!".

Really, though. So far I'm just bugging almost half the time I enter dynamic areas. Area's entirely black. I heard it said that "bugs get fixed", that doesn't fill me with confidence when the server still suffers bugs that we've had for ages. White box in inventory for example. Not to say I'm not hopeful that this'll work well.

I do add that dynamic area's eating signs and paintings is kind of a pain since that's the only reason people make them, is so they can leave a message with out having to sit in the same area all day.

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TormakSaber

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:00 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere

If you need an area changed so that you can leave a message or etc permanently, you can ask a DM - we have the ability to make an area stay permanently loaded in until the next reset. Not a perfect solution, I know.

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Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham

Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:03 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

That's a good solution, I didn't know that. If there's a DM on, I'll ask.

As for the placeable, the only large cluster I've seen was Rashad's, which only looked like a single plc widget group. Doro only puts down one carpet, and that's the only PLC I've seen in the market hall all month.

I completely understand the need to remove clutter, and I love the server to be lag free too. But I feel this is a single area that is best left off the dynamic list, because it causes OOC frustration and at worst can limit roleplay.

Rigela

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:06 PM

Player

Joined: 16 Sep 2010
Location: Grimy Old England

Broldi wrote:

The white box thing does have a fix somewhere on the forums. I had presumed it was included in the recent update in general, though, but I guess not :S

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Naivatkal

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:12 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Rigela wrote:

Broldi wrote:

The white box thing does have a fix somewhere on the forums. I had presumed it was included in the recent update in general, though, but I guess not :S

I think he means how it happens every now and then. In which case, that's a NWN thing not a server thing.

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Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:14 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

Nah, they're talking about the white box plague.

Here's the cure, for reference. Yay, Search skillz.

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Terallis

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:18 PM

Player

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada

Naivatkal wrote:

Rigela wrote:

Broldi wrote:

The white box thing does have a fix somewhere on the forums. I had presumed it was included in the recent update in general, though, but I guess not :S

I think he means how it happens every now and then. In which case, that's a NWN thing not a server thing.

Yes. The inventory items turning into white boxes, visually, is a combination of NWN and the GPU. I've had the issue before and it often tends to happen when I log out/crash, but sign back in without restarting NWN. (Though, I just do the direct connect through a shortcut, now. In fact, I recommend doing that if you're having this issue all the time.) But not gonna go too off on that, as it's not the topic here.

EDIT: Or what Jes linked. That works. Pretty sure it's linked to the issue I mentioned, either way, though. Haha!

On the topic, though, I do think making those areas dynamic and removing stuff like that when the area is inactive was a good idea. That sort of thing can reduce lag (in varying amounts) and even make crashes less likely. So I'm all for the PLCs, store, and whatever else disappearing when the area becomes inactive.

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Broldi

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:24 PM

Player

Joined: 06 Dec 2012

Wooops, sorry for the derail, but thanks for the help!

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MAURICE "THE JUGGERNAUT" GRAFF

Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:33 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

I'm sure most every merchant would give up the PLCs if we could avoid having to set up the shop an extra time. It's 10-15 minutes of constant clicking and requires complete concentration.

Can't we approach it that way? Ask merchants to cut down on PLCs in exchange for the area being removed off the dynamic list? We're all in this together to have fun, after all.

msheeler

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 18:58 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Location: eastern USA

The most I'd be willing to do was to give it some delay before it was destroyed. Like 5 minutes or so.

Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 19:04 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

Excellent solution. Thank you very much!

Ts_

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 20:50 PM

Player

Joined: 28 Jul 2008

Will Hilrash's shop also be wiped by the same effect? So whenever no PC is in the market hall, all sold items disappear and limited items (if there are any) reappear?

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Terallis

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 21:56 PM

Player

Joined: 30 Oct 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada

Doubtful. I'm pretty sure the merchants function differently. Their inventories aren't tied to the area.

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msheeler

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 22:01 PM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Location: eastern USA

That

Naivatkal

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 22:25 PM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

I saw otherwise, actually. I went into Hil'rash, made sure no one was in the map at all, then sold something. Walked out, went back in, it was gone. Might need more testing, but it seems like he is getting reset.

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

Jes

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 23:21 PM

DM

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Location: Camriiole

That would explain why I never see loot in his shop anymore.

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Doro

Posted: Wed, Oct 28 2015, 23:25 PM

Player

Joined: 01 Nov 2014

No, heeler is correct here. I've done extensive testing, and Hil'rash's stock retains its items after leaving, even when I'm the only one on the server. His stock does refresh after a time though.

msheeler

Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2015, 0:21 AM

Player

Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Location: eastern USA

shops are not a part of the area, so dynamic areas would not affect them in any way. All shops clear items after a certain amount of opens.

Naivatkal

Posted: Thu, Oct 29 2015, 3:18 AM

Player

Joined: 26 May 2010

Yep I just checked again and this time the item didn't disappear. It was really odd, the item I sold earlier vanished and I was the only one in there when I sold it, left, and came back.

Magic!

_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming

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Market Stalls Closing

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