There are a few Job Items that either seem to do nothing or are very redundant at the moment. Namely, a few Inventor gadgets and a couple of items made by Alchemist. In the case of the gadgets, I would suggest giving them little(already made) powers that do something and forgetting whatever the original scripts were supposed to do. The alchemy items did at one time work as intended I believe(they gave different skill bonuses) but have all defaulted to giving +3 Persuade sometime in the past. These should easily be fixed by just changing the constant in EffectSkillIncrease in the scripts. Both of these things should be quick and easy fixes as I believe all these items are in the builder's toolset, so it's doable on a rainy day without much rush or fuss. My suggestions are as follows:

Alchemy

Bottom Balm: +3 Persuade +3 Heal Skill. Explanation: soothing/cleansing balm on a PC's hands makes healing more effective.

Eau de Cordor: +3 Persuade. Stays the same. Perfume makes you more likable. Whatever.

Kohlinger Kohl: +3 Persuade +3 Spot. Explanation: Kohl is a dark eye cosmetic, so it probably could be used like athletes use eye black very easily.

Pale Powder: +3 Persuade +3 Hide. Explanation: Camoflauge paint.

Elemental Essences: Nothing Summon Fire/Water/Earth/Air Elemental, Single Use. Explanation: the elemental essences are usable, but activating them does nothing but remove them from your inventory from all my testing. The descriptions make them seem like they're supposed to be mini-elementals trapped in bottles, so simply make them that. The vanilla elemental summons from this ability are all HD 4 with 20-30 HP, so they're no more powerful than a level 1 or 2 summon. They last for a while though, so they're cool for RP.

Inventions

Sapphire Knives: Nothing Cast Manticore Spikes, Single Use. Explanation: it's listed as a gadget, but unlike most, it does nothing. Make them throwing knives. Manticore spikes is an ability found on multiple low tier items like a helm, a set of gloves, a shield, and a cloak, so no upset there.

Wrapping Web: Lies Nothing Tanglefoot Bag, 5 uses. Explanation: someone asks me how to use this item every month. The description lies, casting a healing spell on it does nothing and all attempts to use the item fail. Just make it throwable spider webbing and call it a day.


Before anyone throws a fit over liking a particular Alchemy thing giving Persuade, recall you can rename any Job System item through a scribe's desk. You can keep calling it whatever you want if that suits you, this simply keeps it interesting by not having 4 products doing the same exact thing.

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I like this idea, given there is time for such additions.

However I would make the suggestion for different effects. Pale powder and Kohl seems to be more tied to charisma for me, so why not link them to skills that are tied to this ability? Pale powder could give a +3 to intimidate, while Kohlingen Kohl gives performers an edge (+ 3 performance).

Great idea, I've monkeyed with the wrapping Web to try to get it to work and have been unsuccessful as well.

I like it!

And yeah, I never understood the point of some job system products being useless.

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The reason I suggested Hide for Pale Powder is because that is what the item originally did, IIRC. I don't remember what Kohlinger Kohl was supposed to do(if it ever worked at all), but if we have something that gives a little boost to Hide, it only seems fair that we also have something that gives a little boost to Spot as well. Nothing's set in stone though, as long as the items work and do different things, that's really the point. However, Hide, Spot, Heal, and Persuade do feel like a good mix of secondary skills to me.

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Ah, yes, I get where you are coming from. I just started from the item and what ability I would link with it. The exact boost is irrelevant to me tbh, I just like the idea (and I think we share throw thought) .

Finally, some explanation of what the produced items are from jobs. I wish this was included in the documentation.

Thanks though.

I think originally it was to keep some of the allure going about what you can make with the Job System, to keep people trying new things instead of just going for what they knew. There's a lot of fun in the discovery of stuff! The only problem is, when something isn't working properly or working at all, it's hard to get feedback because no one knows how it's supposed to work in the first place. There may not even be a comprehensive list of what all this stuff was supposed to do originally. Fortunately, these are the only real offenders in my book. While there are other gadgets and inventor items out there, most of them are pretty straight forward by the name without giving away what exactly they do, and I know for a fact that those work.

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I like this.

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I disagree on this one. You trap an elemental essence from an elemental, turn it into a potion and then create a new elemental from it. It is a cool idea. But lore wise it does not sit well with me.

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You got it backwards. Essence is used to create potions, not the other way around. Elemental -> Essence -> Potion.

Also lorewise, you're probably not "creating" a new elemental when/if you use the essence, IMO. You're just releasing the little bit your scrapped off from the bigger one from the Essence Trap. When an elemental runs over an Essence Trap, it's not actually consumed, it's just paralyzed for a second. Given how fundamentally basic an elemental is, I'd say it's conceivable that when you break off a part of it, you get that weird budding thing that worms, sponges, starfish, and other life does. A tinier version of the first that probably withers away or returns to the cycle after its "duration" is up. But it's the Job system. You can probably come up with a several explanations for the end result.

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I was talking about your idea Elemental > Essence > Potion > Elemental. I wish there was a way for lowbies to do this. Then this elemental could be a mini summon to help them out leveling early on. But yeah, probably lore can be worked out. We just have to think if it would have any impact on the large scale. It's not uncommon that seemingly small lore tweaks turn out to be major screw-ups later on. We know perfectly well what a capable wizard/sorcerer can do if there's a loophole. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but still lore changes should not be rushed. If this is to be done then an exact process should be discovered and elaborated. Which again can be a cool IC project for an alchemist / team of alchemists.

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But that's not my idea, Dead. The flow is quite literally

Elemental -> Essence -> Elemental

OR

Elemental -> Essence -> Potion

Elemental Essence is what I'm suggesting has the summoning ability. That comes before anything is made into a potion. As for lowbies having access to them, that's a fine market opportunity for people looking to buy or sell them. PC Alchemists, of which there seem to be a few now, will add it to their stock if there's demand. There's also always the ones that restock from the NPC Job Merchants every reset that anyone can buy. You also may be overthinking the lore implications. Is there one set way that Flame Pipes are created and work? Is there only one way for Crying Bombs to be made? The whole point of allowing those things to be renamed and re-bio'ed is so you have a bit of freedom. Trust me, essence traps and elemental essences have been used in one or two different ways in RP thus far and nothing fell apart. There's no need to go setting how everything works in stone.

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