AMIA ARCHIVE • View topic

Emboldened by the discussion from the general forum, I'm putting forward this suggestion to the team now.

1) Allow us to share DCs with each other. The cooldown could be 12 hours per person a DC is given to, to a total of 5 people/CDkey per reset. Like recommending 4 people in a span of a reset, but you cannot recommend the same person twice in a row.

You give me 1 DC, for example, you would have to wait 12 hours to give me another one. But, in the mean time, you could give 4 more people 1 DC.

Also, a person can only be gifted 1 DC per cooldown. So another person wanting to gift the same person would have to wait. This is to avoid people from gaining 5 DCs per cooldown.

DMs can still give out as many DCs as they want to players, regardless of any cooldowns.

2) Allow us to pay more than 50% of the price of another person's request. Perhaps even 100% as Tormak suggested. This will still be consensual, as always.

I am liking Tormaks suggestion. Though I would like to see the requester at least pay a starting fee.

This being based on if the goal of sharing DCs is to let more players use them for requesting things.

Honestly, there are already a lot of things that someone can pay for someone else entirely, just by the way they present it and it's been that way for a long time - we just didn't talk about it. Someone gifts a new pet to their friend, and pays for their Animal Companion reskin or Bottled Companion. Someone makes a magical item to be given to someone else. This has been going on for yeeeears and these requests continue to be approved despite being obvious circumvention (whether that's the intention or not) of having the final recipient pay any DCs for the request. I think we should drop the unnecessary pretenses on the rest of the types of requests and allow any of them to be fully paid for by someone else. It really doesn't add anything to keep it up, far as I can see.

If people want to pay for DC costs for their friends, let them. If the people who are sitting on their caches of DCs because they don't have anything they want for themselves want to roll up and just outright pay off a DC request they think looks fun for some random other player who can't afford it, let them.

Also a fair point.

I think just outright allowing people to pay 100% of a requests' cost is enough. That's what they are for, mostly, anyways. Leveling with them should be done with the ones you have earned (ie via RP a DM has overseen).

I'd be for that at least. As Letum said, we pretty much do it already anyway.

LetumLux wrote:

Honestly, there are already a lot of things that someone can pay for someone else entirely, just by the way they present it and it's been that way for a long time - we just didn't talk about it. Someone gifts a new pet to their friend, and pays for their Animal Companion reskin or Bottled Companion. Someone makes a magical item to be given to someone else. This has been going on for yeeeears and these requests continue to be approved despite being obvious circumvention (whether that's the intention or not) of having the final recipient pay any DCs for the request. I think we should drop the unnecessary pretenses on the rest of the types of requests and allow any of them to be fully paid for by someone else. It really doesn't add anything to keep it up, far as I can see.

If people want to pay for DC costs for their friends, let them. If the people who are sitting on their caches of DCs because they don't have anything they want for themselves want to roll up and just outright pay off a DC request they think looks fun for some random other player who can't afford it, let them.

OK. Done, New paradigm as far as I'm concerned. Welcome to the new age.

(This isn't a DM ruling.)

LetumLux wrote:

Honestly, there are already a lot of things that someone can pay for someone else entirely...... Someone makes a magical item to be given to someone else. This has been going on for yeeeears and these requests continue to be approved despite being obvious circumvention......
If people want to pay for DC costs for their friends, let them. If the people who are sitting on their caches of DCs because they don't have anything they want for themselves want to roll up and just outright pay off a DC request they think looks fun for some random other player who can't afford it, let them.

Where have I been.... because last I checked at no point ever have you been able too do that in the history of amia, because the DMs don't work requests for items like FR does where anyone can have and use anything they want. (( not counting race....ect type restrictions))

Amia we have some sort of X item is fine for you because you have Y build, but not that guy with Z build because we deem it too strong. So we have never been able to trade/ request a item to then give to someone else because of class/build as you make all classes with GMW...ect pay for +5 on weapons even if not requested to prevent them getting more magical effects.

I know of at least three instances where that was the case. I've been given and given DC items, too. Both created specifically for someone else and given away after the death of a character. I don't think it was a secret, Cory!

Quote:

Amia we have some sort of X item is fine for you because you have Y build, but not that guy with Z build because we deem it too strong.

I know this has been used in the past, but it was always a sentiment I really stringently disagreed with. If I approve it for Jim the Mage, I need to be prepared to approve it for Joe the Fighter.

For lack of a better phrase, it's a "open secret". The counterargument sure to come is right: We should have advertised it better in the past. Idon't think it was ever really consciously viewed as a cute way to get around any sort of restrictions, and in my experience it was definitely never treated that way.

TormakSaber wrote:

Quote:

Amia we have some sort of X item is fine for you because you have Y build, but not that guy with Z build because we deem it too strong.

I know this has been used in the past, but it was always a sentiment I really stringently disagreed with. If I approve it for Jim the Mage, I need to be prepared to approve it for Joe the Fighter.

For lack of a better phrase, it's a "open secret". The counterargument sure to come is right: We should have advertised it better in the past. Idon't think it was ever really consciously viewed as a cute way to get around any sort of restrictions, and in my experience it was definitely never treated that way.

See and I would have no problem with people selling/tradeing DC items if amia got rid of that stupid double standard because as you said if you approved it for Jim the mage you need to be prepared to do the same for joe the fighter, if a item passes because its deemed ok for all, after that point what happens to it does not matter because its fine for everyone..

I know I share my improved holy water with people, I don't teach/show people how to make it because then I get more RP IC as they come to me for it (( and I plan to try and do more item spawners down the line following the same idea, but the idea that its balanced for me alone to use it would be kind of silly))

So I imagine there is a general agreeing consensus among the team about peoples requests being 100% payable by others?

Also

What about the ability of people being able to share DCs ingame, with said limitations and cooldowns?

T0mc4t89 wrote:

What about the ability of people being able to share DCs ingame, with said limitations and cooldowns?

The only possible additional purpose for this, assuming DC Requests could be fully paid for by anyone, is giving out DC's so others could burn them for XP and Gold?

It's also nice to just give someone a DC from ingame stuff. Not like people stalk the request forums all the time.

maglorine wrote:

T0mc4t89 wrote:

What about the ability of people being able to share DCs ingame, with said limitations and cooldowns?

The only possible additional purpose for this, assuming DC Requests could be fully paid for by anyone, is giving out DC's so others could burn them for XP and Gold?

Not exactly. As I said in another of these parallel threads, the IG sharing would make occasional, small donations much easier.

There is the risk that if I wanted to gift you one DC right now, I simply might not
* notice your request
* remember our RP
* feel like it
* make the connection between that IG encounter and your forum handle
* still play on Amia
a year later when your request comes up, so the DC is never gifted.

Also, some people might not make a request if they don't already have most of the DCs for it, so they never get donated DCs for it, so the request never happens.

I'm not against full donations and think it's the easiest solution to a part of the problem, but I much prefer the little donation of a DC for RP. Because I don't think any moment of RP is worth 20 DCs for a custom DC item, but 20 moments might be worth a DC each.

Regards
Ts

PS: Or what Tomcat the Ninja said in just one sentence ...

I think it would be much, much better if we could just gift other players a DC in game from time to time to show our appreciation for the RP they contribute. Making it so that people can pay for 100% of someone's DC request but not gift DCs one at a time in game is only going to make it so that the change is really only taken advantage of by players already in cliques/factions/whatever.

If one of the worries is that DC-rich players will just bankroll their friends, this is the wrong way to go about preventing that. If I had no DCs and I wanted to make a request, I'd feel pretty awkward asking other players to pay for it for me.

Can we have an official announcement then that people can pay 100% now of another person's request? As it seems everyone is agreeing?

Would be nice to have a way to donate DCs ingame with the system I mentioned in my first post, but I imagine this requires some scripting.

As per Letum's suggestion in the discussion about RP XP, I'm kicking this discussion back to life. RIIIIIIISE!

Terallis wrote:

Actually, I suppose I do like that idea a fair bit more, actually. I do remember that discussion from a while back. It would definitely allow for a lot more range of things, as well as, as you mentioned, master-student RP to flourish really nicely. I am definitely in favour of something that would do that. I mean, I suppose not everyone /could/ give out DCs. Especially if they are low on them, themselves. But there are definitely a large number of people who have many DCs on them that could always help out others.

The one question that comes to mind is "How would that be moderated?" Specifically, how would it be limited to prevent people from just giving out DCs because they're friends and want to give someone higher levels? Like, mainly a situation where there's absolutely no RP happening, but someone just dumps a bunch of DCs on someone because they can, and to effectively level the person up to however far they can go. Now, if that's not seen as an issue at all, then alright. Would definitely be nice to see some sort of limitation, though. Like once or twice per reset, maybe. Similar to the existing mechanic of recommending people with the DC wand. Or... how it used to be, at least.

Terallis wrote:

As per Letum's suggestion in the discussion about RP XP, I'm kicking this discussion back to life. RIIIIIIISE!

Terallis wrote:

Actually, I suppose I do like that idea a fair bit more, actually. I do remember that discussion from a while back. It would definitely allow for a lot more range of things, as well as, as you mentioned, master-student RP to flourish really nicely. I am definitely in favour of something that would do that. I mean, I suppose not everyone /could/ give out DCs. Especially if they are low on them, themselves. But there are definitely a large number of people who have many DCs on them that could always help out others.

The one question that comes to mind is "How would that be moderated?" Specifically, how would it be limited to prevent people from just giving out DCs because they're friends and want to give someone higher levels? Like, mainly a situation where there's absolutely no RP happening, but someone just dumps a bunch of DCs on someone because they can, and to effectively level the person up to however far they can go. Now, if that's not seen as an issue at all, then alright. Would definitely be nice to see some sort of limitation, though. Like once or twice per reset, maybe. Similar to the existing mechanic of recommending people with the DC wand. Or... how it used to be, at least.

I have no real fear of people giving DCs to help someone level because if they wanted to they could just party with them and nuke zones and power level them anyway and it not cost any DCs.

I suppose that's a fair point. Though, even so, I'd definitely prefer to see the number of DCs given out to be limited as mentioned. It would honestly help the matters. Or at least be limited to something like... 1 DC every hour or two, real time, maybe. Something like that. It's better to make DC giving feel special rather than throwing them around like candy, or whatever. Haha.

I am all for being able to give DCs and I am not concerned with it being exploited as much as some might think. I mean folks that are donating DCs, have also had to earn them at some point. As a result, I don't think folks would pass them out as freely.. It would definitely be a benefit in regard to being able to spread the DCs out through the time zones a little more easily. Depending on the time zone you are in, it may be quite rare for you to get a DC so to be able to get one from another player would be a big deal.

For example, early this morning I met a player that is fairly new to Amia and there were no DMs around. He was a true joy to RP with and definitely DC worthy imo.. Not just him either, there have been other circumstances in RP where it would be nice to pass out a DC, if only as a thank you for the -Great- scene.

Just saying if I was able, I would have probably clicked that blue wand right on top of his head! But. of course like any other player I would determine first if I could afford it... hehe

// Edited to add: I just wanted to point out that if DCs were still able to be tracked, like they are now where you can see which DM has given them to you. That system if it was able to still track where the DCs came from. it would reveal exploits, wouldn't it?

Last edited by Krin on Wed, Mar 16 2016, 2:08 AM, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think people exploiting a system like that would be as much of a problem as some people are thinking. The ones that have a huge hoard of DCs are typically involved in RP that requires a lot of DM attention anyway. That makes them and the players around them more likely to get DCs the old fashioned way.

A system like this would do much more to help the players of characters that are usually overlooked by DMs.

Krin wrote:

I don't think people exploiting a system like that would be as much of a problem as some people are thinking. The ones that have a huge horde of DCs are typically involved in RP that requires a lot of DM attention anyway. That makes them and the players around them more likely to get DCs the old fashioned way.

A system like this would do much more to help the players of characters that are usually overlooked by DMs.

I concur with Krin. I've spoken with many players OOCly who've played the same character, rather religiously, over the course of 6 months to a year and have had little to no DCs compared to others. But also as Krin said, most of the individuals who have a Hoard of DCs play around a plot that they get them from. I remember when I was with Ruathym crew, on Nicholas Frost, I got a good bit of DCs through the events we had.

LibrisMortis_666 wrote:

I concur with Krin. I've spoken with many players OOCly who've played the same character, rather religiously, over the course of 6 months to a year and have had little to no DCs compared to others. But also as Krin said, most of the individuals who have a Hoard of DCs play around a plot that they get them from. I remember when I was with Ruathym crew, on Nicholas Frost, I got a good bit of DCs through the events we had.

I've not been around for too long, but almost all the DCs I've gotten were from events.
It'd be nice if there was a system that rewarded DCs for good RP without DM intervention.
Especially when most the events are during US hours which often makes it rather ...
draining, to attend because it means staying up until very late.

DCs have actually gotten more frequent with Zoltan and Maverick up there.

How do you propose to account for the spies/etc and still have a system to give DCs without DMs around, Lilja?

Allowing for PC's to share/gift DC's in an area like DM's can, instead of particular player targets?

Estara wrote:

How do you propose to account for the spies/etc and still have a system to give DCs without DMs around, Lilja?

Personally, I would stand by the thing I mentioned in the other thread.

"The people they report to could always DC them for the ones they are theoretically missing out on by being good at eavesdropping."

Yes, this means that until a sneaking-type-spy actually debriefs to their superiors or sells the information to a buyer, they aren't going to get a DC because - if they are good at their job - no one is going to even detect them while they're in the act. But if they are going to use that information in any way, they will eventually interact with other players, and hopefully those other players can then go "oh hell yeah, now I can move on with THE PLAN. Here, have a DC since you probably sitting somewhere silently to gather all that in the first place."

I think people who appreciate sneaks and spies - and especially those who have or currently do play those, themselves - will be more aware of the full context and more likely to remember to DC them for it.

I honestly don't think that DCing a sneak-type-spy in the moment is very important, in terms of the 'fairness' of DC distribution, just that they do have the potential to get one like everyone else eventually.

I don't think anyone is saying that DMs should stop giving out DCs, Estara. So if spies/sneaks are getting DCs from DMs right now, they'll keep getting those DCs. If they're not, hopefully the people playing the characters they're spying for will appreciate the RP and toss a spare DC their way.

There are a lot of characters that go by under the radar on the server because they don't often take part in the kind of RP that attracts a lot of DM attention. They're the 'every day' characters. They're the ones that make the server and the setting feel alive when there isn't a mega-plot going on for the 'All Stars' to drag the adventurer plebs into. I really don't see any down sides to allowing other players to gift DCs to each other. If I've earned a DC for RP, I must surely know what 'good' RP is. So why not allow me to give that same DC to another player that I think deserves it more than me?

We risk getting lost in the weeds again if we talk about how the past and present 'All Stars' with DC stockpiles can exploit it. The reality is that most players on this server don't get enough DCs to exploit a system like this and the ones that do are usually going to have a lot of DM attention and DCs anyway. I know of great, active roleplayers who get 1 or 2 DCs every 5-6 months because their character isn't the type that would rush to a DM event or get involved in city factions.

Allowing us to show players like that our appreciation will not only encourage them to continue to contribute to the server, it will foster a real sense of 'community' that the server has been slowly losing over the years.

Something that I've found that works as a spy/sneak is to send a message directly in the DM chat when I'm recommending a player for a DC. I know I can't use my wand, because I'm hiding. But if there's a DM online, I can still get the message across. And if I'm clever, I can maybe even pique his interest for RP more than simply: "Ilasmirene Telynna recommended ______ for his Roleplay!"

But not every spy moment is quality rp, heh. My ranger has stalked some people into their homes, hoping to learn more of juicyjuicy plots and been trapped behind snugglefests for a couple of hours, haha. Usually, the quality of a spy isn't in the actual infiltration and listening as much as it's in her ability to draw quality/vital conclusions based on the snippits of information she acquires.

~~~~

But here's what I think about sharing DC's: Personally, I think that the ability to pay completely for requests covers almost every bit of what this would try to accomplish. The only function that DC's have outside of requests are for levels and cash-- but the largest thing is levels. If there was a timer that allowed the character to give and receive a maximum of 1 DC to/from another player per 24 hours, and 3 DC's maximum from all players per 24 hours, that would eliminate any single player with a hoard of DC's being able to immediately level up a friend, and from being able to give DC's to other friends to then give to the lower leveled player-- if that's what people are uncomfortable with.

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