AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic - Making "Death Attack" text invisible to others

This is brought up before, and I think it got buried.

Can we make it so the visible text of *Death Attack* is visible to only the player, much like the HiPS cooldown text?

"Why is that dex build doing so much damage and not reporting sneak attacks?"

Perhaps the original intent was to make it so others could recognize a style of attacking. Same with Sneak Attacks.

But we could make Sneak Attacks show only to the player, too, to make it universal. I don't think everyone should magically recognize a style of fighting while in the middle of combat, anyway.

The Death Attack doesn't have a single identifying way of being executed. I'd rather people have to think about it at all instead of having "this character is evil" spoon fed to them, or have to actually look at their combat log and go, huh, I had to make a fortitude save at one point... I wonder why...

I'd be for Sneak Attack being visible to only the player also.

Jes wrote:

But we could make Sneak Attacks show only to the player, too, to make it universal. I don't think everyone should magically recognize a style of fighting while in the middle of combat, anyway.

I'm all for that, then An assassin PC wouldn't need a pair of "Anti-Metagaming Assassin gloves that give 1d6 Sneak Attack"

Honestly, removing "sneak" and "death" attack markers would be appropriate. Those are specific fighting styles and it's inappropriate that just anyone can identify them.

Yes please.

What of the red glow vfx applied to your weapon for having an assassin technique on it? Such as Murder

lilmarcat wrote:

What of the red glow vfx applied to your weapon for having an assassin technique on it? Such as Murder

Yeah, that is rather a pain. There's a way around it but I don't think it's appropriate to have the in-your-face signal to everyone.

Frankly I can't stand seeing that text and I've never played an assassin. You can't unsee things like that which just scream "metagame me". This makes it more difficult to keep OOC and IC separated despite everyone having the best of intentions.

Yes. This is an idea we've been screaming for before, so let me scream again.

Anything that gives away your class, anything with a potentional of metagaming should be removed. Be it monk gloving eyes, gloving weapons, death attack text.

So yes. Yes, very much.

Guardian wrote:

monk glowing eyes

#triggered

Agreed. Even for classes that aren't especially secret about what they are, I much prefer that the information of what they are come from the player themselves, via their bio, their emotes, and their actions.

On the topic of monk eyes we were going to try and make it so they are off by default and you request (for free) glowing eyes so if you want them you can have them and if not you aren't saddled with them. Makes it hard to be a monk infiltrator if your eyes scream your alignment XD

lilmarcat wrote:

What of the red glow vfx applied to your weapon for having an assassin technique on it? Such as Murder

Really, it's just there so you can tell when your effects wear off. That said is rather have to guess than have the metagame me flag worn proudly. Should be easy enough to disable with some light scripting, though.

These ideas, they are fantastique!

Somewhat related, but a way to "turn off" monk speed without wearing armor would be welcome. Like a /walk command. It could even work on elves too.

Problem is, who should and should not be able to recognize:

* The lithe figure comes at you with a cross slash, following up by a stab to your lower abdomen.

Versus:

* The lithe figure comes at you, manouvering to get around your guard to drive his blade between your neck and shoulder.

Versus:

* The lithe figure comes at you, catching you off guard with a sudden reversal of his momentum as he cuts low after feinting high.

---

There are some of us who should be able to recognize which of those are basically death attacks, and which of those are sneak attacks or normal attacks. The way NWN combat goes, you do not have a lot of time to stylistically describe your attacks as you might in PnP.

MightNMagic wrote:

Somewhat related, but a way to "turn off" monk speed without wearing armor would be welcome. Like a /walk command. It could even work on elves too.

Also Yes Pls. There miiiiiight be a way to do this with a custom feat Monks could get when they get monk speed. Kind of like how the KC stuff works. But this will require a hak update. But worth tossing around to the other Devs to decide if they'd like to work on it or how they'd do it.

No major comment except to say I support these ventures.

Grymia wrote:

There are some of us who should be able to recognize which of those are basically death attacks.

I dunno. In my opinion, no one should be able to recognize such style.

Because take, for example, monk assassins - all of them have a different techiques. Sure, they may have the same school, but each and everyone is unique, and so is the fighting style. How can you say that the monk is using normal attack, sneak attack or death attack unless you're a martial master yourself?

And attacking vitals, as you have mentioned - damn, that can easily be a sneak attack, right? Sneak is also focused on weak spots / vitals, afaik.

And how could you recognize an epic weapon master from an assassin? They will both go for weak spots. They will both masterfully attempt to finish the combat with a single, devastating blow ( Ki strike vs. Death attack)

Nah, death attack should be hidden. As mentioned before, if for nothing else, then for the possibility of metagaming.

Naivatkal wrote:

On the topic of monk eyes we were going to try and make it so they are off by default and you request (for free) glowing eyes so if you want them you can have them and if not you aren't saddled with them. Makes it hard to be a monk infiltrator if your eyes scream your alignment XD

Yes, please make sure it makes it into the next hak update this time. My heart can't take any more teasing about this. :cry:

You can make death attacks report as sneak attacks. It'd still be plainly obvious that it was one of the two if as a dexer you were hitting someone for 60 damage a hit with a short sword. Hiding them both would do nothing.

LetumLux wrote:

Naivatkal wrote:

On the topic of monk eyes we were going to try and make it so they are off by default and you request (for free) glowing eyes so if you want them you can have them and if not you aren't saddled with them. Makes it hard to be a monk infiltrator if your eyes scream your alignment XD

Yes, please make sure it makes it into the next hak update this time. My heart can't take any more teasing about this. :cry:

The fact that you get them is a good thing. If people want to metagame your alignment, it really isn't a big deal. At level 20 you're an outsider and anyone with a detect spell would be able to figure it out. Aren't many classes where people can be uneased by a look. Monk is one of them.

Would rather the 60+ mph zooming around be the indicator of becoming a native Outsider, along with the traits of Perfect Self, rather than headlights. At the very least, I'm not into the color-coordinated Good-Neutral-Evil.

LetumLux wrote:

Would rather the 60+ mph zooming around be the indicator of becoming a native Outsider, along with the traits of Perfect Self, rather than headlights. At the very least, I'm not into the color-coordinated Good-Neutral-Evil.

Usually doesn't come up in conversation unless you tab in and misclick.

Well, for myself, New Moons do little other than run around at full speed, spooking the shit out of players who thought the character was a bug racing across the screen.

Akhlys wrote:

The fact that you get them is a good thing. If people want to metagame your alignment, it really isn't a big deal. At level 20 you're an outsider and anyone with a detect spell would be able to figure it out. Aren't many classes where people can be uneased by a look. Monk is one of them.

You do realize that monk eyes is entirely a Bioware thing, right? In PnP you don't get glowy eyes by default. They are something Bioware through in for a cool effect (which it is!) but didn't think about the multiplayer implications.

Naivatkal wrote:

You do realize that monk eyes is entirely a Bioware thing, right? In PnP you don't get glowy eyes by default. They are something Bioware through in for a cool effect (which it is!) but didn't think about the multiplayer implications.

This can be said about 95% of the spell VFX too, but that's another topic altogether.
Yes, I would love to have the spell VFXs removed.

So much yessss. I have always mentally noted when I see "Death attack" pop up while hunting with someone. While I certainly do my best to not let it bias me the single fact I know that person is evil now on an OOC level has to have to some bias impact, if I wish it or not.

I am on the side that sneak attack should still appear. That is a pretty distinctive fighting style that I am certain any adventurer could pick out. I just don't think anyone but another assassin would be able to tell the subtle differences between sneak and death attacks so it would all make sense IC, imo.

Yeah but if you don't hide Sneak attacks in the same way, it's just a thin layer of obfuscation that clearly indicates who's an assassin and who's a rogue.

Then... if a "sneak attack" versus a "death attack" requires more experience to distinguish, but a sneak attack could be recognized, what if sneak attacks and death attacks both said "sneak attack"?

Ti'avel wrote:

Then... if a "sneak attack" versus a "death attack" requires more experience to distinguish, but a sneak attack could be recognized, what if sneak attacks and death attacks both said "sneak attack"?

Indeed, it's also a solution. Either remove it completely, or *mask* it as a sneak attack. Both works, I think.

I personally do not know if this is even possible, but I don't have any objections to doing it if it is.

People are going to know it's a Death Attack vs a Sneak Attack anyway.

Raua wrote:

MightNMagic wrote:

Somewhat related, but a way to "turn off" monk speed without wearing armor would be welcome. Like a /walk command. It could even work on elves too.

Also Yes Pls. There miiiiiight be a way to do this with a custom feat Monks could get when they get monk speed. Kind of like how the KC stuff works. But this will require a hak update. But worth tossing around to the other Devs to decide if they'd like to work on it or how they'd do it.

Would this be able to be linked into the player tools. Maybe a simple "Increase speed, Decrease speed" Unable to go above your highest speed?
Etc,

Increase to normal running speed
Decrease to Normal Running speed
Decrease to heavily encumbered speed
Take % Off (Type in)

Applies a movement speed debuff from an algorithm then, based on monk, masterscout and barbarian levels?

Wouldn't need a Hak Update then.

Also on Monk eyes, is it possible to request a different eye colour to hide your alingment? Eg White eyes, until anything is put in?

speedgrab wrote:

Also on Monk eyes, is it possible to request a different eye colour to hide your alingment? Eg White eyes, until anything is put in?

You could, but it doesn't replace the original color, it'll be obviously both colors, so it won't hide your alignment, unfortunately. (I've tried it.)

LetumLux wrote:

speedgrab wrote:

Also on Monk eyes, is it possible to request a different eye colour to hide your alingment? Eg White eyes, until anything is put in?

You could, but it doesn't replace the original color, it'll be obviously both colors, so it won't hide your alignment, unfortunately. (I've tried it.)

This is the point when you give them all three colors to wear at the same time!

Nobody will suspect a thing~~

:wink:

Haha! There you go!

Meanwhile the monk and everyone around them can never sleep due to the LED lights beaming out of their face. :O

Raua wrote:

LetumLux wrote:

speedgrab wrote:

Also on Monk eyes, is it possible to request a different eye colour to hide your alingment? Eg White eyes, until anything is put in?

You could, but it doesn't replace the original color, it'll be obviously both colors, so it won't hide your alignment, unfortunately. (I've tried it.)

This is the point when you give them all three colors to wear at the same time!

Nobody will suspect a thing~~

:wink:

Would this be able to be requested, until other measures can be put in place for the monk of discretion?

speedgrab wrote:

Would this be able to be requested, until other measures can be put in place for the monk of discretion?

This would be pretty expensive with our current rules/prices, IIRC glowing eyes is 10 DCs, so it would cost you 20 for the obfuscation, and it would probably look terrible. That said, you might be able to make a case for it being just a couple DCs or something, given the circumstances, and hopefully it would be ruled in your favor.

LetumLux wrote:

speedgrab wrote:

Would this be able to be requested, until other measures can be put in place for the monk of discretion?

This would be pretty expensive with our current rules/prices, IIRC glowing eyes is 10 DCs, so it would cost you 20 for the obfuscation, and it would probably look terrible. That said, you might be able to make a case for it being just a couple DCs or something, given the circumstances, and hopefully it would be ruled in your favor.

Personally, I'd be against charging DCs for it. It's meant to prevent metagamed information, which shouldn't be a concern.. But given the instances of it--Intentional or not, It's unfair to have to charge someone simply for wanting to play a character without their alignment being broadcast for all to see.

But we'll let a DM rule on that.~

Making "Death Attack" text invisible to others

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