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[ 45 posts ] |
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treasured memories
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 Posted: Sun, Jul 03 2016, 17:44 PM |
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Joined: 09 Nov 2015
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Can multiclass penalty be removed? Don't see too much point for it, other than annoyance.
_________________
so he would always have a friend
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Jul 03 2016, 18:07 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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+1000
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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That Guy
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Posted: Sun, Jul 03 2016, 18:08 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 04 2016, 5:41 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I'm not sure how easy this is to do, but it should definitely be done. Favored Class as a mechanic is a woefully outdated thing that attempts to preserve some sort of identity along race/class lines but ulitmately fails at doing the job any better than just the stats for the race do, and instead looks at punishing people that don't perfectly level their classes in such a way to avoid it.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Mon, Jul 04 2016, 9:00 AM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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That Guy wrote: That is probably hard coded in and hardcoding is salty and difficult _________________  Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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That Guy
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Posted: Mon, Jul 04 2016, 13:48 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Blue Moon
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 22:12 PM |
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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Won't this just make everyone take 1 level of rogue and skilldump as they're powerleveling, then just request a class change after?
_________________ Playing Jovianne UndonDevout of The Healer " [SocksOnFeet] Arabella Amakiir: [Talk] That girl got buns, hon. " 
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Suhjet
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 22:20 PM |
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Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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Blue Moon wrote: Won't this just make everyone take 1 level of rogue and skilldump as they're powerleveling, then just request a class change after? No.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 22:42 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Yeah that would end up being a really bad idea. Plus, the DMs would notice and tell them no, or many them self rebuild so they ended up just wasting their time.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 22:50 PM |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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Suhjet wrote: Blue Moon wrote: Won't this just make everyone take 1 level of rogue and skilldump as they're powerleveling, then just request a class change after? No. Yeah that really assumes people don't level the build they actually want instead and waste dcs on it later too. That'd be lame and a waste of DCs they already had to earn _________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
Last edited by bobofwestoregonusa on Tue, Jul 05 2016, 22:51 PM, edited 1 time in total.
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 22:50 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Blue Moon wrote: Won't this just make everyone take 1 level of rogue and skilldump as they're powerleveling, then just request a class change after? What would this accomplish? _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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treasured memories
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 23:02 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Nov 2015
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Commie wrote: Blue Moon wrote: Won't this just make everyone take 1 level of rogue and skilldump as they're powerleveling, then just request a class change after? What would this accomplish? Nothing I can really see, either. Maybe some UMD for FW scrolls? But then requesting a change is a lot of work. Least, in my opinion. And would cost DCs and/or releveling anyway? I think.
_________________
so he would always have a friend
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, Jul 05 2016, 23:33 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Yeah. Just level to 10 and eat 30 dc's like everyone else I say.
Because seriously, staring down 29 levels with an xp penalty is awful. I did it on Flower. Never again. It's so god damned slow!
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 0:28 AM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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It's not as slow as you make it sound. You lose maybe 10 xp a kill? That's not a lot. If you have two penalties, though, that's more painful.
But yeah, it's annoying and should probably go.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Commie
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 0:57 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Naivatkal wrote: It's not as slow as you make it sound. You lose maybe 10 xp a kill? That's not a lot. If you have two penalties, though, that's more painful.
But yeah, it's annoying and should probably go. 20% is a lot more then 10 a kill. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 2:54 AM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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20% of 35 (appropriate for your level) is -7 so you get 29 XP.
Obviously it depends on what you are killing, but you have to use a baseline instead of maximum numbers. Besides, 80 per kill only drops by 16. That's still paltry.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Commie
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 4:00 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Naivatkal wrote: 20% of 35 (appropriate for your level) is -7 so you get 29 XP.
Obviously it depends on what you are killing, but you have to use a baseline instead of maximum numbers. Besides, 80 per kill only drops by 16. That's still paltry. It adds up to a lot of extra packs and runs for no reason whatsoever. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 4:06 AM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Not that many. In practice, as I've leveled a drow, it didn't take much longer than leveling any other non penalty character. You're making it sound far worse than it is.
Mind, I'm still saying remove it. Just let's not exaggerate.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Commie
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 4:34 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Naivatkal wrote: Not that many. In practice, as I've leveled a drow, it didn't take much longer than leveling any other non penalty character. You're making it sound far worse than it is.
Mind, I'm still saying remove it. Just let's not exaggerate. it's 20% more leveling, so it took you 20% longer. when leveling to 30 takes tens of hours, it's a lot of extra hours. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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treasured memories
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 4:37 AM |
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Joined: 09 Nov 2015
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The way I see it, it's a penalty for nothing. Annoying.
_________________
so he would always have a friend
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Commie
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 4:38 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Same here.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 12:39 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Again, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. The additional time is not as bad as you make it out to be. When you hit 40%, it definitely is. Saying 'oh it takes 20% more time' is not an argument. I know you are going to just continue spouting that, so that's about all I have to say on the matter based on my personal experience with several characters (ie comparatively between several multiclass penalty characters and several non-penalty characters).
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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That Guy
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 14:14 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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As one who has had no penalty, 20% penalty, and sadly... the 40% penalty, I can say, it is noticeable. That said, the 20% isn't horrible, but it is definitely slower to level.
Here's the thing... if you can manage to ALWAYS be getting 50-70 xp, then 20% off isn't so bad, you're still getting 40-56 per kill. Obviously, you're still gonna have to kill 20% more critters before getting the same xp as one without the penalty.
However, that's not realistic, nor always possible to get that high of xp ALL THE TIME. And, there's a lovely crappy thing Bioware does for this, they always round down. So... let's say you'd normally get 16 xp per kill. 20% of that is 3.2. So... you get 12. Yeah, that's 25%, not 20%. Then, to make matters worse, it does the 20% calculation twice for the double penalty. For example, that 16 xp. It's 3.2 and 3.2. So you'd expect it to take off 7 (3.2+3.2=6.4, round up to 7), but nooooo.... it's 8. Guess what folks, that's not 40% anymore, it's 50%.
Is it still possible to level a char with penalty in a reasonable time? Sure. It's it an extra pain in the ass? Definitely. To say it's not a big deal is a bit... flippant. To say it makes it impossible or too slow to be worthwhile would be just as wrong. It's a penalty, it slows progression, but at least 20%. That is significant, but it's not the end of the world.
Oh, do I want to see XP penalty go away? Damn skippy I do.
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Kudark
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 16:42 PM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Is... there a time frame on leveling? What's the hurry? So what if it takes slightly longer, this is a role-play server, there's no prize for getting to max level first.
_________________ 
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Commie
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 16:46 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Kudark wrote: Is... there a time frame on leveling? What's the hurry? So what if it takes slightly longer, this is a role-play server, there's no prize for getting to max level first. sorry this is a game where pvp matters, pvp decides plot lines, and gear and not rolling 1's decides pvp. levels do matter. some people fight at the drop of a hat, and if you fail to build and equip properly, they will do absurd things like murder you for a social sleight. that's the reality. don't hate the player hate the game. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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That Guy
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 16:52 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Kudark wrote: Is... there a time frame on leveling? What's the hurry? So what if it takes slightly longer, this is a role-play server, there's no prize for getting to max level first. While you're right, and there is no prize or timeframe... unnecessary impediments to levelling should be removed if possible. Wasting time is still wasted time.
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Kudark
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 17:12 PM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Commie wrote: Kudark wrote: Is... there a time frame on leveling? What's the hurry? So what if it takes slightly longer, this is a role-play server, there's no prize for getting to max level first. sorry this is a game where pvp matters, pvp decides plot lines, and gear and not rolling 1's decides pvp. levels do matter. some people fight at the drop of a hat, and if you fail to build and equip properly, they will do absurd things like murder you for a social sleight. that's the reality. don't hate the player hate the game. This is also not an arena, or PvP server, and even though PvP is a part of 'life', it is not the mainstay of what Amia is about. Levels do not matter, only if PvP, and winning, is what you are concerned about. Yes, I know this is a game, and games are intended to be won, and it's nice if your character wins a PvP fight, but it's not the end of the world, and you do not 'lose' the game if your character falls in combat. The goal is not to reach max level, or how fast you get to max, but to have fun while in-game, that is where you win. I am so tired of seeing characters run back and forth in their hurried quest to level, and say not a damned thing until they reach 30, then all of a sudden they are in your face, because now they are a challenge. It took nearly a year and a half for Crow to reach max level, it was great fun, and still is. Slow down, and enjoy the view. _________________
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 17:27 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Commie. Seriously. This server does not revolve around PvP. I have been involved in PvP less than a dozen times and I have been here since 2010. Yet, I have been involved in a lot of IC things on this server and influenced my fair share of events.
Stop generalizing and blowing things out of proportion.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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That Guy
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 17:28 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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All of this is part and parcel of a game, and a warrior type adventuring game at that. While I can see both sides here, I still don't see any reason to prolong leveling with a penalty. Regardless of your aims of dungeoning or roleplay, adding an artificial obstacle is just that. An obstacle there for no really good reason. I've yet to see anyone roleplay out slower progression due to choosing classes against their race's preferred class. It's just not necessary.
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treasured memories
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 19:05 PM |
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Joined: 09 Nov 2015
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Naivatkal wrote: Commie. Seriously. This server does not revolve around PvP. I have been involved in PvP less than a dozen times and I have been here since 2010. Yet, I have been involved in a lot of IC things on this server and influenced my fair share of events.
Stop generalizing and blowing things out of proportion. Your experience isn't his. Some people's goals don't require pvp. And, I kinda see where you and Kudark are going. Don't be a pvp whore, right? But if you wanna get anything done that goes against the grain, pvp is involved. And it's a HUGE matter to win that pvp, for various reasons. Especially for less established evil, who's trying to shake things up. But, I'm derailing too far. You're saying, it's not so bad. 20% isn't a big deal. What's the rush to 30 for? Yeah, you're right. It's not a big deal. But there's not a real reason for it to be there. I can't think of one. And to toss it, is simply a little convenient. That's all.
_________________
so he would always have a friend
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 19:14 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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I'm not saying any of those things, Kudark is. I'm simply reminding that 20% isn't the huge difference Commie is purporting it be. That doesn't change the fact that I'd like to see it gone, because it really is nonsensical. I never insinuated 'don't be a PvP whore', he was making it sound like PvP is a huge deciding factor in things and I was refuting that.
I can be for the change and not agree with the way things are being exaggerated. I've rushed to 30 on characters and I've taken my time. I've done it with and without the penalty and haven't noticed a difference so much that it was as bad as anyone has made it seem. That's what I am saying.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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Kudark
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 19:23 PM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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Naivatkal wrote: I never insinuated 'don't be a PvP whore', he was making it sound like PvP is a huge deciding factor in things and I was refuting that.. This. _________________
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Commie
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 19:25 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Kudark wrote: Commie wrote: Kudark wrote: Is... there a time frame on leveling? What's the hurry? So what if it takes slightly longer, this is a role-play server, there's no prize for getting to max level first. sorry this is a game where pvp matters, pvp decides plot lines, and gear and not rolling 1's decides pvp. levels do matter. some people fight at the drop of a hat, and if you fail to build and equip properly, they will do absurd things like murder you for a social sleight. that's the reality. don't hate the player hate the game. This is also not an arena, or PvP server, and even though PvP is a part of 'life', it is not the mainstay of what Amia is about. Levels do not matter, only if PvP, and winning, is what you are concerned about. Yes, I know this is a game, and games are intended to be won, and it's nice if your character wins a PvP fight, but it's not the end of the world, and you do not 'lose' the game if your character falls in combat. The goal is not to reach max level, or how fast you get to max, but to have fun while in-game, that is where you win. I am so tired of seeing characters run back and forth in their hurried quest to level, and say not a damned thing until they reach 30, then all of a sudden they are in your face, because now they are a challenge. It took nearly a year and a half for Crow to reach max level, it was great fun, and still is. Slow down, and enjoy the view. You're actually wrong here. People fight over things, ideas, items, agendas... revenge. When you lose those fights you're wrong, when you win you are right. The reason some players never get involved in fights is because they are so benign "good" pc's don't bother getting them involved and "evil" pc's don't even consider their existence noteworthy. Doing things other then sitting in the dale or the Grove or on a road will bring you into conflict with people or originations and sometimes things will come to blows. But if you don't do anything, if you're the kind of player that puts up purple text saying "I dont want this rp right now" and then log off because a fight was going to happen, yeah. Nothing will happen. But if you play active characters with strong convictions and aspersions higher then just playing house... You're going to get in pvp. Where levels matter. And if you lose you had better make sure the fight had some weight. Not just get rezzed and act normal an hour later. Because when you do thst you're so low on the totem pole people won't even bother getting in an argument with you. _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 20:16 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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Commie wrote: But if you don't do anything, if you're the kind of player that puts up purple text saying "I dont want this rp right now" and then log off because a fight was going to happen, yeah. Nothing will happen.
But if you play active characters with strong convictions and aspersions higher then just playing house...
You're going to get in pvp. Where levels matter. You do a really good job of painting with a broad brush, and that's not a compliment. Though that seems to, sadly, be your method of operating. Suffice to say I, and others, have actually played characters with strong convictions who don't 'just play house' and yet, surprisingly, hardly PvP. You have it stuck in your head that the things go hand in hand when, in reality, they don't. I've been in IC arguments, where things are clearly volatile under the surface (drow RP, for one) and no one resorted to PvP. Because the story is what mattered (and there was a touch of it being a bad idea IC, but still). Conflict and PvP do not go hand in hand, and so using that as an argument is rather pointless.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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#StraightOutaAvernus
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 21:17 PM |
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Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Location: WHY SHOULD I TELL YOU WHERE WHEN YOU'RE ABOUT TO DIE?! NGAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
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Whew. Long discussion for something that seems to be pretty universally okay anyway.
Imma answer this the way I answer everything that increases leveling speed -- folk that wanted the levels're getting them anyway, and it'll make it more easy for the folk that don't to enjoy the game 'as it comes'.
Plus, gotta agree with Tormak -- the defined 'race role' thing wasn't happening anyway.
_________________ Playing: Tanar'i Shit Disturbers
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Kudark
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 21:44 PM |
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Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Location: The Dark Side of the Moon
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No Commie, I'm not wrong. You are taking what I say out of context, as usual.
I'm done here, Nav is doing a fine job of exposing you, I said my piece.
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treasured memories
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Posted: Wed, Jul 06 2016, 22:36 PM |
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Joined: 09 Nov 2015
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Naivatkal wrote: Conflict and PvP do not go hand in hand, and so using that as an argument is rather pointless. I think it depends on the type of player you are, what you want to accomplish, and how you go about doing so. There's no black and white answer. You think it doesn't go hand in hand, and it hasn't for you! But I'm more in line with Commie's thinking because that's been my experience here. Just as a kinda guess as to why a lot of people think pvp might not matter as much, in the way of plot outcomes, is because there hasn't been too much lasting player driven conflict. Evil usually fizzles out, one way or another. But again! Just a guess. And way off the topic. But I think that topic's mostly concluded anyway?
_________________
so he would always have a friend
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Thu, Jul 07 2016, 3:53 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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We're looking into this btw.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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That Guy
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Posted: Thu, Jul 07 2016, 13:35 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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TormakSaber wrote: We're looking into this btw. Fantastic! Thank you!
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Thu, Jul 07 2016, 21:45 PM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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Kudark wrote: Is... there a time frame on leveling? What's the hurry? So what if it takes slightly longer, this is a role-play server, there's no prize for getting to max level first. This.
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Darkblade
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Posted: Sat, Jul 09 2016, 6:26 AM |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Location: Belgium
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TormakSaber wrote: We're looking into this btw. +1
_________________
Plays:
Ragnar Ungorn
Hasam Alrab
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GreatPigeon
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Posted: Sat, Jul 09 2016, 14:57 PM |
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Tester
Joined: 04 May 2009
Location: London, UK
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This is pretty much resolved then until there is a DM answer, no?
_________________ The Peacock wrote: [GreatPigeon] is better than me. Uncle-Opustus wrote: Just before I fall asleep, I like to pretend it's just a public feat so Pigeon can succeed in politics and save the world from poverty... with his unicorn and shining armour and Excalibur.
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bobofwestoregonusa
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Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2016, 18:29 PM |
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Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Location: Eastern Washington
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As a side note: from far away the title of this thread looked like "remove mustache quality". MFW_________________ Gerald EdmundDiscord: Metal Viking Guy #5433 DC taxation is theft!
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Terra_777
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Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2016, 18:30 PM |
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Administrative Developer
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Location: Sweden
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We are distributing XP from the on_death event on the monsters afaik. Removing the multiclass penalty shouldnt be too hard
_________________
Fear is not evil… It tells you what your weakness is. And once you know your weakness, you can become stronger as well as kinder. - Gildarts Clive, Fairy Tail, Hiro Mashima.
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Commie
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Posted: Sun, Jul 10 2016, 19:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Awesome!
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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