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[ 29 posts ] |
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EdwardVB
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 Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:22 AM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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Hey currently the STR bonus to damage is only multiplied by 1.5x if you're using a two handed weapon. I think it should be changed so that if you have no shield and are using a single handed weapon that the weapon should receive the bonus to AB instead of DMG. For example a human with a longsword, no offhand and 30 STR/DEXfinesse (10 modifier) would receive 15 AB instead of 10. Right now shields are pretty much must have on any build that doesn't use dex/wis with monk incorporated, or with a character that utilizes two weapon fighting or a ranged two hander. I think there should be some bonus to fighting with just a one handed weapon and no offhand besides the slight damage boost mentioned above. When you think about it realistically a shield does slow you down and make it difficult to angle your weapon compared to not having one, regardless of how strong you are it is still a thing that is blocking your own path as well as the enemy's. Alternatively I suggest incorporating an AB penalty to equipping a shield depending on its size.
If you're going to sacrifice defense and damage, you should get precision.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:25 AM |
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Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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This is absolutely unbalanced, and not feasible, on all levels. Sorry.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:27 AM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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Hey can you please elaborate on your thoughts?
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:42 AM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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yeah +8 free ab for having some monk levels
ill take it.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:45 AM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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Did I miss something? Can you explain what you mean?
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:49 AM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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if you're empty handed ie no shield you could make a monk who just got wis ac >= a shield and then free ab.
so splash some monk, get shield ac via wisdom and then also like whatever ab bonus you're proposing.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:49 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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EdwardVB wrote: Hey can you please elaborate on your thoughts? A dex fighter can easily still hit 57-60 AC without using a shield, so your proposed bonus would be giving them about another +7 AB, sitting them unbuffed at about 55-58 AB, depending on class layout and weapon loadout. This means doing this only widens the gulf between epic dodge dexers, who can afford to do this, and strength characters, whose only gimmick is damage, even more. An AB penalty to equipping a shield only even more intensely penalizes non dex melee builds, widening the gap still further, since dex characters don't care about the AC hit and will still use the smaller shield and still have far superior AC (as will clerics and paladins who buff so high they don't care, or mages who similarly don't) while STr characters are still forced to use tower shields, now with even less attack bonus, probably nullifying the entire benefit of taking the Weaponmaster class into high epic - this isn't even touching classes like rangers, barbarains, dwarven defenders, blackguards, bards, and etc who don't have all day 100% uptime attack bonus with their weapon of chocie and would instead be runnig "a llittle better than normal" when buffed, and woefully disadvantaged when using the shield. Dex melee is already leagues above STR and almost entirely due to the existence of Epic Dodge. Don't penalize them, and buff STR, even further.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 3:50 AM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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@Commie: Thanks. I knew the idea wasn't perfect I was just, well, throwing an idea out there. That could be easily fixed by making it a feat toggle like power attack that denies your monk AC when it's active due to your offensive stance.
@Tormak: If DEX builds are a problem then make it not work with finesse.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 4:02 AM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I think you're missing the point entirely. Getting 7 or 8 AB for not using a shield is not balanced. It obviates two handed weapons from existence, because it doesn't matter if you do 300 damage if you can't hit your target. That means doing this change also removes two handed weapons from viability, because getting that much attack bonus is vastly greater than having the slight amount more damage.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 4:04 AM |
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Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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Ok then we construct and say hey, maybe if the toggle is on it works for two handers too but you lose the 1.5x strength bonus damage while it's active and only get the normal 1x.
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TormakSaber
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 16:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Location: Somewhere
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I don't think you're reading the first line of my posts where it says this is completely unbalanced no matter who has it or how they have it. Again, you are missing the point. In a world where people go 16 levels of a class to get +2 ab, getting 7 to 8 for not using a shield is absolutely insane. Adding modifiers and restrictions doesn't make it any more balanced, it just makes it a razors edge of builds that will actually be able to enjoy it and become vastly superior, leaving the rest to rot in the dust.
_________________
Davion Telemos - Monk of the Four Winds
Korthan Isharnos - Dragon Shaman of Thunder Spirit Zamasham
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 18:23 PM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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I just want true strike to not be a requirement for PvP. People have ludicrous AC and it's so much harder to pump AB out than it is AC. Numbers I posted were just an idea, like a first draft. Doesn't have to be 1.5x STR or whatever I just think if you're using a two-hander and getting a tiny bit of damage it's almost never worth it over a shield or second weapon. The one extra mythal slot is kind of a joke because a shield + sword have 4 and 3, a two-hander just has 5 so you're dropping two potential attributes, saves, etc just by not filling that item slot.
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 19:16 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Str people can get close to 60 ab tho. Without true strike. Thats kind of their advantage, thst and dmg and carry weight.
It's not quite an even advantage but it is one.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 19:17 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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Also true strike is an easily counterable pvp gimmick, do as Lord Humongous said and just walk away.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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EdwardVB
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 20:07 PM |
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Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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Commie wrote: Str people can get close to 60 ab tho. Without true strike. Thats kind of their advantage, thst and dmg and carry weight.
It's not quite an even advantage but it is one. I guess I'm bad at building. That kind of AB is unheard of to me. Even my Arcane Archer is gonna have less than that.
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Commie
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Posted: Mon, Jul 11 2016, 20:36 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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How many great stat feats you getting? As an aa though should be able to get a few.
Normally I see 19 aa with a fighter or some full bab class and two bard (one bard at 30 for disc/tumble) and I think it's honestly the highest ab build you can get on Amia.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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robbi320
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 9:16 AM |
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Player
Joined: 04 Jan 2015
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And now: How does a non-AA manage that? (You said STR...) Because AA literally gets 10 free AB. Also, how long do you have those 60 AB? 5 rounds? A turn?
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 16:06 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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19 weapon master and max starting strength gets you almost 60, and with some basic buffs you'll get over 60 easily.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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That Guy
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 16:10 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Commie wrote: 19 weapon master and max starting strength gets you almost 60, and with some basic buffs you'll get over 60 easily. Please explain! Max starting STR 20 +7=27+12 gear=39 Let's say you can get 3 Gr STR? =42 STR 19 WM gives +4 25 BAB+ 16 STR mod +3 focuses +1 Prowess +4 WM +5 weapon =54, still 6 to go for 60. What am I missing?
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 16:43 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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apparently quite a bit.
ask some people that use the build how they roll at +60. hang around the arena and watch combat logs.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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Richard_Edmund
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 17:17 PM |
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Player
Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Location: Western Australia (+8 GMT)
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Aid, Bless, War Cry, Battletide all increase AB and are available in certain stores.
_________________
Elwyn Sabel - Laura Jarshall - Mordoc Ebonhand
Discord: Bhaalorian#5715
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That Guy
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 17:17 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Commie wrote: apparently quite a bit.
ask some people that use the build how they roll at +60. hang around the arena and watch combat logs. Thank you, most helpful.
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That Guy
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 17:20 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Richard Edmund wrote: Aid, Bless, War Cry, Battletide all increase AB and are available in certain stores. I was asking based on this: Commie wrote: 19 weapon master and max starting strength gets you almost 60, and with some basic buffs you'll get over 60 easily. Of course, with aid, bless, etc you can get there. But... according to Commie, you are almost 60 without and can -easily- get OVER 60. That has me very curious.
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Kraniumbrud
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 17:26 PM |
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Player
Joined: 08 Dec 2008
Location: Denmark
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though still... I doubt it would be "easy" to get 60 ab without being half ogre or something the 60 ab thing is something ive only seen in AA's, you would have to go through barbarian battledrums like candy.
though I will say aid and bless is easy to get a hold off as 1/day items
_________________
-Ja'acira Arrows'R'Us
-Balorin Wolfhammer- A dwarf so old he remember when the Beer stein was invented
Saisha Jai'diem Knight of bahamut, and abit of a looker
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 19:14 PM |
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Player
Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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That Guy wrote: Commie wrote: 19 weapon master and max starting strength gets you almost 60, and with some basic buffs you'll get over 60 easily. Please explain! Max starting STR 20 +7=27+12 gear=39 Let's say you can get 3 Gr STR? =42 STR 19 WM gives +4 25 BAB+ 16 STR mod +3 focuses +1 Prowess +4 WM +5 weapon =54, still 6 to go for 60. What am I missing? Aid bless battle tide _________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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That Guy
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 19:18 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Ahhh, so you did mean with buffs gets you close to 60, even though you said, "with basic buffs can get over 60 easily". Just wanted clarification on that, thanks!
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Commie
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 19:54 PM |
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Joined: 02 Dec 2015
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I mean, you can. There are a ton of ways to self buff yourself and hit over sixty.
Not to mention other tricks like being a hin planetouched for a free to hit and ac as well. I'm sure there's more. My nwn system mastery isn't on point yet. I don't exactly know what all these odd foods or insignia rings or scabbards or drums do, I just see 1d20+61 vs drax in the combat log.
_________________ ANT ALARM Count Kaldrjarn Pitt | Archmage Kilmar | Sarguk Morderer ANT ALARM MisterLich wrote: First of all, my brain is one of the best here.
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That Guy
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 20:09 PM |
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Joined: 13 Nov 2014
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Ahh, well... that could include situational modifiers too, being flanked, prone, etc all have an effect, as well as Dodge.
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Naivatkal
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Posted: Tue, Jul 12 2016, 20:23 PM |
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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You can hit 61 'easily', yes. But you are also loosing out on Epic Fort, Dev Crit, Epic Weapon Spec, and Evasion. It's not ideal at all, to be honest. Sure you hit the same AC as everyone else, but you are looking at buffs that last a short time. Aid and bless are 2 and 3 minutes (normal), Battletide is 54 seconds, War Cry is 42, Divine Favor is 1 minute. So you are looking at about 7 rounds of 61 AB, then 8 seconds of 60, then 42 seconds of 59, then about 1 min of 58... if you haven't dropped your enemy after that first 59+ AB segment then your 61 AB really doesn't matter (and trust me, when the other person is running 70 AC as a WM they will just wait for your buffs to fade and then switch off IE and the playing field is about level).
Personally I'd rather have Dev Crit for 1-fishing than a short burst of +1 AB (vs a 16 WM with the exact same buffs). I might have accidentally some numbers, but that's the breakdown of it.
PS I think you can max the 19 WM at 69 AB, but that's with a TS that lasts all of 1 round, really. Or 63 with a friendly bard using their song. Also good luck being a planetouched vs Banishment/WoF. I love outsiders.
_________________
Whomst've'll'd'mn't I play:
Salema Nefahri :: A penny for your thots
Zrae'a'stra'fryn :: That which nightmares are made of
Khasir :: From the East a storm is coming
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